S01.E22: Leave it to Beaver

[Lisin]

From IMDB: "In the shocking, action-packed first season finale, a determined Veronica must betray someone she cares deeply about in order to solve the mystery of who murdered her best friend Lilly, but what she discovers puts her life in serious danger. Meanwhile, Jake Kane asks Duncan if he really wants to know what happened on the night Lilly died, and Keith awaits the results of a paternity test."

EEEK! Here's where it ALL comes together! This is such a tense episode, even having seen it several times I still got nervous when Veronica was in Lilly's room and Duncan came in. Having a major cliffhanger at the end but still tying up the main mystery was a great choice in my opinion. I liked that they leave you wanting more but still also satisfied with knowing who killed Lilly. Also the Lilly hallucination in the pool is super sweet. So good.

[clemmyb]

This is definitely one of the series' most tense episodes, and the pacing is really excellent all around.  We get lots to chew on with regard to the season's mystery being wrapped up but still leaving the viewers with a lot of questions.

Veronica's mom is pretty much the worst, right?

Also, that dream-scene with Veronica and Lilly in the pool makes me tear up every time.  When Veronica says, "Like this. Just like this," I can't stand it.  It's really well done.

I didn't start watching the series until the season 2 premiere, so I didn't have to wait the whole summer to find out who was at the door, but I still think that was a masterful way to end the season.

[Lisin]

Masterful is a great way to put it @clemmyb. I thought it was so smart to give the viewers a wrap up of the season long mystery and yet still leave us wanting more desperately.

[formerlyfreedom]

I've just finished watching this and the previous episode (A Trip to the Dentist), and there is SO MUCH that happens in these two eps. You don't see that in a lot of shows these days (although The Vampire Diaries and Sleepy Hollow do what they can!), and that's what I miss so much about this wonderful, fantastic, completely IMPLAUSIBLE show!

[Lisin]

Yes! I always use Vampire Diaries as a show that REALLY moves plot along at a fast pace and these two episodes of Veronica Mars are another good example of that. Other shows would have dragged this mystery into the next season if they had this much to get through. Or they would have had the reveal that Aaron was the killer but no resolution of that or something. I just love how fast they go here. 

[halgia]

Whoof. Somehow I had forgotten the resolution to the main mystery until right before it got revealed here, and maaaaaaan. What an episode.

[rungirl911]

Just finished season 1 yesterday and agree with all the previous posts.  Why did it take me so long to watch this series? I was in love at the first episode.  I genuinely care about what happens to these people (characters) and I too was very teary during the pool scene.  

[Hanahope]

Heh, can't believe I was right about Aaron, when I saw him beat up Trina's boyfriend.  I just knew it would be someone that we already didn't like all that much and Aaron fit the bill.  I didn't see how Veronica could really have believed Logan killed her the way he acted in putting together her tribute video.  And I knew Duncan's parents lied because they feared Duncan had killed Lilly.  So much wrong could have been fixed had they let the police really do their job.  But then we wouldn't have a show.  Its great that they solved that mystery as well as Veronica's rape in the first season.

 

And....people on TV never check their back seats, especially when they leave a house full of people to drive alone on dark streets.

 

So, Veronica's mother is really the screw up and steals as well (twice now from Veronica).  Guess that makes it easy to dislike her as well.

[betsyboo]

This is definitely one of the series' most tense episodes, and the pacing is really excellent all around.  We get lots to chew on with regard to the season's mystery being wrapped up but still leaving the viewers with a lot of questions.

Veronica's mom is pretty much the worst, right?

Also, that dream-scene with Veronica and Lilly in the pool makes me tear up every time.  When Veronica says, "Like this. Just like this," I can't stand it.  It's really well done.

I didn't start watching the series until the season 2 premiere, so I didn't have to wait the whole summer to find out who was at the door, but I still think that was a masterful way to end the season.

Me, too.

 

Just finished the season 1 rewatch yesterday on the plane returning from vacation. And even tho I've seen it several times, Aaron rising up in the back seat makes me flinch every time.

