Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah I think Thea and Donna are in another part of the building when Brie breaks in. Not sure about Curtis, maybe he was off that day and Felicity sends him to the Lair to help the team beat Brie since she's a tech villain?

[Genki]

@bijoux There were pictures form ages ago when they were filming of Oliver in a suit in PT fighting.

 

 

I got the impression from the comic preview that Felicity is looking at the computer (security cam footage?) of Brie broadcasting that she's holding the board of directors hostage, wants the implant prototype, and will set bees on them if Felicity doesn't come out.  I think Thea happens to be around with Donna and Felicity when Brie broadcasts to Felicity's computer, but I don't think she came to warn them.  I figured Curtis is the one that warned the team about the bees (after Thea is already in PT). 

 

 

I hope you are right, then Thea was actually hanging out with Felicity and Mama Smoak.

[spartan]

The CW hasn't the money to fake anything. LL is dead and her fans will have to deal with it. I honestly doubt casual viewers will notice the difference because not counting the last episode the writers didn't have her do anything of significance the whole season.

Ok, the laurel fans will be very difficult.

  I love laurel and sincerely  I admit that Laurel is in the grave, but a return is possible even in the seaosn 5, never say never.

I remember caity said in an interview after the death of Sara that  it was really definitive and that sara never return, and that writers have said that it was the best thing to do for his character, and yes I know that she returned to legend and wendy said the new death will be permanent because of the ressurection but the writers changed their plans as we have already seen, so nothing is impossile.

[ArrowFan]

Yeah I think Thea and Donna are in another part of the building when Brie breaks in. Not sure about Curtis, maybe he was off that day and Felicity sends him to the Lair to help the team beat Brie since she's a tech villain?

 

The Philippines trailer answers the Curtis question.

He mentioned about passing out because he's sick not because of them, or something to that effect.

 

I'm confident Curtis is sick, and has a day off from work, and Felicity messages him for some reason.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Ok, the laurel fans will be very difficult.

  I love laurel and sincerely  I admit that Laurel is in the grave, but a return is possible even in the seaosn 5, never say never.

I remember caity said in an interview after the death of Sara that  it was really definitive and that sara never return, and that writers have said that it was the best thing to do for his character, and yes I know that she returned to legend and wendy said the new death will be permanent because of the ressurection but the writers changed their plans as we have already seen, so nothing is impossile.

They brought Sara back because they found a use for her in another show. Because of the poor reception Ray got in S3 what was supposed to be "The Atom" show had to be something different. That was a peculiar situation and I don't see how it could apply to KC, especially considering the history her character had on the show. They tried everything with her and at the end decided to kill LL off. I can't see a scenario where bringing her back would make sense.

Also I imagine it will be hard for her fans to see her die, what I was trying to say is that it's a TV show, it's not a real life tragedy so I don't understand the denial. For a while I was afraid they were going to kill Dig and if we got so many evidence to indicate that even as a big fan I would have had to deal with that decision and let it go.

[catrox14]

It totally boggles my mind that KC has dyed her hair, is planning con appearances during times that Arrow will be filming next season, and is shilling various products (Dominos pizza, the Prius, Dunkin' Donuts, Apple products, etc.), but people are still convinced she's not dead!!  She's dead, y'all.  Dead dead dead.  Never-coming-back dead.  Man, April 6th is going to be such a LOL-fest of meltdowns!   

 

 

Eh. I wouldn't look at the product shilling as a sign of anything.  Jared Padelecki is shilling too, filmed for Gilmore Girls and is still filming for SPN.  I am just not banking on Laurel being the death because I don't get nice things like that. I just don't

[Chaser]

It's the hair. If I really wanted to I could come up with an explanation for all the other evidence (she always tags stuff, actors do cons during the filming months all the time, maybe she didn't film the present day funeral cause Laurel got hurt), but there's the hair.

 

You don't dye your hair in the middle of shooting an episode.

[tarotx]

Plus all those things combined and the secret episode title. Plus she's a comic mask and MG wants that on the table. And just how people talked and acted at HVFF.

Edited March 26, 2016 by tarotx

[AyChihuahua]

And both paps, who've been pretty accurate lately.

[catrox14]

It's the hair. If I really wanted to I could come up with an explanation for all the other evidence (she always tags stuff, actors do cons during the filming months all the time, maybe she didn't film the present day funeral cause Laurel got hurt), but there's the hair.

 

You don't dye your hair in the middle of shooting an episode.

 

You might if the character's appearance has to change

[apinknightmare]

You might if the character's appearance has to change

 

Since there were pics of every other main cast member but Katie at the present time funeral shoot, who's your guess on who it is? Nyssa was there, so it's not just some rando she's never met, like either of the Claytons, or Donna.

