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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I haven't been able to watch 413 yet since I am at work, but what I'm piecing together from twitter is that the wedding is getting moved up and that the MM knows the secret but perhaps not FS or TA...

 

Which makes me think - have we considered that perhaps the wedding will go through and the secret will be revealed after the wedding? Because that would maximize the BMD & the emotional fall-out which is what I think the show is going for... And then there would be different friction because now that they are married it changes the dynamic of the break-up. It makes it about them working through the betrayal or giving up on their marriage. Whereas before FS could just walk away & break off the engagement. She still could walk away after they are married, but its more complicated then.

 

It could also explain the lack of diamond in the flash fwd, because perhaps she is just wearing her wedding band & not her engagement ring, as some people for a variety of reasons, one of which is not to be flashy which might be the case with her being at a funeral.

 

Plus, I could so see OQ pulling the I was gonna use our marriage to convince BM to back down on her ultimatum.

 

Since everybody is waiting for the break-up to happen, a real wedding would actually be quite a shocker (and since it's sweeps, I'm inclined not to rule it out). It also goes back to Felicity's dialogue in 4x09, "Isn't that the whole point of marriage, to get through the hard times because we are together, not in spite of it?" Then again, this would mean "Arrow" would be marrying off it's hero and that seems to be a no-no, unless you're in much later seasons, for superhero shows. As for what Stephen said, well, I don't think Olicity fans would be very happy with having the couple married but with so much anger and heartache between them. 

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

@kismet, I think everything is pointing at O/F ending things at the end of 415. SA told a fan at one of the cons that O/F have an emotional scene in that episode and that Olicity fans won't like it. So whatever 'wedding' happens in 416 is probably a dream/hallucination/set-up.

I was thinking they could get the wedding off in 414, then they could be off to a quick honeymoon weekend when it is ruined by the BMD/Kid reveal.

 

415 - The whole kid thing takes up 415, culminating in FS needing space.

 

416 - Crazy Cupid with whatever crazy thing she does. Perhaps she throws the wedding because she is jealous of OQ's wedding that she heard about in the papers. Would make sense why she might come back.

 

417- Beacon of Hope episode, FS starts to warm up to the idea of potentially forgiving OQ. But there is still a fissure between them. However, there is hope that they could work it through eventually. Especially if they have to do public appearances together during the mayoral/election day.

 

Its just a timeline, I've been mulling over. We are all anticipating a break-up and I think they are gonna try to throw a swerve. Olicity fans are not going to be happy with the outcome either way, so why not really make it emotionally angsty? A married couple that has to spend the honeymoon phase of their marriage deciding whether to break-up or work through a surprise kid, habitual honesty flexibility & a death. It's emotionally horrible, but so much meatier & angsty in the writers mind than just breaking up. Also, then they can passively-aggressively comment that they are not stalling the couple, since they had a wedding, they are just putting them through the wringer.

 

Since everybody is waiting for the break-up to happen, a real wedding would actually be quite a shocker (and since it's sweeps, I'm inclined not to rule it out). It also goes back to Felicity's dialogue in 4x09, "Isn't that the whole point of marriage, to get through the hard times because we are together, not in spite of it?" Then again, this would mean "Arrow" would be marrying off it's hero and that seems to be a no-no, unless you're in much later seasons, for superhero shows. As for what Stephen said, well, I don't think Olicity fans would be very happy with having the couple married but with so much anger and heartache between them. 

 

I actually think TPTB are okay with O/F being married & being one of the only superhero shows to have a married couple. Which is why I think we'll have a wedding soon if not by the s5 winter finale. I just don't think TPTB are happy with O/F being happy, so they'll wed them whenever it is "organic" but they won't prioritize them being a purely happily married couple.

Edited by kismet
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Now that Malcolm is Oliver's enemy as opposed to frenemy, it looks like there is a 99% chance that the "him" on the flash forward is Malcolm since Oliver failed to kill him this time.

 

But would the writers really be that obvious?  I keep thinking that there is a twist here somewhere.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

Now that Malcolm is Oliver's enemy as opposed to frenemy, it looks like there is a 99% chance that the "him" on the flash forward is Malcolm since Oliver failed to kill him this time.

 

But would the writers really be that obvious?  I keep thinking that there is a twist here somewhere.