 

I'd forgotten how much I love, love LOVE Keith and Veronica's relationship. 

 

Here are my quibbles/questions:

1. When Veronica gets out of the car after crashing, she is very clearly carrying her keys. In fact, I took a moment to wonder why she would have bothered to take her keys from the ignition since the car wasn't driveable. But as she is running through the yard looking for help, it doesn't appear she is carrying them. Then Aaron (or Haaron, tmTWOP) takes keys from her bag to steal Keith's car. ?? (Altho I guess it's possible she has her dad's keys on a separate ring.) I vaguely recall a discussion on this at TWOP.
2. If Veronica and Keith go to the hospital in the ambulance, what happened to Backup? Also, how did she get home from the hospital? (altho, i can handwave part 2 of my question since the police or Leo could have dropped her at home)
3. So Veronica tried to call Logan as she left the party. As far as we know, she never called him from the hospital. Season 2 spoiler here - newbies beware:
   So when he shows up at her door, shouldn't she have greeted him with something more along the lines of "Hey, your dad killed Lily and tried to kill me tonight." Or at least: "Hey, before you come in there is something you should know..."  The being happy to see him seemed incongruous this time around.

4. When Lianne came back, do we think/know if she ever told Keith why she left? Meaning, does Keith know that Clarence took pix of Veronica and threatened Lianne with them? I have no recollection on this.
5. I wish we had seen Duncan pull his folks aside from the Governator to say  "Hey, um, it was Mr. Echolls who killed Lily. Veronica's chasing him down, fyi..."
6. I should maybe go post this in Unpopular Opinions, but this is probably my 5th or 6th full-season rewatch, and I think this is the first time I really thought Veronica was a bitch to Logan. Yes, she runs. Yes, he brought the GHB to the party, Yes, she didn't know he wasn't the one recording in the poolhouse. But she never gave him the benefit of the doubt, ever. Perhaps he didn't deserve it. I'm not sure when I became more of a Logan fan/apologist than Veronica!

 

I think it's been a couple years since I last rewatched, and I think that was right after the kickstarter announcement, so i was SUPER EXCITED and therefore willing to overlook these Qs. Apparently none of them occurred to me before!

[marshmallows]

On 12/26/2015 at 3:00 PM, betsyboo said:

Me, too.

 

Just finished the season 1 rewatch yesterday on the plane returning from vacation. And even tho I've seen it several times, Aaron rising up in the back seat makes me flinch every time.

 

I'd forgotten how much I love, love LOVE Keith and Veronica's relationship. 

 

Here are my quibbles/questions:

1. When Veronica gets out of the car after crashing, she is very clearly carrying her keys. In fact, I took a moment to wonder why she would have bothered to take her keys from the ignition since the car wasn't driveable. But as she is running through the yard looking for help, it doesn't appear she is carrying them. Then Aaron (or Haaron, tmTWOP) takes keys from her bag to steal Keith's car. ?? (Altho I guess it's possible she has her dad's keys on a separate ring.) I vaguely recall a discussion on this at TWOP.
2. If Veronica and Keith go to the hospital in the ambulance, what happened to Backup? Also, how did she get home from the hospital? (altho, i can handwave part 2 of my question since the police or Leo could have dropped her at home)
3. So Veronica tried to call Logan as she left the party. As far as we know, she never called him from the hospital. Season 2 spoiler here - newbies beware:
     Hide contents

   So when he shows up at her door, shouldn't she have greeted him with something more along the lines of "Hey, your dad killed Lily and tried to kill me tonight." Or at least: "Hey, before you come in there is something you should know..."  The being happy to see him seemed incongruous this time around.