Edited March 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Since there were pics of every other main cast member but Katie at the present time funeral shoot, who's your guess on who it is? Nyssa was there, so it's not just some rando she's never met, like either of the Claytons, or Donna.

 

Huh? Sorry I"m not following your question.

[Chaser]

You might if the character's appearance has to change

Right....so she dyed in Chicago at a con because Laurel was changing her appearance.

[catrox14]

Right....so she dyed in Chicago at a con because Laurel was changing her appearance.

 

I don't think it's such an outrageous thought. If Laurel's appearance is changing and it stays that way until the end of the season...

 

I've seen crazier things.  LOOK, I'm just not getting my hopes up. I'm not a Laurel fan. I mean my posts here confirm that LOL. I'm just being extremely cautious and looking at other reasons why her actions may not necessarily point to her demise. I'm protecting myself from massive disappointment if it doesn't happen. You know what I mean?

[ComicFan777]

Let's play devils advocate here:
Laurel is in danger because of DD trial.  Lance and Laurel fake LL's death, so the team thinks she is dead, too.  They do hold a funeral in the present for LL, but she is not actually dead.  She goes into hiding, so KC is not on set.  LL has to change her overall appearance so that if someone sees her by accident in the rare case that LL has to leave her secret hideout, she doesn't look like her.  Towards the end of the season (not happened yet), someone else dies for reals. 

[apinknightmare]

Huh? Sorry I"m not following your question.

 

My question is, since you don't think Laurel is in the grave, who do you think is? Katie was the only cast member who wasn't spotted/photographed on set for the present-day funeral. Nyssa was there, so it's someone she knows - which eliminates either of the Claytons and Donna. That pretty much only leaves Roy (a real long shot candidate) - and as far as we know he hasn't been asked back since his last appearance.

Edited March 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

LL has to change her overall appearance so that if someone sees her by accident in the rare case that LL has to leave her secret hideout, she doesn't look like her.

I'm amused by the notion of a production decision to change a character's appearance in a show that shoots in Vancouver and employs professional hair specialists ends up with an actress dying her hair on a Sunday morning in a hotel room in Chicago.

Edited March 25, 2016 by dtissagirl

[ComicFan777]

I'm amused by the notion of a production decision to change a character's appearance in a show that shoots in Vancouver and employs professional hair specialists ends up with an actress dying her hair on a Sunday morning in a hotel room in Chicago.

 

Yeah, totally grasping at straws here...:)  I am gonna go with LL's actions rarely make sense, and neither does KC.  Expect the unexpected.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by ComicFan777

[catrox14]

My question is, since you don't think Laurel is in the grave, who do you think is? Katie was the only cast member who wasn't spotted/photographed on set for the present-day funeral. Nyssa was there, so it's someone she knows - which eliminates either of the Claytons and Donna. That pretty much only leaves Roy (a real long shot candidate) - and as far as we know he hasn't been asked back since his last appearance.

 

I never said unequivocally that Laurel isn't in the grave. I have been saying I'm just not getting my hopes up. See my other comment about my rationale.

 

I said a long time ago that my first thought was that it was Diggle, Felicity or Roy. Unless Oliver is hallucinating the limo conversation with Felicity, it's not her. That leaves Diggle or Roy as alternatives to Laurel. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

I never said unequivocally that Laurel isn't in the grave. I have been saying I'm just not getting my hopes up. See my other comment about my rationale.

 

I was just curious about who you thought it was, since we have evidence that it's probably not anyone else, haha. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

I never said unequivocally that Laurel isn't in the grave. I have been saying I'm just not getting my hopes up. See my other comment about my rationale.

 

I said a long time ago that my first thought was that it was Diggle, Felicity or Roy. Unless Oliver is hallucinating the limo conversation with Felicity, it's not her. That leaves Diggle or Roy as alternatives to Laurel. 

You think Nyssa would show up to Digg's or Roy's funerals? And Laurel's mom? 

 

I would find Quentin a FAR likelier alternative. Nyssa might show up to Sara's and Laurel's father's funeral, and I'd definitely think his ex-wife would.

Edited March 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

Wait, maybe I'm confused.  Are we talking about Oliver's scene at the grave with just him and Barry, Cause that's the grave I'm talking about?

 

Is there a more than two funerals here? The one in the past and the one in the present?

[Starfish35]

Wait, maybe I'm confused. Are we talking about Oliver's scene at the grave with just him and Barry, Cause that's the grave I'm talking about?

That's the one we're talking about. Nyssa is present at that funeral. She wouldn't be there for Diggle or Roy.

Is there a more than two funerals here? The one in the past and the one in the present?

Two funerals in 419. One present (the one from the flash forward), one past. Nyssa would not be there for the past one.

Also, Alex Kingston was on set, which means the person who died has to be a Lance.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

Nyssa could be there to protect Laurel not mourn her.

