People in charge (supposedly)

[Glorfindel]

Kevin's game show broadcasts in the UK, not just England. They're not the same thing.

Oops, my bad.

As someone who hates it when people call 'the Netherlands' just 'Holland' I actually should have been more aware of England =/= UK.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Glorfindel

[Sara2009]

It's not like award nominations/wins have ever meant much to RIB. Besides Chris, just look at Matt Morrison.

[Glorfindel]

It's not like award nominations/wins have ever meant much to RIB. Besides Chris, just look at Matt Morrison.

Definitely not to RIB (since a Golden Globe and 2 Emmy noms did nothing for Chris), but it might matter to Fox who are the actors' employers after all and want to keep the few viewers that are left.

 

Besides all the talk about Chris, Amber, Kevin, and well...basically all the original kids (bar Lea) who have been let go and/or were sidelined, I will never forget or forgive how blatantly Glee treated and neglected Matt Morrison on the show.

[jaytee1812]

Like Rachel or not, I always got why Lea was their leading lady. How the rest of the pack shuffled never made much sense to me, or I suspect anyone outside those in charge.

I know someone mentioned Chris doing PR for an episode he wasn't in. That's not just him. I saw a clip on YouTube of Jacob and Becca promoting the post 100 season 5 episodes. The people in charge have no shame.

[Sara2009]

Definitely not to RIB (since a Golden Globe and 2 Emmy noms did nothing for Chris), but it might matter to Fox who are the actors' employers after all and want to keep the few viewers that

are left.

Besides all the talk about Chris, Amber, Kevin, and well...basically all the original kids (bar Lea) who have been let go and/or were sidelined, I will never forget or forgive how blatantly Glee

treated and neglected Matt Morrison on the

show.

2 Golden Globe noms and an Emmy nom didn't do much for Matt either.

[dizzyizzy01]

This is not to defend the writing on this show whatsover and the show was run terribly, but the writing actually took a turn for the worse when Ryan stepped away from the show.  Ryan went from writing at least 1/3 of the scripts in S1 and S2 to only contributing maybe 3 or 4 the latter seasons.  I do think Ryan still has an incredibly short attention span and he might have lost interest in writing for Chris anyway, and I thought the idea of the newbies was really poorly executed.  I think the crux of the issue was that the creative team never really knew what this show would be about.  And it got a lot worse when they brought in a broader writing team.

[Myrna123]

This is not to defend the writing on this show whatsover and the show was run terribly, but the writing actually took a turn for the worse when Ryan stepped away from the show.  Ryan went from writing at least 1/3 of the scripts in S1 and S2 to only contributing maybe 3 or 4 the latter seasons.  I do think Ryan still has an incredibly short attention span and he might have lost interest in writing for Chris anyway, and I thought the idea of the newbies was really poorly executed.  I think the crux of the issue was that the creative team never really knew what this show would be about.  And it got a lot worse when they brought in a broader writing team.

Murphy stopped writing the episodes but not controlling what the eps would be about. There was some article--can't remember now if it was a print mag or an online publication--that described how Glee was made and there was a blurb about Murphy waltzing into the writers' room and saying, "I'm obsessed with the color orange." That was what the writers were supposed to build an episode around.

[Myrna123]

Parks and Rec is in its final season--with two episodes aired back to back every week, so it, too, is being dumped for all intents and purposes. And while this final season may not be perfect (too much happily ever after for some, too much treacly sweetness for others), the affection and appreciation the showrunners have for all of the characters, the show, and the audience just bursts off the screen and serves as a huge counterpoint to Glee where the overall vibe from the showrunners is indifference at best and contempt at worst. Bummer.

[caracas1914]

 

Parks and Rec is in its final season--with two episodes aired back to back every week, so it, too, is being dumped for all intents and purposes. And while this final season may not be perfect (too much happily ever after for some, too much treacly sweetness for others), the affection and appreciation the showrunners have for all of the characters, the show, and the audience just bursts off the screen and serves as a huge counterpoint to Glee where the overall vibe from the showrunners is indifference at best and contempt at worst.

