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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I am surprised they would kill Laurel rather than have her leave like Roy.

 

I am not surprised one bit they will kill her unlike Roy, Roy- as we have seen in his guest appearance - actually adds something to the show and the team all despite CH "okay" acting skills (he is still a better actor - imo- than KC).

 

I am disgusted that Malcolm is probably responsible.

 

I will LOL if it is Malcolm who kills her, I am actually fine with it. I rather have Malcolm than Laurel on the show.. and if that means it helps move Malcolm in his full on evil arc.. so be it.

 

I am NOT surprised that if they wanted to kill a "mask" - they would pick her.

 

I am NOT sorry because they have written her character wrong from the start.

 

I wanna blame the writing the show isn't exactly ER or Mad Men level writing, but at the end of the day all of the cast, except KC (and some guest stars here and there) have been able to raise above the cheesy writing and deliver great performance!

So while the writing isn't great, I really do blame 1) the casting and EP's for casting KC & 2) KC for not working harder to work with the material (alot of it I think is her own personal narrative which stopped matching the show narrative somewhere early on in S01)

 

I DO think it will improve the show just because they won't be trying to "fit" a character in that just doesn't "fit."

 

I do feel a little bad for the actress, but when I think of her talking about Laurel and Oliver being soulmates after four years of the show making them one of the most toxic pairings I have ever seen - I get over it.

 

If it's her - I wish KC very well on her next project.

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Carrie Ann
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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

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calliope1975

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Coop33

I knew something big had happened when I logged on to see five new pages. Holy cow. 

 

Honestly, I think the only thing holding me back from being 100% sure that Laurel is in the grave is that is just seems too good to be true, but if I had to put money on it, I think I'd bet on Laurel now. I'll be at HVFF in Chicago and this could make things very interesting, especially if KC actually keeps the commitment.

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Chaser

Chaser

Oh, okay, I hadn't read his tweets about waiting for confirmation. I thought he already knew for certain.

I had read your posts about him confirming the wheelchair, but had no idea about all that other stuff. Wow. Though, he has been saying all kinds of stuff about EBR, I don't know why we should believe some things and not others. Not doubting your input, just that we have seen before how his bias may color some of the things he says (not talking about the hard facts like the wheelchair arc or other things he confirmed).

Anyway, I still don't believe it because it would be too good to be true. Like, I'd expect she's be resurrected in S5 or some other shit, haha.

In terms of spoilers, I would say that CG hasn't given anyone a reason to doubt him. For all his talk he seems to take pride in his info.

As for the personal stuff, for all his talk about how the cast hates EBR there has been zero indication from the cast to support that. Esp considering the praise SA and DR has put out on EBR at Cons. The same can't be said for KC. I don't think everybody hates her and there is all this discord, but I can believe things aren't as warm and friendly.

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looptab

looptab

In terms of spoilers, I would say that CG hasn't given anyone a reason to doubt him. For all his talk he seems to take pride in his info.

As for the personal stuff, for all his talk about how the cast hates EBR there has been zero indication from the cast to support that. Esp considering the praise SA and DR has put out on EBR at Cons. The same can't be said for KC. I don't think everybody hates her and there is all this discord, but I can believe things aren't as warm and friendly.

 Has he actually been saying that the cast hates EBR? Gah I need to get on Twitter, I miss all the good stuff.

 

As for the spoilers, it's true that we have no reason not to trust him. But, IDK, there are other factors at play. What if they were aware that he has been spoiling all their major twists this past 3 years and decided to put an end to it? What if they purposely got him wrong information? I don't take disappointment well, haha. I'll start believing she is dead after next year's crossover, probably :)

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Belinea

Belinea

 Has he actually been saying that the cast hates EBR? Gah I need to get on Twitter, I miss all the good stuff.

I somehow choose not to believe that. She hangs out with alot of them. In Paris DR was kissing her on the forhead, I doubt you'd do that if you hate someone (even secretly) I however believe that he hates EBR with passion. 

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steeledwithakiss

steeledwithakiss

In terms of spoilers, I would say that CG hasn't given anyone a reason to doubt him. For all his talk he seems to take pride in his info.

As for the personal stuff, for all his talk about how the cast hates EBR there has been zero indication from the cast to support that. Esp considering the praise SA and DR has put out on EBR at Cons. The same can't be said for KC. I don't think everybody hates her and there is all this discord, but I can believe things aren't as warm and friendly.

After seeing the pictures/rumors on twitter I'm actually, for the first time in such a long time, excited about the show, it actually made me dust off my account here. I hope I won't be disappointed.

