S03.E06: Sir Crispin Crandall

[gazebo]

Ah poor Asher! RIP!

[Danielg342]

The Director actually did do a fairly good job hiding his money. He put it in a place even he couldn't get at it. He needed Crispin Crandal's thumb print (A guy Solomon had never heard of before) to even get at the money. Crandal lived on a flying Ark and only touched land to kidnap people.

Unless I missed something, I'm pretty sure that Red used Andras Halmi's thumbs...and The Director did not need Halmi's thumbs to get into his account.

Regardless, I'd think someone as smart as Peter Kostiopolos should have known Red would try a trick like this and would have stashed his money in several different places.

...or the Douglas Monarch Bank, which if I'm not mistaken, is still in operation.

[Miral9]

I'm glad others feel that Tom/Egghole is just co-existing on a different, better show. That's the sense I get. I don't know why he's in fight club with a dwarf emcee but watching him fight in an alley is better than Liz being onscreen. Who has the dog now that Liz is on the run?

[Danielg342]

Dog? You mean Lizzie once had a dog? Surely that can't be! I mean, the writers pay soooooooo much attention to detail that they wouldn't forget about that!

...would they?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Dog? You mean Lizzie once had a dog? Surely that can't be! I mean, the writers pay soooooooo much attention to detail that they wouldn't forget about that!

...would they?

 

Yes they would.  I'm convinced the dog is dead in Lizzie's motel room.  Lizzie probably left the TV on to keep the dog company and once the dog figured out who his owner was it lost the will to live.  Or died of starvation and neglect.  Or both.

[Danielg342]

Yes they would.  I'm convinced the dog is dead in Lizzie's motel room.  Lizzie probably left the TV on to keep the dog company and once the dog figured out who his owner was it lost the will to live.  Or died of starvation and neglect.  Or both.

 

I like to think the motel owners took pity on the poor thing and rescued it once they realized it had a crappy owner...I'd hate to think the poor animal is simply collateral in Lizzie's unrealistically chaotic life.

[morgankobi]

Yes they would.  I'm convinced the dog is dead in Lizzie's motel room.  Lizzie probably left the TV on to keep the dog company and once the dog figured out who his owner was it lost the will to live.  Or died of starvation and neglect.  Or both.

Maybe he ended up in Huell's room. (Breaking Bad joke)

[Johnny Dollar]

Why would the director of the CIA keep cash, like literal real cash money, in a safe deposit box as his golden parachute? Didn't he ever hear of secret bank accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands?

And what is it with creepy old billionaires and their obsession with cryogenics? Have they never watched cheesy spy movies from the 1970's, cause that shit never works.

Harold to Tom "You killed a guy! Are you really willing to kill another guy to free Liz?"

Tom to Harold "Dude. I'm a fucking trained assassin. It's what I do. I'm not really a school teacher. What show do you think this is anyway?"

[norask]

Regardless, I'd think someone as smart as Peter Kostiopolos should have known Red would try a trick like this and would have stashed his money in several different places.

...or the Douglas Monarch Bank, which if I'm not mistaken, is still in operation.

 

Why would the director of the CIA keep cash, like literal real cash money, in a safe deposit box as his golden parachute? Didn't he ever hear of secret bank accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands?

 

Because the Director is stupid, of course. This is what has been going on right from the beginning of the show. The writers can never come up with anything better. The bad-guy-of-the-week always turns out to be stupid so that Red can take advantage of him. Every single time. It's like Red comes around and their IQ conveniently drops. Even normal people know better than to put all their money in one place. And he is supposed to be the head of CIA's clandestine operations!!!

 

 

I'm glad others feel that Tom/Egghole is just co-existing on a different, better show. That's the sense I get.

 

I would enjoy this more if I didn't find it a bit convenient. If getting Karakrut solves Liz's problems, then why hasn't Red gone after him in the first place? With his limitless resources,  he could have gotten to him in a matter of days without possibly getting some rich moron killed. Yet Red is focused on the Director and never even spared Karakrut a moment's thought. I'll admit that I'll be bit pissed if it turned out Karakrut is really important and Red missed.

