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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I don't know if they will do the sister swapping again - although I wouldn't put it past them.

Honestly though I could see LL having a sexual relationship as her final step to achieving closer on her relationship with SL & OQ. In LLs mind SL stole everything from her, including the love of her life (OQ). Now that she has her sister's mask, her sister's spot on the team the next logical step is to have her sister's lover.

It's kinda ew, but it fits LL logic and the writers logic to complete the circle & journey. It's LL attempt for closure by working through her issues with SL by living out the same experiences. SL stole me lover and so now I must steal her lover. SL ruined my life & reset my life journey so I must do the same which is why she sent her to LoT.

And if her being with Nyssa puts a wrench in OQs life & plan all the better for her

Edited by kismet
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spartan

spartan

I don't know if they will do the sister swapping again - although I wouldn't put it past them.

Honestly though I could see LL having a sexual relationship as her final step to achieving closer on her relationship with SL & OQ. In LLs mind SL stole everything from her, including the love of her life (OQ). Now that she has her sister's mask, her sister's spot on the team the next logical step is to have her sister's lover.

It's kinda ew, but it fits LL logic and the writers logic to complete the circle & journey. It's LL attempt for closure by working through her issues with SL by living out the same experiences. SL stole me lover and so now I must steal her lover. SL ruined my life & reset my life journey so I must do the same which is why she sent her to LoT.

And if her being with Nyssa puts a wrench in OQs life & plan all the better for her

lol, but I would be surprised if the writers make laurel bi

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jay741982

jay741982

Why why why did Felicity bring her father back in Palmer Tech? My poor baby girl wanting to have a relationship with father just hoping she can trust him SMH

I know, I even said it earlier about KL being in 415 and WM's comments but they're laying it on thick

Like them saying Malcolm has to die yet I and others won't get that sweet feeling of that piece of crap dying

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I figured that scene with Malcolm and Oliver would be better than the clip they showed. I loved how Malcolm legit seemed confused and a bit afraid. That was a new thing. 

 

Sorry but I like Malcolm as a villain and I like JB's portrayal.

Edited by catrox14
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jay741982

jay741982

I figured that scene with Malcolm and Oliver would be better than the clip they showed. I loved how Malcolm legit seemed confused and a bit afraid. That was a new thing. 

 

Sorry but I like Malcolm as a villain and I like JB's portrayal.

I do too AS A VILLAIN but he needs to die

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catrox14

catrox14

HOLLLLEEE SHIT. 

 

Okay I did not even think about Malcolm knowing about William.  Fucking Malcolm has not changed AT ALL and it's great IMO.  Okay I give them total props. 

 

Man, why does he hate Nyssa so much? There must be something more to that. 

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catrox14

catrox14

Did Malcolm just let slip that he knows Oliver has a son, or was that revealed earlier in the ep and I missed it?

 

I don't think it slipped.  Malcolm is a long con villain. IMO he's been sitting on that to drop right when he needed it.  Fucker.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't think it slipped.  Malcolm is a long con villain. IMO he's been sitting on that to drop right when he needed it.  Fucker.

 

I don't think it was a slip on Malcolm's part, more that he slipped it in the conversation. But I don't know why dropping it then was necessary since Oliver didn't seem to notice that he'd said it.

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catrox14

catrox14

I don't think it was a slip on Malcolm's part, more that he slipped it in the conversation. But I don't know why dropping it then was necessary since Oliver didn't seem to notice that he'd said it.

 

Nah. Oliver noticed and had to play it cool. He couldn't let Malcolm have that upper hand .....

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Nah. Oliver noticed and had to play it cool. He couldn't let Malcolm have that upper hand .....

 

Yeah, I guess. I just meant that there isn't any resonance for us because Oliver pretended not to notice. 

 

Ah, here we go. So he could tell Damien, haha.

Edited by apinknightmare
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jay741982

jay741982

Well okay then there we go. 

 

Malcolm is back to his asshole ways which IMO he never stopped being. HA!

For some reason I thought Malcolm was gonna throw his daughter under the bus then was like oh shit Oliver's son

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

I only saw the last 15 minutes (will catch it when it airs on the West Coast,) but from what I saw, Felicity Smoak is so much (maybe more) a hero than those in masks. I reserve the right to alter my opinion after watching the whole thing, but let's be real, I won't. 

 

Oh look, Malcolm's a piece of shit. This is brand new information that we had 3 seasons ago. I don't even feel bad for Oliver. This dude should have been dead ages ago.

Edited by calliope1975
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Guest

Guest

Is Malcolm the only one who will know about William though? Because I thought that Oliver would have an advocate for keeping William a secret, someone who agreed that he was doing the right thing. Is that Malcolm?

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

You totally deserve a *high five* for calling it that it was Malcolm who was gonna know about the demon spawn.

 

Wait, I did? I swear I don't remember that. LOL Please receipt me cause I want to own that if it's true.