I don't think CG ever said the cast hated EBR, just that he personally hates her and Felicity. Anyways, I don't think KC was fired, isn't she AK's wife business partner? My guess is her contract ended and/or they promised her another show/project to soften the blow.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

In terms of spoilers, I would say that CG hasn't given anyone a reason to doubt him. For all his talk he seems to take pride in his info.

As for the personal stuff, for all his talk about how the cast hates EBR there has been zero indication from the cast to support that. Esp considering the praise SA and DR has put out on EBR at Cons. The same can't be said for KC. I don't think everybody hates her and there is all this discord, but I can believe things aren't as warm and friendly.

Yeah, I don't doubt that he has sources that give him accurate plot spoilers. It's his spin on BTS stuff that I find hard to believe. He can say all he wants about EBR, but she always gets praised by guest starring actors, who have no reason to single her out for positive attention unless it's true. Edited by lemotomato
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

(edited)

Has he actually been saying that the cast hates EBR? Gah I need to get on Twitter, I miss all the good stuff.

As for the spoilers, it's true that we have no reason not to trust him. But, IDK, there are other factors at play. What if they were aware that he has been spoiling all their major twists this past 3 years and decided to put an end to it? What if they purposely got him wrong information? I don't take disappointment well, haha. I'll start believing she is dead after next year's crossover, probably :)

Yup. He also said she is rude to fans and full of herself, LOL. He seems to have quite a bit of anger towards her after she refused that autograph, while before he used to say nice things about her. But he also seems quite dismissive of women in general anyway.

It's kinda funny though since all the people who meet her on set or around Vancouver always say how nice and sweet she is. Not to mention co stars and guest stars. She is the one who always gets praises from everyone, even those who worked briefly on the show.

Even his friend Ken mocked him for blaming everything on EBR last week, LOL

Edited by Midnight Lullaby
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catrox14

catrox14

This is crazy.

 

I'm starting to wonder if this isn't the most ingenious PR move in the history of TV. I just can't figure out from WHO exactly. I feel like it's an episode of DIRT (if anyone remembers that show)

 

I mean we are certainly talking.  It's all over Twitter. Keeps Arrow in the viewers mind, throughout the hiatus.  And we won't know anything until the episode airs or someone writes a tell all book LOL.

 

--The CG might be making a lot of assumptions, because of things he hears which may or may not be true things from the crew.

 

--KC, if she did get fired, could have hired someone to take the pics and put it out there with the caption and some folder label, which as we've already seen made the Arrow PTB look like dicks for letting it get out that she was fired.

 

--TPB didn't fire KC, Laurel isn't being killed but all pap pics are implying she is which is more PR for the show, good or bad.

 

It's entertaining that's for sure!

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Serena

Serena

As for MG's tumblr response, I don't think it necessarily reflects badly on KC. Both Colin Donnell and Susanna Thompson were written out, and as far as I know neither of them asked to leave. But I don't think anyone thinks it was anything more than a storyline choice. It doesn't have to be any more than that for KC, paparazzi comments aside. I think it was probably just a poor attempt by MG to deflect attention from who it actually is.

Yeah, this. Actors get written out for two reasons, either they ask to leave (this may include being so unpleasant on set that it's impossible for the producers to keep them on) or it's a simple storyline decision. Other tv producers looking to hire Katie can understand "no longer on the show because of a storyline decision", especially in this age where anyone can die. They would be less understanding of "this actress asked to leave" because they would wonder: what if I hire her, and then she does the same thing to me and asks to leave? That would mean I have to rewrite my show and change all my plans.

Actors who don't ask to leave and have been simply written out for storyline decisions get hired all the time, like Colin O'Donnel. However, if you get a reputation as "difficult", you only get hired if the producers think you're worth the risk. With a Julianna Marguiles, I can see someone taking the risk. With a Katie Cassidy? I don't know, especially since she's about to age out of CW roles.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

This is crazy.

 

I'm starting to wonder if this isn't the most ingenious PR move in the history of TV. I just can't figure out from WHO exactly. I feel like it's an episode of DIRT (if anyone remembers that show)

Is that show worth watching? I actually like Courteney Cox.

 

I don't think it's a fakeout. I do have some experience with them - I remember Lost doing it a few times, some other shows. It's usually just different shots for some reveals, stuff like that. This doesn't seem like it. Of course, time flows, so maybe it's new. But they were very obvious with Moira (less so with Sara, her death felt inevitable, but we didn't expect it to be so soon), and of course Tommy was pretty unexpected (but Arrow didn't have such a big fandom in those days).