 

 

Both "Parks and Recreation" and "Parenthood" ending after 7 and 6 years respectively, were never ratings juggernauts and struggled throughout their runs.   Yet there is a rich irony that they will both end up with far better ratings than Glee in their swansongs. 

 

Glee's showrunners contempt for their audience with shitty writing  and even plain narrative incoherence bled away the cash cow that was Glee, but all we will hear from Ryan and company is how Cory's death is the reason for Glee's demise.

it speaks volumes that Ryan and company didn't invite the main characters of Season 4 Noobs (Marley, Jake, Ryan) for a final season appearance since IMO he holds them personally  responsible for the Noob experiment failure and not his vision or writing.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caracas1914

[Casual Viewing]

I think Ryan and Brad are not a good combination (I'm leaving Ian out of this because I really doubt he has a lot of say in matters if it comes down to him vs Ryan & Brad.) R&B do come up with some interesting ideas. The problem is that there is not a writing partner who can keep them focused, take care of character continuity and who also has the power to veto them when it needs to be done or kick their butts when they get bored with their show and want a shiny new toy to play with. I bet they drove their mothers crazy (or their parents overindulged them too much.)

Edited February 11, 2015 by Casual Viewing

[caracas1914]

Here is my theory on Glee Season 6.

(Some of it parralels what Casmussie has posted)

Once the ratings started free falling, the one condition FOX threw down on RIB in Season 5 was to get rid of the Noobs and focus back on the Original cast. Period.

It was too late to return them to Lima so the 7 NY Glee episodes were spit out.

FOX realized after the fact they had acted belatedly; the ratings were past the point of no return and nothing they did would change that. So 3 things were left:

1) The old regime was replaced aka Reilly was booted out.

2) New Regime intends to continue to do business with Ryan and in that vein honors the 6 year renewal.

3) New Regime cuts their losses as much as possible, mid season replacement, shortened episode order, Friday Death slot aka Glee is " dead" to them.

Which ironically results in Ryan having complete freedom in Season 6 to do whatever the hell he wants, since ratings and network interest are both irrelevant and moot.

Other than lip service to the Original cast and keeping Jane Lynch in the loop (something NY Glee could not) he does a variation of Season 4 with everyone propping McKinley Choir room and meta shading to all. Let's not mince words, Seaon 4 Noobs were his baby and vision for the show so refocusing on the choir room is his saving face and reaffirming Glee is how he wanted it.

The Perfect Glee storm.

Edited February 25, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

Let's not mince words, Seaon 4 Noobs were his baby and vision for the show so refocusing on the choir room is his saving face and reaffirming Glee is how he wanted it.

So he shit on them on and off screen!

[camussie]

Sounds about right to me, caracas.  I said going down to one narrative where you said getting rid of the noobs but I think those went hand in hand.  After the ratings for S5 started rolling in, Fox realized Glee needed to cut costs which meant cutting cast and sets.  That meant bye bye to Lima & the newbies.  It was just too late to stop the free-fall.  

 

I would stress that, since RM & team seem to have almost free reign, I feel their main priority this season has been to mock the fans who they think turned on their "vision" or who they think have been too demanding.  Look I loathe Blaine/Kurt as much as the next person, and yes they have their crazy fans, but I think the relentless mocking of that fandom as well as other fandoms is bad form.  This season should be a "thank you" to those few fans who have stuck it out and instead a lot of it seems like a big screw you to most of us still watching.  Well except for those few who still consider RM a genius and oddly enough Brittana fans,  

 

So he shit on them on and off screen!

 

 

Because in his mind the problem was with them not his vision.  Well them and Cory's passing which is what he has scapegoated the most for the split narrative failing.  For that alone RM deserves my disdain.

Edited February 26, 2015 by camussie

[Ceeg]

Sounds about right to me.  I would stress that since RM & team seem to have almost free reign it seems their main priority this season has been mock the fans who he thinks turned on his  "vision" or who he thinks have been too demanding.  Look I loathe Blaine/Kurt as much as the next person and yes they have their crazy fans but I think the relentless mocking of that fandom  and all other fandoms is bad form.  For lack of a better word this season should be a "love letter" to those few fans who have stuck it out and instead most of it seems like a big screw you to most of them.  Well except for those few who still consider RM a genius.  

