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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

Yeah, sorry, Oliver's reasoning for keeping Malcolm alive is ridiculous and dumb. He's a mass murderer but he's Thea's dad! Whatever will she do without him?!

I'd add selfish, too. As a public and masked symbol of hope for Star City, Oliver is willing to put his family's needs (i.e., Malcolm should be spared because he's Thea's father) above the people he's sworn to protect. His campaign poster uses the word "United,"but Oliver isn't united with the community about how to deal with the man who killed 503 of their own.

Arrow-Oliver-Queen-for-Mayor-1.jpg

 

I'm glad that Laurel remembered that Malcolm killed her sister!  She seemed to have forgotten that when she showed concern about where is was during the 4x09 rescue mission.

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Belinea

Belinea

While I do get that Thea already lost 2 father figures in her life, how important is Malcolm really to her? I'd doubt she'd be broken about it forever and ever. He is a murderer who turned her into a killer. Yes, she can fight because of him but he always had an agenda. I just wish the LoA stuff would also go away. It wasn't great last season, it still isn't. And why on earth would Nyssa still listen to Laurel. Laurel didn't care about anyone's opinion but her own last time I checked. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Arranged the sinking of the Gambit setting into motion the complete devastation of the Queen and Lance families. 

 

Arranged the mass murder of 500 people, including the death of his son

 

Mind raped his daughter to murder Sara

 

Etc....

 

As much as I like to complain about Laurel, no character is doing more damage to this show then the twisting of EVERYTHING for Malcolm.

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kismet

kismet

I'm sure the Smoak name will also be used to depress Ray a bit about his legacy disappearing. 

Maybe there will still be that random sign with his picture on it renaming the city. It'll probably have graffiti on it and be on fire - but still its something.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

As much as I like to complain about Laurel, no character is doing more damage to this show then the twisting of EVERYTHING for Malcolm.

 

Yes, Malcolm's inclusion is the ABSOLUTE WORST. There is no possible way to include him in anything without making everyone around him look like absolute morons for allowing him to live and breathe. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Smoak Technologies! Look at Felicity slaying every timeline. *happy dance*

 

After dumping Oliver's sorry ass, Felicity goes on to build a tech empire, dates Dick Grayson, and leads a long, happy life whereupon she laughs every time she sees Oliver's unfortunate facial hair. 

 

I'm going to have to skip 415 to not end up hating Oliver, right? I'm already sideeyeing his nonsense with MM. I think this fight is going to be all for show, and we'll get more superfriends handshakes at the end.

 

I'm about to move PopFunko!Felicity away from Oliver and move her next to Nightwing on my shelf of unnecessary toys. Don't make me do it, Show!

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

And I know Colin Salmon is busy making other shows, but this insistence from the billionaires on this show that blood ties = family, no matter what, is just creepy.

I know.  I found it disturbing that Oliver would equate his relationship with his own problematic father to Thea's relationship with Malcolm.  Oliver had most of his lifetime experiencing Robert's presence in his life, from childhood to adulthood and all the changes that happen during that growth. They shared hugs and holidays, a home and family, growing pains, respect, disappointment--a relationship. Malcolm has only been in Thea's life as her father for less than 2 years, and he's brought her nothing but pain.

 

He is a murderer who turned her into a killer. Yes, she can fight because of him but he always had an agenda.

During 4X12, I was struck by how much Thea seemed to yearn for a "normal" life.  She wanted that so badly for Roy, and when he said he wanted all of those things with her, she reciprocated. I always felt that Thea was thrust into being a masked hero because she had the training and the LP fueled a need for violence. I think she stayed on the team because Oliver left a void both as a hero and as a family member, so she protected the city in his absence and cobbled together a family with Digg and Laurel.  I'm really interested in the types of choices Thea makes moving forward, especially after this latest brush with death.

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

Additionally, why don't they ever release clips that make you want to tune in? I mean, if you want to get people interested I doubt that this clip gets them interested. Isn't the issue the same one as last year. Oliver cannot kill Malcolm because he is Thea's dad?  And for the record, we does the team assume that Oliver can kill Malcolm. Up until this point he was not able to and this season he is especially bad when it comes to fighting (because they need to look all equally bad). So who thinks he'd actually have the ability to kill Malcolm.

Edited by Belinea
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I seriously believe that the "he" is Malcolm not Darhk

 

Yeah - I'd be surprised if it isn't Malcolm, who I'll bet is going to be next season's big bad (UGH X 1000000). Hopefully Nyssa will have taken the LoA back so he'll be rogue or whatever. Then please, god, please someone kill him for good. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Yeah - I'd be surprised if it isn't Malcolm, who I'll bet is going to be next season's big bad (UGH X 1000000). Hopefully Nyssa will have taken the LoA back so he'll be rogue or whatever. Then please, god, please someone kill him for good.

