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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

Might affect his campaign for mayor...

It's certainly a way to encourage voters.

But just imagine a weeding wedding! And Barry all bummed out he can't get baked.

Oh, right. Barry's metabolism is too fast. Poor Barry.

Edited by bijoux
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Sunshine

Sunshine

I have been wondering if Felicity will walk again this season because comics.  It's my understanding that the Calculator tries to find a cure for his daughter Proxy/Wendy.  It doesn't work but whatever.  Both WM & MG have talked about bringing Calculator back as one of the characters they would like to explore more in S5 (along with Curtis Holt & Anarky).  I think he was introduced in S4 to show us Felicity's reaction to both his appearance as well as his deception.  She was hopeful he had changed and wanted a relationship. This could lead to an eventual thawing in her relationship with Oliver.  Her reaction to dad's deception also gives us a clue as to how she might react to Oliver's deception.  They would work together similar to S3 but she probably shuts him out completely otherwise or at least tries to.

 

I wonder if the kid reveal (which most have been speculating is at the debate in 4.14) might actually be at the party, rehearsal, wedding, whatever instead.  Debate comes first but they end up having to evacuate the site.  Do they immediately resume the debate?  They might but a female voice says something about making sure OQ doesn't get out alive.   I think they have to find a new location.   I am thinking worse case scenario...Rehearsal dinner or actual ceremony interrupted by either Baby Mama or Dhark informing Oliver his son has been taken.  Cue ending TV message PB and SA were talking about on social media. (They didn't say it was the end just talking about "corpsing" and camera pushing in on Oliver)

 

We had almost proposal 4.01, actual proposal 4.09, informal vows 4.10 with putting ring on, reproposal 4.13, so I have no trouble picturing an almost wedding in 4.14 to go with a hallucinated/dream wedding in 4.16.  

 

BAM said we'd need plenty of Kleenex but not necessarily for the reasons we think.  Charlotte said something on SM about so many different emotions.  

 

(I am almost always wrong so take my post with a grain of salt. LOL.) 

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bijoux

bijoux

Cue ending TV message PB and SA were talking about on social media. (They didn't say it was the end just talking about "corpsing" and camera pushing in on Oliver)

 

I don't remember a TV message, just Bamford zooming into SA's eye during a scene with Oliver and Lance.

 

I'm working on the theory that Oliver and Felicity get back together before the end of the season, which is why I put the cure somewhere before that. Put it during their separation and drive the knife in good that they're hesitant and not celebratory as they would have been while they were together.

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spartan

spartan

(edited)

is there a point to your post or are you now just trolling?

SORRY, but I can not help but make a connection between [Edited by mod: fans] and [other fans], it's just an observation I already imagine a war on twitter lol

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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Sunshine

Sunshine

I don't remember a TV message, just Bamford zooming into SA's eye during a scene with Oliver and Lance.

 

I'm working on the theory that Oliver and Felicity get back together before the end of the season, which is why I put the cure somewhere before that. Put it during their separation and drive the knife in good that they're hesitant and not celebratory as they would have been while they were together.

You're right, it was just Bam zooming in.  I think I saw camera and thought TV speech.  I will be surprised if Oliver and Felicity don't get back together by 4.23. I'm just not convinced they are in a hurry to cure Felicity especially as they have gotten favorable reactions for the paralysis portrayal.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Didn't WM all but admit Felicity would be walking by the funeral/gave/limo scene? She never outright stated it but she talking about honoring people in wheelchairs while having an obvious timeline in place.

I can't remember the exact words but it was in 1 or 2 different interviews post 410 Flashforward

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Didn't WM all but admit Felicity would be walking by the funeral/gave/limo scene? She never outright stated it but she talking about honoring people in wheelchairs while having an obvious timeline in place.

I can't remember the exact words but it was in 1 or 2 different interviews post 410 Flashforward

 

Yeah, that was my reading of her interviews too. I mean, she deflected and started talking about how the flash-forward was more about the state of O/F's relationship, but it made me think Felicity walks again before whoever dies.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I have been wondering if Felicity will walk again this season because comics.  It's my understanding that the Calculator tries to find a cure for his daughter Proxy/Wendy.  It doesn't work but whatever.  Both WM & MG have talked about bringing Calculator back as one of the characters they would like to explore more in S5 (along with Curtis Holt & Anarky).  I think he was introduced in S4 to show us Felicity's reaction to both his appearance as well as his deception.  She was hopeful he had changed and wanted a relationship. This could lead to an eventual thawing in her relationship with Oliver.  Her reaction to dad's deception also gives us a clue as to how she might react to Oliver's deception.  They would work together similar to S3 but she probably shuts him out completely otherwise or at least tries to

