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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

It might not be just the death that pushes Oliver toward resolving to kill "him." If it's Malcolm and he has a hand in re-starting this Genesis thing after Darhk goes to prison and innocent people of Star City are killed, that might also play a part. It sounds like they're going to use the last 8 episodes to ramp up to the big showdown with whoever the season's real Big Bad is.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

I am wondering if its seeing how it affects Thea also. Laurel/Thea had a special bond (at least accordin to the show) so i could see Oliver finally being ready to kill him if Thea gives her blessing.

 

Did Thea give Oliver permission kill Malcolm in season 3 (b/c Sara)?...I don't remember...

It still makes me laugh in my head to think that Laurel has such a strong bond with Thea - hard for me to see it since she brought a traumatized Thea to Nanda Parbat with her sister's corpse to talk her dad into using the pit.  I know the writers want us to see that they have this incredible bond like sisters, but still I don't see it.  Yeah you are probably right though that Thea's blessing makes a difference.

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

It is kinda strange though to think that it takes Laurel's death to make him reconsider things - I mean, what about Sara? Granted, she is alive now, but still the action was there.

I agree but I think it'll be a last straw kind of thing. Like he'll finally realize that he's been an idiot keeping Malcolm around all the time. I think he was starting to feel that way when he found out Malcolm was the one who kidnapped his son. The death will just add on top of that.

Edited by Guest
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looptab

looptab

Did Thea give Oliver permission kill Malcolm in season 3 (b/c Sara)?...I don't remember...

 

Thea skipped asking her brother's permission and called Nyssa to take care of him. But then kept calling him Dad, so I wouldn't trust her judgment.

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tarotx

tarotx

I think Oliver just sees MM as a Villain now.  Before he was also Thea's father but now that he took William and put the boy in danger Oliver is more open to hating the man and then if Laurel dies because of Malcolm I can see how that will put him on Oliver's kill list. But I think if it's Laurel Lance is going to be a mess but not in a hating Oliver mess but a I've got nothing to live for mess and It will break Oliver and Felicity's heart. 

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looptab

looptab

Well, most of those pics came from KC. Charlotte Ross and Echo tweet something when they are on set, but the other regulars have been tweeting about the show very sporadically.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I'm beginning to wonder if KC has been lobbying for a secret twin (Shado/Mei style) so she can remain on the show.  After seeing the photos of her partying with Caity Lotz, I'm also beginning to wonder if she had any discussions with Caity about returning.  Well, Caity. I know there was that time where we had to do take after take after take because I couldn't stop smiling.  And there was that time that you were shot full of arrows, thrown at a dumpster, stuffed in a freezer, and tossed in a pine box so I could be Black Canary. And that time immediately following your death where I happily posted photos of them making a mold of my face for my new mask.  Look, I'm sorry about all of that.  But, could you PLEASE ask the producers if you can travel back in time and stop my death?  You owe me for digging you up and dragging your dead body to Nanda Poorbut!

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

@AyChihuahua, you're killing me. :D

 

(And making me feel incredibly self-conscious because I realize I write a lot of LOLs, too. XD)

Oh, I'm sorry. It's more that I don't understand the usage. Like "LOL, my best friend got fired, LOL"

 

I'm thinking it might be an existentialist statement on the inherent absurdity of life and its vicissitudes? Like something out of Vonnegut? I need to understand.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I'm beginning to wonder if KC has been lobbying for a secret twin (Shado/Mei style) so she can remain on the show. After seeing the photos of her partying with Caity Lotz, I'm also beginning to wonder if she had any discussions with Caity about returning. Well, Caity. I know there was that time where we had to do take after take after take because I couldn't stop smiling. And there was that time that you were shot full of arrows, thrown at a dumpster, stuffed in a freezer, and tossed in a pine box so I could be Black Canary. And that time immediately following your death where I happily posted photos of them making a mold of my face for my new mask. Look, I'm sorry about all of that. But, could you PLEASE ask the producers if you can travel back in time and stop my death? You owe me for digging you up and dragging your dead body to Nanda Poorbut!

