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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Someone on tumblr mentioned Oliver giving Felicity his journal as a sign of trust. That would work for me.

 

Oooh. I'm down for that.

 

I just mentioned it to someone on Tumblr, but yeah, there needs to be a gesture. In Berlanti parlance: Oliver needs to buy Felicity a wall.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Oooh. I'm down for that.

 

I just mentioned it to someone on Tumblr, but yeah, there needs to be a gesture. In Berlanti parlance: Oliver needs to buy Felicity a wall.

 

Hmm, I see Oliver in the Joey role here. Felicity's laid out her Pacey heart, now Oliver needs to drop everything and get on the boat for the summer. Or something like that. But I do think there needs to be some sort of grand gesture or something to show he finally gets through his thick head why his behavior wasn't okay.

 

What I can't figure out is if the show actually thinks he was wrong. Did/will anyone take Felicity's side? I've just heard a bunch of crap of how Oliver was in an impossible situation which, as has been pointed out in so many different ways here, is complete crap. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

What I can't figure out is if the show actually thinks he was wrong. Did/will anyone take Felicity's side? I've just heard a bunch of crap of how Oliver was in an impossible situation which, as has been pointed out in so many different ways here, is complete crap.

I got the sense that the show didn't think he was wrong, and that the situation truly was impossible. Even Felicity said so, so I don't think there's any *side* to take here with the way they've written it. They did have her point out that Oliver is still keeping her in the dark about things even when he doesn't have to (like telling her about his decision about William - which I don't think she wanted a say in, just wanted knowledge of before it was over and done with, and for him to be open with her about his feelings so she could help him through it), so I think that's something that they're going to address and Oliver's going to work on to a probably unsatisfying conclusion, haha.

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looptab

looptab

Also, is Oliver whining about his relationship to Laurel in that promo? Is this what happens - break up Olicity and get O/L scenes? No thank you goodbye.

 

I'm not at all okay with that. Please no.

 

Laurel is using her Canary Cry in the Arrowcave because it's a primal shout of grief over the potential loss of her soul mate. (Yes, that's sarcasm.)

You jest, but it's not that far off, haha.

 

Reading you guys' live-comments on the episode cracked me up. My exact same reactions :) 

I have no idea what they are doing next episode, or the rest of the season, or with Malcolm. Not really looking forward to it.

 

Re: the journal, the thought of him giving it to her has crossed my mind ever since it was obvious we were headed for a break-up, so that would be cool with me.

 

Question: we all know people don't include Laurel in the grave speculations because comics, but, if she really is the one dying, do you think that there would be backlash?

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Coop33

Coop33

What I can't figure out is if the show actually thinks he was wrong. Did/will anyone take Felicity's side? I've just heard a bunch of crap of how Oliver was in an impossible situation which, as has been pointed out in so many different ways here, is complete crap. 

 

My biggest concern is that instead of seeing Oliver work to earn Felicity's trust back, we're instead going to see people like Diggle talk to Felicity and explain why they think Oliver was right to keep William from her, resulting in her eventually thinking that she was wrong and forgiving him. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
Question: we all know people don't include Laurel in the grave speculations because comics, but, if she really is the one dying, do you think that there would be backlash?

 

Yes. And there's one piece of criticism that I will agree with in the abstract sense, which is that superhero media is willing to kill lady superheroes, but dudebro superheroes never never ever die ever. And Laurel dying gives two men -- Quentin and Oliver -- a whole lot of story, which fits the Women in Refrigerators trope.

 

However. I don't think the backlash will be as big as the backlash they got for Sara, for example. Because there's gonna be A HUGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE celebrating Laurel's death.

 

Quentin dying probably gets them zero backlash, tho. It also probably gets them zero praise for the kill. It'll be the loudest collective "oh well, duh" ever heard.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Chaser

Chaser

Quentin would get backlash, but not so much for his death but the fact that it is the easiest route to take. I'm not quite sure what Thea's death would inspire. It's a mask and Oliver's only family, so it isn't a cop-out. She seems to be middle of the road in terms of popularity so I don't think it would be that vocal. 