Edited by catrox14
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jay741982

jay741982

Is Malcolm the only one who will know about William though? Because I thought that Oliver would have an advocate for keeping William a secret, someone who agreed that he was doing the right thing. Is that Malcolm?

I'm hoping but Guggie sucks and Dig, Donna or Laurel will be the one so Felicity can feel more betrayed. Cause she can't get beat up enough emotionally

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Is Malcolm the only one who will know about William though? Because I thought that Oliver would have an advocate for keeping William a secret, someone who agreed that he was doing the right thing. Is that Malcolm?

 

I think this was it. The thing Malcolm said about doing anything for "your son", or whatever.

 

For all that Malcolm disrupts the natural flow of events into pretzel-like crazy plot shenanigans, the BMD pretzeled Malcolm. Pretzelinception.

Edited by dtissagirl
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nksarmi

nksarmi

I don't think it will be Donna but if it is - it better be a "you love him - don't let this split you up" type of defending rather than "he did the right thing" kind of defending.

 

I can't decide on Diggle.  On the one hand, Diggle has a history of "backing Oliver" even when Oliver is wrong, wrong, and more wrong (going to rescue Malcolm last season).  But Diggle has gotten burned on a personal level by Oliver so he has to sympathize with Felicity.  But he might see it as Oliver was just trying to get to know his kid and probably would have told her sooner or later. And most of all, Diggle has had OOC moments before where he told Oliver to lie because he incorrectly read what a person's reaction would be - he was totally wrong when he told Oliver not to tell Thea the truth at the beginning of season three.  And if they want us to agree with Oliver - they would use Diggle to do it.

 

They could use Laurel to back him because they could say that if Laurel can forgive him since he cheated on her to knock baby momma up - then surely Felicity could forgive him as well.  And Laurel has a track record of lying to protect people (her father about Sara) so she might support Oliver in this instance.  But at this point, it seems like if the writers want us to be on Oliver's side - they won't use Laurel to do it.  And since Thea will probably support her brother here - having Laurel side with Felicity seems more likely.

 

If I had to bet - it will be Diggle defending Oliver but who knows.

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jay741982

jay741982

This show better fucking not try to tell us Oliver is right for Lying to the woman he loves over this crap. And I'm sorry but if Dig Donna Thea or Laurel finds out and encourages him to keep lying the character is tainted for me especially Dig Thea and Donna. Especially Cause Felicity can keep a secret and BM had no right with those ridiculous demands

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MuuMuuChainsmoker

MuuMuuChainsmoker

Hi all

 

I know I've said that the general rule is that anything goes in this thread as long as its Arrow related and not fighty. I'm still not proposing to change that as long as it continues to work. 

 

However, if you are live posting during the episode, please don't just post things like "I can't believe that just happened" without any further context. People who aren't watching the episode at the same time don't know what you are talking about and it just ends up being pages of posts that people who want to discuss spoilers have to wade through.   

 

 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

They could use Laurel to back him because they could say that if Laurel can forgive him since he cheated on her to knock baby momma up - then surely Felicity could forgive him as well.  And Laurel has a track record of lying to protect people (her father about Sara) so she might support Oliver in this instance.  But at this point, it seems like if the writers want us to be on Oliver's side - they won't use Laurel to do it.  And since Thea will probably support her brother here - having Laurel side with Felicity seems more likely.

 

If I had to bet - it will be Diggle defending Oliver but who knows.

 

Does the show really want the Olicity fandom (especially the ones who don't have a problem with her) to dislike Laurel even more? Laurel would be such a bad move because not only the Olicity fandom, but even the critics will eat her alive. 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

If they actually have Laurel support Oliver's lie about William I will laugh my face off at their transparency. That would be ridiculous, IMO. The child was conceived while he was in a relationship with Laurel. I know she's moved on and they're not together but surely she would have some reaction to that and not a good one. I like to think she'd tell Oliver he needs to tell Felicity the truth and not make the same mistakes he made with her. I would respect that. If the opposite happens, well, she can just GTFO.

 

I hate the thought of it being Diggle who supports him because who's gonna be there to fight Felicity's corner? But it's more understandable because he has a child himself. At least it would make more sense from a character perspective but then this is Arrow so what do I know? LOL.

Edited by Guest
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kismet

kismet

LL would be a horrible choice because there is no respectable woman that's first response to her ex having a surprise kid with another woman while they were together is to defend him, especially when they are not even together anymore. It's one thing if you are protecting a public image or a current relationship and even then the dynamics are completely different. But LL should not be the one defending OQ in this scenario because she was the one that was betrayed, lied to and treated like shit years ago. So if they want LL to be a strong woman they should not have her be the one defending him.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I wish they were going for some kind of fundamental difference of opinion about what family means with Oliver and Felicity. Felicity learned her father is evil. Her reaction was she told everyone about it, researched him, and then sent him to prison. Oliver's hiding a secret kid for... reasons [discussed ad nauseum], but the underlying subtext here is that Felicity doesn't think blood ties = family first, but Oliver [like Malcolm when it serves his interests] totally does.