 

And weirdly, he gave Brittana shippers everything they ever asked for, after two years of shitting on them. I still can't believe that the one ship I was sure wasn't envisioned as endgame, and the one ship that Ryan actively tormented and seemed to get joy out of tormenting, is the ship that got the best storyline. It's like the Brittana shippers had to go through a trial by fire, and the ones who survived are getting everything checked off their wishlist. 

 

(I'm a Brittana shipper, so I'm not complaining. I just find the whole thing bizarre.)

Edited February 25, 2015 by Ceeg

[phoenixrising]

And weirdly, he gave Brittana shippers everything they ever asked for, after two years of shitting on them. I still can't believe that the one ship I was sure wasn't envisioned as endgame, and the one ship that Ryan actively tormented and seemed to get joy out of tormenting, is the ship that got the best storyline. It's like the Brittana shippers had to go through a trial by fire, and the ones who survived are getting everything checked off their wishlist. 

 

(I'm a Brittana shipper, so I'm not complaining. I just find the whole thing bizarre.)

I wonder if RM took more of a back seat this season, and Brad was doing more. I've heard, at least, that Brad likes Brittana and doesn't like Klaine. I think Ryan is flipped in that respect.

Regardless, this season does seem like a huge screw you to fans. A part of me is surprised that they aren't just blowing up Brittana and Klaine and having no endgame couple, just for funsies. They've always seemed kind of scared of the Klaine fandom, but it really doesn't matter anymore, so why not?

But the other thing is, especially after season 3, they pretty much ran out of ideas. They have no idea what to do with anyone, so it's either a weaker retread or so wtf ridiculous.

[camussie]

The two episodes that most mocked Kurt/Blaine fans were "The Hurt Locker" and I think Ian wrote both of those or if he didn't it is obvious he had a heavy hand in them since he has always been the most absurdist of the three as well as the voice of Sue in the writers' room.  Given that, maybe Ian in the one who doesn't like them; however, the wedding was also a mockery of Kurt/Blaine, so maybe it is all three of RIB.  It was almost like here is your damn wedding.  Now shut up.  

Edited February 26, 2015 by camussie

[heyerchick]

It didn't escape my attention that those Klainers who had expressed their utter determination to marry Kurt off to Blaine "if they had to drag him kicking and screaming up the aisle" got their dream wedding in full. Even the fucking camera angles they went with showed Kurt being cornered. The Klainers who hoped for Kurt and Blaine to actually talk through their issues and make some real relationship progress? Got screwed. But not as badly screwed as the Kurtsies, who wanted what Chris wanted - Kurt single, taking happiness, strength and self-respect from who he was and what he'd accomplished, not being defined by a relationship.

 

My hat's off to the Brittana fandom :)

Edited March 15, 2015 by heyerchick

[caracas1914]

I don't think Chris would have minded Kurt with Blaine as long as he had his own individual journey, but alas in the end Ryan had no interest in the character outside of his endgame.

 

At some point I suspect Chris figured the gig was up as far as hoping for any more development of Kurt, so while he  still tried to keep the character consistent (internally), it was an exercise in futility thinking there would be any more storylines.   Chris realized that and was pragmatic about it. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

But not as badly screwed as the Kurtsies, who wanted what Chris wanted - Kurt single, taking happiness, strength and self-respect from who he was and what he'd accomplished, not being defined by a relationship.

 

 

To be fair this also applies to Blaine fans who wanted the same thing for him.  I don't care about either character but I have seen complaints from stans of both of the individual characters about how little development both got outside of the relationship.

Edited March 15, 2015 by camussie

[Ceeg]

I felt bad for Chris at Paley, when the moderator introduced him as "the K in Klaine". One-half of a ship till the bitter end.

[caracas1914]

I realize it matters little to Blaine stans (understandably) but Kurt was a well developed character with his own journey well before Blaine came into the scene. Unlike Rachel or even a Will, Kurt was not conceived originally as part of a romantic pairing.

