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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

I may be missing alot mainly because I can't make out much of what is on the sheet? But what is the significance of this sheet other than the filming schedule and location? I've seen it posted several times along with me posting it now!

 

CcXrEgHUcAAIf0W.jpg

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I may be missing alot mainly because I can't make out much of what is on the sheet? But what is the significance of this sheet other than the filming schedule and location?

 

There's no significance other than the location and schedule.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Looks like they are filming on the 'courthouse' steps. Can I put this down as more evidence for the grave? Courthouse filming and KC is pushing Dunkin Donuts in LA.

I honestly think it's the prosecution of DD that gets Laurel killed.

Malcom has another kid? Gross. No.

Edited by Chaser
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Yeah, I'm not up for watching 'Malcolm is a shitty father' take 3.

Take 4, really, since he "loves Oliver like a son [make me barf]."

 

Actually, and this is just me and I'm sure it's not fair, Barrowman's headcanon about MM, which IN NO WAY matches what we see onscreen, irritates me even more than KC's headcanon about LL. MM is NOT a misunderstood hero. He does NOT love Oliver. He does NOT love Thea. He does NOT care about SC. I really need JB to stop this crap, bc that and MM just sticking around perpetually is starting to make me dislike him nearly as much as I dislike MM.

Oh wait. After looking more closely at the panel, the age wouldn't be right for new girl to be MM's secret kid because he was with the cult before he met his wife and had Tommy.

Lazarus Pit. Heck, she could be "Lourdes." Someone pointed out, again, the vial around MM's neck. I think he has had some water for awhile now.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Belinea

Belinea

Couldn't they just kill MM? I know they love JB but to be a good storyteller, you should want to tell the best story and not a story based on how much you like the actor. Also I never like it if I have to watch stuff or read stuff in addition to a tv show. Just like with Vixen. If you haven't watched the animated show, how would you know about the connection. So am I supposed to read the MM comic in order to understand his character more if they don't tell it to me on the show?

 

I am still not 100% on board with LL. I read it all, I understand it all but I am just sitting here not fully believing it. It just cannot believe they'd get rid of her after all they did to try and make it work. It is not that I don't want to believe but I somehow still have a hard time actually believing it. 

 

I am curious at what point Curtis finds out because honestly Oliver isn't that careful anymore when it comes to telling him. They could just tell him next episode and he'd be on board. One more thing out of the way. 

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

So how do you think Malcolm is going to fight now without a hand?  Bionic hand?  Magic?  Sword/gun? 

How is he going live up to his rep as the Dark Archer now?  It seems like it would be an easy kill for Oliver when he decides to go with that route, but I would imagine it's supposed to be an epic showdown.  I wouldn't think he has any pull in HIVE yet to have anyone make him a bionic hand and his resources are gone.  How do you think the final fight is going to go down? 

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Genki

Genki

Have they really tried that hard to make BC work?

 

In S2 they took away a lot of the in-show support for her character. CNRI, Her best friend, Tommy. Sure she got a sister back and her own crucible arc but 1 outshone her character's trajectory, and the other was poorly received. And mostly she was kept out of the main narrative. They didn't even give her a big reveal about Oliver, Slade Wilson knocked on her door, told her "BTW Ollie's the Arrow" and was like "Laters...!". They even ticked off some GA/BC comic cannon and started moving FS into LI role (IMO).

 

In S3 they gave her the most comic-y (splashy),  least earn or subtle origin story. Killed off Sara, brought big name character Ted Grant, good for press but very little when compared to other journey's like Oliver's or Sara's. All the while firmly establishing Felicity as OTP for Oliver. And for the most part kept her pretty separate form Team Arrow.

 

In S4 Laurel is there....sure she is full time in the Arrow cave, but mostly background noise. They resurrected Sara for LoT, but the story reflected so poorly on LL and even her apartment set has been given to another character, there are way more scenes with Thea than LL. Whenever they need to include LL/BC "moments" the writing has been so slack and the stunts lacklustre.