 

Felicity, Diggle or Laurel would get the biggest backlash.  I don't the idea of them killing another female character, but story-wise it makes the most sense. Even in terms of cast make-up. Team Arrow currently consists of 2 Guys and 3 Girls. If you kill Diggle, that leaves Oliver with Felicity/Thea/Laurel in the Lair. Doesn't work for me at all. Also, I have more of a problem with the killing the only POC member of the cast than killing another female character.

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HJCougar

HJCougar

My biggest concern is that instead of seeing Oliver work to earn Felicity's trust back, we're instead going to see people like Diggle talk to Felicity and explain why they think Oliver was right to keep William from her, resulting in her eventually thinking that she was wrong and forgiving him. 

I'm sure people will try to talk Felicity around, but Felicity didn't walk out on him because he kept William from her. She already told him she understood he was put in an impossible situation, so other people telling her what she already knows isn't going to make her rethink her leaving, because that isn't why she left.  She left because he leaves her out of very important parts of his life.  She even mentioned the fact that he decided to send William away without talking to her about it.  He doesn't talk things through with her.  He doesn't unburden himself to her.  He isn't sharing his life with her.  Felicity did not leave because he kept William from her but rather that it is a pattern with him to keep things from her.  He isn't sharing his life with her, and that is what she isn't sure she wants to live with for her future.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

The fridging thing I'd agree too, on principle, but since I don't like Laurel I wouldn't mind one bit, haha. 

 

I mean, there are ways to circumvent the fridging somewhat, if Laurel gets killed because of herself, or something she did, and not to cause Quentin and/or Oliver some manpain. Bonus points if she dies heroically too.

 

But if they end up fridging Laurel, I will be annoyed by the execution [pun somewhat intended], but not about the death itself, because I think a character that is written and performed like Laurel is does way more harm than good to the female superhero cause.

 

Disclaimer: I still think it's Lance.

Edited by dtissagirl
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looptab

looptab

Yeah, I'm still on that train too. But I enjoy the glee of the people aboard that other train :)

Gee, the episode left me so depressed about the show I'm eating Nutella like there's no tomorrow. Laurel dying would put a stop to that!

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Coop33

Coop33

I'm sure people will try to talk Felicity around, but Felicity didn't walk out on him because he kept William from her. She already told him she understood he was put in an impossible situation, so other people telling her what she already knows isn't going to make her rethink her leaving, because that isn't why she left.  She left because he leaves her out of very important parts of his life.  She even mentioned the fact that he decided to send William away without talking to her about it.  He doesn't talk things through with her.  He doesn't unburden himself to her.  He isn't sharing his life with her.  Felicity did not leave because he kept William from her but rather that it is a pattern with him to keep things from her.  He isn't sharing his life with her, and that is what she isn't sure she wants to live with for her future.

 

Oh, completely agreed. I should clarify that I mean that in feeling that it was justified that Oliver kept William a secret, others will feel that it's justified for him to keep things from her from time to time - because of the life they lead, etc.. In EBR's interviews this week she mentioned a couple of times that Felicity has to decide whether or not she wants to continue being in a relationship with Oliver knowing that he's going to do this again, which leads me to believe that she's more going to have to come terms with the fact that Oliver lies, rather than Oliver including her going forward.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

Does anyone have any idea why Laurel is in the lair screaming and destroying shit. I think its Curtis, Diggle, and Lance if they have her screaming because she is so emotionally upset about a hurt and shirtless Oliver I am gonna laugh too damn hard. Are Laurel's feelings for Oliver suppose to be showing here, in the same episode where you have Oliver and Felicity decked out in wedding attire? I can't with this damn show IF this is what's happening! Can't get the better picture of this to load but Laurel is using the Canary Cry in the lair and light bulbs and glass is being sprayed ALL over the area while Oliver lies on the table and they cover their ears. Oh yeah so now Curtis knows too or it looks like him in Felicity chair!