 

Again I AM NOT SAYING LAUREL ISN'T DEAD. LOL I feel like I have to qualify every time I offer a counter point. LOL

[Chaser]

I'm cool with you tossing in an alternative. I just don't think there is much too support another theory.

Nyssa there to protect Laurel. Okay, but Laurel isn't there.

[Starfish35]

Well, in 12 days we will have proof one way or the other. :) But I agree with Chaser. If I thought there was a chance it could be anyone but Laurel, I would still be skeptical as well. But with all the evidence that we have, I honestly don't see how it can be anyone else.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Nyssa could be there to protect Laurel not mourn her.

 

Again I AM NOT SAYING LAUREL ISN'T DEAD. LOL I feel like I have to qualify every time I offer a counter point. LOL

 

We're just trying to help you see the light :p 

 

If there was an alternative... I honestly have no clue. With all the evidence it points towards Laurel:

• The leaked photos of the 2 funerals
• KC not being anywhere near set during filming
• Even some of the paps like CG/Ken said she's gone (and they're always truthful regardless of their other faults)
• KC dying her hair
• KC changing her twitter pics
• Then there's the stuff at the con where she got super serious about who was in the grave whereas everyone else joked about it
• PB being on set along with EBR (we haven't seen any set photos of Diggle/Thea yet)
• The photos KC has been posting to mislead the fans (which she's been doing a terrible job of tbh)
• Laurel not having anymore storylines in the show and everything's been tied up neatly
• Laurel now being a huge target after putting Darhk in jail

 

There's just too much evidence NOT to believe it imo... And KC isn't crafty enough to pull of this elaborate of a 'prank'.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yup, the problem is that there isn't a believable alternative. We know the main cast members but Laurel are alive and attend the present time funeral so (not counting Oliver and Felicity that we know are alive) Thea, Diggle and Quentin are alive. We also know Dinah and Nyssa attend the present time funeral and they would be there only for a Laurel or Lance, but Lance is alive and PB is currently filming and posting videos from the set. Donna is alive as well and is coming back in 4x22.

Dinah wouldn't attend Roy's funeral so there's no one else. And it's not even counting the pap with inside sources that has always been right about spoilers so far that flat out said it's her.

[AyChihuahua]

Nyssa could be there to protect Laurel not mourn her.

 

Again I AM NOT SAYING LAUREL ISN'T DEAD. LOL I feel like I have to qualify every time I offer a counter point. LOL

No, people are just asking you what other theory fits the available evidence. Going from the pics alone, it's not Digg or Roy, bc Nyssa and Dinah wouldn't show up for either of them. 

[catrox14]

 

We're just trying to help you see the light :p

 

Oh I want to be on the train.  You don't even know how MUCH I want it to happen. I'm even willing to say it's probably more than a lot of people here.

 

But I've been crushed by other shows before that teased me and ...boom they ripped the rug out from under me. I have PTVSLD

 

Post-TVshowletdowndisorder

Edited March 26, 2016 by catrox14

[lemotomato]

• PB being on set along with EBR (we haven't seen any set photos of Diggle/Thea yet)

No on set pic of WH yet, but there was one with DR. He and SA posted one after the season 5 renewal announcement. 

[ArrowFan]

Let's play devils advocate here:

Laurel is in danger because of DD trial.  Lance and Laurel fake LL's death, so the team thinks she is dead, too.  They do hold a funeral in the present for LL, but she is not actually dead.  She goes into hiding, so KC is not on set.  LL has to change her overall appearance so that if someone sees her by accident in the rare case that LL has to leave her secret hideout, she doesn't look like her.  Towards the end of the season (not happened yet), someone else dies for reals. 

 

I think this is an awesome alternative theory!

 

However, there ARE a couple of holes:

 

1. Why wouldn't Team Arrow be in the know for her faking her death? We saw Felicity and Oliver in an intensely private moment; devastated by this death.

 

2. The writers promised the death would be permanent and that it's a major cast member. 4x18 or 4x19 death allows for a fallout to occur in the rest of the episodes. For Oliver, he has two questions to really answer this season. First, can he be a hero in the light, no matter how "dark" it gets? Second, can he and Felicity be together AND be heroes?

 

Both of those questions must be answered. Question 1 is particularly important here, as the death is meant to drive the characters into dark places, and finally test Oliver's inner light.

 

In other words, plot-wise, a later death wouldn't work.

[ComicFan777]

I think this is an awesome alternative theory!

 

However, there ARE a couple of holes:

 

1. Why wouldn't Team Arrow be in the know for her faking her death? We saw Felicity and Oliver in an intensely private moment; devastated by this death.