Literally Ryan had no use for the character in the end as an individual.

Unfair to Blaine but he was never truly developed as a character outside of Kurt.

Edited March 15, 2015 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

I felt bad for Chris at Paley, when the moderator introduced him as "the K in Klaine". One-half of a ship till the bitter end.

Me too, and the moderator did that with Darren and Heather too. I expect it from the fandom, but coming from a moderator it was very annoying. 

[heyerchick]

I actually went into S4 optimistic and disposed to enjoy the new characters. I remember enjoying Marley's mom especially. What turned me off was (1) the 50/50 New York/Lima split FOX head honcho Kevin Reilly promised at the upfronts didn't materialise, which as a fan primarily of Kurt, Rachel and Santana, left me very frustrated (2) the Noob Directions revealed themselves to be pallid copies of the original character archetypes; the only one who seemed to have any life or colour was Kitty. (3) the relentless focus on the second string talent and supporting characters. (4) the god-awful WRITING.

[Ceeg]

From the marketing thread:

 

I often think that it wouldn't matter how talented the newbies would be how great the writing would be (hypothetically!) ...people were rebelling the idea of characters graduating way back in mid s3. That's a big reason they didn't "click"

 

Yeah but the situation was made worse when they kept literally everyone on contract except Dianna (who Ryan still insisted hadn't left the show), so the bad feelings toward TPTB and the new kids just got worse and worse because we're watching this show with our faves' names flashing at the bottom, and yet, they're nowhere to be seen. Or, they get featured for 5 minutes. It was pretty much a perfect storm of terrible decisions made by TPTB. Terrible writing, 2.0 archetypes, Ryan in the media talking about "noooo no one is leaving the show lol yall cray", and then seeing all these kids literally replace characters that are still on the show.

 

"Oh, you liked Puck? Well, he's still on the show. We're just not going to show him, instead we're introducing a never-before-heard-of brother. His name is Puckerman too! He's totes a badass too! And he likes to sing! Oh you like Rachel and Kurt? Okay cool, we'll give them 5 minutes of screen time per episode. What do you mean that's not enough? You like Dianna? Yeah she's DEFINITELY still on the show, she never left! Well yeah she was only in 3 episodes, but she was still IN THEM! She's still here! Why is everyone bitching about these things?"

 

They did everything wrong and went about it in a way completely opposite of tactful, honest, and smart. Just fire them all or don't. Make a nice announcement in Variety about how it's a high school show, and you wish everyone the best of luck, but it's time to move onto the next group of kids. Don't string your audience along and promise them something they aren't going to get.

[caracas1914]

Season 4:

Jake rode a scooter.

For stretches of Season 4 Lea danced more than Heather, and Heather sang more than Lea.

Darren and Chord did more ' acting' than Chris.

Naya was gone for half the season.

What. The. Fuck.

Season 4; nuff said.

Edited March 20, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

I actually went into S4 optimistic and disposed to enjoy the new characters. I remember enjoying Marley's mom especially. What turned me off was (1) the 50/50 New York/Lima split FOX head honcho Kevin Reilly promised at the upfronts didn't materialise, which as a fan primarily of Kurt, Rachel and Santana, left me very frustrated (2) the Noob Directions revealed themselves to be pallid copies of the original character archetypes; the only one who seemed to have any life or colour was Kitty. (3) the relentless focus on the second string talent and supporting characters. (4) the god-awful WRITING

 

 

I don't think even with a 50/50 split it was ever going to work.  As I have posted before high school shows either need to to be "Friday Night Lights" or "90210."  Trying to be both is big a challenge for the best of writers and RM & team are hardly the best of writers.  Also as I have said before Glee chose the route they should have gone the second the writers de-emphasized Will's role.  After all "Friday night Lights" worked because Coach and Tammy Taylor were at the center of the narrative.  Once Will became a lead in name only, while the "kids" were given all of the focus, it was fait accompli that Glee should have gone the 90210 route.