 

And since the ~theme of the season IS family, they should be exploring that, instead of just giving each regular character a new/old family member, and calling it a theme.

 

This would have been a really good basis for a breakup, then some serious growth on Oliver's part, but I guess we're just going to get the BMD lie. Since Oliver's been nothing but super supportive, heart eyes, I think Felicity may end up looking badly here. Not to me because the lie is enough for me to think Oliver's ass should be dumped, but instead of a lame stall, I think there could have been some fundamental differences in Oliver and Felicity's philosophies. We got a little bit of that last year when he teamed up with MM, and I wish that had been explored more. I'm tired and preparing to temporarily move to NY so I don't think I'm being clear, but I hope my intentions came through. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Does the show really want the Olicity fandom (especially the ones who don't have a problem with her) to dislike Laurel even more? Laurel would be such a bad move because not only the Olicity fandom, but even the critics will eat her alive. 

 

Which is why I'm leaning against it being Laurel.  They seem to know they need to prop her and having her be on Felicity's side would do that.  Furthermore, Diggle being a dad and MG's comments that he wouldn't consider Oliver a douche because he's lying for his kid make me think they are going with Diggle.

This show better fucking not try to tell us Oliver is right for Lying to the woman he loves over this crap. And I'm sorry but if Dig Donna Thea or Laurel finds out and encourages him to keep lying the character is tainted for me especially Dig Thea and Donna. Especially Cause Felicity can keep a secret and BM had no right with those ridiculous demands

 

After what happened tonight with Malcolm telling Darhk - I don't think Oliver is going to be ABLE to keep the secret much longer.  I think the person who will be on Oliver's side will be saying that Oliver was right to hide the kid.  Again, I think that will be Diggle.

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kismet

kismet

I haven't been able to watch 413 yet since I am at work, but what I'm piecing together from twitter is that the wedding is getting moved up and that the MM knows the secret but perhaps not FS or TA...

 

Which makes me think - have we considered that perhaps the wedding will go through and the secret will be revealed after the wedding? Because that would maximize the BMD & the emotional fall-out which is what I think the show is going for... And then there would be different friction because now that they are married it changes the dynamic of the break-up. It makes it about them working through the betrayal or giving up on their marriage. Whereas before FS could just walk away & break off the engagement. She still could walk away after they are married, but its more complicated then.

 

It could also explain the lack of diamond in the flash fwd, because perhaps she is just wearing her wedding band & not her engagement ring, as some people for a variety of reasons, one of which is not to be flashy which might be the case with her being at a funeral.

 

Plus, I could so see OQ pulling the I was gonna use our marriage to convince BM to back down on her ultimatum.

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jay741982

jay741982

Which is why I'm leaning against it being Laurel.  They seem to know they need to prop her and having her be on Felicity's side would do that.  Furthermore, Diggle being a dad and MG's comments that he wouldn't consider Oliver a douche because he's lying for his kid make me think they are going with Diggle.

 

After what happened tonight with Malcolm telling Darhk - I don't think Oliver is going to be ABLE to keep the secret much longer.  I think the person who will be on Oliver's side will be saying that Oliver was right to hide the kid.  Again, I think that will be Diggle.

Diggle does this and I'm kinda hoping Felicity tells him to Fuck off

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jay741982

jay741982

About this BM Crap Felicity is totally in the right to be pissed when it's revealed. Any rational person can see that. The thought of these fuckheads trying to sell that it's normal to lie to someone you want to marry and they should just accept it is blood boling but it's Guggie who's an idiot and doesn't see it as being a Douche.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

@kismet, I think everything is pointing at O/F ending things at the end of 415. SA told a fan at one of the cons that O/F have an emotional scene in that episode and that Olicity fans won't like it. So whatever 'wedding' happens in 416 is probably a dream/hallucination/set-up.

Edited by Guest
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I wanted to track down an EP's quote about someone finding out about the demon spawn:

Also, there will be another character who finds out about the child and Samantha’s ultimatum, and they will make the argument that Oliver really didn’t have a choice but to honor that promise.

From this MG interview: http://www.tvinsider.com/article/59110/arrow-fall-finale-marc-guggenheim-explains-olivers-actions/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=tvi

That still sounds like what we just watched with Malcolm to me, if only because "there will be another character" means one single character besides Oliver, and that's Malcolm.

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jay741982

jay741982

But after this episode I can't see Oliver and Malcolm bonding or anything remotely non hostile. Plus Guggie surely can't resist someone else finding out and hiding it from Felicity that she respects for drama

About The LOA being destroyed someone over at TVline.com brought that Damien Dhark could be looking for extra help

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Guest
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