[Danielg342]

I would enjoy this more if I didn't find it a bit convenient. If getting Karakrut solves Liz's problems, then why hasn't Red gone after him in the first place? With his limitless resources, he could have gotten to him in a matter of days without possibly getting some rich moron killed. Yet Red is focused on the Director and never even spared Karakrut a moment's thought. I'll admit that I'll be bit pissed if it turned out Karakrut is really important and Red missed.

I'm going to humbly predict that Red knew that Tom was going after Karakurt all along, probably because Cooper told Red he was going to take care of it. Convenient, yes, but the writers always make Red more “aware” than he actually is.

[norask]

I'm going to humbly predict that Red knew that Tom was going after Karakurt all along, probably because Cooper told Red he was going to take care of it. Convenient, yes, but the writers always make Red more “aware” than he actually is.

Yes, that's probably how it's going to play out. But really, if Red really wanted to use Tom, why not sit together and come up with a proper plan? How could Red have predicted that the Russian's wouldn't have just killed Tom outright instead of taking him conveniently to Karakrut?

Edited November 8, 2015 by norask

[Danielg342]

The easy, show-backed answer would be, “when has Red ever done anything the easy way?”

In truth, I think it has more to do with the fact that this show- like many others in Hollywood- comes up with all these neat ideas without thinking about how they'd all make sense until it's too late.

I hate to say it, but on a better planned show Tom and Cooper would likely be gone, because- as you've shown- they're not really needed for the plot to work. Problem is, the characters are still there (perhaps because the writers feared too much of a fan backlash if they were offed) so the writers need to include them in a storyline...hence the Karakurt business.

That's just my take.

[norask]

That's just my take.

I agree whole-heartedly with your take. The writers just come up with ideas they think are cool without caring how they effect the whole plot. They can take a lesson from Person of Interest in how to set up a global conspiracy and have rival groups work competently without passing around the idiot ball.

[Danielg342]

I agree whole-heartedly with your take. The writers just come up with ideas they think are cool without caring how they effect the whole plot. They can take a lesson from Person of Interest in how to set up a global conspiracy and have rival groups work competently without passing around the idiot ball.

 

Maybe I should watch Person of Interest. I always thought the premise was a bit too far-out, but...it's not like The Blacklist has been any better so far.

[Free]

Maybe I should watch Person of Interest. I always thought the premise was a bit too far-out, but...it's not like The Blacklist has been any better so far.

 

It's definitely better imo if we're comparing these 2 series.

[norask]

Maybe I should watch Person of Interest. I always thought the premise was a bit too far-out, but...it's not like The Blacklist has been any better so far.

 

You should. Compared to The Blacklist, it is a documentary - given the recent revelations about govt. surveillance, it's not farfetched anymore, it was just ahead of the curve.The first season is cotw but from second season it is serial. There  are less than average episodes now and then but as a whole, IMHO, it is brilliant. Michael Emerson is wonderful as Finch. Finch is effortlessly the smartest person in any room and the writers don't even have to dumb everyone else down!

 

Back to our scheduled programming, even forgetting Red, why didn't Tom himself just volunteer to fight in the club? He was already pretending to be poor - why not just say that he needed some cash. Asher introduces him to the Russians and the rest happens as planned? Why kill one of their people and wait for them to take him, which was a risky proposition - how could he have predicted that they wouldn't just execute him?

Edited November 9, 2015 by norask

[Danielg342]

You have a point there, norask. Would have been easy to execute, too- “Matt”, upon being discovered by Asher Sutton as “not Mr. Wainright”, could have pleaded with Asher that he adopted the fake persona as a way of gaining access to the fight club world since he needed the extra cash. It wouldn't have changed much of the plot and the side benefit is that Asher would still be alive right now.

Of course, I'm predicting that Asher is going to be some kind of scum anyway...when it comes to Red or Tom, they've never killed anyone who “had it coming”. I just hope it's not some “Uriah and David” story where Tom's doing this to get to Gwen.

[Drusilla]

it's Dallas without the oil, the big hair and JR's bitchy putdowns.

[Free]

it's Dallas without the oil, the big hair and JR's bitchy putdowns.