    

4. When Lianne came back, do we think/know if she ever told Keith why she left? Meaning, does Keith know that Clarence took pix of Veronica and threatened Lianne with them? I have no recollection on this.
5. I wish we had seen Duncan pull his folks aside from the Governator to say  "Hey, um, it was Mr. Echolls who killed Lily. Veronica's chasing him down, fyi..."
6. I should maybe go post this in Unpopular Opinions, but this is probably my 5th or 6th full-season rewatch, and I think this is the first time I really thought Veronica was a bitch to Logan. Yes, she runs. Yes, he brought the GHB to the party, Yes, she didn't know he wasn't the one recording in the poolhouse. But she never gave him the benefit of the doubt, ever. Perhaps he didn't deserve it. I'm not sure when I became more of a Logan fan/apologist than Veronica!

 

I think it's been a couple years since I last rewatched, and I think that was right after the kickstarter announcement, so i was SUPER EXCITED and therefore willing to overlook these Qs. Apparently none of them occurred to me before!

Hi so you posted this forever ago, but I just recently watched VM and am totally obsessed. I was going to try to answer some of these questions, if you even still care lol.

3. I always thought that Veronica thought it was Duncan at her door. When Logan turns around, she seemed surprised (but then again that could be because he is bloody, and she has no idea why.) Assuming she was happy to see Logan and not Duncan, maybe she was just happy to see that he showed up after she accused him of killing Lilly, and then didn't mention his father killing Lilly and attempting to kill her thing since he was bloody and crying.

4. I don't think she ever told Keith.

5. Yes, that would have been gold.

6. I really agree with you. I understood why she freaked about the GHB thing, but after they had the heart to heart about that, I am really unsure as to why she wouldn't just confront him about his alibi and the camera above his bed. It was extremely unfair and I was totally with Logan when he yelled at her on the beach. Like the one thing she had a real reason to be upset over (the fact that he had GHB at the party she was raped at) she seemed to just gloss over. I think her glossing that over is why they always had such deep seeded issues. This really should have came up again at some point in their relationship. Like when he asks her if she loves him? She could have said "Yeah, but I don't trust you." And then this could have invoked a fresh conversation about the GHB. I can think of at least 3 other ways, but since this is a s1 forum, I don't want to spoil anything to new watchers.

 

Btw I didn't even try to answer your first two questions because I have no idea what happened to Backup, and I never caught on to the keys part. Interesting observation!

[John Potts]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 8:00 PM, betsyboo said:

I should maybe go post this in Unpopular Opinions, but this is probably my 5th or 6th full-season rewatch, and I think this is the first time I really thought Veronica was a bitch to Logan. Yes, she runs. Yes, he brought the GHB to the party, Yes, she didn't know he wasn't the one recording in the poolhouse. But she never gave him the benefit of the doubt, ever. Perhaps he didn't deserve it. I'm not sure when I became more of a Logan fan/apologist than Veronica!

Well, unlike in Game of Thrones where I seem to be the one defending the bad boys (generally the Lannisters), I'm definitely NOT a LoVe fan. As far as I'm concerned, Logan IS fundamentally the one responsible for Veronica getting roofie'd (far more than Madison, who V seems to blame for it) - "Oh, but I was trying to roofie somebody (actually, TWO somebodies) else!" really SHOULDN'T stand up in court (though it might well in Neptune). Sure, it may not have been him that filmed the two of them in the pool house, but as the "Producer" of Bum Fights, was it really so hard to believe he might? Should Veronica really give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who has consistently denigrated her (eg. calling her a ho in Echolls Family Christmas)? I get that he was a victim of abuse from his father which makes his actions slightly more understandable, but if you ask me, she was far too forgiving of Logan. If he hadn't been witty and looked like Jason Dohring, would people be as prepared to defend him?