 

They could be that obvious. Don't forget, this is Guggie and his band of minions we're talking about. MG is the one who thinks Oliver's not a douche for lying about William, and he's also been the one who thinks he's a genius with his plotlines. Trust me, I fully believe that the writers are trying their hardest to soften the blow along with the cast, but you know, showrunners have the say in what goes into an episode. The writers just do their best to write it. Plus, up until this episode, we were led to believe that the 'him' was most likely Darhk, seeing as he was the only him that was disrupting Team Arrow. Now that we have Malcolm in the mix, they can build up to one of them being the 'him', or even the Calculator...or Anarky. Or, as you said, perhaps a twist being thrown in. Hey, maybe their 'brilliant' twist is going to be Curtis is the 'him'. Who wouldn't see that coming? I sure as hell wouldn't. 

 

 

I'm not against them getting married only to break up at the end, but then HOW WILL I GET MY 100TH EPISODE WEDDING CROSSOVER EVENT??

 

Sorry for the shouting. I just really need a 100th episode Olicity wedding.

 

Please, they're going to have Olicity marry in the 99th episode, and their 100th episode will be their honeymoon on Earth-2, or Earth-3 or Earth-Whatever, fighting to get back home and then Felicity will take home the wrong Oliver and Tommy Merlyn will appear as the Dark Archer and Oliver will start the destruction to Star City once again.

 

....you know, aside from that last part, I would highly enjoy an episode of newlyweds Oliver and Felicity going to another earth to meet their doppelgangers. Evil Oliver and Felicity for the twin, with Felicity being the Overlord or something. 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I feel like having O/F get married only to split an episode later or the same episode would be too cruel. Besides there's just not enough time. William gets taken in 415 which means the lie comes out in that episode too. Or maybe it will come out at the end of 414 and the cliffhanger for that will be William kidnapped. When would they have time to get married? LOL. Nope. Please no!

 

I'm going with breaking up at the end of 415 after they've saved William. Wedding hallucination or dream in 416. Probably Oliver's because he'll be a mopey puppy without his Felicity around.

Edited by Guest
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I'm not against them getting married only to break up at the end, but then HOW WILL I GET MY 100TH EPISODE WEDDING CROSSOVER EVENT??

 

Sorry for the shouting. I just really need a 100th episode Olicity wedding.

 

Easy, in episode 3x08 of The Flash, Barry finds out the future is screwed up because some clerk didn't file the papers properly and Felicity & Oliver aren't technically married. So 5x08 becomes the big wedding ep with all the CW superheroes invited! :)

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

I have $20 that the kid reveal will happen sometime during the debate in 4x14 (possibly, after the audience have been evacuated even) during the zoom/pull-out shot of Oliver in the midseason sizzle reel below:

gWKelSr.jpg?1

 

Didn't WM say that Nyssa holds a knife to Malcolm's throat for the rest of the season?  If she's disbanded the League, what does she have to hold over him?

 

Just because she disbanded the League doesn't mean Nyssa still doesn't want to kill Malcolm for all the crap he's pulled. Perhaps WM just means that Nyssa will still try or not waste any opportunity to kill Malcolm.

 

Question about Brie Larvan: Did Team Flash lock her up in the pipeline after Barry captured her or was she sent to Iron Heights? Isn't she supposed to be appearing in 4x17? Could Darhk, maybe, be the reason why Brie escapes and is after, I'm assuming, Felicity/Team Arrow in 4x17? Maybe part of the reason Darhk allows himself to be captured is to gather his H.I.V.E. people that have been imprisoned and recruit more criminals for his Genesis endgame.

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bijoux

bijoux

I'm going with breaking up at the end of 415 after they've saved William. Wedding hallucination or dream in 416. Probably Oliver's because he'll be a mopey puppy without his Felicity around.

 

Snicker. But I was thinking the other day that Oliver will have to make some major leaps to function while they are broken up. It's not just that they're not together, it's that Felicity will be hurt and he won't be able to help her. And the times we've seen that scenario this season he just sort of flopped around like a fish on dry land. 

 

There's no indication that they'll bring Tom Amandes back this season, is there? Because now that he's been caught (which actually did surprise me), I'm hopeful that the photo from the Iron Heights set Bamford tweeted means we get to see Noah again.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

There's no indication that they'll bring Tom Amandes back this season, is there? Because now that he's been caught (which actually did surprise me), I'm hopeful that the photo from the Iron Heights set Bamford tweeted means we get to see Noah again.

Someone asked him that on Twitter last night (can't find the Tweet), and he said no. I'm guessing DD is being held at Iron Heights and that's who we'll see there.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

So, the decision that Oliver and Felicity made at the end of 13 was to get married soon, as some had speculated - no kids talk, at least not between Oliver and Felicity, haha. Then what is this about??

 

it will inform a journey in 414 and 415 that she goes on with respect to how she’s going to handle being in a relationship, from the point of view of somebody who’s in a wheelchair. It’s a very small thing, but it is powerful and it is very emotional.