 

That's sounds like Blood and Oil only it has the oil.

[norask]

Of course, I'm predicting that Asher is going to be some kind of scum anyway...when it comes to Red or Tom, they've never killed anyone who “had it coming”. I just hope it's not some “Uriah and David” story where Tom's doing this to get to Gwen.

 

Tom already has killed someone who didn't deserve it - the harbormaster. After all the time the writers spent on his murder investigation and Liz's trial, I sure am not going to forget it anytime soon. I really hope that Gwen is somehow shown to take revenge on Tom for Asher's death and doesn't actually fall for him like our Lizzie.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Do You Want To Build A Snowman?
The Blacklist does its own version of Frozen, using cryonics and a billionaire trying to build utopia.

[Drusilla]

That's sounds like Blood and Oil only it has the oil.

 

LOL! As I already watch one ridiculous tv show (this one), I am not best inclined to start on Blood and Oil :)

[Danielg342]

Tom already has killed someone who didn't deserve it - the harbormaster. After all the time the writers spent on his murder investigation and Liz's trial, I sure am not going to forget it anytime soon. I really hope that Gwen is somehow shown to take revenge on Tom for Asher's death and doesn't actually fall for him like our Lizzie.

Didn't Tom kill the Harbormaster to protect Liz and her interrogation?

Maybe it's just the fact that I've really enjoyed Tom the past few episodes and hope he's here for the long haul that I'm willing to let that go.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Didn't Tom kill the Harbormaster to protect Liz and her interrogation?

Maybe it's just the fact that I've really enjoyed Tom the past few episodes and hope he's here for the long haul that I'm willing to let that go.

 

I thought Tom killed the Harbormaster in an attempt to escape.

[Julia]

I thought Tom killed the Harbormaster in an attempt to escape.

 

Tom strangled the Harbor Master while he was still chained up on the ship. He told Lizzie it was because the Harbor Master could turn both of them in. She voluntarily let him go after Red said he needed Tom's help to get to Berlin.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Julia

[Ottis]

Lizzie is little more than background window dressing anymore.  I was kind of hoping she was the one to get shot and parked in a cryofreeze unit.

 

 

I didn't miss her at all. They are using Lizzie in just the right amount these days.

 

I didn't understand The Donut's plan. Why were they cutting into someone's skull? The bodies we saw frozen seemed intact? Was the ultimate point just to save the heads? Is there any reason to believe that works? And most importantly, how long did The Donut think the bodies/heads needed to be frozen? Longer than his lifetime, I assume, so ... did he have a succession plan - the Donut Hole?  Blacklister's tend to be fantastical, but this one was a few Krispy Kreme's short of a baker's dozen.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ottis

[norask]

Didn't Tom kill the Harbormaster to protect Liz and her interrogation?

Maybe it's just the fact that I've really enjoyed Tom the past few episodes and hope he's here for the long haul that I'm willing to let that go.

That guy still was only doing his job. The fact that Tom's response is always to go for the kill is what bothers me. He didn't let Liz handle it and in the long haul made things more difficult for her. It's like he also forged a dark connection to her that can't be broken by making her a accessory to the murder. I just can't bring myself to like this guy. And his cavalier attitude to Asher only proves that he hasn't changed.

 

I didn't miss her at all. They are using Lizzie in just the right amount these days.

 

But that's kind of messed up, isn't it? The writing for the only female lead is so bad that the viewers are relieved when she isn't on screen. All the male leads, Red, Tom and Ressler are scrambling around trying to save her while she is either napping or making Dembe tea. What happened to giving her some control of her own fate? What happened to giving her some interesting storylines of her own?

Edited November 10, 2015 by norask

[Free]

LOL! As I already watch one ridiculous tv show (this one), I am not best inclined to start on Blood and Oil :)

 

You're not missing anything, it was just bland.

[Ottis]

But that's kind of messed up, isn't it? The writing for the only female lead is so bad that the viewers are relieved when she isn't on screen. All the male leads, Red, Tom and Ressler are scrambling around trying to save her while she is either napping or making Dembe tea. What happened to giving her some control of her own fate? What happened to giving her some interesting storylines of her own?