 

By the time Fox finally gave up on its fantasies of franchising Glee and finally told RM enough it was too late.  Frankly it was too late the second they decided to split the narrative but they could have salvaged a little of Glee's dignity if they re-tooled and went down to one narrative as soon as it was obvious the split wasn't working for any of the characters. And by any I mean any.  McKinley was not working but the adventures of Rachel & Kurt in NY was not working either.  Mainly because the characters are too similar so they needed other characters to serve as a contrast which is why NY got a bit better once Santana got there.  

Edited March 20, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

McKinley was not working but the adventures of Rachel & Kurt in NY was not working either.  Mainly because the characters are too similar so they needed other characters to serve as a contrast which is why NY got a bit better once Santana got there.

 

 

From the getgo, they should have had 4-5 characters in New York, but the reality is that the producers' hearts were never in a NY narrative.   I daresay they never thought of an all NY Glee until FOX shot down a dual narrative, and it showed with how they dismantled what they had in NY, including the Funny Girl debacle.

[Ceeg]

The weird thing, though, is that there were SO many new and interesting stories they could have told in New York with Kurt, Rachel, Santana, Finn, and whoever else they wanted to keep on the show. For a writing crew as creatively bankrupt as these idiots, I don't understand why they would want to stay in the high school choir room after writing for it for 3 years. Moving to NY would have been the easiest way to explore new things with these characters, organically introduce a new one or two, and actually show them struggling with life after Glee club.

 

The fact that Ryan stubbornly held onto Lima for a year and half makes no sense to me on a both a business level and a creative one. So, the only thing that I can come up with is that he was so blinded by this false notion that HE is the one who made Glee the success it is and that his brilliant mind could find a brand new New Directions to be equally as successful as the old one.

[caracas1914]

The fact that Ryan stubbornly held onto Lima for a year and half makes no sense to me on a both a business level and a creative one. So, the only thing that I can come up with is that he was so blinded by this false notion that HE is the one who made Glee the success it is and that his brilliant mind could find a brand new New Directions to be equally as successful as the old one.

 

 

THIS.

 

Even now, while Ryan accepts all the accolades and praise for having the vision to create Glee and glow in it's initial success, it's interesting how little he actually credits the original cast ensemble for their chemistry and the unique qualities they brought to the table.

 

IMO he minimizes the original cast for the success Glee had, and maximizes the fault of 4.0 Noobs for the lack of success of the Season 4 reboot.

 

It's so uniquely Ryan.

Edited March 21, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

The weird thing, though, is that there were SO many new and interesting stories they could have told in New York with Kurt, Rachel, Santana, Finn, and whoever else they wanted to keep on the show. For a writing crew as creatively bankrupt as these idiots, I don't understand why they would want to stay in the high school choir room after writing for it for 3 years. Moving to NY would have been the easiest way to explore new things with these characters, organically introduce a new one or two, and actually show them struggling with life after Glee club.

I've always argued that there were enough stories to tell for either narrative if you had good enough writers to tell them. My preference was always for the choir room, even before the newbies were cast. But had the gone with the NY narrative, under this bunch of writers it would've sucked, but with a decent writing team there's no reason it couldn't have worked.

[knaxx]

So, the only thing that I can come up with is that he was so blinded by this false notion that HE is the one who made Glee the success it is and that his brilliant mind could find a brand new New Directions to be equally as successful as the old one.

 

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

Judging by the blatant bait and switch between promotion and actual episodes it seems clear that Fox were responsible for keeping the originals on board. Fox must have had market research and focus groups that obviously told them the originals were the way to go when promoting glee and they refused to give them up. It was most noticable in season 4 but even for the finale they showed countless shots of originals returning in the promo even though those 2 second shots were literally the only thing we got of them in the episode. You can't promote one show and then air another and expect people to be satisfied by that. Why Ryan choose to rather run the show into the ground instead of making changes is beyond me but well...

 

To be fair though, I think what really killed the show was the conflict between Fox and RIB and the inability to compromise from both sides. If they couldn't agree on which narrative to go with they should have at least given NY more characters and focus and made the split even. Otherwise, they should have just gone with either of their preferences, be it RIBs or Foxs and given that their all.

Obviously I would have preferred NY but I think even the Lima side could have gone better had it been given more independance.