I think it's a bit odd that KC and CL are best buds now, compared to how they never seemed to have anything to do with each other when CL was on the show in season 2. I remember people pointing out that KC didn't follow CL on social media.
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Oh, I'm sorry. It's more that I don't understand the usage. Like "LOL, my best friend got fired, LOL"

 

I'm thinking it might be an existentialist statement on the inherent absurdity of life and its vicissitudes? Like something out of Vonnegut? I need to understand.

Possibly. :) I catch myself writing it at the end of almost every sentence I type (not the bad news kind, though!) - even when texting friends, it's become a joke. I do it to sort of translate the tone I'd be using if I were talking? But there's definitely some of that, too :)

 

I'm beginning to wonder if KC has been lobbying for a secret twin (Shado/Mei style) so she can remain on the show.  After seeing the photos of her partying with Caity Lotz, I'm also beginning to wonder if she had any discussions with Caity about returning.  Well, Caity. I know there was that time where we had to do take after take after take because I couldn't stop smiling.  And there was that time that you were shot full of arrows, thrown at a dumpster, stuffed in a freezer, and tossed in a pine box so I could be Black Canary. And that time immediately following your death where I happily posted photos of them making a mold of my face for my new mask.  Look, I'm sorry about all of that.  But, could you PLEASE ask the producers if you can travel back in time and stop my death?  You owe me for digging you up and dragging your dead body to Nanda Poorbut!

You joke, but I had the same thought. Like, I've been actually wondering if among the details of the show she's missed there's the fact that Sara is two years younger than her.

 

@foreverevolving: I feel better now  :)

Edited by looptab
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kismet

kismet

I think Oliver just sees MM as a Villain now.  Before he was also Thea's father but now that he took William and put the boy in danger Oliver is more open to hating the man and then if Laurel dies because of Malcolm I can see how that will put him on Oliver's kill list. But I think if it's Laurel Lance is going to be a mess but not in a hating Oliver mess but a I've got nothing to live for mess and It will break Oliver and Felicity's heart. 

 

I could see that. MM really screwed things up for him & William. Say what you will about the secret keeping. I truly believe OQ thought he could turn BM around, and if the show was not dumb he probably could. I also think that he never wanted to destroy his son's life to be a part of it. He was never even going to make contact until BA convinced him too. But, now that MM got involved - ruining his son's life is exactly what MM forced him to do. His son's life was at danger, probably still is to a small degree. He lost the ability to be part of his son's life. He uprooted his child's entire life. And he lost his fiancee. So OQ is probably more willing to see MM the villain. I also think TQ is finally able to see MM the villain. I don't think it will cause anything to happen plotwise until s5 or s6. However, I think the days of MM the frenemy, pseudo-father figure are gone.

I'm beginning to wonder if KC has been lobbying for a secret twin (Shado/Mei style) so she can remain on the show.  After seeing the photos of her partying with Caity Lotz, I'm also beginning to wonder if she had any discussions with Caity about returning.  Well, Caity. I know there was that time where we had to do take after take after take because I couldn't stop smiling.  And there was that time that you were shot full of arrows, thrown at a dumpster, stuffed in a freezer, and tossed in a pine box so I could be Black Canary. And that time immediately following your death where I happily posted photos of them making a mold of my face for my new mask.  Look, I'm sorry about all of that.  But, could you PLEASE ask the producers if you can travel back in time and stop my death?  You owe me for digging you up and dragging your dead body to Nanda Poorbut!

I think she totally threw the Twin thing out there to find any way to stay on the show. I can't see the show going back in time to save anybody. And even if they do, I think that means LL will be on LoT - not Arrow. And honestly, for me that would be a toss up. I actually like KC's acting a whole lot better than I like Kendra's, plus she can just stay on the ship - maybe get her a stun gun. The writers have been able to turn Ray around, so perhaps they could do the same for LL. That being said if LoT wanted the BC, it probably just could have taken her this season. I think the most KC will ever be able to negotiate is perhaps a few random guest spots for flashbacks.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I think  LoT would be a better fit for KC than Arrow because it's more focused on events rather than storytelling among the main cast. She wouldn't even have to do that many stunts, Stein doesn't do any and Rip (I almost wrote Rory) does barely any.