 

In comparison to other characters, LL got nothing in S4:

 

  • Thea/Speedy getting quite a few big stunts and cool moves and her "Bloodlust/Evil Daddy/Campaign Manager Role
  • John's got his Brother, new "costume", Family support characters, Flash x-over
  • Felicity PT, New Bestie, Wheelchair arc, Dad introduction, Mom in multiple episodes
  • Lance DD stooge/spy, new LI that ties him more to the main characters

 

Frankly apart from a couple of staff writers and some S2 interviews from AK, I think they were always very aware of the problem that was LL in Arrow and have been writing around it for a long time. Most shows would have killed her off long before now so I do wonder what has changed BTS....

 

Anyway, maybe the FF is of benefit to us, maybe it was a way to get rid of LL and be "No backies!!", by clearly and firmly establishing in interviews that the death is a real consequence, needs to mean something, actual stakes for the masks.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I don't mind the comics.. they were published I assume by DC comics? if they and the EP's didn't support it as part of the show's canon they wouldn't have published it.

 

Someone in the link mentioned Nyssa might be Malcolm's daughter, but I think Nyssa is about the same age is Oliver and Tommy so that can't be correct.

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bijoux

bijoux

Here's what I'm getting from this. This is firmly pushing Malcolm into the batshit crazy territory. So far, the word was he snapped after Rebecca's death. But now it comes out that he was a member of a freking cult before he even met her. I welcome this development.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

If Nyssa finds out that Malcolm had an affair with her mother that long ago, she'd hate him even more.

 

I am still not 100% on board with LL. I read it all, I understand it all but I am just sitting here not fully believing it. It just cannot believe they'd get rid of her after all they did to try and make it work. It is not that I don't want to believe but I somehow still have a hard time actually believing it.

 

Morrigan2575:  He flat out told me in June before S2 that Arrow EPs wanted to get rid of KC after they filmed the pilot. They wanted to either recast or write Laurel out completely but the Network (CW or CBS, not sure) wouldn't let them.

 

If it's true that couldn't get rid of her, it explains why they tried everything including the kitchen sink to make the character work.  There was the Tommy romance/triangle until they needed to fridge Tommy for Oliver, the addiction arc which should have been in KC's acting wheelhouse, the relationship with Quentin, killing Sara so that she could take on the Black Canary mantle (and I agree, weren't any plans to bring Sara back until they needed her for LoT), tried her out as "the justice you can't run from", used her to bring Sara back and then put her in the background for the rest of this season.  They've tried her as a love interest, drama storyline, superhero and spear carrier but nothing has really clicked with the audience as a whole.

 

Given that they want a big death this season to wipe away everyone surviving the past two seasons, she the most expendable.

 

So how do you think Malcolm is going to fight now without a hand?  Bionic hand?  Magic?  Sword/gun?

I want him to go to Palmer Tech or maybe kidnap Curtis to make him a bionic one when he hears that Curtis has helped Felicity walk.  Why not go completely BSC?

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Scribbles

Scribbles

Just a thought but....everyone questions why Oliver didn't know to be on the look out after Malcolm threatened.  What if the Malcolm v Oliver fight was staged by the two and the hand was a ruse, all to get the lotus.  When Nyssa destroyed the ring, Malcolm didn't get what he expected to get from the deal with Oliver.  Oliver assumes all is fine between them, but Malcolm sees it differently and goes to Darhk to get the power he lost from the LOA disbanding.  So Oliver goes on with no reason to think Malcolm is hostile to him, until the report that the man who kidnapped William had one hand.  This allows Malcolm to still have a hand and explains why Oliver was so clueless about a threat pending for his son.

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kismet

kismet

Here's what I'm getting from this. This is firmly pushing Malcolm into the batshit crazy territory. So far, the word was he snapped after Rebecca's death. But now it comes out that he was a member of a freking cult before he even met her. I welcome this development.

