The Bullpen

[Droogie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hotch's team was Gideon's initially. There were on the same team.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Droogie

[smoker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hotch's team was Gideon's initially. There were on the same team.

No, Hotch was building his own team. Gideon's team was murdered, and they transfered Gideon under Hotch's supervision.

And Gideon loved making calls and let Hotch being responsible when something went south :(

Edited April 14, 2016 by smoker

[Droogie]

Ah. I clearly need to rewatch S 1. No hardship, really.

[zannej]

I loved the bit in season 2 when Elle was clearly stressed out and Reid was the only one who showed concern-- going back for her in the parking garage and offering to walk her to the car and then confronting her in the hotel room. I love how he asked her to talk to him and just gave her those puppy dog eyes and said "Please?" It wasn't the same sort of pushy "You have to tell me!" type thing.

I really wish they could find a way to have Elle come back for a visit and see how Reid could talk to her now that he knows what it's like to be attacked and nearly die. For that matter, I'd love to see how Hotch would talk to her now that he has an understanding of what it is like to be attacked in his own home.

[smoker]

I loved the bit in season 2 when Elle was clearly stressed out and Reid was the only one who showed concern-- going back for her in the parking garage and offering to walk her to the car and then confronting her in the hotel room. I love how he asked her to talk to him and just gave her those puppy dog eyes and said "Please?" It wasn't the same sort of pushy "You have to tell me!" type thing.

I really wish they could find a way to have Elle come back for a visit and see how Reid could talk to her now that he knows what it's like to be attacked and nearly die. For that matter, I'd love to see how Hotch would talk to her now that he has an understanding of what it is like to be attacked in his own home.

 

Amen

[SSAHotchner]

Don't get me wrong, I do think Morgan had some great moments with Reid. It's just that LDSK wasn't one of them. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I can't love this enough. I adore Elle (duh, as all of you know). For the most part she was a professional. She had a thin layer of Brooklyn-Bred Tough Girl, but beneath that veneer was her humor and strength as you mention, but also warmth, empathy and vulnerability that made her so compelling. I also loved her willingness to go to the lengths to prove she was worthy of being a part of the BAU staff. She was not genius like Reid but she had the capabilities to look things up and do her homework.

 

If ya'll will allow me a possibly broad comparison, the last time I loved a female character as much as I love Elle was Abbie Carmichael on Law & Order.

 

L & O was my crack before Criminal Minds came along, and like CM I also watch the episodes in syndication. Like Elle, Abbie could have just been a cliche, since a cop's kid from Brooklyn might have decided she had a lot in common with an unapologetically conservative meat eater from Dallas who swiped her new boss' plate of ribs and left him with the salad he'd bought for her. But the acting and the way the character dealt with others made her more than that. Of course, something happened to Elle that she couldn't get past, at least in canon, but I always watch her episodes even knowing how it ends because I usually see something new. Like that she might wear a man's watch. :-)

Edited April 15, 2016 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Bookish Jen]

To me, Elle has seemed to have an outsider status at the BAU even though she was such an integral part of it. I can't even imagine her being a part of the cool girls table that was JJ, Garcia and Prentiss with alpha Golden Girl JJ at the throne and chubby Garcia and dorky Emily as her beta girls. I always got a vibe that Elle and JJ didn't really get a long. However, I can imagine Elle getting along with Alex.

 

And despite being an integral part of the BAU, Spencer also seems to be a bit of an outsider. Just the condescending comments and eye rolls he gets from the likes of JJ and Morgan at times makes my teeth itch. And don't even get me started on how Rossi and Morgan made fun of Spencer while he was away tending to his mother, including those hand gestures. Ugh. First, Spencer spouts out a lot of information because that is a big part of his job as a profiler. He isn't doing it for funsies. Plus, when he does spout of weird facts, ideas, concepts, especially on topics he is passionate about, I feel it is his way to connect with people. I actually think it is quite charming. I know what it is like to be passionate about things whether it be books or baking, and yes, I've been known to get quite chatty when talking about these topics. I even use hand gestures.

[Bookish Jen]

have a feeling she won't be on twitter for long......