See, here's me being all optimistic thinking they'd actually kill him.
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

This all sounds so boring though. I'm so over Oliver trying to save Malcolm for Thea's sake and lamp shading all the obvious issues (he's a mass murderer, he killed Tommy, he was responsible for Sara's death) doesn't make those issues go away.

 

BORED.COM. 

Edited by Guest
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kismet

kismet

If the show believed in logic and killing off characters that have become problematic than I think the "he" in the end could be MM & lead up to him being the s5 Big Bad. But this show has proven that it doesn't always have a good relationship with logic and keeps on characters that they are fond of for whatever reasons. Even if MM is the "he", I think in "game-changing epic twisting" fashion, OQ & TA will find someway to not have to kill him because he is once again so "vital & relevant" to the overall survival or success of the mission. Basically, the writers will find someway to pretzel him in to keep him even though the flash fwds tell us something completely different. At this point, we should all just accept that to the writers MM is very "organic" & fundamental to the show.

 

They have proven that they are too fond of MM/JB to indicate any desire to change their ways. So for me, I will not believe that they ever have the intention of killing his character off until the final season, unless JB wants out of his contract. I just hope they get it out of their system after this season that MM has to be part of the team and a trusted Ally. I hope they start writing him a more of a grey & evil character like he was in s1. Less chummy frenemy & more evil collaborator when our backs are against the wall. Or when he manipulates & threatens the team to comply to his wishes.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Smh. Two big problems fans and critics had was the twisted LOA plotline and the unneeded Olicity angst in S3. Sounds like that is exactly where we are headed now.

 

I know I shouldn't judge until I've seen it all, but this is ridiculous.

Edited by Chaser
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way2interested

way2interested

I don't know if they will wait until next season. Maybe the villain move in 4x15 is to switch the Big Bads, MM kills DD.

 

Which would be incredibly disappointing. NM >>>>>> JB.

Agreed. Maybe Malcolm does lose control of the league in this episode and then tries to defeat Darhk to take power in HIVE instead. Then, in 415, he takes Darhk's powers away from him somehow, cue Team Arrow capturing Darhk and Laurel prosecuting him in 416, and Malcolm and HIVE become the final boss to defeat instead.

 

 

I hope they start writing him a more of a grey & evil character like he was in s1. Less chummy frenemy & more evil collaborator when our backs are against the wall. Or when he manipulates & threatens the team to comply to his wishes.

Honestly, that's when I've always been okay with them using Malcolm. 320, 322 (other than the reveal that he's been working with Oliver), 323, and 409 I was ok with him and even somewhat enjoyed his presence there (part of it though might be because I love the Malcolm/Felicity sass).

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I can't watch another LoA-centric arc. Bringing that to the forefront at the same time as the escalating BM drama-and-lies and Olicity breakup makes me want to "Nope" the hell out of the show until I hear about something that would make me come back. There's nothing in the spoilers that makes me want to keep watching after they wrap up Felicity's dad storyline in 413.

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kes0704

kes0704

Sigh. Looks like I'm going to be fast forwarding my way through another episode of Arrow, again. It's so disappointing that we finally get to learn something more about Felicity's father and it seems like it's just an after thought in a story with more LOA shenanigans.

I know I should wait until I see the episode, but I feel like the worst aspects of S3 are starting to ruin S4 for me and I really loved this show.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Weird how they've not interviewed EBR or Tom Amandes about the Papa Smoak storyline. It's not like it's a big deal or anything. LOL LOL LOL. Guess it's really not. Good to know though.

 

I can't bring myself to get worked up about this dull LOA storyline. We all know that Malcolm will be fine, Nyssa will probably be defeated because she's never allowed to win, and Thea will live. The End.

Edited by Guest
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looptab

looptab

You all are here berating Oliver's Malcolm-related stupidity, while I am just wondering what the hell was Laurel doing behind that column. They do the weirdest blocking ever.

But, I'm still waiting to know why Nyssa felt she had to involve Oliver in all this.

 

Maybe he uses the Van Dyke to draw back the bow string!

LOL
 

Thank you! Still..weird as hell.

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bijoux

bijoux

While I do get that Thea already lost 2 father figures in her life, how important is Malcolm really to her? I'd doubt she'd be broken about it forever and ever. He is a murderer who turned her into a killer. Yes, she can fight because of him but he always had an agenda. I just wish the LoA stuff would also go away. It wasn't great last season, it still isn't. And why on earth would Nyssa still listen to Laurel. Laurel didn't care about anyone's opinion but her own last time I checked. 