 

 

Actually, they did do that, and it was the worst part of the show. Hence, I assume, Lizzie now taking a back seat. Some of that was writing, some of that was the actress. There are many posts about this in past episode threads. The overall effect of anything Lizzie-specific was to slow the show down to an indifferent crawl. 

[Danielg342]

That guy still was only doing his job. The fact that Tom's response is always to go for the kill is what bothers me. He didn't let Liz handle it and in the long haul made things more difficult for her. It's like he also forged a dark connection to her that can't be broken by making her a accessory to the murder. I just can't bring myself to like this guy. And his cavalier attitude to Asher only proves that he hasn't changed.

I do see your point, although, if we give Tom the benefit of the doubt, he's always been an assassin...so, while it doesn't make it any more right, Tom always “kills first and ask questions later”, so it's in his instincts.

But that's kind of messed up, isn't it? The writing for the only female lead is so bad that the viewers are relieved when she isn't on screen. All the male leads, Red, Tom and Ressler are scrambling around trying to save her while she is either napping or making Dembe tea. What happened to giving her some control of her own fate? What happened to giving her some interesting storylines of her own?

I'd say this has been Lizzie's problem all series long. Not that I think Megan Boone is providing an Emmy-worthy performance on her own, but she is hamstrung by a writing team that asks her at times to be an eager student, a petulant teen or a depraved lunatic. Boone won't admit it but she's probably confused.

I think the sadder part- going along with this show continuing Hollywood's greater inability to really write for women- is that opportunities have abounded for some strong female characters on this show and they never delivered. Can anyone really say they got to know Meera Malik or Samar Navabi? I think Mozhan Marno is a fine actress- not just because she's pretty- and she could probably easily work with James Spader as a lead. Unfortunately, Navabi has been nothing but a cipher ever since her big arrival at the start of Season 2.

[Drusilla]

I do see your point, although, if we give Tom the benefit of the doubt, he's always been an assassin...so, while it doesn't make it any more right, Tom always “kills first and ask questions later”, so it's in his instincts.

I'd say this has been Lizzie's problem all series long. Not that I think Megan Boone is providing an Emmy-worthy performance on her own, but she is hamstrung by a writing team that asks her at times to be an eager student, a petulant teen or a depraved lunatic. Boone won't admit it but she's probably confused.

I think the sadder part- going along with this show continuing Hollywood's greater inability to really write for women- is that opportunities have abounded for some strong female characters on this show and they never delivered. Can anyone really say they got to know Meera Malik or Samar Navabi? I think Mozhan Marno is a fine actress- not just because she's pretty- and she could probably easily work with James Spader as a lead. Unfortunately, Navabi has been nothing but a cipher ever since her big arrival at the start of Season 2.

 

Megan has mentioned it and has made it clear she is not board for the woman as victim as co-dependent on a psycho role. But what can she do short of quitting? 

[norask]

Can anyone really say they got to know Meera Malik or Samar Navabi? I think Mozhan Marno is a fine actress- not just because she's pretty- and she could probably easily work with James Spader as a lead. Unfortunately, Navabi has been nothing but a cipher ever since her big arrival at the start of Season 2.

 

I agree with this. Meera was a cipher too and we never saw her an a real person. It was only after death, we were told of the family she had. And so it was very easy for everyone(includin the audience) to forget her death and move on and the fact Tom had a hand in it. Same goes of Samar. The actress is charismatic and likeable but her character is still just a badass in kevlar (just like Ressler) and an object of affection for Aram.

 

Actually, they did do that, and it was the worst part of the show. Hence, I assume, Lizzie now taking a back seat. Some of that was writing, some of that was the actress. There are many posts about this in past episode threads. The overall effect of anything Lizzie-specific was to slow the show down to an indifferent crawl.

 

When was this? I'm not being flippant but genuinely curious. Her character never behaved realistically as a person or as a trained agent. She and her team was always made to look stupid just to make Red look good. Even Meryl Streep would have had trouble with this one.

 

Not that I think Megan Boone is providing an Emmy-worthy performance on her own, but she is hamstrung by a writing team that asks her at times to be an eager student, a petulant teen or a depraved lunatic. Boone won't admit it but she's probably confused.