Am a horrible person because this made me giggle?

[ReidFan]

<<<<adopts innocent look. fails miserably>>>>

 

why, whatever do you mean Booky?

 

O:-)

 

I just think she'll get blasted by the folks who think she's shortshirted Hotch, the folks who thinks she's tortured Reid enough and still doesn't give him enough to do, the folks who are sick of SuperNinjaBestMomANDProfilerEverJJ and perhaps even those who are just sick and effin' tired of her butchering their favourite show.

 

and after a week or two of that (coupled, hopefully, with renewal of CM and the cancellation of Beyond Boredom) she'll go crawling back to her w(h)ine bottle and cheese and crackers.

 

<<yikes, claws retracted>>

[Bookish Jen]

<<<<adopts innocent look. fails miserably>>>>

 

why, whatever do you mean Booky?

 

O:-)

 

I just think she'll get blasted by the folks who think she's shortshirted Hotch, the folks who thinks she's tortured Reid enough and still doesn't give him enough to do, the folks who are sick of SuperNinjaBestMomANDProfilerEverJJ and perhaps even those who are just sick and effin' tired of her butchering their favourite show.

 

and after a week or two of that (coupled, hopefully, with renewal of CM and the cancellation of Beyond Boredom) she'll go crawling back to her w(h)ine bottle and cheese and crackers.

 

<<yikes, claws retracted>>

 

I'm sure many of my comments aimed Erica sound bitchy, but believe me I do not want to sound bitchy. I have a lot of respect for what the cast, writers and crew do to make an episode of CM. It's just the quality of CM in the past few seasons has been so sub-par and it hurts my feelings. I've been watching the early seasons of CM on ION and it's a completely different show. And I miss that CM so much!

 

Sure I snark on Erica by referring to her as MESSer (as do a lot of people here) but I don't do it out of spite. I really don't think she's a bad person. She's probably very nice. I just think she's in over her head and doesn't quite grasp why the early incarnations of CM mean so much to us.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[autumnmountains]

Agreed MMC

Edited April 16, 2016 by autumnmountains

[ReidFan]

<<hangs head in shame>>

but yeah, I think Erica's in over her head too.

[autumnmountains]

Okay I can see Gideon and Hotch maybe giving Reid a pass and perhaps having a little talk with him about it.But Reid has other superiors and I highly doubt they'd have been as understanding.

Haha this made my collapse in laughter on my break at work. I'm imagining Hotch (for some reason not Gideon) having to give him the appropriate behavior at work speech and ordering him not to spend so much time with Morgan and Garcia. Then my thoughts somehow turned to Hotch giving him THE talk...ick!

[JMO]

I appreciate your comments, Booky, and I'm going to encourage all of us to express our opinions about the show, and those associated with it, in a respectful way.  It's most definitely possible to put forth a criticism of the product without ridiculing the producer of it (eg 'MESSer'). And an opinion expressed respectfully, and clearly, with specific examples, goes a lot further toward change than one that clearly comes from a position of anger and disrespect.  I don't know if anyone from the show reads this board.  But, if they do, I'm sure they skim right past anything that looks like it is full of vitriol, but not substance.

 

While I am as frustrated as anyone about the direction of the show these days, I also realize that there is an audience to whom it appeals.  If the demographics are skewing younger, with only a slight decrease in total viewership, that means that more older fans have left, not-quite-fully replaced by younger fans.  It's not surprising, then, that the show would decide to tailor itself to appeal to the new demographic. It's just disappointing to me, because it offers less for me to enjoy.  That's not anyone's fault.  It's a natural evolution. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by JMO

[ReidFan]

so then....

 

Wrong:  MESSer you suck you can't write fer sh!t! Why don't you crawl back under your rock and leave !!

or

Wrong: Y rn't U wrting more 4 my bae <3 <3 <3 Reid? instd of bad guys

 

________

 

Right: I love Criminal Minds but in the last few years, I feel it's become less and less about my favourite team, and more about the unsub and the guest stars. Please restore it to its former glory before it fades off into the sunset.

[normasm]

JMO and ReidFan, yes this is spot-on, taking the high road to express our quite justified alarm and angst over the direction of the show in Erica Messer's tenure.