 

It's not a bad theory that they might use Calculator to bring about FS's recovery. My major critique of that theory is that Noah is now in jail until he is properly held for trial. Unless of course, they are unable to book him or hold him on any charges. The show just had him being arrested, he wasn't fully incarcerated. So there is a strong possibility that he might be free to roam the world and help his daughter. That being said, I can imagine between Noah's betrayal & OQ's betrayal, I doubt she would be willing to trust Noah so easily with a cure. I think she would be able to trust OQ with a cure (maybe not her heart) even if they were broken up.

 

Because despite OQ tendency to withhold info, he has consistently proven that he loves her, values her and does what he thinks is best to protect her safety & her life. So if OQ presented her with a potential cure, I could see her considering it even if they were not together. Whereas Noah has consistently put his needs above hers & her mothers, so I can't imagine her being willing to try out his cure, because she would rightfully be questioning his motives. Noah has done nothing to earn her trust. Meanwhile, OQ has always had her trust, he just messed up because of emotions, bad habits & ultimatums.

 

At the end of the day it is sometimes easier to rebuild lost trust when there is love present, as opposed to recreate trust that was never present & lacks the solid foundation of love. Despite all of his faults, OQ loves FS, FS knows that. I'm not sure Noah can say the same thing. That being said, even though the writers love their comics, I think they love their Oliver more, so if they can give him the credit in helping FS walk again I think they will do it. Especially if it helps thaw or lead to a reconciliation. There are only 3 people I can see the show willing to give credit to for helping FS walk again - FS, OQ & perhaps Curtis as part of his hero arc. Noah is a good comics option, but I don't think they will take that route in my personal opinion. However, it is a valid theory that they might go the comic route.

Edited by kismet
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

https://twitter.com/olicitweet/status/698981060655185920

Should I take this to mean there are actual Malcolm and Felicity scenes coming up? I enjoy those since Felicity seems to be the last character allowed to hate Malcolm.

This tweet seems to support that there are scenes coming up.  (Just scroll down from the original link to find it)

Olicitweet ‏@Olicitweet  · 3m3 minutes ago 

@SmoaknArrow @Team_Barrowman @EmilyBett He said something like "I absolutely cannot tell you" so couldn't tease b/c of spoilers, I'd say

 

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MuuMuuChainsmoker

MuuMuuChainsmoker

SORRY, but I can not help but make a connection between [Edited by mod: fans] and [other fans], it's just an observation I already imagine a war on twitter lol

 

Posts like this are just a whole lot of NO.   Do NOT discuss fandoms or how some groups of fans allegedly feel or might feel.  I can't emphasize this enough.

 

Also for other posters, ditissagirl is right.  Ignore, report, ignore, report is the mantra to live by.  Thanks to those who reported. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Tbh I'm not that worried about the break up.From the moment we knew he lied and would be lying for months its was obvious it was happening so i guess I had time to prepare.And from the moment they got together I thought there would be a break up at one point for sure.I was n't expecting it this season but I also wasn't expecting a proposal either so breaking them up before they get married isn't that suprising.

I don't mind the angst,I didn't mind it that much last season either tbh.I thought we got some good scenes out of it and I liked pining Oliver lol.I did hate that the whole season was so depressing,if it wasn't I don't think the olicity angst would have been as hard to take.I'm just hoping we get a different kind of angst this time,with Oliver not being so passive and resigned that its all over now.

We knew this was coming, right?  We knew that they would let Oliver and Felicity get together in 3x23 and live happily ever after till the show ended.

 

I hated what they did to Felicity and Olicity last season. Can it be worse than that?  At least at this point, we know Oliver really loves Felicity, which we didn't know last year for all his protestations.

 

Whatever is coming up, at least it's got to be better than what Castle did, splitting up Castle and Beckett for the most unnecessary and idiotic reasons ever. At least there is some sort of twisted logic for Oliver.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Whatever is coming up, at least it's got to be better than what Castle did, splitting up Castle and Beckett for the most unnecessary and idiotic reasons ever. At least there is some sort of twisted logic for Oliver.

