S11.E05: Thin Lizzie

[mertensia]

The mother's lover I think.

[DittyDotDot]

The man was her lover. Soulless Chick was pissed she neglected the kid to sleep around and killed them both.

 

 

ETA: Oops, didn't see there was another page...what mertensia said.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

The mother's lover I think.

Yes that's exactly who it was.

[SueB]

The dead pair Dean found in the basement at the end, who was the man? The female was the boy's mother, right? Thanks.

The mother's lover.  The babysitter said Dawn (the mother0 had a "special friend" and then gave man's address. It was his house where the babysitter took her axe to the pair. 

[Myrelle]

I really liked this one mainly because of Jensen Ackles' face and his facial expressions. It made me even more curious about the connection between Dean and Amara/The Darkness. I don't think she did anything physical to him-not yet anyway; or even if she did, it's not something that that he's aware of except possibly on a more subconscious level. I think Len and the babysitter were reminders/parallels to/for Dean, of how he felt when he was carrying the Mark, and this at all stages of it-before he was turned into a demon, while he was a demon, and after being returned to a human state while continuing to carry the Mark AND hold back the Darkness which likely meant touching it constantly and continuously also for all that time. I thought Jensen via those amazing facial expressions of his through-out this episode conveyed those feelings/parallels concerning his character beautifully.

IMO, the writers/showrunners on this show have contiually implied that HumanDean has at times felt as "soulless" as the monsters, demons, and other evil-doers that he has spent his entire life fighting against. It's what he was most scared of in the cabin scene in Devil's Trap. I don't think Amara did anything to Dean in the premiere except recognize this in Dean(as she did in the serial killers in this episode-Lizzie Borden and the babysitter, that is) and empathize with him and the pain that this thought has been inflicting on his psyche(especially in the post-hell seasons of Dean's life). I think Len's instinct to kill was more latent, as Dean's(and Sam's) was at the beginning of the series and when the motto of saving people, hunting things was looked at in that order as it pertained to the family business. But things have changed so much for both of them since those early days, and the burden of carrying the Mark now has Dean questioning his own soul and how much of it he still feels connected to in a human way. I think this is going to be a very psychological storyline for Dean and I think this episode really highlighted that and for that reason, more than any other, I'm giving this one high marks. I have always loved when they delve deeply into Dean's psyche. It is fascinating and completely engrossing to me because of the many facets and layers that Jensen has imbued in his character from the very beginning.

It looks like we might get some answers about Dean and the Darkness in this week's episode-hopefully-and for that reason, more than any other, I'm going to watch the episode live this week.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Dean Gets Grandma All Over Him At Lizzie Borden's Place
Don't you love that horror movie trope in which dumb kids tempt fate? Yeah.

[Proteus]

Thank you to everyone who answered my question. :)

[rue721]

- Good characters.  Len had that "Ronald Resnick" vibe - I really liked him.  And the inn-keeper made an impression for me too.

 

[...]

 

- Cas is STILL IN THE BUNKER BINGING ON NETFLIX.  I kinda love that.  Yes, I'd like to see Cas, but knowing that he's staying for as long as he wants....not rushing off again. That makes me happy.

 

[...]

 

ETA:  And Amara is totally perving on Dean.  I realize she's physically younger but ... pre-creation deity as well.  Creepy.  It's like a tween with a boy band crush.  

 

Surprisingly, I didn't like Len. He creeped me out. It wasn't the missing soul that did it, either. He just gave me a bad vibe. YMMV. On the other hand, I did like the innkeeper and her son. I was 99% sure that he was going to be the culprit, because I was like, "I've seen Psycho, I know how this kind of thing turns out!" It's actually kind of cool that that was just a red herring, though, just like Len was. I do like those little touches. Len specifically just happened to give me the willies.

 

Add me to the list of people that love that the explanation for Cas being "indisposed" is that he's bingewatching.

 

I didn't get a pervy vibe from Amara. I thought she was smirking because she's got some big plans.