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catrox14

catrox14

 

 

Is that show worth watching? I actually like Courteney Cox.

 

I don't think it's a fakeout. I do have some experience with them - I remember Lost doing it a few times, some other shows. It's usually just different shots for some reveals, stuff like that. This doesn't seem like it. Of course, time flows, so maybe it's new. But they were very obvious with Moira (less so with Sara, her death felt inevitable, but we didn't expect it to be so soon), and of course Tommy was pretty unexpected (but Arrow didn't have such a big fandom in those days).

 

 

DIRT was a hoot IMO. It had some absurd plot lines but overall I liked it.  You just have to take it for what it is.  I don't know how much of what they featured in the the show was based on the reality of PR and outlets like TMZ but who knows. It was entertaining IMO.

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spartan

spartan

(edited)

SA has not seen in the photos, but OLIVER was there at the FF in ep.10 and Felicity was waiting in a limousine, it makes me think that maybe KC also filmed in present with them.
That is why I say you waiting for confirmation, she is leaving arrow, I'm sure she will thank his fans on twitter before the official confirmation, as did Colton Haynes, especially as photos came out.

Edited by spartan
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Actors always say that, this is the best cast, everyone gets along, we're like family. My personal favorite are the one's I've heard lately that actually acknowledge that every actor says it and, then add but, this time it's really true. Which of course implies that in most cases it's not AND that the average audience has actually picked up on the sterotypical Hollywood bullshit line.

Personally I think DR's comments at cons not to mention KC's own actions at cons are more telling than the standard Hollywood line, JMHO.

DR's impression of KC and her face not moving was shockingly vicious, and while true, is not something I believe he'd say about a friend, even a friend whose face really doesn't move. 

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

Having taken a closer look at the pictures this morning, I'm almost 100 percent convinced that she's the one who's getting killed off. I am going to be really disappointed if it doesn't happen now--my hopes are up.

Not at all Canadagraphs is very careful about what he confirms and what he releases. He's a Dbag but he won't release anything that he can't confirm/proove.

As I mentioned awhile back when we first learned of Felicity being in the wheelchair up to 414 (and I put together that Canadagraphs=Y2John on IMDb) Canadagraphs has had information since S1. He flat out told me in June before S2 that Arrow EPs wanted to get rid of KC after they filmed the pilot. They wanted to either recast or write Laurel out completely but the Network (CW or CBS, not sure) wouldn't let them. He also told me that KC was a problem on set and the crew didn't like her. There's also the other pap (Ken Pursuit i think) who got into a Twitter fight with a KC fan back in S2 and commented that she was lucky to still have a job.

You can believe or not believe the info, label it as rumors, gossip, or the paps being haters but, this information has been out there for a long while. The guy maybe a huge Dbag but he's been right on everything he's released, I have been given no reason to doubt him. The closest he's come to being wrong was when he said Felicity was still having hallucinations in 414 when that turned out to be a one episode thing.

If this is true--and I appreciate that you added the disclaimer that while he is a dbag, he isn't one to spread unconfirmed rumors--the cavalcade of alternative love interests that were being tested as early as episode 2 and bringing Caity Lotz in during the second season and then killing her off makes a weird kind of sense. If Katie was exhibiting bad behavior in season one, they may have put her on "probation" for season two. I assume she reformed, but it still didn't make the Laurel/Black Canary character a success. Oddly, this makes so much sense based on what was happening on screen.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

SA was not in the photos but he was there. My guess is Oliver didn't go to the funeral and SA just filmed his solo at the grave.

Broke ass CW is not going to okay the show wasting time and therefore money just to fool people. That is exactly what they would be doing. They would need to film a bunch of present day scenes with Lance and come back and film a bunch of present day scenes with Laurel. Depending on whose day it is they would need to send out crew plants to mention it was so and sos last day on set. They would also need to find CGs source and convince them to leak false info. I imagine they would need to pay the source and probably a decent amount because CG probably has some incentives for his sources.

I really really don't blame anyone for not believing it, but the CW doesn't get this creative or have that kind of money. It gives them way too much credit.

Edited by Chaser
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Yeah, Oliver doesn't do Funerals. He's probably hiding in yet another unknown lair or in the limo. Probably waiting for everyone to clear out so he can have a moment alone.

As for the show/network spreading misinformation, the enitre plot of The Force Awakens leaked 15 months before the movie opened. The script for Star Wars VIII has already leaked. If Disney can't keep (spoiler for The Force Awakens)

Han Solo's death

a secret I find it hard to believe that CW/Arrow could do something so industrious.