 

 

Megan has mentioned it and has made it clear she is not board for the woman as victim as co-dependent on a psycho role. But what can she do short of quitting?

 

Can you point me to the interview? I'd be interested in reading this one. I know a lot of fans don't like her but I don't believe Megan is completely at fault. Yes, she isn't exactly the best talent ever but the writing is just incoherent at times. On top of that, she is playing a more introverted role which is always, IMHO more difficult to portray compellingly next to a flamboyant role like Red's. I kinda feel sorry for Megan. There's only so many roles for women in Hollywood - she can't really leave the show even if she wanted to.

 

I do see your point, although, if we give Tom the benefit of the doubt, he's always been an assassin...so, while it doesn't make it any more right, Tom always “kills first and ask questions later”, so it's in his instincts.

 

That's the reason I can't warm upto him. There's no growth in his character - he didn't learn anything from the harbormaster incident. I didn't even see a real reason as to why he fell in love with Liz. Right now he's one of those bad boy types who typically love the female lead on a show, do all sorts of bad stuff in the name of love for her while being a complete jerk/monster to everyone else.

Edited November 10, 2015 by norask

[Ottis]

When was this? I'm not being flippant but genuinely curious. Her character never behaved realistically as a person or as a trained agent. She and her team was always made to look stupid just to make Red look good. Even Meryl Streep would have had trouble with this one.

 

You make a valid point. I'd have to go back through the past episode threads for examples. You are right in that pretty much every other character on the show is written to look stupid so Red can be a genius, at least at one time or another. Lizzie was inconsistent from the get go, when we were introduced to her as some sort of hard ass at the academy and yet she couldn't put together the simplest facts to create a profile. Then Megan Boone's facial expressions, or lack of, and some of her acting choices, made the character even harder to decipher. Any more about this topic is probably best moved to the Lizzie thread.

 

The show's problem is that, as in this episode, even as they have minimized Lizzie, the blacklisters are becoming more outrageous and less believable, like Mr. Freeze. So what grounds the show? Spader is very good, but soon he will be combating descendants of Atlantis or some such. Let's keep his environment a bit more realistic. That, in turn, will help us care more about the characters.

[Drusilla]

 

Can you point me to the interview? I'd be interested in reading this one. I know a lot of fans don't like her but I don't believe Megan is completely at fault. Yes, she isn't exactly the best talent ever but the writing is just incoherent at times. On top of that, she is playing a more introverted role which is always, IMHO more difficult to portray compellingly next to a flamboyant role like Red's. I kinda feel sorry for Megan. There's only so many roles for women in Hollywood - she can't really leave the show even if she wanted to.

 

That's the reason I can't warm upto him. There's no growth in his character - he didn't learn anything from the harbormaster incident. I didn't even see a real reason as to why he fell in love with Liz. Right now he's one of those bad boy types who typically love the female lead on a show, do all sorts of bad stuff in the name of love for her while being a complete jerk/monster to everyone else.

 

Megan has mentioned this on Twitter several times in direct response to people's tweets to her about the abusive relationship between Liz and Tom. She does not, absolutely, does not approve. There is nothing as an actress she can do about it. I'm guessing every actress in the business feels the same way. Mozhan Marno is horribly underused, she is just a foil. I think they're trying to make Samar the voice of FBI reason but they're doing it badly. As for the Tom Keen character - he doesn't love Liz, he just thinks he does because it will benefit him in some way. He wants to "save" her because he wants to control her again, he doesn't want her to be exonerated for any altruistic reasons. If that is not the case, then again the writers have failed to show his rehabilitation from psychopath to normal person. Which, in reality, could never happen. I wonder how you get a writing gig on this show? God knows any one of us couldn't be any worse...

[norask]

The show's problem is that, as in this episode, even as they have minimized Lizzie, the blacklisters are becoming more outrageous and less believable, like Mr. Freeze. So what grounds the show? Spader is very good, but soon he will be combating descendants of Atlantis or some such. Let's keep his environment a bit more realistic. That, in turn, will help us care more about the characters.