 

https://twitter.com/janabeautyangel/status/702851372161626112/photo/1

Edited by Ann Mack
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Well, personally, if they wanted to write Laurel off the show - what I would have preferred that Quentin dies and Laurel leaves town.

 

It could be as simple as Laurel moves to where her mom is (which is no longer Central City so we don't have to worry about why she isn't on Flash). Or they can have her do some soul searching and decide that she doesn't "belong" in Starling or with this team anymore and she just leaves (I would kind of think the baby momma reveal combined with Quentin's death would be enough for that). Or if Nyssa is coming back - maybe Lyla will recruit them both and she'll leave with Nyssa on Argus business.

 

But bottom line is that I don't care much about how brave it is or isn't to kill a mask - I would prefer Laurel just leave town.  And I think a big part of that is because of who is probably responsible - Malcolm.  I don't want him to get another f-ing win.  He was at least half successful in the Undertaking.  He got to convince Thea to run off with him at the end of season two while he did nothing to help defend the city against Slade's army. Then he got to mind-rape Thea to kill Sara.  He got to manipulate Oliver into fighting Ra's and eventually killing him and handing the League over to him.  He got to be shown as being stronger than Nyssa (which I will still never believe).  He also got to be the one to put Wililam in danger (they could have had Darhk figure that out separately).  Now it looks like he's going to get to take DD's place in HIVE.  It's all just TOO much.  If he gets another victory over the Lance girls (of which I kind of include Nyssa) - I'm going to be pissed.

 

However, I've come to terms with the fact that it could go down this way. 

Edited by nksarmi
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I think they're gonna bullshit the canary cry into working like an EMP or something. Like, Oliver's been infected/dosed/implanted with whatever, that operates at a certain high frequency, and the cry will be able to counteract it.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

It's interesting that the promo shows Felicity sitting right next to Oliver at what I assume is DD's trial. I guess that's suppose to support all the quotes that they're handling things like adults. I guess that's a big step up from last season where Felicity spent most of her time over at PT whenever she was pissed at Oliver.

I've been giving it some thought as to whom it is that Felicity wants dead in the limo flash forward and given what happened to DD in 4x15, I do wonder if that doesn't pretty much confirm that she's referring to Malcolm and he's going to end up being the ultimate Big Bad of the season. It also got me thinking about whom Malcolm would have the motivation to kill. Right now, that seems to be Thea. Blood or not, I do wonder if her perceived "betrayal" is going to send him over the edge. I could see that would shake both Oliver and Felicity to the core.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Oh, completely agreed. I should clarify that I mean that in feeling that it was justified that Oliver kept William a secret, others will feel that it's justified for him to keep things from her from time to time - because of the life they lead, etc.. In EBR's interviews this week she mentioned a couple of times that Felicity has to decide whether or not she wants to continue being in a relationship with Oliver knowing that he's going to do this again, which leads me to believe that she's more going to have to come terms with the fact that Oliver lies, rather than Oliver including her going forward.

I cannot begin to overstate how very much I loathe that idea. She just has to decide that it's okay that he lies to her about huge stuff that completely affects her and their life together every so often? NO, I cannot accept that, and if she accepts that, after all her talk even back in S3 about being a true partner, it will be totally OOC.

 

I THINK the show isn't doing that. I think he will change, just with less emphasis specifically on not lying again, and more being a good partner, which INCLUDES, but is not limited to, not lying.

 

I think EBR wasn't saying that, either. I think she was saying that no matter how much he seems to have changed she'll have to decide whether she's willing to take the chance that he hasn't, rather than just decide that she's totes cool with him lying every so often.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Is DD's loss of magic permanent?  If it is, then the 'he; in the flashforward has to be Malcolm because it looks like DD is going to be defanged.  Too bad it's not Ruve that Oliver has to kill..