The sad attempt to make the newbies click more by having originals prop them up was counterproductive because instead of connecting more with the new characters people wer just resentful that the few appearances of originals were wasted by having them be props.

Having the newbies be bland copies instead of new characters like we got in s6 was probably also an attempt of recreating the "old" glee magic but it just felt like a cheap amateur version of the real deal. But the worst plan to make the viewers connect with the new Lima generation was to give the leads to supporting characters from the old generation like Blaine, Sam, Tina and Brittany. Mileage may vary of course but neither the characters, nor the actors were able to carry the narrative the same way Rachel, Finn, Kurt or Santana were.

Long story short, a new Lima generation in general might have worked had they made a clean cut and really developed a completely new generation, independant of the old one. (For that they obviously would have had to either make better use of s3 or extend the senior year of the originals into 2 seasons to give every original a semi-satisying send off.)

 

And yes, of course having the show move to NY would have also been an easy solution. Pick the most popular bunch of the originals and put them into a new setting. Rachel and Kurt at NYADA, Santana and Puck having jobs while figuring out what they wanna do and performing in a band That band would have also been a good way to introduce new characters aside form 1-2 other NYADA students maybe. Have Quinn visit occasionally from New Haven, have Mercedes pop in for some singing/recording... It's really not that hard to imagine how that show would have looked like but NY in s4 was just as awful as Lima because they put zero effort into it.

 

Basically, anything would have been better than this half assed neither here nor there mess we got after s3 imo.

Edited March 21, 2015 by knaxx

[caracas1914]

I know that Ryan gets a lot of the flak but that interview Brad gave awhile back it was so revealing where he actually spelled out how difficult it is for him by even the 2nd or 3rd season of a recurring show to keep things fresh.

Brad basically said flat out That the anthology series format freed him from these expectations and pressures. It's that mindset that showed the fundamental problem with Glee.

[Ceeg]

Brad basically said flat out That the anthology series format freed him from these expectations and pressures. It's that mindset that showed the fundamental problem with Glee.

 

Which is why completely switching narratives to New York would have made sense for this limited-on-talent writing crew and would have kept their creative juices flowing. A new narrative, in a new city, with new problems and adventures. 

 

Ryan you so dumb.

[jaytee1812]

Which is why completely switching narratives to New York would have made sense for this limited-on-talent writing crew and would have kept their creative juices flowing. A new narrative, in a new city, with new problems and adventures. 

 

Ryan you so dumb.

Or a completely new set of kids every year.

Or y'know these people could learn their craft or work with people who do.

[Ceeg]

Or a completely new set of kids every year.

 

That would change nothing but the cast, though. Small-town high school in Lima Ohio, high school kids going to show choir competitions, high school drama ad nauseum. Been there, done that. Changing the setting and moving with the same cast means facing new problems that high school kids would never face and meeting people and having opportunities that high school kids would never experience. It means growing, rather than repeating what's already been done.

[caracas1914]

Or a completely new set of kids every year.

The question is WHY? On a hit TV series on an American network, it's beyond risky to change/reformat that completely when it's not necessary, in essence changing a recurring series into an anthology series. There is a reason it's not done. The advertisers certainly don't want that drastic a change, and it's a hell of alot of work for the producers/writers/etc. PLus Glee WAS a success story with the original cast.

Now RIB have this new FOX "anthology" series, SCREAM QUEENS, but it's formatted as such from the beginning. Only time will tell if it will do well (ala Cable FX's "American Horror Story".)

Edited March 21, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

I never realised that AHS was on Cable, I thought that was network TV too. I've never watched it. Actually I lie, I watched the first half of the first one and switched off.

Scream Queens sounds like it'll be campy fun. I wouldn't watch, because I don't like horror. But American Crime Story sounds actually horrifying from this team.

[heyerchick]

This was, in my opinion, the HUGE mistake Ryan Murphy made. He thought that his show was the story of 'a glee club' but to many in the audience, among the fans, it was the story of 'this glee club.' That particular group of kids.