 

2. The writers promised the death would be permanent and that it's a major cast member. 4x18 or 4x19 death allows for a fallout to occur in the rest of the episodes. For Oliver, he has two questions to really answer this season. First, can he be a hero in the light, no matter how "dark" it gets? Second, can he and Felicity be together AND be heroes?

 

Both of those questions must be answered. Question 1 is particularly important here, as the death is meant to drive the characters into dark places, and finally test Oliver's inner light.

 

In other words, plot-wise, a later death wouldn't work.

 

1. Lance and Laurel would think the less people know the better (Lances like to keep secrets).  Also, it would move plot along to give Oliver and Felicity reasons to grow from it.

 

2. Permanent death happens later - maybe Lance?  

 

Again, just playing devil's advocate and is consistent with evidence.

 

[apinknightmare]

Except there's not a really good reason as to why - if Laurel had to change her appearance - Katie herself would dye her hair in the middle of a con weekend instead of letting one of the hair and makeup people on the show do it.

[ComicFan777]

Maybe she has a favorite hair stylist she likes to go to and could only get scheduled then...

[apinknightmare]

I guess that could be possible, although it'd be strange to me that she'd have a favored stylist in a con city she doesn't live or work in.

Edited March 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

^^^^This

Edited March 26, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

I guess that could be possible, although it'd be strange to me that she'd have a favored stylist in a con city she doesn't live or work in.

 

Maybe it wasn't a favorite stylist but someone who was supposed to be really good that she wanted to use who was in Chicago

[calliope1975]

Maybe it wasn't a favorite stylist but someone who was supposed to be really good that she wanted to use who was in Chicago

 

I know you're bracing yourself for disappointment, but I would think after the Felicity (show, not character) debacle, shows are a bit more on top of what their actors are doing appearance wise. I just have a hard time seeing TPTB be okay with letting their on paper lead actress pick some rando in Chicago that said actress has never used to completely change her entire look. Anything's possible, but I'm going with Occam's Razor here. :D 

[bijoux]

You know, one of the things I love about the pics from 4x17 is that they've added a new weapon to Felicity's growing arsenal of random heavy, blunt objects she wields like a boss. It's almost like Dig's attitude of 'arrows? got my Glock, don't need no stinkin' arrows'. Felicity's is along the lines of, 'weapons? don't need no stinkin' weapons, the world is my arsenal.'

[lemotomato]

She's certainly had to build upper body strength from wheeling herself around for months.

 

Random musings: Has KC done any episode-specific press this season? I can't remember if she gave any interviews during Laurel's arc in 402 to 405. All the promotion for 416 was with Amy Gumenick. You would think that Laurel's return to the courtroom would merit some insight from KC... if she were still on the show. 

[looptab]

You know, if you were doubtful about Laurel's death and believed the fake funeral theory, which actors were there doesn't factor in to prove it wrong. It'd be a fake funeral but a funeral nonetheless, so Dinah and Nyssa would be there. But I do agree that the hair change is the biggest clue, because no way would she do that in the middle of a con, by herself, with fans that could see her being blond one day and brunette the very next day.

One could argue that KC did one of those temporary dyes - and she'd turn blond again by the time she has to appear in the finale. But honestly, coupled with everything else it's hard to not believe.

I'M A BELIEVER!

[BkWurm1]

You know who we haven't talked about in a long time?  Andy.  It seems again we will hear nothing of him in 4-17 and suddenly, I'm back to wondering just who the "he" is that must be killed.  Have we heard anything to suggest that Andy might be in 4-18? 

[bijoux]

There was a photo of him and Dig that didn't fit into any of the aired episodes. And they name dropped him in the last one.

[BkWurm1]

That's almost more suspicious. 

[Guest]

I've been wondering about Andy for ages now. No mention of him whatsoever. But we've also not heard anything about Diggle for a while now either. 

[Morrigan2575]

She's certainly had to build upper body strength from wheeling herself around for months.

Random musings: Has KC done any episode-specific press this season? I can't remember if she gave any interviews during Laurel's arc in 402 to 405. All the promotion for 416 was with Amy Gumenick. You would think that Laurel's return to the courtroom would merit some insight from KC... if she were still on the show.

Not specifically, DR (411) PB (404), and a got lot guest stars have done episode specific interviews. I don't think the rest have. I think EBR did one for a recent episode, not 411, maybe 413 or 414?

[Chaser]

EBR did them for 4x15. I remember it as the apology tour for the instant walk.

This year just seems like a lot of guest stars.

I wonder if KC will do some post mortems afters 4x18, or 4x19 depending on if it's a cliffhanger or not.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks, I knew it was ome of the teen episodes just couldn't remember which.

[Chaser]

I blocked out a lot of the legal mess form 4x16. Does the public know that Oliver is the kid's dad?

 

'Cause I was wondering what Donna knows about the break up.