 

I don't think how long someone has been dating is the biggest deciding factor.  I think it would be how they make you feel.  Would Donna being there in some capacity be a comfort to him?  Time isn't always the best way to determine that. 

Really, Quentin's and Dinah's friends should be there but that would cost money.

 

I've  been to too many funerals lately. For me, the people who give me the most comfort are those who knew the person, even more than my SO or close friends who didn't know him/her.  On the other hand, I've never been with my ex and his new SO.

 

I really want to stop harping on about this, but may I remind that Diggle and Felicity did attend Moira's burial?

That should have been a crowd scene, between Moira's friends, charity work and business associates, not to mention the QC employees.

 

It makes sense that Diggle and Felicity were there since they were both employed by Moira, especially Diggle.  Donna, on the other hand, barely knows Laurel at this point.

It is kinda strange though to think that it takes Laurel's death to make him reconsider things - I mean, what about Sara?  Granted, she is alive now, but still the action was there.

I would have thought that having to send William away would make Oliver side even more with Malcolm since MM is all about the blood bond and how he wants to be close to his daughter.  But maybe killing (?) on top of kidnapping William to hand him over to DD is the sign to even slow learner Oliver that MM is beyond redemption.

Edited by statsgirl
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Was it a photo of just Laurel?  If so, I'd like it to show up again one last time at her funeral.  Very symbolic.  

 

ETA: A specially made blown-up version of that same photo, obvi.  That one in his wallet is long gone.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Oliver hasn't been carrying a picture of Laurel around all this time, right?  (Please tell me hasn't been)

Did they show what happened to it the last time it surfaced?

Edited by ComicFan777
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

In response to people who think that LL might pop back on LoT or another show or even come back at some point in Arrow...

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcRLOOnUMAANbvm.jpg:large

 

If this rumor is true and that KC was fired for BTS stuff and not because the writers wanted to write off Laurel, then I don't see her ever coming back to any of Greg Berlanti's shows. And based on KCs history, I'm inclined to believe it's at least partially true. 

Edited by wonderwall
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Nobody find it curious that KC left AKs wife team and AK is no longer pushing for KC? He is focusing more on DP and girl from Supergirl.

 

Well he generally stopped vetting for Arrow the show in general so I don't really find it curious. 

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kismet

kismet

That photo has to resurface at least once before LL leaves us. Would laugh if Poppy finds it and then OQ buries it with Poppy in the fb in same episode he buries LL in the present.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

That photo has to resurface at least once before LL leaves us. Would laugh if Poppy finds it and then OQ buries it with Poppy in the fb in same episode he buries LL in the present.

They showed him with the picture in present day in S1. So, unless he dug her moldering corpse/the pic back up, I think no.

Considering how bad season 3 was, I'm not sure if I would've taken that as a compliment...the bar was pretty low. 

Congrats, you're the best shitty thing about the very shittiest season!

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

That photo has to resurface at least once before LL leaves us. Would laugh if Poppy finds it and then OQ buries it with Poppy in the fb in same episode he buries LL in the present.

I remember MG said on tumblr or Twitter that Oliver gave it back to LL off screen towards the end of S2, I don't remember which episode he was talking about. Anyway since it never happened on screen either they will pretend it never existed or Oliver could put it in the coffin, LOL

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Am I remembering wrong that Laurel was originally supposed to be in the crossover but they took her out for some reason?

 

My headcanon is that Oliver left the picture in the burnout plane, or maybe the cave, and then went back to get it just before he got picked up by the fishing boat (which Waller had sent).   But I wonder if the show will even remember the photo next year.

 

 

Oliver putting it in her coffin could actually really work for me. I don't even mean that as anti-LL. It'd be kind of nice...full circle.