It sort of reminds me of ALIAS and how Sloane got involved in a special project when he was young that exposed him to Rimbaldi and hence moving fwd he developed a BSC obsession. I too think this cult thing might be a welcome development. If they're gonna keep JB on the show, then let's give him some stuff backstory to work with. Secret cults with secret missions... sounds right up JB's ally.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Just a thought but....everyone questions why Oliver didn't know to be on the look out after Malcolm threatened.  What if the Malcolm v Oliver fight was staged by the two and the hand was a ruse, all to get the lotus.  When Nyssa destroyed the ring, Malcolm didn't get what he expected to get from the deal with Oliver.  Oliver assumes all is fine between them, but Malcolm sees it differently and goes to Darhk to get the power he lost from the LOA disbanding.  So Oliver goes on with no reason to think Malcolm is hostile to him, until the report that the man who kidnapped William had one hand.  This allows Malcolm to still have a hand and explains why Oliver was so clueless about a threat pending for his son.

 

The problem would be that it would mean that he once again went rogue and made a deal with MM behind Team Arrow's backs. And this season, there would be no reason for keeping that secret from them (like, to convince Ra's he was fully committed to the League) or making the deal without talking to them about it (like working with Malcolm in S3 when he was still making unilateral calls all the time). At the time the deal would have been struck, MM was still trying to be OQ's ally, so he hadn't threatened William or tried to use him as leverage, which would have been the only logical way Oliver would have entered into a secret plan with him. So I think we're just supposed to not think very hard about why Oliver didn't immediately see MM as a threat to William, as with so many things connected to the Secret Kid, because there's no logical reason for it, only plot-necessary reasons.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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kismet

kismet

So regarding that new casting. Apparently Malcolm was part of a cult called the Hidden. You can see it in the Dark Archer comics apparently

http://oliverdant.tumblr.com/post/140176732283/the-dark-archer-a-must-read-spoilers-below

 

Thanks for the info... I'm not sure if the new character will be MM's daughter or not. I would not be surprised if she is someone's secret daughter and therefore a secret sibling to someone on TA. Regardless, I do wonder if she will link back to his time in the secret cult.

For awhile I was sure that someone on these shows had an incest paraphilia, now I guess it's all about secret kids.

It's like a cross between Oprah & Jerry Springer.... "you get a secret kid... you get a secret kid... who's the baby Daddy?... who's secretly related to who... you get a secret kid"

 

I still do think someone in the writers room has a secret mini-obsession with sexual relationships overlapping and crossing social lines. Even by soap opera standards, there are a lot of people sleeping amongst the same family trees a lot on ARROW.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Wait though, if this girl were supposed to be Malcolm's daughter who was conceived before he met Rebecca? Then she would be older than Tommy. And I don't see why they'd hire a 20 year old actress and then just be like, "Oh, well, she used to bathe in the Lazarus Pit, see," when they could just hire an actress who was more age-appropriate instead. Unless the idea is that he reunited with this Lourdes woman at some point after he joined the League? (Sorry if I missed this in the speculation--I caught up on a lot today and might have missed something.)

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kismet

kismet

Just a thought but....everyone questions why Oliver didn't know to be on the look out after Malcolm threatened.  What if the Malcolm v Oliver fight was staged by the two and the hand was a ruse, all to get the lotus.  When Nyssa destroyed the ring, Malcolm didn't get what he expected to get from the deal with Oliver.  Oliver assumes all is fine between them, but Malcolm sees it differently and goes to Darhk to get the power he lost from the LOA disbanding.  So Oliver goes on with no reason to think Malcolm is hostile to him, until the report that the man who kidnapped William had one hand.  This allows Malcolm to still have a hand and explains why Oliver was so clueless about a threat pending for his son.

That might have worked if they hadn't shown MM threatening OQ with the knowledge of his son. That was just dumb writing and another example of stupid holes related to the BMD. I agree with @CarrieAnn that the show does not want us to think or look too hard at stories related to the secret kid because we'll see most of it is all for plot, with no logical explanation.