Don't even get me started on the Spoiling The Dead fans who have an entire network of sources that have nailed everything about that show, including all of the deaths. Shit like this gets out even when the producers do their best to hide it.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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spartan

spartan

People there confirmed SA was filming though even if there are no pics. He even stopped to sign autographs after filming.

Maybe he isn't going to be at the funeral and he was there to film the scene we partially saw in the flash forward, but he was there.

in fact, can be kc filmed his scene with this but it there's no photo, it is long hours of filming, lol,

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Yeah, this. Actors get written out for two reasons, either they ask to leave (this may include being so unpleasant on set that it's impossible for the producers to keep them on) or it's a simple storyline decision. Other tv producers looking to hire Katie can understand "no longer on the show because of a storyline decision", especially in this age where anyone can die. They would be less understanding of "this actress asked to leave" because they would wonder: what if I hire her, and then she does the same thing to me and asks to leave? That would mean I have to rewrite my show and change all my plans.

Actors who don't ask to leave and have been simply written out for storyline decisions get hired all the time, like Colin O'Donnel. However, if you get a reputation as "difficult", you only get hired if the producers think you're worth the risk. With a Julianna Marguiles, I can see someone taking the risk. With a Katie Cassidy? I don't know, especially since she's about to age out of CW roles.

 

Sorry I have to correct you there - seeing as I was a fan of ER at the time: if I remember correctly Julianna Margulies didn't asked to leave ER! her contract was up at the end of the 6th season (again to my recollection from past interviews), she was offered (and this has been confirmed by both her and the producers) to remain on two more seasons for a 27mil paycheck (which would have made her the highest paying woman or actor on TV at the time), but she said she felt that there wasn't really any more story-arc for her character (she's not half wrong, she was extremely under-utilized during her last season, and it appeared the writers simply didn't know what to do with her without Clooney's "Doug Ross" around- which is a problem all to itself) so she chose not to take the deal and instead leave the show.

 

Which is another reason why characters can be written up: contracts expiring and the actors chooses not to renew it.

 

Personally: she did wisely. out of all the ER cast, except for clooney and maybe Wyle too, her career is the most thriving one!

Edited by foreverevolving
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

in fact, can be kc filmed his scene with this but it there's no photo, it is long hours of filming, lol,

So LL wasn't at her dad funeral? But PB is present in both the FBs funeral and the present time funeral so it can't be his. Unless you are saying it's Oliver's funeral and Laurel wasn't attending I don't see how it makes sense. Because we have confirmation of who was filming the present day funeral. It's irrelevant what SA was filming since he isn't a option for the grave. It's PB in two different outfits and KC only in her FBs outfit that indicates her.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

I just had another thought as to why they might not have locked down the set the way you'd expect for such a big reveal: this show has traditionally liked to spoil info to get people talking before, building anticipation, rather than having the surprise shocking moments that people talk about after the show has aired. This would be in keeping with their pattern.

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Chaser

Chaser

in fact, can be kc filmed his scene with this but it there's no photo, it is long hours of filming, lol,

Basically Laurel would rather hang out with Oliver instead of paying respect to her father or comforting her mother?

Since they are paralleling Sara's funeral, one party has to have been there for both.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Yup. He also said she is rude to fans and full of herself, LOL. He seems to have quite a bit of anger towards her after she refused that autograph, while before he used to say nice things about her. But he also seems quite dismissive of women in general anyway.

It's kinda funny though since all the people who meet her on set or around Vancouver always say how nice and sweet she is. Not to mention co stars and guest stars. She is the one who always gets praises from everyone, even those who worked briefly on the show.

Even his friend Ken mocked him for blaming everything on EBR last week, LOL

Colton Haynes is, by all indications, one of her best friends. No way "the cast" hates her. I can more or less believe she's not total besties with SA/DR...they're a lot older than she is. Doesn't mean they don't like each other, but they are at very different places and might not have a huge amount to talk about.

 

Re her being a bitch to randos, eff that. I am IRL perfectly polite, and I go out of my way to help people and animals, but if I constantly had strangers and rando dudes in my face wanting me to sign crap or whatever, I PROMISE I would lash out occasionally. Saying that means she's awful (if she did lash out) is ridiculous...actually, dude, it means that YOU are awful and should get out of people's faces.

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Trini

Trini

This is crazy.

 

--The CG might be making a lot of assumptions, because of things he hears which may or may not be true things from the crew.