 

However, I think these days they really only listen to th 1z wrtng abt they bae + wanting more kaboom/sex<3<3<3

Edited April 16, 2016 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I appreciate your comments, Booky, and I'm going to encourage all of us to express our opinions about the show, and those associated with it, in a respectful way.  It's most definitely possible to put forth a criticism of the product without ridiculing the producer of it (eg 'MESSer'). And an opinion expressed respectfully, and clearly, with specific examples, goes a lot further toward change than one that clearly comes from a position of anger and disrespect.  I don't know if anyone from the show reads this board.  But, if they do, I'm sure they skim right past anything that looks like it is full of vitriol, but not substance.

 

While I am as frustrated as anyone about the direction of the show these days, I also realize that there is an audience to whom it appeals.  If the demographics are skewing younger, with only a slight decrease in total viewership, that means that more older fans have left, not-quite-fully replaced by younger fans.  It's not surprising, then, that the show would decide to tailor itself to appeal to the new demographic. It's just disappointing to me, because it offers less for me to enjoy.  That's not anyone's fault.  It's a natural evolution. 

 

To a point, I agree with JMO, that you should say X Constructive Thing and not restrict your response to "Argle Bargle, this sucks!"  OTOH, it's very frustrating when you have to qualify everything over and over and damn over again in order to make it clear that it's not actually the person your problem is with, but with the way that person is doing their job. And in some cases, not doing their job. Because it isn't just Erica, it's AJ Cook as well. We've gotten to the point now that you can't criticize JJ without people saying, "Stop blaming AJ for the way the show is going!" as if anyone is actually conflating the actress with the fictional character she plays. Thinking it might not be awesome that Cook is the only one who has gotten anything out of Messer being inept at showrunning isn't the same thing as a personal grudge, since I have never met AJ Cook and will probably never meet AJ Cook. But it isn't enough to just make that statement, you have to make it, then circle it with red pen and underline it with black magic marker so that the people at the back of the room can see it.

 

Also, I'm not convinced that the turn the show has taken is a natural progression. I've been watching the first season episodes, as I always do when the show up on the ION schedule, and according to IMDB EM has thirty-five writing credits for the show. Those credits include Natural Born Killer, Charm and Harm, Open Season, and Mosley Lane. Of course, she also wrote or helped to write JJ, 25 to Life, and It Takes A Village. I'll leave it up to ya'll if those are black marks against her or not. But the point is, there was a time when she knew what she was doing, even if she had help. I don't think it's an insult to ask WTF happened.

[JMO]

 

To a point, I agree with JMO, that you should say X Constructive Thing and not restrict your response to "Argle Bargle, this sucks!"  OTOH, it's very frustrating when you have to qualify everything over and over and damn over again in order to make it clear that it's not actually the person your problem is with, but with the way that person is doing their job. And in some cases, not doing their job. Because it isn't just Erica, it's AJ Cook as well. We've gotten to the point now that you can't criticize JJ without people saying, "Stop blaming AJ for the way the show is going!" as if anyone is actually conflating the actress with the fictional character she plays. Thinking it might not be awesome that Cook is the only one who has gotten anything out of Messer being inept at showrunning isn't the same thing as a personal grudge, since I have never met AJ Cook and will probably never meet AJ Cook. But it isn't enough to just make that statement, you have to make it, then circle it with red pen and underline it with black magic marker so that the people at the back of the room can see it.

 

Also, I'm not convinced that the turn the show has taken is a natural progression. I've been watching the first season episodes, as I always do when the show up on the ION schedule, and according to IMDB EM has thirty-five writing credits for the show. Those credits include Natural Born Killer, Charm and Harm, Open Season, and Mosley Lane. Of course, she also wrote or helped to write JJ, 25 to Life, and It Takes A Village. I'll leave it up to ya'll if those are black marks against her or not. But the point is, there was a time when she knew what she was doing, even if she had help. I don't think it's an insult to ask WTF happened.

 

The 'natural progression' I referenced was the changing nature of the fandom, and what the current fandom considers entertaining.  