 

Also, in this episode, she talked about "poor Lizzie," and then sucked out the babysitter's soul because she thought the babysitter "needed help." I get the feeling that she's drawn to people who she sees as wronged by God -- people whose souls were a burden and painful to them. I don't think that she's building an army of people like that or anything, I think that she just tends to connect with "lost souls" and feels more of a kinship with people who are lost/in pain/aggrieved at God. Her attitude seems to be "why would God create people/souls just to make them suffer?" I think she connects with human beings who also ask themselves that question.

 

I don't really understand the thing of her needing souls because she's "hungry," though. She existed before human souls did. So how could she need them for sustenance?

 

I actually liked the "toilet water" exchange between the boys. "Toilet water" is an old-fashioned term (or at least I think of it as something Grandmas used - and my Grandma was born in 1903) and the only reason I know about it is because of the types of books I read. It didn't surprise me at all that Dean didn't seem to know what it was and reacted the way he did. Plus I loved Sam all, "I wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked?" 

 

My grandma would never have used that phrase, but I know it because plenty of people on TV and in movies use it. IBR, Dean would probably have known it. But the show wanted to make that corny "toilet water?!" joke, so they made him ignorant in order to jam the joke into the scene.

 

I'm actually more irritated by how stale the joke is than by how OOC the line was for Dean. Overall, I liked this episode. Using ancient Borscht Belt jokes like that one is some hack writing, though.

 

Eh, pretty clunky writing, but wasn't the worst thing they've ever done. Still, got a great chuckle out of Dean just blurting out Len was soulless. So, it wasn't all bad.

 

My favorite thing in the episode -- Dean just blurting it out. As well as Len's non-reaction. At least he didn't react like Sam did, and worry that the soul was his enemy. :P

 

I do wish that they would spend some time figuring out where all these human souls GO, though. If Amara is consuming them, then what is her...uh...her waste like? What does she turn those human souls into as her body burns them for fuel? I assume that nobody can get these souls back, because they're being eaten. But when something is eaten, it doesn't just disappear -- it gets reconstituted, right?

Edited November 16, 2015 by rue721

[mertensia]

It's probably the energy that lets her grow. So there isn't anything left.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

• Hey, it's the kid from Stranger Things!
• I am loving the brother banter in this season so far.  I watched these eps previously (nearly live - haha, next day on Hulu) but I hadn't seen all the previous episodes and at the time, I was still in the early seasons of SPN.  So I didn't appreciate the change between the brothers until after watching the last few seasons.  
• Poor Len.  I liked him.   

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I am loving the brother banter in this season so far.  I watched these eps previously (nearly live - haha, next day on Hulu) but I hadn't seen all the previous episodes and at the time, I was still in the early seasons of SPN.  So I didn't appreciate the change between the brothers until after watching the last few seasons.  

I know, right? Now you know why I've been calling the Carver years The Era of the Petty Little Jerks? Wonder what I'll start calling the Dabb years? ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I haven't really kept up much with these things.  I know the first five seasons were mainly Kripke, right?  Then Carver?  So was there a different showrunner starting with S11?  So far the eps, and the brotherly relationship just has a very different tone than the last few seasons.  I like it!  Don't get me wrong.  It's just SO different - and maybe even more noticeable after binge watching?

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I haven't really kept up much with these things.  I know the first five seasons were mainly Kripke, right?  Then Carver?  So was there a different showrunner starting with S11?  So far the eps, and the brotherly relationship just has a very different tone than the last few seasons.  I like it!  Don't get me wrong.  It's just SO different - and maybe even more noticeable after binge watching?

Taken to TPTB thread... .