 

Why would any writers on TV shows reveal to the audience and the main character that the former supervillian who is majorly pissed also knows about the secret kid that is being set-up to stall a relationship? It was just stupid storytelling. Have MM know about the kid, but don't have him reveal that info to OQ. It really made OQ look dumb, that he didn't think MM would do something bad with that information. MM has proven he doesn't really care about crossing boundaries. Which is what made him so good and expandable for the LoA infiltration. OQ pairing up with MM to infiltrate and destroy LoA from the inside at least make logical and tactical sense. OQ knowing the MM knows about W and OQ doing absolutely nothing about it makes no logical sense at all, especially after W goes missing. MM should have been on OQ's shortlist.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Speaking of secret siblings...I'm kinda hoping that Brie Larvan is Felicity's secret half-sister and that's why she hates her so much...but then again, maybe not because they suck at writing sister relationships. 

Edited by ComicFan777
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Angel12d

Angel12d

Lol, seriously? Another secret kid of Malcolm's? Another name? Fuck this show. Now I'm certain I won't return even if LL really dies, because this is too ridiculous. Such a soap opera.

 

I don't think we know for sure that it is a secret kid of Malcolm's? I thought everyone was just speculating tbh. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Speaking of secret siblings...I'm kinda hoping that Brie Larvan is Felicity's secret half-sister and that's why she hates her so much...but then again, maybe not because they suck at writing sister relationships.

That would actually make sense. However i have the feeling that this will be the same as her father working for HIVE. They don't want to duplicate stories. If Nyssa has a secret half sister then Felicity can't.

Assuming "Chrissy" is Nyssa's neice

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I thought, based on the pics from the funeral (actresses side by side, look very much alike) that the new girl is Nyssa's 1/2 sister Talia. Why do people think she is Malcolm's daughter?

Scroll back to Velocity's post about the Dark Archer comic (or check out the posts in the Comics thread)
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way2interested

way2interested

Speaking of secret siblings...I'm kinda hoping that Brie Larvan is Felicity's secret half-sister and that's why she hates her so much...but then again, maybe not because they suck at writing sister relationships. 

 

The main reason that I wouldn't want this to be so is that at this point I feel there are too many family connections this season, even if I agree it would make some sense. I would at least hope they still give a reason why she's back, even though I guess at this point it would just be her wanting revenge on Felicity for beating her a year ago, and attacking Felicity, since I'm guessing the armored guy fighting Oliver in Felicity's office is one of the robot guys who attacked her in Flash season zero? 

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

charlotteross2Vancouver, British Columbia

charlotteross2Back in town... #arrow

 

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/704479623216640000

 

This just got a little bit more interesting. Donna is back while they are filming 4x19 maybe she is there for emotional support for Lance...well played Arrow so far well played. But still not Laurel right. I need to find the filming days for this episode again. Hopes aren't fading yet!

 

I guess Laurel watch is now activated huh? Which is still going to throw things off because she could be back just to finish up a scene or something. Again so far I must say well played again to Arrow. I'm sure they will slip up some how (fingers crossed lol)!

 

11899441_1057301160978649_1757424552_n.j

Edited by Ann Mack
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Damn it, that tells us nothing! LOL. Donna could either be there because her boyfriend died or she could be there to support him after his daughter died. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Shhhhhhhhhh let us all be optimistic ;)

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Angel12d

Angel12d

Shhhhhhhhhh let us all be optimistic ;)

 

I'm trying to shield you from the pain of crushing disappointment! Let me help you! LOL.

 

Seriously though, I really don't know what to believe anymore. You know what I think but I can't deny how it looks either.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Well it's just interesting if she's going to be doing the animated Vixen season two, but she's fired on Arrow.  And other people have said that MG and KC have connections - did I read she's friends with his wife?  I mean, sure KC could just graciously accept that Laurel's been written out, but it just made me wonder if she won't appear again and well, Barry did just make a speech about reopening the breaches and stopping Zoom on Earth 2.  It just made me wonder if they ultimately decided the best way to "fix" the Laurel character was to replace her with an entirely different version of Laurel.

Didn't the producers rule out an AU cheat like this early on in interviews?

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