I'm starting to dread it will be something like "I can't walk away"...

Edited by looptab
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Ok stupid question, but we have all been assuming there is a break up - but do we KNOW there is a break up?  I mean sure, people have said olicity fans won't like certain things and one of the EPs said that the scene in the limo was a statement to the state of Oliver and Felicity's relationship.....but their relationship can be strained and they could still be married/together.

I mean, they were in the limo together.  Felicity is raging mad and Oliver is in pain and sure - she has no ring on - but if they got married before the lie comes out, they could still be together and just going through a rough patch while she deals with it all.  The LoT episode with Smoak Enterprises and one-armed Oliver could be a nod to - what if they got divorced?  And, olicity fans not liking something in 415 really could mean anything.  Now I'm not really sure about all this.  I was coming to terms with a breakup but I at the same time, I was having a hard time believing she would break up with him over this.  I CAN believe they could just be going through a hard time in a rocky marriage while staying committed to each other - that seems very much in character for both of them.

But now that I'm contemplating them just having a hard start to their marriage - I think I would have actually preferred a break up that lasts awhile and Oliver really learning to change before they got back together for good.  I wonder if I can keep my expectations low enough to be pleasantly surprised (I kind of enjoyed this last episode and I didn't expect to).

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

The problem with the whole son storyline is (at least to me) if you had missed the crossover you'd have no idea that he has this secret son and has a relationship with him that he is hiding. Because while his fiancée is dealing with losing her ability to walk, he is still making trips to see his child. He is trying to have his cake and eat it too. The problem is that the writers assume the audience knows what is like to have and love a child, therefore you never have to say anything at all. How is the audience supposed to have an emotional connection to this story if the story is never mentioned and only mentioned in connection to people never changing. Alluding to the fact that Oliver cannot change that he is a liar who lies (at least that is what I will take away from it). 

I have no patience for this BM drama story and the fact that the poor child and Felicity get hurt in the progress doesn't make me like it more. It is a stupid, underdeveloped plot that should rightfully make Felicity break up with Oliver. I also wish the writers would take a little time telling stories instead of rushing everything. What was the point of Felicity's father being around for 2 episodes? Couldn't they have that as a bigger plot. What is the point of the son if he isn't even mentioned until it serves their purpose. How are we supposed to know that Oliver loves nothing more than his kid if we never see them have a relationship. Why is Felicity in a wheelchair if it doesn't serve any purpose at all. (Furthermore, why did they bring her to the duel? And did they carry her up there?) Why was Damien laying low for 3 whole episodes?Was he on vacation? Is Oliver even still campaigning? 

 

It just frustrates me that a season that started of promising once again has the same problem. No actual direction, no focused storylines. Everything that should get you emotionally attached is told off-screen, but they are surprised that nobody cares. And don't get me started on the flashbacks, they are a waste of time. 

Edited by Belinea
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Malcolm's reveal to Damien made me laugh because who the eff cares enough about this kid for Malcolm giving him over to Darhk to be a huge OMG moment? It doesn't feel particularly weighty, because apart from a blink-and-you'll-miss-it throwaway line last ep, he's never mentioned him, we've seen them together for all of 30 seconds. Oliver doesn't even seem to give much of a shit about him, so I'm not sure why I should. I know it's for Plotty Plot Plot reasons, but jeez...the utter laziness, haha.

Edited by apinknightmare
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Malcolm's reveal to Damien made me laugh because who the eff cares enough about this kid for Malcolm giving him over to Darhk to be a huge OMG moment? It doesn't feel particularly weighty, because apart from a blink-and-you'll-miss-it throwaway line last ep, he's never mentioned him, we've seen them together for all of 30 seconds. Oliver doesn't even seem to give much of a shit about him, so I'm not sure why I should. I know it's for Plotty Plot Plot reasons, but jeez...the utter laziness, haha.

 

It really is terrible. Maybe we're supposed to care simply because it's a child, but they killed off Akio last year, and it was barely a plot point. With the way I feel about the whole BMD, perhaps I should send DD a thank you fruit bouquet if he kidnaps this kid, never to be seen again. Problem solved. With the way Oliver forgets major events in his life, he'll be fine after an episode. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

The more I think about how dumb Oliver is by not adding Malcolm knows about William (2) plus Malcolm is pissed at me and is vowing revenge (2) to get Malcolm might do something to my kid (4) - the more I hope Felicity's break up speech goes something like this:

 

Oliver you're cut and I know you love me and I could almost forgive you for lying to me again, but damn you are dumber than a bag of bricks.  And while I don't mind being the smartest person in a relationship - after all, it would be hard for me not to be - but this is a level of dumb I just don't think I can handle.  Let's just be friends.