 

 Eleven years ago, television was a different animal altogether.  At the outset, CM was intelligently written, and aimed at 'mature' audiences.  Very few parents would have been watching CM with their teens, never mind allowing their teens to watch it alone.  Then, things began to change. Now, there are things shown, and words spoken, on network TV, that once were only found on premium cable.  Concurrent with the evolution of programming, we had an electronics-mediated cultural revolution, followed by a social media revolution.  The 'minds' watching the show now are younger, simultaneously more sophisticated and less mature, and it has become nearly impossible for their parents to supervise either their media consumption or their social media activity.  They are young, and vocal, and saying things that are different from the things we're saying, because that's what that generation likes.  The people who run the show are getting positive feedback about what they present each week, because a significant percentage of the audience has changed.  And that's the natural progression.

 

As to the issue of being respectful, I hope you were purposely exaggerating the burden it imposes.  All it really requires is not calling names, not casting aspersions, and not assuming malintent.  I think of it as good playground behavior. 

[ReidFan]

I loved the bit in season 2 when Elle was clearly stressed out and Reid was the only one who showed concern-- going back for her in the parking garage and offering to walk her to the car and then confronting her in the hotel room. I love how he asked her to talk to him and just gave her those puppy dog eyes and said "Please?" 

which episode was this?

[ForeverAlone]

That episode is Aftermath.

[Droogie]

... you should say X Constructive Thing and not restrict your response to "Argle Bargle, this sucks!" ...

Scheiße. Now I desperately need to say "Argle Bargle" to someone about CM and have them take notice.

I have no animosity toward EM, per se. But I do blame/credit her with the changes in my show. Funny how the next-gen fans attached themselves to CM as the old guard relinquished its hold, and this, all around the time JJ became NinjaBarbie. I'm not in the least blaming AJ Cook but the whole tone of the show changed around that time.

So my dilemma is, I don't understand why they didn't chase that vanishing demographic, rather than just roll over and cow-tow to the newer, younger fans. I'd think a show would be happy to be cerebral and have thinking people clamoring for it, rather than teeny-boppers crying for more Morcia and JJ kicking ass.

I'm at least waiting until S12 is a lock, but I do wanna Tweet Erica and implore 1) please don't replace Morgan -- let's keep it to the folks we know; and 2) pleaseohplease can Reid have some happiness before the lights go out for good? We can all be grown-ups about it, but maybe if enough of us make some noise, someone somewhere might pay attention.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Droogie

[MMC]

It just seems to me a better show runner would have tried to find a way to hang on to as many of the original fans as possible.While at the same time want to appeal to the show's newer and younger fans. However I see no evidence whatsoever that MESSer even tried to do it that way. If any thing she appears to have thrown many of us long time fans under the bus in order to accomadate these so called newer fans who have little to almost no understanding at all as to what made CM must see tv for so many of us.Here is the kicker though I believe it was MESSer's plan all along to dumb down CM's fan base as much as possible.That way it was so much easier to get the fanbase to blindly except so much of the garbage her and these writers have been perpertuating upon us the last several seasons.

Edited April 17, 2016 by MMC

[ForeverAlone]

Considering Criminal Minds was a ratings powerhouse from the first season, there was no GOOD reason to change the formula, in my opinion. Because it is not like they have added viewers. Yes, viewing habits have changed, but there are still shows (with the same viewing demographic as Criminal Minds) that haven't lost AS much of their viewing audience.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Eleven years ago, television was a different animal altogether.  At the outset, CM was intelligently written, and aimed at 'mature' audiences.  Very few parents would have been watching CM with their teens, never mind allowing their teens to watch it alone.  Then, things began to change. Now, there are things shown, and words spoken, on network TV, that once were only found on premium cable.  Concurrent with the evolution of programming, we had an electronics-mediated cultural revolution, followed by a social media revolution.  The 'minds' watching the show now are younger, simultaneously more sophisticated and less mature, and it has become nearly impossible for their parents to supervise either their media consumption or their social media activity.  They are young, and vocal, and saying things that are different from the things we're saying, because that's what that generation likes.  The people who run the show are getting positive feedback about what they present each week, because a significant percentage of the audience has changed.  And that's the natural progression.