 

There has to be a special kind of narrative bankruptcy to have the talent of Lea Michele, Chris Colfer and Naya Rivera (at the very least) in the setting of not just one of the most vibrant and diverse cities in the world, but a frigging performing arts conservatory. The culture clash between Broadway Babies and the kids from Flyover Country alone would have made for a fresh, compelling underdog narrative.

 

But no.

 

Foreverandeverandeverbitter HummelPezBerry stan.

Edited March 21, 2015 by heyerchick

[camussie]

To be fair though, I think what really killed the show was the conflict between Fox and RIB and the inability to compromise from both sides. If they couldn't agree on which narrative to go with they should have at least given NY more characters and focus and made the split even. Otherwise, they should have just gone with either of their preferences, be it RIBs or Foxs and given that their all.

 

 

I think when season 4 started Fox was fully on-board with trying a dual narrative.  After all it was both Kevin Reilly and RM talking about another tour and how this group of kids was going to re-invigorate the show.  It was also Fox who gave RM a 2 year renewal after he had already extended the school year.  That said I think Fox also was a bit more realistic that it  it may need to be closed down which is why they only gave the newbies 13 episode guarantees for S5 (contracts that were signed before Cory passed).  That tells me that they gave RM his two years and even agreed to let him keep on trying to franchise Glee but they also know a decision may have to be made to shut it down.  

[knaxx]

I think when season 4 started Fox was fully on-board with trying a dual narrative.  After all it was both Kevin Reilly and RM talking about another tour and how this group of kids was going to re-invigorate the show.  It was also Fox who gave RM a 2 year renewal after he had already extended the school year.  That said I think Fox also was a bit more realistic that it  it may need to be closed down which is why they only gave the newbies 13 episode guarantees for S5 (contracts that were signed before Cory passed).  That tells me that they gave RM his two years and even agreed to let him keep on trying to franchise Glee but they also know a decision may have to be made to shut it down. 

 

Yeah, I agree that Fox was fully on board with the dual narrative. I just think in their minds it was an actual dual narrative and not 33-40 minutes of newbies and 3-6 minutes of Hummelberry.

When that wasn't working they tried to force the writing towards NY. Obviously I have no way of knowing but I always got the feeling that RIB tried to sabotage the NY side because they wanted to prove they could successfully build another Lima group.

Uneven split, rather predictable Hummelbery storylines, no Santana even though Naya seemed ready and excited to work...

Imo the long, long negotiations before the renewal hinted at Fox finally putting their foot down and attaching some stipulations to the 2 season renewal. Getting Santana to NY, more NY time (which did increase towards the end of s4) and the eventual end of the Lima storyline in s5.

Of course they couldn't have know that RIB would not give the well liked NY crew of Santana, Rachel and Kurt more focus and round up the NY cast with the other supporting characters but instead just transfer the characters that already didn't work as leads in Lima and continue with them as leads in NY.

Cory's passing changed things as well obviously.

I don't remember exactly but I think there was a pretty noticable ratings fall after the episode that send Blam to NY. I think that is the point where most people realized that no matter what glee did, even an all NY narrative would not help at this point.

Whether RB were truly blind to the fact that Blaine, Sam and Artie would not work as leads and in fact drag Hummelberry down rather than compliment them or if that was their way of sticking it to Fox and all the people who had been asking for originals in NY from the beginning is something we will never know I'm afraid.

[caracas1914]

Whether RB were truly blind to the fact that Blaine, Sam and Artie would not work as leads and in fact drag Hummelberry down rather than compliment them or if that was their way of sticking it to Fox and all the people who had been asking for originals in NY from the beginning is something we will never know I'm afraid.

 

It's like you shut down a narrative that isn't working and you transfer the leads, BLAM. that helped drag it down. 

 

Kevin was brought along as a regular out of loyalty, I suppose, though he was so relegated to minor supporting in the Blee/Blam/Noob shitfest that was McKinley that he really didn't factor.

 

But yeah, getting rid of Naya/Santana really showed me they weren't serious about a genuine rehaul of NY Glee. 

 

In all honest, I give FOX some leeway in their ineptitude because Ryan and company were probably a bit deceptive how they "sold" their concepts.  No way do I think FOX originally envisioned Rachel/Kurt/Santana reduced to 10 or 5 percent of an episode at times.