 

Agreed. And when creating a blacklister, the writers should try not to become inspired by the bad Matthew Mcconaughey sci-fi movie. Spader is fantastic but as you said, his world becomes more and more crazy with each passing episode. He's like a comic book character stuck in a real world environment. The show just should go there and declare him a mutant whose super-power is stealing other people's intelligence. That would explain away how people become stupid around him and why Lizzie is slowly becoming a zombie as she spends all her time with him.

 

Megan has mentioned this on Twitter several times in direct response to people's tweets to her about the abusive relationship between Liz and Tom. She does not, absolutely, does not approve. There is nothing as an actress she can do about it. I'm guessing every actress in the business feels the same way

 

Yeah, what can she do. If she has let her dissatisfaction be known, then that's more than most do. Good for her. She is stuck, just like Marno who at least gets to look badass in her Kevlar and gets to have a few lines which is more than Liz got to do in 3x06. There aren't that many lead roles for women, so it's not as if she can give her job and get another one right away.

[Danielg342]

I respect how difficult it is in Hollywood for actresses in general. Unless you're willing to play “Ms. Fanservice” or “The Girlfriend” or “The Innocent Victim”, there's not a lot of roles for you to go around, and I can't see that situation improving any time soon. I suppose the good news is that we're at least aware of the problem but I can't see a solution. Hollywood executives are still businessmen at heart, and they always like sticking to “what sells”- and “what sells” has always been male-driven. Which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Perhaps Hollywood just needs a “mentality shift” and realize that many of the roles they give to men could easily be women. For starters, I don't see why Tom, Cooper, Aram, Ressler or even Red couldn't have been female characters- there's nothing about them that screams “male”, meaning that when the show started they could have easily cast women in those roles and the characters wouldn't have suffered. Even the leader of the World Government could have been a woman- sure, the Director doesn't do much but at least the role's an important one.

Of course, I also understand that female characters- and minorities in general- face far more scrutiny from pedantically idealistic bloggers (and their ilk) than white male characters get...and, knowing from my own experience, there's nothing a writer hates more than someone whining about some detail that doesn't really matter a whole lot to the story or the character. So that could be another reason why most characters tend to be male- because then audiences pay attention to the character and nothing else.

(Of course the upshot for that would be that writers should just get a spine and write to their heart's desire and not care that someone takes something vaguely unsettling and blows it out of proportion, because I'd rather have a compelling character who might at times play with stereotypes than a boring character who's sanitized because the writers are afraid they might “upset someone”)

I realize that rant is probably too long for the topic at hand, although I think it's still relevant since it appears to be informing the show's choices.

Going forward, I think it would be best if Liz had some sort of “best friend” character she sees outside of work (preferably also a female) whom she can vent to so we can at least get an insight into her own thoughts and feelings about what goes on around her, because I'm sure Red and Tom make her a neurotic mess. It might not change her status much in that she'd still be acquiescing to Red and others most of the time but at least it would remind us all that she's a human being.

I'm also thinking Reven Wright needs more to do. She should be taking an active role in investigating the Director- clearly Ressler has too much on his plate chasing Liz and Red, and Wright going after the Director at least shows there's someone within the government who isn't compromised. Lauren Hitchins could serve this role too- she did seem sympathetic to Ressler before questioning him.

There's potential the show needs to realize it.

(P.S. Perhaps we need a “general show discussion thread”- call it the “Blacksite” or something- so we can go more in depth with the general issues we have with the show)

[Danielg342]

Created a “general show thread” where we can talk about things like where we'd like the show to go and how it's handled storylines like the Harbormaster or the death of Asher Sutton. You can see it here:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/34350-the-blacksite-where-the-hunt-for-red-begins/

[Drusilla]

I respect how difficult it is in Hollywood for actresses in general. Unless you're willing to play “Ms. Fanservice” or “The Girlfriend” or “The Innocent Victim”, there's not a lot of roles for you to go around, and I can't see that situation improving any time soon. I suppose the good news is that we're at least aware of the problem but I can't see a solution. Hollywood executives are still businessmen at heart, and they always like sticking to “what sells”- and “what sells” has always been male-driven. Which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Perhaps Hollywood just needs a “mentality shift” and realize that many of the roles they give to men could easily be women. For starters, I don't see why Tom, Cooper, Aram, Ressler or even Red couldn't have been female characters- there's nothing about them that screams “male”, meaning that when the show started they could have easily cast women in those roles and the characters wouldn't have suffered. Even the leader of the World Government could have been a woman- sure, the Director doesn't do much but at least the role's an important one.