Edited by nksarmi
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bijoux

bijoux

I'm not clear on how Nyssa keeps holding a knife at Malcolm's throat for the rest of the season. She disbanded the League and she's no longer Ra's. Although kudos for the privilege of being the last in line. And Malcolm just threw in with Darhk. BTW, I found the shot of him at DD's HQ in the promo hilarious for some reason. So how is Nyssa a threat to him? And what is she doing back in 4x15, helping to scour the streets for William? Throw a disparaging remark at Samantha? I'd be down with the last one.

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bijoux

bijoux

She's probably gonna be searching for her husband's son!

 

Okay, seriously I need an interview with someone confirming that there is no marriage now. How could there be if it's a League marriage and there is no League anymore?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Okay, seriously I need an interview with someone confirming that there is no marriage now. How could there be if it's a League marriage and there is no League anymore?

I would imagine there isn't a marriage, but I was surprised they took it as far as they did in this ep. It seems to me that it would've been a good idea to throw in a line about it especially considering Oliver re proposed, but these people are lazy, so..

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I would imagine there isn't a marriage, but I was surprised they took it as far as they did in this ep. It seems to me that it would've been a good idea to throw in a line about it especially considering Oliver re proposed, but these people are lazy, so..

would have been so easy too.

 

Oliver: Let's get married now.

Felicity: OK but I'm not sure Nyssa is down for the whole Sister Wife deal

Oliver: No longer a problem, Nyssa disbanded the LOA and our marriage along with it.

 

Done!

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm still not convinced that Nyssa kept referencing the marriage other than as a "You owe me" to Oliver.  I hope to never hear about it again.

 

Although I am at a loss how they're going to use Nyssa now that Sara is gone. the LoA is disbanded, and Malcolm is handless.  Without the LoA, she's just another muscle on the team and they've already got four of that.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Maybe she disbanded the LoA and left out the part where she formed another group with her supporters, and sides with TA and Oliver in his conflict with Malcolm?

I actually assumed they were going to have Nyssa start up the Red League but, they made no mention of it.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Question about Brie Larvan: Did Team Flash lock her up in the pipeline after Barry captured her or was she sent to Iron Heights? Isn't she supposed to be appearing in 4x17? Could Darhk, maybe, be the reason why Brie escapes and is after, I'm assuming, Felicity/Team Arrow in 4x17? Maybe part of the reason Darhk allows himself to be captured is to gather his H.I.V.E. people that have been imprisoned and recruit more criminals for his Genesis endgame.

 

At the end of last season on The Flash they emptied their pipeline prison and said Iron Heights was now capable of handling meta humans so while I can't remember if they ever had her in the pipeline, she'd have ended up in Iron Heights in the long run. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

What is the Red League? I tried googling it but didn't come up with anything.

BoP/Black Canary comic story that was part of the Future's End DC Wide Crossover.  Set 5 years in the future, Dinah Drake took over the LoA and turned it into the Red League.  It's now a league of women/girls who have been rescued from sex trade, white slavery etc and trained to become fighters.  They go about rescuing other women and trying to bring illegal sex trafficers to justice

Edited by Morrigan2575
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bijoux

bijoux

At the end of last season on The Flash they emptied their pipeline prison and said Iron Heights was now capable of handling meta humans so while I can't remember if they ever had her in the pipeline, she'd have ended up in Iron Heights in the long run. 

 

Whoa. Iron Heights is incapable of keeping your run of the mill criminal behind bars. How are they suddenly deemed competent to hold meta humans? And for that matter, why are Central City criminals sent to a Star City Prison? Or is Iron Heights the Starbucks of the prison system, there's one near you?

 

BoP/Black Canary comic story that was part of the Future's End DC Wide Crossover.  Set 5 years in the future, Dinah Drake took over the LoA and turned it into the Red League.  It's now a league of women/girls who have been rescued from sex trade, white slavery etc and trained to become fighters.  They go about rescuing other women and trying to bring illegal sex trafficers to justice

 

Okay, that would have been perfect for Sara. It fits her role really well.

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bijoux

bijoux

Is that rando woman shooting a staple gun?

 

I wanted to say it looked like an office stapler, iron and a kettle mated.

 

Did I miss a previous connection between DD and MM? Is DD not curious why MM is offering up this rando information on Oliver Queen? And why he's missing a hand? The logic fail on this whole thing boggles my mind.

 

Given DD's previous involvement with LoA I assume he kept tabs on it enough to know who Malcolm is after his ascention if not before.

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