 

Off-topic, but I'll make it relevant.

 

In 2006, a year after Criminal Minds first started airing, a movie called Idiocracy came out. It was about Average Joe type played by Luke Wilson, who never took much initiative in his life or volunteered or took chances, he just kind of drifted along. To make a long story short, he ends up being frozen in time by a military doctor, and then the experiment gets shut down before he can be woken up, and his pod gets lost for several hundred years before its accidentally unearthed and he wakes up in the year 2505. By then, society is totally changed, meaning that its so dumbed down that suddenly Wilson's character is the smartest person in the entire country just by being average.

 

It's an exaggeration, of course, but there's an underlying sneakiness to the movie, because the progression you're talking about happened so gradually in it that no one really noticed until it had taken firm hold. And there are real world implications, too. People don't read as much. They've got a cell phone jammed in their ear or an Ipad in their hand. They're checking Facebook while driving. A hundred other things, because the world allegedly moves faster in the digital age, but it's also cutting attention spans in half, and that's a kind estimate.

 

As for TV in general, maybe it is different, but as ForeverAlone says, the "old school" fans abandoning ship is only survivable if more younger viewers start watching to take their place. Whether or not society as a whole is getting dumber may well be debatable, but I don't think it's necessarily the best idea ever for alleged professionals to dumb their work down in response to the new way of doing things. OMMV.

[thewhiteowl]

Idiocracy was kind of brilliant satire. Not my cuppa tea humor wise but it did have a point. I agree dumbing down the show doesn't work but I recognise that shows I think are "smart" get cancelled or dumbed down to the unwatchable point. Like "Fringe" for example. I know not really a procedural drama but it started off a smart show. If you all get a chance, Limitless is a smart show, funny and dramatic but will likely be cancelled after it's one season. CM was a smart show but now has devolved into a show that's just going for a dramatic moment. A sad (to this viewer) devolution.

[ReidFan]

Scheiße. Now I desperately need to say "Argle Bargle" to someone about CM and have them take notice.

LOL!

as a German speaking person, I just wanted to take a moment to let you know I really appreciated the morning giggle this brought!

[zannej]

As soon as I saw Erica was on Twitter, I sent her a message welcoming her and telling her she was now in the land of cyber unsubs.

She'll probably be bombarded with hateful messages-- which is sad.

[Droogie]

LOL!

as a German speaking person, I just wanted to take a moment to let you know I really appreciated the morning giggle this brought!

LOL. I learned this word from watching the Bourne Trilogy and it just sort of stuck in my brain. I figured it meant what I thought it did, but I googled it to make sure. I'm not German but for whatever reason, this has become "my word." I'm glad it made you snicker. :-)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

"Thank you. You've made a lot of women very happy."

 

"Hey, Lee."

 

*three gunshots*

 

No, now she's made a lot of women very happy.

[ReidFan]

That episode is Aftermath.

rewatched this one yesterday. And North Mammon as well......

[SSAHotchner]

"Thank you. You've made a lot of women very happy."

 

"Hey, Lee."

 

*three gunshots*

 

No, now she's made a lot of women very happy.

That certainly made me happy. I just hate that it signaled the end of Elle on Criminal Minds. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

That certainly made me happy. I just hate that it signaled the end of Elle on Criminal Minds. 

 

True, SSAHotchner. It's always bittersweet watching Elle leave, thinking that maybe she found peace somewhere and became whole again. I've even come to terms with her awful hair, and it only took a little over ten years.

[Bookish Jen]

Ah. I clearly need to rewatch S 1. No hardship, really.

Yes, the golden years!

 

True, SSAHotchner. It's always bittersweet watching Elle leave, thinking that maybe she found peace somewhere and became whole again. I've even come to terms with her awful hair, and it only took a little over ten years.

Hey, I thought Elle's hair was cute (goes and pouts in a corner). But you are right, those episodes are so bittersweet, and always make me a wee bit sad. I miss Elle so much. And like you, I hope she found peace in her life (well, according to your fan fiction, she found a fine piece of manhood).