Of course, I also understand that female characters- and minorities in general- face far more scrutiny from pedantically idealistic bloggers (and their ilk) than white male characters get...and, knowing from my own experience, there's nothing a writer hates more than someone whining about some detail that doesn't really matter a whole lot to the story or the character. So that could be another reason why most characters tend to be male- because then audiences pay attention to the character and nothing else.

(Of course the upshot for that would be that writers should just get a spine and write to their heart's desire and not care that someone takes something vaguely unsettling and blows it out of proportion, because I'd rather have a compelling character who might at times play with stereotypes than a boring character who's sanitized because the writers are afraid they might “upset someone”)

I realize that rant is probably too long for the topic at hand, although I think it's still relevant since it appears to be informing the show's choices.

Going forward, I think it would be best if Liz had some sort of “best friend” character she sees outside of work (preferably also a female) whom she can vent to so we can at least get an insight into her own thoughts and feelings about what goes on around her, because I'm sure Red and Tom make her a neurotic mess. It might not change her status much in that she'd still be acquiescing to Red and others most of the time but at least it would remind us all that she's a human being.

I'm also thinking Reven Wright needs more to do. She should be taking an active role in investigating the Director- clearly Ressler has too much on his plate chasing Liz and Red, and Wright going after the Director at least shows there's someone within the government who isn't compromised. Lauren Hitchins could serve this role too- she did seem sympathetic to Ressler before questioning him.

There's potential the show needs to realize it.

(P.S. Perhaps we need a “general show discussion thread”- call it the “Blacksite” or something- so we can go more in depth with the general issues we have with the show)

 

In light of this, I saw a link from tumblr to wikileaks where a Sony email was leaked saying they wanted to kill off the Megan Boone character. If this is true, then is there any wonder that Liz has had a bum deal from the writers? Here is the tumblr link leading to the wikileaks email

[norask]

In light of this, I saw a link from tumblr to wikileaks where a Sony email was leaked saying they wanted to kill off the Megan Boone character. If this is true, then is there any wonder that Liz has had a bum deal from the writers? Here is the tumblr link leading to the wikileaks email

Oh wow! Don't know what to say! No wonder Liz is so badly written - the showrunners apparently never liked her to begin with. So why begin the series with a character like Liz in the first place? Ressler was the one who had been chasing Red for half a decade - he easily could have been the one Red wanted in place of Liz. So why cast Boone and then treat her badly? I feel bad for her. I'm not surprised though. It has been quite clear right from the beginning that the showrunners like to play favorites - they have characters they like and then there are characters they have no idea what to do with.

Edited November 12, 2015 by norask

[Drusilla]

Oh wow! Don't know what to say! No wonder Liz is so badly written - the showrunners apparently never liked her to begin with. So why begin the series with a character like Liz in the first place? Ressler was the one who had been chasing Red for half a decade - he easily could have been the one Red wanted in place of Liz. So why cast Boone and then treat her badly? I feel bad for her. I'm not surprised though. It has been quite clear right from the beginning that the showrunners like to play favorites - they have characters they like and then there are characters they have no idea what to do with.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. They may have picked a young relatively unexperienced actress, but what exactly are the writers' credentials? A check on IMDB doesn't exactly show anything even remotely oh wow never mind Emmy winning. *growl*

[norask]

I think you hit the nail on the head. They may have picked a young relatively unexperienced actress, but what exactly are the writers' credentials? A check on IMDB doesn't exactly show anything even remotely oh wow never mind Emmy winning. *growl*

I'll take it to the new thread that Daniel has so kindly created.

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/34350-the-blacksite-where-the-hunt-for-red-begins/?view=getnewpost