 

Seeing Oliver cry on Laurel's shoulder in the promo and the comments that Laurel wouldn't have walked out on him like Felicity did and now he should be with the Black Canary make me laugh.  Because just how low is their opinion of Laurel that they think she would want to be with a lying liar who lies and can't trust his life partner?

 

And if Felicity does take on the mantle of the person in the grave, she'll do it faster if all she has to do is take a few boxing lessons and put on black leather (Sara ---> Laurel ---> Felicity). If she were going to join the PD, she'd have to take a couple of years of training.

 

Does Malcolm tell Darhk that Ivo is going forward with Genesis? It cannot be that I rightly used the graveyard scene soundtrack to connect it with the island. Originally I thought it must be a connection to Slade, but later on I noticed it was the same score used the first time Amazo was shown. Maybe Ivo's wife actually survived her disease and is even crazier than he was. Or Alex iss Ivo's kid and not Slade's, as has been speculated.

I think we'll see Slade's kid in LoT tonight fighting Connor Hawke.

 

Did Ivo talk about the Genesis project or is Genesis connected to Shadowspire and Reiter?  Or are they all connected?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Seeing Oliver cry on Laurel's shoulder in the promo and the comments that Laurel wouldn't have walked out on him like Felicity did and now he should be with the Black Canary make me laugh. Because just how low is their opinion of Laurel that they think she would want to be with a lying liar who lies and can't trust his life partner?

Well, the Laurel we've seen in a relationship with Oliver wouldn't have walked out on him. He was cheating on her and she wanted to marry him, so...there's precedent, haha.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

Well, the Laurel we've seen in a relationship with Oliver wouldn't have walked out on him. He was cheating on her and she wanted to marry him, so...there's precedent, haha.

 

Yep. Laurel had no respect for herself and no standards for Oliver. I can't imagine how anyone would actually celebrate that, but comics! I guess.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Okay, so rewatching the 416 promo, and Cupid wearing a driver's cap while driving a limo? town car? -- I think Cupid is gonna kidnap Felicity, and then make Oliver show up to marry her. [And then Dig and Thea are gonna show up and fight Cupid, hopefully BEFORE the justice of peace marries them?]

 

I think Cupid planned them a wedding. Because that's the exact kind of crazy I'd expect from her. And there are totally gonna be undertones that she's been "shipping" them, because a whole lot of O/F's relationship was public, so once they broke up, she's gonna take matters into her own hands.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Chaser

Chaser

Okay, so rewatching the 416 promo, and Cupid wearing a driver's cap while driving a limo? town car? -- I think Cupid is gonna kidnap Felicity, and then make Oliver show up to marry her. [And then Dig and Thea are gonna show up and fight Cupid, hopefully BEFORE the justice of peace marries them?]

 

I think Cupid planned them a wedding. Because that's the exact kind of crazy I'd expect from her. And there are totally gonna be undertones that she's been "shipping" them, because a whole lot of O/F's relationship was public, so once they broke up, she's gonna take matters into her own hands.

I feel like this is something from Lois & Clark and I don't know if I love or hate the idea.

 

But I could totally see it happening. LOL

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Okay, so rewatching the 416 promo, and Cupid wearing a driver's cap while driving a limo? town car? -- I think Cupid is gonna kidnap Felicity, and then make Oliver show up to marry her. [And then Dig and Thea are gonna show up and fight Cupid, hopefully BEFORE the justice of peace marries them?]

 

I think Cupid planned them a wedding. Because that's the exact kind of crazy I'd expect from her. And there are totally gonna be undertones that she's been "shipping" them, because a whole lot of O/F's relationship was public, so once they broke up, she's gonna take matters into her own hands.

A wacky forced marriage scream NOT OTP to me. No thanks but I'm not really a shipper

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Guest

Guest

The idea of Cupid planning a wedding for Olicity and them willingly getting dressed in their wedding outfits for this madness is my idea of hell. I don't want that for Olicity. 