[Bookish Jen]

As some of you know I am a total introvert and one of the reasons why I love CM is because of its notable introverted characters like Reid (duh), Hotch, Gideon and Blake. I always thought Elle had some introversion about her. Emily and JJ was seemed to be in the middle of extroversion and introversion. And even total extroverts like Morgan, Rossi and Garcia had their introverted moments. Here is a link to a list on myths about introverts that I find quite interesting in how it relates to me, other introverts I know, and the introverts of CM.

http://carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts

[normasm]

Maybe I've waxed fangirly about this before, but there is something so satisfying, so very Criminal Minds about the episode The Last Word. I love that it's the first time we see Emily, and her exchange with Hotch at both bookends is very organically handled, and tells us tons about both characters. The bookends themselves are not clunky, and don't feel "tacked-on."

 

I love that JJ is shown in her full-fledged role as liaison, dealing with the prickly people she would have to, being tough and no-nonsense, and yet interacting with Reid in an almost sweet, but definitely respectful way.

 

Hotch is passionate and animated, restless when he senses they are so close to breaking the connection between the 2 killers, depending on Reid especially, but working the case wholeheartedly (I love the scene where he and Reid visit the mother of the slain prostitute).

 

Morgan, with the interaction with the husband of the MCK's victim, with the geographical profiling with Garcia over the phone.

 

Garcia being quippy but not inappropriate, grossed out but not melodramatic.

 

Gideon is business-like even though the whole thing bugs hell out of him - the scene where they are setting up the decoy woman in the woods and he's the last one on the glen, shaking leaves all around and he looks up.... it's just so telling of how disturbing this whole scenario is.

 

And Reid - wow, how well he used to be portrayed (I mean written/portrayed, not acted/portrayed!)! He acts like the genius he is, and all the others look to him for his contributions, they don't look at him like he's a bug! He's capable and, if self-conscious and shy, he's not ashamed of his abilities, and he speaks up and gives the LEOs the info he has. The LEOs look at him with respect also, no awe, no eye-rolling.

 

This brings me to my favorite thing about the episode: the way they "present" the profile. This is the most organic presentation of the information they are gathering that I think has been on CM. They aren't all standing in a row facing/lecturing the LEOs - Reid's standing in front of the evidence boards, walking around with a cup of coffee; Morgan's sitting down amongst the cops, talking to them. Later, they're also in the conference room, talking to the main LEO. They're working with the locals to help them find the solution. 

 

Well-written and directed. This is a Debra Fisher/Erica Messing effort, IMO, one of the best.

Edited April 19, 2016 by normasm

[Old Dog]

Agreed Normasm. How different was Prentiss back then! That has always been one of my stand out episodes. I love the bit where Reid works out the messages in the newspaper. I love the end bit where they honour both sets of victims - lthey used to recognise the impact of the crimes back then but lately the victims are so often forgotten.

[autumnmountains]

Maybe I've waxed fangirly about this before, but there is something so satisfying, so very Criminal Minds about the episode The Last Word. I love that it's the first time we see Emily, and her exchange with Hotch at both bookends is very organically handled, and tells us tons about both characters. The bookends themselves are not clunky, and don't feel "tacked-on."

 

I love that JJ is shown in her full-fledged role as liaison, dealing with the prickly people she would have to, being tough and no-nonsense, and yet interacting with Reid in an almost sweet, but definitely respectful way.

 

Hotch is passionate and animated, restless when he senses they are so close to breaking the connection between the 2 killers, depending on Reid especially, but working the case wholeheartedly (I love the scene where he and Reid visit the mother of the slain prostitute).

 

Morgan, with the interaction with the husband of the MCK's victim, with the geographical profiling with Garcia over the phone.

 

Garcia being quippy but not inappropriate, grossed out but not melodramatic.

 

Gideon is business-like even though the whole thing bugs hell out of him - the scene where they are setting up the decoy woman in the woods and he's the last one on the glen, shaking leaves all around and he looks up.... it's just so telling of how disturbing this whole scenario is.