 

Proof that show runners everywhere are idiots.  Watching the show scramble to both finish the storyline it's stuck with while also attempting to undo the damage it did by at least now secretly letting them be together is almost amusing except for them being too stupid to have done this in the first place.  Probably too late to fix the ratings spiral, but perhaps it will live on as a cautionary tale for other shows.   

 

I hated what they did to Felicity and Olicity last season. Can it be worse than that?  At least at this point, we know Oliver really loves Felicity, which we didn't know last year for all his protestations.

 

Darkest before dawn, right? 

Edited by BkWurm1
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spartan

spartan

Posts like this are just a whole lot of NO.   Do NOT discuss fandoms or how some groups of fans allegedly feel or might feel.  I can't emphasize this enough.

 

Also for other posters, ditissagirl is right.  Ignore, report, ignore, report is the mantra to live by.  Thanks to those who reported. 

not my intention, but I find it odd that you answer me that way while many here give their opinion equally. Sorry, again

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Back to when the Death will happen. My friend was at DCC and this is what she heard SA answer.

just because they've been teasing the grave scene all year, doesn't mean it won't happen until the Season Finale

Basically we're back to anytime between now and 422

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Belinea

Belinea

But did they not say that we'd have time to mourn. I don't need a whole hiatus. Also I don't want to have only Oliver/Felicity unhappy scenes until October. Oh boy. I am already over the grave scenes.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Responding to an inquiry above... here are some of WM's comments on Felicity's paralysis:

-- WM: "Oracle is completely off the table for a slew of reasons. We were really more interested in exploring the reality of what it's like to go through something like that. How do you deal with it emotionally, and how do you deal with it on a practical day-to-day basis. Specifically for Felicity, how is she going to deal with it in a relationship with Oliver, and also, her role on the team. It was less driven by any agenda with Oracle and much more of, 'What are these challenges like?' Hopefully, we are doing some justice and paying a lot of respect towards people that really do live day-to-day with that reality." (ComicBookResources article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- WM: "What we're going for with this, as much as possible on a DC Comics show, is to try to play the reality of someone going through something that difficult and challenging. At the moment where you see her, it's in a place of shock with respect to her own issues and shifting her focus on Oliver and making sure he doesn't fall back into old habits and do something he would regret. Going forward, it's not going to be easy. The reality is, making an adjustment of that kind for someone at her age, it's not an easy thing to do. We wanted to be as respectful and real towards people who are facing that reality and explore the ups and downs of it. So yes, you see her calm in [episode] 410, but I don't think it's realistically possible for anyone to very calmly accept this new reality. She'll be dealing with this for the next few episodes, at least."  (The Hollywood Reporter article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- WM: "What we want to explore with what Felicity’s going through is be as respectful as we can be with the reality of what it’s like to go through what she went through, to have a spinal cord injury and how do you move forward with your life emotionally, physically, on the team, off the team, and the way we have been exploring it on the page in the writers’ room is through the prism of Oliver and Felicity’s relationship and we want it to play really real. Oliver is very optimistic that we live in a world where The Flash exists, so things are possible, and for Felicity, she’s grounded and practical, and this is her new reality, so that’s really where we’re at. It’s less about the timeline and much more about finding the emotional reality of where they are." (ETonline article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
-- On whether the Goth Felicity in the midseason trailer who is standing is an Earth-2 Felicity, WM: "I love the idea of Earth-2 Felicity, but we on Arrow try to stay in this time and space. But yes, I definitely think there will be a time and place in the future where we could see Felicity stand." (EWarticle, page 29 of Spoilers thread)
Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

Part of me wonders if the final scene of s4 is just an extended version of the winter premiere. They'll reveal the death & gravestone. But we'll end the season on the cliffhanger of O/Q driving off into sunset again only this year its sad & not happy.

Just a theory if they wanted to do stuff differently, which would be surprising. It's probably still gonna follow similar pattern, but unfortnately we are due for a sad finale. So I would not be surprised if this is the year we get sad ending again.

However, I think there is decent evidence that the death is final scenes of 18, carry over to 19, funeral 20.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Seasons 1-3 were considered a trilogy of sorts.  So if the EPs are kinda viewing Seasons 4-6 as another trilogy...

 

S1 ended on a sad note with Tommy's death, OTA disbanded, and Oliver leaving Starling CIty to go mope on an island.  S2 ended on a hopeful note, with Oliver taking down Slade, OTA together, and Oliver being all ambiguous about his feelings for Felicity.  S3 ended on a happy note with a new vigilante team to watch over the city and O&F driving off into the sunset.