 

I preferred it when it was a dream/hallucination. This just feels like they're toying with Olicity fans with no promise of follow through. There's only so much messing around before I'm out tbh.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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The idea of Cupid planning a wedding for Olicity and them willingly getting dressed in their wedding outfits for this madness is my idea of hell. I don't want that for Olicity. 

 

I preferred it when it was a dream/hallucination. This just feels like they're toying with Olicity fans with no promise of follow through. There's only so much messing around before I'm out tbh.

Yep, the same way Smallville teased Chalrkers in S10 with the Chalrk "wedding" that was really a drunken Chollie wedding.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Okay, so rewatching the 416 promo, and Cupid wearing a driver's cap while driving a limo? town car? -- I think Cupid is gonna kidnap Felicity, and then make Oliver show up to marry her. [And then Dig and Thea are gonna show up and fight Cupid, hopefully BEFORE the justice of peace marries them?]

 

I think Cupid planned them a wedding. Because that's the exact kind of crazy I'd expect from her. And there are totally gonna be undertones that she's been "shipping" them, because a whole lot of O/F's relationship was public, so once they broke up, she's gonna take matters into her own hands.

Yeah, I saw this theory floating around on Tumblr last night and I think it's correct. Felicity gets kidnapped from her PT office and Oliver is called to the "wedding", which gets interrupted by rest of Team Arrow. Cupid somehow escapes with Felicity in the limo. There are also scenes of Oliver on his bike traveling next to the limo. The poster speculated that Felicity is in the back and Oliver is trying to save her and subsequently gets hurt, thus leading to the scenes in the lair where he's on the table.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Yeah, I saw this theory floating around on Tumblr last night and I think it's correct. Felicity gets kidnapped from her PT office and Oliver is called to the "wedding", which gets interrupted by rest of Team Arrow. Cupid somehow escapes with Felicity in the limo. There are also scenes of Oliver on his bike traveling next to the limo. The poster speculated that Felicity is in the back and Oliver is trying to save her and subsequently gets hurt, thus leading to the scenes in the lair where he's on the table.

Is the thought that Oliver is fighting for his life at the end of 416 and that carries over to 417?  I'm trying to figure out how that fits together with the fact that we know SA was talking about being shirtless on an exam table during 417 filming.  Plus we have the BTS pics from Echo in the lair with PB and DR which were for 417.  I'll have to go back and look to see if it's the same clothes as in the promo.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I am really going to hate it if Oliver gets hurt trying to save Felicity from Cupid.  We already know he'll risk his life for her, or really anyone else at all.  What he won't do is let Felicity be a partner, and that's what I need to see him work on.

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way2interested

way2interested

Yeah, I saw this theory floating around on Tumblr last night and I think it's correct. Felicity gets kidnapped from her PT office and Oliver is called to the "wedding", which gets interrupted by rest of Team Arrow. Cupid somehow escapes with Felicity in the limo. There are also scenes of Oliver on his bike traveling next to the limo. The poster speculated that Felicity is in the back and Oliver is trying to save her and subsequently gets hurt, thus leading to the scenes in the lair where he's on the table.

My confusion with this is that Cupid has her whole "til death do us part" line while she's driving the town car/limo, which I don't understand why she would say that to anyone, least of all Felicity if she is being kidnapped? Plus, there's a shot of the limo crashing through a building that throws me off as well.

Oliver is definitely fighting someone in Felicity's office though in that one shot, and I have no idea how that armored man fits into anything.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Is the thought that Oliver is fighting for his life at the end of 416 and that carries over to 417?  I'm trying to figure out how that fits together with the fact that we know SA was talking about being shirtless on an exam table during 417 filming.  Plus we have the BTS pics from Echo in the lair with PB and DR which were for 417.  I'll have to go back and look to see if it's the same clothes as in the promo.