I can't decide if that would work for me, or make me want to throw up given everything that's happened between them in the past four years.

 

Why do you hate us LoT fans so much?!

Hee, LoT is my show after Arrow.   I don't think she'd be on full time with Caity Lotz there, but I do think it would have been a better fit for the character than the Arrow Black Canary we've seen the past 2 seasons.  Also, since LoT has such a large cast, they could use her where she fits in better rather than having to create whole arcs for the character.

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cambridgeguy

cambridgeguy

 

I think  LoT would be a better fit for KC than Arrow because it's more focused on events rather than storytelling among the main cast. She wouldn't even have to do that many stunts, Stein doesn't do any and Rip (I almost wrote Rory) does barely any.

Those two don't fight much but that's because of how the role their characters fill.  Stein's either part of Firestorm or he's the brain while Rip is pretty much irreplaceable since the time ship doesn't work without him.  Plus Rip has his gun so there's no need for him to get into fisticuffs.  There is absolutely no reason for Laurel to be there if she isn't going to be mixing it up and they've already got the superior fighting Lance on the team (although she does seem to have ditched the potentially useful Canary cry). 

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Personally? I'm in favor of them having a wake where each member throws something Laurel gave them into into a grabage can and than they set the content of the can on fire Ala the Friends episode.. let us see that thing burn. Burn. Burn! [Edited by mod.]  (does that consider writing against fans?)... [MMCS: Yes. Stop it.]

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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kismet

kismet

Them naming the Diglet Sara (as her 1st name) was enough of a stretch the first time, I do not see why the Diggles need to name another baby Laurel. And frankly, I don't see anyone else picking the up the name mantle at this time since no one is pregnant.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

It was a big stretch since Dig didn't know Sara that well and Lyla never even met her but I guess they liked the idea of one Sara dying and one being born. It had little to do with the characters' relationship so since now there's no baby girl on the way I don't see it happening with Laurel.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

It was a big stretch since Dig didn't know Sara that well and Lyla never even met her but I guess they liked the idea of one Sara dying and one being born. It had little to do with the characters' relationship so since now there's no baby girl on the way I don't see it happening with Laurel.

 

Didn't Sara help Diggle in a mission or save his life or something...in arrow comic 2.5?  I thought that was the reason he named his daughter Sara.

 

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Didn't Sara help Diggle in a mission or save his life or something...in arrow comic 2.5?  I thought that was the reason he named his daughter Sara.

I can't say I remember..I read them but didn't pay that much attention tbh. On the show he just told LL they were naming the baby Sara and that they were never going to forget about her sister.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

I always got the impression she HATES! the KC-Black Canary portrayal on screen but seemed to like CL-Sara's portrayal.. so my guess about the tweet would be that now that she knows (or assumes) Laurel is being killed off she is more than happy to write a BOP episode for Arrow -- with Sara in the Black (white) Canary place.

 

 

ETA: Okay so Gail just responded to a respond I made (about being pretty sure was not a fan of Arrow's Laurel) to someone in the tweet thread with a "What?"

I shell update you.

So far I have been called Ignorant and a troll by Laurel fans.. lol, this is turning out to be a fun night after all.

 

ETA2: apparently I am also embracing myself and so I should sit down. I really should stay out of twitter.. it bring out the bitch in me :-P

Edited by foreverevolving
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spartan

spartan

I don't know why it matters anymore haha

The best Greg Berlanti can do is hire her to write an episode of E2 Black Canary/BoP which has a different actress playing BC. Which I highly, highly doubt. 

 

I don't know what asking Gail Simone to save Laurel Lance will do tbh and the scenes have already been filmed and the show has moved onto episode 20, so I doubt the show will re-write the plot in regards to who dies....

ok, you're glad laurel dies ,sometimes the rumors are false part, there may be truth, it must be an official confirmation, in the contrary case it does not prevent laurel can return in season 5, I dout they will leave the dead simply, even though they said that death is permanent

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