 

So it's very possible that S4 could end on a sad note (to match S1).

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Hey, I just watched the Canadian promos for 414 and it looks like there's a scene where Laurel/BC saves Oliver/GA's life.  You hear a woman's voice go, "Watch out!" and then it looks like Laurel knocks Oliver down.  So another heroic moment for her.

Edited by tv echo
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bijoux

bijoux

Seasons 1-3 were considered a trilogy of sorts.  So if the EPs are kinda viewing Seasons 4-6 as another trilogy...

 

S1 ended on a sad note with Tommy's death, OTA disbanded, and Oliver leaving Starling CIty to go mope on an island.  S2 ended on a hopeful note, with Oliver taking down Slade, OTA together, and Oliver being all ambiguous about his feelings for Felicity.  S3 ended on a happy note with a new vigilante team to watch over the city and O&F driving off into the sunset.

 

So it's very possible that S4 could end on a sad note (to match S1).

 

S1 didn't really end with OTA disbanded and Oliver leaving. We found out these things in the S2 premiere. For me it was the best finale because the consequences were hard but the team still accomplished a whole freaking lot, so there was hope there as well.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't know whether I should be grateful or resentful that this time the Asian promo wasn't that different from the other promos..:)

 

It actually made me wonder if there was something so big happening that even the Asian promo spoiler fairies didn't want to reveal it. 

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Chaser

Chaser

I assumed it was Laurel but now it kind of sounds like Thea.

I'm pretty sure the big moments are all of the personal variety and the promos are all Action Action Action. Have they shown Mama Smoak at all in promos this season?

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looptab

looptab

I agree, it sounds like Thea to me.

 

It actually made me wonder if there was something so big happening that even the Asian promo spoiler fairies didn't want to reveal it. 

It's either that, or someone has found a way to rein that division in?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

  • Author
(edited)

Keep in mind that trailers are misleading and they have overlapped different dialogue in scenes during a trailer.

Also, I think LL gets the head wound running through the collapsing garage (in the extended promo)

Also I don't think LL is saving Oliver, looks more like she runs into him while getting out of the line of fire. The scene seems like they're on opposite sides of a doorway and LL runs to his side then covers her face from bullets/ricochet. I'm guessing this lines up with that still of GA/BC where it looks like he's telling her something and she's staring to the left

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Chaser

Chaser

I thought she was wearing casual clothes in the building collapse?

Im not sure she gets the head wound from the promo shot though. The blood was on her right side but in the promo it looks like the blast something is on her left.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

But did they not say that we'd have time to mourn. 

 

They did, but the way they cut scenes and plot stories, that could mean two 5 minute scenes in a 42 minute episode. I agree that GraveWatch has outlived it's welcome (no pun intended,) and the sooner they kill off the person in the grave, the better. Unless it's Diggle which I refuse to believe.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

On another subject, I am listening to SA's panel at DCC.  It's on youtube.  He said he wouldn't tell who was in the grave.  He only said he didn't know when he first shot the scene.  Regarding THE LIE, he said bad decisions make for good TV.  If he was against the lie he's changed his tune (at least for publicity purposes.)  He also says the 3.5 minutes at the end of 4.15 cuts away to montage scenes. Oliver having everything "taken" from him? Felicity, Baby Mama, Spawn, etc... 

Edited by Sunshine
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kes0704

kes0704

(edited)

On another subject, I am listening to SA's panel at DCC. It's on youtube. He said he wouldn't tell who was in the grave. He only said he didn't know when he first shot the scene. Regarding THE LIE, he said bad decisions make for good TV. If he was against the lie he's changed his tune (at least for publicity purposes.) He also says the 3.5 minutes at the end of 4.15 cuts away to montage scenes. Oliver having everything "taken" from him? Felicity, Baby Mama, Spawn, etc...

That's true in some cases, that bad decisions make for good TV drama, BUT the problem here is we just came out of S3 which was filled with Oliver showcasing his terrible decisions making skills. Plus, this "bad decision" doesn't seem to serve any real purpose* which is why I'm a little bit tired of retreading this same ground.

In regards to having everything "taken" from him. I think I remember reading an interview with NM where he said Oliver would take thing from Dahrk and Dahrk would take things from Oliver so that would fit into Oliver losing everything by the end of the episode*.

*I just realised as I finished typing, that this is the whole purpose of the lie. LOL.

Edited by kes0704
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