(And on the subject of LoVe - Why was Veronica so convinced it had to be DUNCAN who gave her Chlamydia*? Didn't she date Logan over the Summer too? Somehow I can't see Logan being the sort of guy who was prepared to date a girl that wasn't putting out - though given the timeline of the Summer is somewhat fuzzy, it's possible that their make out session in the back of the car that ended in a gunshot was their first and only date)

* I DO know who actually infected her, but from Veronica's viewpoint, he primary suspects should have been 1) Duncan 2) Logan

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, John Potts said:

Well, unlike in Game of Thrones where I seem to be the one defending the bad boys (generally the Lannisters), I'm definitely NOT a LoVe fan. As far as I'm concerned, Logan IS fundamentally the one responsible for Veronica getting roofie'd (far more than Madison, who V seems to blame for it) - "Oh, but I was trying to roofie somebody (actually, TWO somebodies) else!" really SHOULDN'T stand up in court (though it might well in Neptune). Sure, it may not have been him that filmed the two of them in the pool house, but as the "Producer" of Bum Fights, was it really so hard to believe he might? Should Veronica really give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who has consistently denigrated her (eg. calling her a ho in Echolls Family Christmas)? I get that he was a victim of abuse from his father which makes his actions slightly more understandable, but if you ask me, she was far too forgiving of Logan. If he hadn't been witty and looked like Jason Dohring, would people be as prepared to defend him?

(And on the subject of LoVe - Why was Veronica so convinced it had to be DUNCAN who gave her Chlamydia*? Didn't she date Logan over the Summer too? Somehow I can't see Logan being the sort of guy who was prepared to date a girl that wasn't putting out - though given the timeline of the Summer is somewhat fuzzy, it's possible that their make out session in the back of the car that ended in a gunshot was their first and only date)

* I DO know who actually infected her, but from Veronica's viewpoint, he primary suspects should have been 1) Duncan 2) Logan

I think Veronica hates Madison and it isn't really logical and she's mad at herself for being so stupid as to take a drink from her. However, when she first starts to piece stuff together she doesn't know who brought the drug and may have actually thought it was Madison. It could have been, too, I don't think we see anything to indicate Madison would have been above making Veronica look like a drunken slut. Also, the salt lick thing was sexual assault and she didn't want to open up that can of worms.

I don't think she had actual sexual intercourse with Logan at that time, but if she had I'd imagine she would have made sure they used a condom and she would assume the rape was unprotected.

The bullying continues in all the seasons, in some form or another, it would make anyone skittish.

Spoiler

parading Kendall in front of her in season 2 and beating up Piz and Gory in season 3 are all 'i'm a jackass, look at me, look at me' behaviors like the bullying in season 1.

btw, she does give him the benefit of the doubt about Mercer and that doesn't turn out well.

[Melgaypet]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

It could have been, too, I don't think we see anything to indicate Madison would have been above making Veronica look like a drunken slut.

It was Dick that roofied Madison's drink, and Madison spat in it and gave to Veronica. Dick, whom Veronica treated with tolerant and amused scorn later on, whose intention was to rape his girlfriend; as opposed to Madison, whom she treated with open loathing, whose intention was to play a gross, petty, but harmless prank. This bugs the hell out of me, can you tell? Though I blame the show falling in love with Ryan Hansen more than I do the character Veronica herself.

There was no room, I get it, what with murder revelations and all, but it's weird that we never saw Duncan react to the fact that his best friend drugged him. (I guess Veronica never told him that part? Nice of her to cover for Logan, though I don't think he much deserved it.)  I guess that pales in comparison to "your dad killed my sister," but it is something Logan himself is actually culpable for.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Melgaypet

[betsyboo]

On 2/25/2017 at 7:38 AM, John Potts said:

(And on the subject of LoVe - Why was Veronica so convinced it had to be DUNCAN who gave her Chlamydia*? Didn't she date Logan over the Summer too? Somehow I can't see Logan being the sort of guy who was prepared to date a girl that wasn't putting out - though given the timeline of the Summer is somewhat fuzzy, it's possible that their make out session in the back of the car that ended in a gunshot was their first and only date)

* I DO know who actually infected her, but from Veronica's viewpoint, he primary suspects should have been 1) Duncan 2) Logan

I guess I always thought that she knew it had to be Duncan because that *was* the only guy she had slept with. I don't think she and Logan had sex until much later. But i admit my recollection is fuzzy and I don't know for sure. 