Edited March 22, 2015 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

It's so deliciously intriguing to figure out what and who would be the beneficiary (victim?) of Murphy's attention from one moment to the next. I'm still flummoxed at how Blaine went from more or less #2 in the Season 5 roster as far as songs and screen time go to pretty much nothing much at all in Season 6. And yet that guy heading up Vocal Adrenaline got song after song after song.

Season 6 was one long nothing's happening with them just telling us some things that happened off screen. Was it really that daunting a task to map out 13 episodes with the core characters, most of whom only needed a little bit of focus here and there.

Seriously, how is it possible to unintentionally make a show as bad as Glee?

[caracas1914]

Even by Glee's standards this season was alarmingly bad. Embarrassing actually.

I think Ryan was off with his buzz show " American Horror Story", planning upcoming " Scream Queens" and " American Crime Story", especially once FOX wrote off Glee to a mid season replacement/Friday death slot AND a reduced episode order. There was nothing attractive , sexy or media worthy left of Glee and RIB wanted to wash their hands of it.

The writing was on the wall and Ryan didn't give a shit at that point so this is the result.

Professional pride be damned.

Edited March 22, 2015 by caracas1914

[tom87]

At least one thing Ryan may have learned was his attention span for a story arc is about is about 12 episodes give or take.

Edited March 22, 2015 by tom87

[tab19]

I'm still flummoxed at how Blaine went from more or less #2 in the Season 5 roster as far as songs and screen time go to pretty much nothing much at all in Season 6. And yet that guy heading up Vocal Adrenaline got song after song after song.

THIS is what I find so stunning.  I mean, I don't want more Blaine on my screen - EXCEPT maybe when the alternative is some random guy who isn't even famous.   I mean, if they had Adam Lambert heading up Vocal Adrenaline, I could see it, but otherwise - that decision is so incredibly baffling.  And so incredibly unnecessary!  If you need songs, have them sung by some of the people your audience actually cares about!  Everyone except that guy's mom would have preferred literally ANYONE on the show (okay, maybe not Myron or Becky) have some of his songs.  WHAT was that about?

[fakeempress]

At least one thing Ryan may have learned was his attention span for a sorry arc is about is about 12 episodes give or take.

If anyone here follows AHS -- I'm curious if Ryan's been able to sustain it in this format better than Glee? I checked it out when it premiered but decided by the 5th episode that it wasn't for me. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

If anyone here follows AHS -- I'm curious if Ryan's been able to sustain it in this format better than Glee? I checked it out when it premiered but decided by the 5th episode that it wasn't for me. 

 

It can still suffer from ADHD but I think since it has a expiration date it just comes off  better.  You know you get a clean slate sooner than later.

 

RIB needs to focus on editing themselves more.

 

To paraphrase Coco Chanel, "Before you leave the writers room, look at the plots and take one thing off.”

Edited March 22, 2015 by tom87

[fakeempress]

I rewatched random videos on UT and the Paley 2010 video came up where Ryan said he didn't want to do too much music tributes, just do 1-2 tribute episodes a year. I had forgotten this! I wish there was a pinned post here with a neat & tidy list of everything Ryan said and then turned around and did exactly the opposite -- for science as the kids say. 

[caracas1914]

For the life of me I still can't figure out why FoX gave Glee a two year renewal guarantee after Season 4.

[natyxg]

If anyone here follows AHS -- I'm curious if Ryan's been able to sustain it in this format better than Glee? I checked it out when it premiered but decided by the 5th episode that it wasn't for me. 

 

In my opinion, NO.

 

Season one was great, I loved it. Season two was okay too. Then Season Three (Coven) came along and it was a mess. A million characters (it was like everyone who wanted to guest star he gave a role), messy storylines, a million pointless things added when he should have been wrapping things up, things that made no sense or were completely pointless... it pissed me off so much because the theme was witches and it was almost an all female cast, so that should have been my favorite season, but it was the opposite. I actually dropped that show after that because it pissed me off so much. That is one good thing about anthology shows: you can drop them between seasons and not lose anything.