 

And Reid - wow, how well he used to be portrayed! He acts like the genius he is, and all the others look to him for his contributions, they don't look at him like he's a bug! He's capable and, if self-conscious and shy, he's not ashamed of his abilities, and he speaks up and gives the LEOs the info he has. The LEOs look at him with respect also, no awe, no eye-rolling.

 

This brings me to my favorite thing about the episode: the way they "present" the profile. This is the most organic presentation of the information they are gathering that I think has been on CM. They aren't all standing in a row facing/lecturing the LEOs - Reid's standing in front of the evidence boards, walking around with a cup of coffee; Morgan's sitting down amongst the cops, talking to them. Later, they're also in the conference room, talking to the main LEO. They're working with the locals to help them find the solution. 

 

Well-written and directed. This is a Debra Fisher/Erica Messing effort, IMO, one of the best.

I will have to definitely rematch this one tonight!

[normasm]

I just realized I made my post above in the wrong topic! Oh, well, I'll move it if anyone cares.

[Mislav]

Speaking about Elle... Eh, BookishJen has more details about that, but I've had the idea for Criminal Minds episode that has turned into a movie idea. The woman abducts and slowly tortures the man who raped her daughter. My mind immediately went to Lola Glaudini as a casting choice. She is probably too young for the role but she could be related to the victim some other way.

[Danielg342]

Lola Glaudini is 44...lots of parents are 44. Even ones with teens.

For comparison, Eminem is 44, and his daughter, Hailie, is 20.

[MMC]

I have often wonder how different things would be today had Debra stayed and Erica left. I would just bet just about anything Reid would never have gotten back burned the way he was the last several seasons.

I am still of the opinion that Simon Mirren would have been a much better show runner.Yes I realize that Garcia was suppose to be his favorite,so it is likely we'd have gotten a lot of her.Which we have been anyways.But at least with him there is a good chance she wouldn't have become the ridiculous caricature so many of us find her to be to day.

[autumnmountains]

I have often wonder how different things would be today had Debra stayed and Erica left. I would just bet just about anything Reid would never have gotten back burned the way he was the last several seasons.

I am still of the opinion that Simon Mirren would have been a much better show runner.Yes I realize that Garcia was suppose to be his favorite,so it is likely we'd have gotten a lot of her.Which we have been anyways.But at least with him there is a good chance she wouldn't have become the ridiculous caricature so many of us find her to be to day.

Amen!!!!

[Bookish Jen]

"Happy Wednesday, my nerds!"

 

 

It's probably not a good idea to invite an unsub to your Stitch 'n Bitch.

[secnarf]

The episode thread is locked, but I thought tonight's episode was actually decent, and I think it was primarily because the format wouldn't allow much focus on the unsub without the team.

[thewhiteowl]

It is open now

[Clemgo3165]

Speaking about Elle... Eh, BookishJen has more details about that, but I've had the idea for Criminal Minds episode that has turned into a movie idea. The woman abducts and slowly tortures the man who raped her daughter. My mind immediately went to Lola Glaudini as a casting choice. She is probably too young for the role but she could be related to the victim some other way.

 

Have you seen "Secret in Their Eyes" with Julia Roberts?

[Bookish Jen]

<<hangs head in shame>>

but yeah, I think Erica's in over her head too.

I've decided to no longer call Erica MESSer. It's just so rude of me. And I hate all the name calling whether it's in political punditry or Twitter wars among various celebs. I must admit, it could be due to the Nelson's Sparrow commentary Erica did with Kirsten. I thought Erica came across as rather pleasant. I'm sure she's not a horrible person. She has proved via Nelson's Sparrow and earlier scripts she helped pen that she can write compelling plots and solid characterizations.

 

Sure, Erica could be in over her head as show runner. But then again, I wonder if a lot of CM's direction is out of her hands. Perhaps, it is the suits that are making these despicable decisions regarding CM's recent direction. Why? Is it because they want to reach a certain demographic who aren't as concerned about good scripts and characterizations? Is it because recent fans are bigger fans of torture porn? Are the fans the suits are after bigger on social media? Who knows? I  just know I'm not part of a demographic that is considered "hot" by corporate overlords and advertisers, who let's face it, pay the bills and keep CM on the air.