Perhaps, the poster didn't really get into specifics beyond Oliver being hurt, but it makes sense that it would be some kind of cliffhanger leading into 4x17. It's a bit of poetic justice, I suppose, if Oliver's life hangs in the balance because of trying to save Felicity. If people are looking for some sort of "grand gesture" that certainly has a sense of one (although it that is what TPTB are trying to say, it's waaaaay too early for that, IMO).

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
Perhaps, the poster didn't really get into specifics beyond Oliver being hurt, but it makes sense that it would be some kind of cliffhanger leading into 4x17. It's a bit of poetic justice, I suppose, if Oliver's life hangs in the balance because of trying to save Felicity. If people are looking for some sort of "grand gesture" that certainly has a sense of one (although it that is what TPTB are trying to say, it's waaaaay too early for that, IMO).

 

 

But that's not really a grand gesture.  Oliver's problem has never been a willingness to help or throw himself in the line of fire to protect those he loves.  Oliver's problem has and continues to be (what Felicity pointed out in the episode) the inability to trust others and include them in the decision making process. 

 

Cupid is in 416 and Bee Lady from Flash is in 417, right? They're gonna double down on O/F and Felicity-centric villains there.

 

Yes, Cupid in 416 and Bugged Eyed Bandit in 417

 

Can you refresh my memory?

 

She first appeared in S7 (Adventures in Babysitting) as a teen who's father was a hunter and he and Sam get kidnapped by some female monsters.  Dean teams up with Krissy to save both and she gets her first kill.  Dean convinces the dad that raising a kid in the hunters life is bad and he promises to hang up the gloves.

 

She comes back in another episode (S8 Freeks and Geeks), she's living in a foster home run by a hunter and she's with a bunch of other kids who's parents were killed by Vamps.  The kids have all become hunters, encouraged by their foster father but he's really a bad guy in league with a Vampire.  She decides to stay with the other kids and but still has the hunting bug.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

My confusion with this is that Cupid has her whole "til death do us part" line while she's driving the town car/limo, which I don't understand why she would say that to anyone, least of all Felicity if she is being kidnapped? Plus, there's a shot of the limo crashing through a building that throws me off as well.

Oliver is definitely fighting someone in Felicity's office though in that one shot, and I have no idea how that armored man fits into anything.

If the wedding is a ploy, then maybe she busts in and breaks up the ceremony, then kidnaps Oliver and makes a getaway with him in the backseat of the limo where she yells that at him because she's bananapants crazy.

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looptab

looptab

I had forgotten about BugEyed Bandit, but now that I think of it, that guy in the armor Oliver was fighting looked kinda similar to those attacking Felicity in the Flash comics. At least what little I remember of that.

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way2interested

way2interested

I had forgotten about BugEyed Bandit, but now that I think of it, that guy in the armor Oliver was fighting looked kinda similar to those attacking Felicity in the Flash comics. At least what little I remember of that.

Just realized the same thing. Makes me think now that the promo had 416 and 417 in it unless they are setting up Bug-eyed bandit in 416 for 417.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Are they still filming 418 or have they moved on to 419? As bad as the island flashbacks have been, I'm boggled that they would have two Lance family focused flashback episodes in a row.

 

It's throwing me off that Amell seems to be on set -- why would he be on set for young Laurel flashbacks? Are they gonna de-age him with make up too? Because ew.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I don't know how that actress could play a young Laurel when KC was already playing a younger Laurel in flashbacks. How young is she supposed to be? She looks in her 20s. 

Edited by Guest
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I know we have a month break, but I'm going to need some other countries' promos to leak to try to make sense of what the hell Cupid is doing. I know she's crazy pants, but why target Felicity and Oliver? I don't even know why I care.

Because she's obsessed with lovvvvve and she's out-of-her-mind insane. It sort of makes sense since the O/F relationship had to have been very high-profile in Star City.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

It's throwing me off that Amell seems to be on set -- why would he be on set for young Laurel flashbacks? Are they gonna de-age him with make up too? Because ew.

With all the respect to him there's no way they can make him look as young as her at this point of his life, LOL

I doubt she is a young LL but I have no idea who she could be.

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