[Delphi]

On 2/21/2017 at 3:08 PM, marshmallows said:

 

3. I always thought that Veronica thought it was Duncan at her door. When Logan turns around, she seemed surprised (but then again that could be because he is bloody, and she has no idea why.) Assuming she was happy to see Logan and not Duncan, maybe she was just happy to see that he showed up after she accused him of killing Lilly, and then didn't mention his father killing Lilly and attempting to kill her thing since he was bloody and crying.

You posted this months ago,  but I just came across this so I wanted to bring it up.   Back in the heyday of theVM fandom there were some super sleuth fans themselves and they actually compared every single camera angle for all the Veronica/Logan Veronica/Duncan interactions and figured out that it was Logan at the door about a month after the finale ended.   It was really quite great work. 

[marshmallows]

On 7/28/2017 at 8:24 PM, Delphi said:

You posted this months ago,  but I just came across this so I wanted to bring it up.   Back in the heyday of theVM fandom there were some super sleuth fans themselves and they actually compared every single camera angle for all the Veronica/Logan Veronica/Duncan interactions and figured out that it was Logan at the door about a month after the finale ended.   It was really quite great work. 

When I watched it the first time about a year ago, I didn't know it was Logan at her door, but I thought it was him due to his height. Logan is taller than Duncan.  But, then when Veronica saw it was Logan and she looked confused/concerned that's when I thought that maybe she thought it was Duncan.  But, like I said she could have just been confused/concerned because he was bloody and beaten.  I wish the show would have cleared that up or some die hard fan that some how knows lol.  It still bugs me that this was never cleared up and neither was the whole did Kendall and Duncan ever fool around thing. It was alluded to, but never confirmed or dis-confirmed.

[LeGrandElephant]

At the end of the last episode Veronica left the secret cameras secret cabinet wide open. How would Logan not know that that’s why she bolted? 

On rewatch just starting this episode and I can’t believe how much still has to happen in 43 minutes!

[LeGrandElephant]

On 2/25/2017 at 4:38 AM, John Potts said:

And on the subject of LoVe - Why was Veronica so convinced it had to be DUNCAN who gave her Chlamydia*? Didn't she date Logan over the Summer too? Somehow I can't see Logan being the sort of guy who was prepared to date a girl that wasn't putting out - though given the timeline of the Summer is somewhat fuzzy, it's possible that their make out session in the back of the car that ended in a gunshot was their first and only date)

* I DO know who actually infected her, but from Veronica's viewpoint, he primary suspects should have been 1) Duncan 2) Logan

Spoiler

They’re teenagers and she has a lot of reasons not to want to jump into full on sex. She’s never had sex that she remembers before. I think her next time would feel like her first time but with even more extra baggage. Not surprising she’d want to wait and that Logan wouldn’t want to push her. They probably did some heavy petting but no more (unless it’s been otherwise stated? I don’t remember). 

ETA: Watching 02-01 now and in the flashbacks of her and Logan making out there are several comments indicating they haven’t gone all the way yet. 

ETA again 02-02 makes it even more explicit that Veronica and Logan did not have sex during the summer between season one and two. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by LeGrandElephant

[LeGrandElephant]

On 7/28/2017 at 5:24 PM, Delphi said:

Back in the heyday of theVM fandom there were some super sleuth fans themselves and they actually compared every single camera angle for all the Veronica/Logan Veronica/Duncan interactions and figured out that it was Logan at the door about a month after the finale ended.   It was really quite great work. 

But they didn’t even show a silhouette or anything. Just based on the angle of her gaze????

[Calvada]

A few things have always bothered me about this episode.  Mostly the fact that there is no way that in the initial stages of the investigation Keith would have failed to obtain a search warrant and gone through the entire Kane house, including the vents, which is a very common place for people to stash guns, drugs and other contraband.  That's Law Enforcement 101.  Second, why did Keith leave Backup in the car?  If you think your daughter is in mortal danger, bring your killer dog WITH you.  Some Backup is always a good thing.  And Veronica, if the crazy man is chasing you, hide.  Don't try to wake up the guy in the house, hide somewhere in the National Forest that apparently is the route between the Kane mansion and your apartment.