 

 

This.

They're not killing off two Canaries within two seasons.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Basically Laurel would rather hang out with Oliver instead of paying respect to her father or comforting her mother?

Since they are paralleling Sara's funeral, one party has to have been there for both.

Well Lance very clearly is since we saw the pics of PB in a different outfit and without the FB wig, LOL

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spartan

spartan

So LL wasn't at her dad funeral? But PB is present in both the FBs funeral and the present time funeral so it can't be his. Unless you are saying it's Oliver's funeral and Laurel wasn't attending I don't see how it makes sense. Because we have confirmation of who was filming the present day funeral. It's irrelevant what SA was filming since he isn't a option for the grave. It's PB in two different outfits and KC only in her FBs outfit that indicates her.

I know, I just wanted to say that we did not all pictures that could have had his laurel in a scene in present but that photographers could not have her. maybe laurel is really grave.

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Serena

Serena

(edited)

Sorry I have to correct you there - seeing as I was a fan of ER at the time: Julianna Margulies NEVER asked to leave ER! her contract was up at the end of the 6th season (to my recollection), she was offered (and this has been confirmed by both her and the producers) to remain for two more seasons in exchange for a nice paycheck (which would have made her the highest paying woman on TV at the time), but she said she felt that there wasn't really any more story-arc for her character (she's not half wrong, she was extremely under-utilized during her last season, and it appeared the writers simply didn't know what to do with her without Clooney's "Doug Ross" around- which is a problem all to itself) so she chose not to take the deal and leave the show.

That's not what I said. I didn't watch ER and know nothing about what JM did or didn't ask. But Julianna has a reputation as "difficult" now, from the set of the Good Wife. However, she's also an Emmy winning actress. That means another producer may take the risk of hiring her again, thinking it may be worth the critical acclaim. Katie, however, doesn't have the same kind of critical reception JM has, so all things being equal (a reputation as "difficult" on set), a producer wouldn't have the same incentive to hire her.

 

If this is a flashback to Sara's funeral, where are Quentin and AK?

Edited by Serena
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

This.

They're not killing off two Canaries within two seasons.

 

I hadn't really thought of that perspective. 

 

OH here's a thought. IF they did fire KC but they want Black Canary and want Sara to remain the White Canary on LoT they could make Nyssa the new Black Canary. She would do it to honor Laurel...and hey....she's already married to Oliver, technically.  Hell she could even rename herself Dinah Lance since she disbanded the LoA she doesn't have a job anymore and quit being Ra's Al Ghul....and Katrina Law's part was recast in the pilot she did....

 

Hmmm...holy crap. I might have just convinced myself that Laurel could be in the grave.  

Edited by catrox14
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Mrs. de Winter

Mrs. de Winter

So if that is Sara's funeral - where are her parents?  Shouldn't they be in the front row? 

 

While it certainly seems they filmed two funerals, there are only scenes from one funeral.  Which doesn't make sense to me.  If you are a pap trying to sell photos, wouldn't photos with multiple present day actors at the present day funeral be better than a shot of a flashback funeral with only one cast member? 

 

I get that the rest of the cast is there in black - but does it cost more to have them milling around the set (with the exception of KL and the new female)? 

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

That's not what I said. I didn't watch ER and know nothing about what JM did or didn't ask. But Julianna has a reputation as "difficult" now, from the set of the Good Wife. However, she's also an Emmy winning actress. That means another producer may take the risk of hiring her again, thinking it may be worth the critical acclaim. Katie, however, doesn't have the same kind of critical reception JM has, so all things being equal (a reputation as "difficult" on set), a producer wouldn't have the same incentive to hire her.

 

If this is a flashback to Sara's funeral, where are Quentin and AK?

Oh.. my apologies than! I thought you were talking about the reason for leaving.

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catrox14

catrox14

Dude probably got that from us! LOL.  He could have guessed it just like we did. 

 

Sorry even there is a way for the show to have a Black Canary again I still am super dubious they would leak killing off Laurel. 

 

  Do the PTB really think that Laurel's death would be so traumatic for the audience that they have to brace us for it by leaking set pics and spoiling it? I don't think it would be THAT shocking if she died and it's been speculated about before.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

I still think that scene/photo of the two graves and Laurel walking up to them will be Oliver and Robert's funeral. They are the only ones who we have seen to have side-by-side graves. I'm not sure why they would be flashing back to Oliver's funeral, Sara's funeral, and then Laurel's funeral (if she is the one that dies). Unless it has to do with Thea maybe? 

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