 

That being said, writing as a skill has been greatly devalued in our society, probably a lot having to due do the rise of shitty bloggers, reality TV and even the most D-list of celebs getting book deals. So I shouldn't be surprised that CM's writing of late has sunk to low levels.

[Mislav]

Have you seen "Secret in Their Eyes" with Julia Roberts?

I haven't (yet), but the summary seems interesting. Though, in my idea, she doesn't keep him locked in for thirteen years. Just a little over a day. It would be the kind of movie that gets into the minds of all three main characters (it also include the rapist's probation officer, but that is a long story). It would raise the questions like who should get to decide what punishment is appropriate, can people change, how far can/should the revenge go, etc. Of course, the mother does get away with it in the end, but not in "it's all perfect now and nobody knows" fashion. And the rapist dies, but she doesn't kill him herself: after he and the probation officer manage to escape (in her car), she (the abductor) figures out her scheme will get uncovered sooner or later, so she calls the police and makes it appear that the rapist abducted her and his probation officer, and that SHE (the abductor) managed to escape. He gets gunned down by the police before he could get to the nearest station. Though the police later arrests the abductor, the victim's mother, having uncovered the truth, at the end of the movie (set one year later) it is implied that the jury acquitted her of all charges. That's the way it goes. Maybe not the most original idea, but I think that it is a bit unique in some ways and can offer some good things.

[MMC]

I've decided to no longer call Erica MESSer. It's just so rude of me. And I hate all the name calling whether it's in political punditry or Twitter wars among various celebs. I must admit, it could be due to the Nelson's Sparrow commentary Erica did with Kirsten. I thought Erica came across as rather pleasant. I'm sure she's not a horrible person. She has proved via Nelson's Sparrow and earlier scripts she helped pen that she can write compelling plots and solid characterizations.

 

Sure, Erica could be in over her head as show runner. But then again, I wonder if a lot of CM's direction is out of her hands. Perhaps, it is the suits that are making these despicable decisions regarding CM's recent direction. Why? Is it because they want to reach a certain demographic who aren't as concerned about good scripts and characterizations? Is it because recent fans are bigger fans of torture porn? Are the fans the suits are after bigger on social media? Who knows? I  just know I'm not part of a demographic that is considered "hot" by corporate overlords and advertisers, who let's face it, pay the bills and keep CM on the air.

 

That being said, writing as a skill has been greatly devalued in our society, probably a lot having to due do the rise of shitty bloggers, reality TV and even the most D-list of celebs getting book deals. So I shouldn't be surprised that CM's writing of late has sunk to low levels.

I am the most guilty of all.but for me there is something rather catharsis in being able to type MESSer.Nevertheless I am going to refrain from doing it as much as possible.Although I am bound to slip up on an occasion or more.

 

I absolutely believe Erica was in over her head when she first became show runner. And I believe CBS knew she was in over her head.But they didn't care.Because after the accusations of sexism against them,which came about when CBS so stupidly decided to mess with the cast and fire the girls, they wanted to put as much of a female face on CM as they possible could.And if that meant giving the job to a less qualified female over her male counterparts who probably would've been vastly more qualified to run the show than she was then so be it. However after 4 going on 5 years at the helm of the show one would think Erica would have gotten better.But sadly I see little evidence of this having taken place.

 

And yes I do see where you are coming from in regards to the suits over at CBS.They are by no means blameless in what has happened to our beloved CM. In fact despite my constant harping on EM I actually blame CBS more over what has happened to CM.The CBS people are more than likely the culprits who took our beloved show in the all too dire direction it has gone.Yes one would have thought that CBS would have looked at what a powerhouse CM was and come to the conclusion that it is best not to mess with something that is working so well.However since these are the same brilliant people who thought it was a good idea to mess with a cast that didn't need messing with,I am not the least bit surprised that they'd have thought it'd be a brilliant idea to take the show in a whole different direction.Now I do agree that EM doesn't have much choice if CBS wants something a certain way. But I also believe that a good deal of what CBS wanted for the show was what EM herself wanted.This could have also played a factor in them handing the helm of the show over to her despite what they probably knew to be her lack of experience.

Edited April 22, 2016 by MMC