[bettername2come]

Ghostfacers reference! This one amuses me more because I just watched the Buzzfeed Unsolved episode at the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast. Got to say, it looked equally badly decorated. "Maybe the murderer was actually competent." Oh, Dean. Don't hate on Sam's serial killer fetish. You both knew about HH Holmes.  I love the reference to Cas binge watching The Wire. Sam's little "yeah, maybe" expression and head nod at the idea of potentially eating $200 worth of danish amuses me greatly. "Why do you keep spraying it?" "I just wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked." Bless Sam. He's adorable. Nice to see the Scooby Doo style hoax for once. We need more kids from Stranger Things to guest star. Poor soulless Len. There's some good dialogue as Sam and Dean argue over who's gonna tell Len. "Sensitive verbal massage" and "prehistoric tween" stand out in my mind. I like Sam looking uncomfortable when babysitter asked if he had nice parents. I like that even without a soul babysitter still has a sense of morality, screwed up though it may be. She wanted to protect Jordy. And Len helping Sam and Dean because he knew he should. I like that piece of consistency about soulless people. "I picked up my thumb like it was a mini hot dog." "Not gonna lie, that's worrisome." I love Dean saying he doesn't want to kill Len. 

[Hanahope]

I thought the girl looked familiar.  Didn’t recognize her with hair. 

Nah at first I thought this would be a Ghostfacers episode.  I wonder if the reference means they made up.

Interesting to see the different reactions to being soulless.  I’ve hated some former bosses, but never thought about killing them.

[Wayward Son]

On 5 November 2015 at 3:03 AM, Jediknight said:

What the butt, Sam and Dean don't know about the stories of Lizzie Borden's house being haunted?  Sam and Dean Winchester haven't heard the stories, or even seen the Unsolved Mysteries segment?  Sam had to look it up online?  This is Sam and Dean, they should know that.

 

Other than that, I liked the episode.

I don't think that is what the episode was trying to communicate. Dean clearly states to Sam "You've always wanted to see that house!" 

 

My understanding of events was as follows: 

- Sam is on the internet looking through newspapers for signs of a case (as we have seen the brothers do in numerous episodes throughout the show) 

- He spots an article about the murders at the Lizzie Borden house in one of these papers and thinks there is a case for them there. 

- He informs Dean and Dean starts to tease him about only wanting to go due to his serial killer fetish. 

[The Companion]

 

On 10/11/2016 at 8:41 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

• Hey, it's the kid from Stranger Things!

Hooray for Finn Wolfhard. Wish they had given him a smidge more to do, honestly. This was the year before he would blow up and become very recognizable. It was so funny for him to show up and then read this thread where nobody knew him yet.

 

I liked this one a lot. It felt like an old school mystery and then suddenly it wasn't. The comment about the "new" policy to not kill people was weird and there were a few other bits already mentioned, but overall I found this one a really good mix of story arc and MoTW.

I do see the concerns about Dean not being fully Dean and I can't decide what it means. I find it to be somewhat subtle and can't decide if it is a Mark of Cain hangover, so to speak, or something else.

[S Cook Productions]

21 hours ago, The Companion said:

 

Hooray for Finn Wolfhard. Wish they had given him a smidge more to do, honestly. This was the year before he would blow up and become very recognizable. It was so funny for him to show up and then read this thread where nobody knew him yet.

 

I liked this one a lot. It felt like an old school mystery and then suddenly it wasn't. The comment about the "new" policy to not kill people was weird and there were a few other bits already mentioned, but overall I found this one a really good mix of story arc and MoTW.

I do see the concerns about Dean not being fully Dean and I can't decide what it means. I find it to be somewhat subtle and can't decide if it is a Mark of Cain hangover, so to speak, or something else.

OmG I didn’t even realize at the time it was Finn! Also, why did you skip talking about the Bad Seed ep I think it was called? The 3rd one of this season. I loved that episode!

 

[The Companion]

17 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

OmG I didn’t even realize at the time it was Finn! Also, why did you skip talking about the Bad Seed ep I think it was called? The 3rd one of this season. I loved that episode!

 

I watched two in a row and wanted to talk about Baby. Then I had all the feels about The Good Place's finale and The Magicians, so I haven't had the chance to go back and write out my thoughts. It's on the to do list. 😆