 

Did she really? I don't get the feeling that she lost Walter. He was there to offer her to come live with him after Moira was killed and he  was the one who recommended hiring Alex. So I imagine they are still in touch.

 

I know.  I found it disturbing that Oliver would equate his relationship with his own problematic father to Thea's relationship with Malcolm.  Oliver had most of his lifetime experiencing Robert's presence in his life, from childhood to adulthood and all the changes that happen during that growth. They shared hugs and holidays, a home and family, growing pains, respect, disappointment--a relationship. Malcolm has only been in Thea's life as her father for less than 2 years, and he's brought her nothing but pain.

 

I really wish someone would point this out to Oliver. It's not the same thing, you giant dodo! Your Dad was your Dad. Malcolm wasn't even Tommy's Dad for most of his life, much less Thea's. I wonder if Felicity will weigh in on this. I imagine she would be somewhere along the lines of, You shouldn't kill Malcolm if you don't want to, but if Nyssa wants to... Well, why stop her?

 

I was hoping for something like a rabid hellhound chewing it off. I think that's what I read about how Proxy got disabled while there was speculation on Felicity's fate. And now I actually am bummed that they offed Waller. She would be the perfect person to come up with something like this.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

From that article

 

The older version of Oliver Queen that comic book fans met in The Dark Knight Returns was a shaggy haired, one-armed radical. The government apparently amputated his arm to keep him from using a bow. Instead, he used his teeth.

That seriously is a WTF?

 

It's really bizarre how all the promo is about the LoA storyline. My TV listings read "Laurel (Katie Cassidy) opens up during a heart-to-heart conversation with Nyssa (Katrina Law), who also present Oliver (Stephen Amell) with an offer he finds hard to refuse in a new episodes called Sins of the Father.  Malcolm (John Barrowman) meanwhile continues trying to help Thea (Willa Holland) manage her gnawing bloodlust".

 

Notice whose father isn't there?  Felicity's.  After promising us for 3 years that we get to know about Felicity's parents, it's like he dropped off the face of the earth after the reveal last episode.

 

What does the CW promotion department have against Felicity?  If  you look at even the professional reviews of the show, you'd see that her stories are a big draw.

 

Honestly, that's when I've always been okay with them using Malcolm. 320, 322 (other than the reveal that he's been working with Oliver), 323, and 409 I was ok with him and even somewhat enjoyed his presence there (part of it though might be because I love the Malcolm/Felicity sass).

I love angry Felicity gets at him.

 

I just had a terrible thought -- what if finding out that her own father is a villain makes Felicity feel that she can't be angry at Malcolm any more?  I'd really miss that.

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spartan

spartan

From that article

That seriously is a WTF?

 

It's really bizarre how all the promo is about the LoA storyline. My TV listings read "Laurel (Katie Cassidy) opens up during a heart-to-heart conversation with Nyssa (Katrina Law), who also present Oliver (Stephen Amell) with an offer he finds hard to refuse in a new episodes called Sins of the Father.  Malcolm (John Barrowman) meanwhile continues trying to help Thea (Willa Holland) manage her gnawing bloodlust".

 

Notice whose father isn't there?  Felicity's.  After promising us for 3 years that we get to know about Felicity's parents, it's like he dropped off the face of the earth after the reveal last episode.

 

What does the CW promotion department have against Felicity?  If  you look at even the professional reviews of the show, you'd see that her stories are a big draw.

 

I love angry Felicity gets at him.

 

I just had a terrible thought -- what if finding out that her own father is a villain makes Felicity feel that she can't be angry at Malcolm any more?  I'd really miss that.

should not be exaggerated, almost the entire series is based on Felicity and olicity, there's gold there other regular characters

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bijoux

bijoux

I love angry Felicity gets at him.

 

I just had a terrible thought -- what if finding out that her own father is a villain makes Felicity feel that she can't be angry at Malcolm any more?  I'd really miss that.

Take it back! Felicit will hate Malcolm forever and ever. Two of my favorite things are:

1) Incorrect Arrow quote going something like, If I was in a room with a gun with two bullets and Ra's and Malcolm standing in front of me, I'd shoot Malcolm twice.

2) a fic in which Felicity finds out her Dad is a bad dude (possibly Darhk) and she drunekly contemplates forming an Evil Dad club with Thea and Nyssa.

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way2interested

way2interested

I just had a terrible thought -- what if finding out that her own father is a villain makes Felicity feel that she can't be angry at Malcolm any more?  I'd really miss that.

The moment they have Diggle and/or Felicity willingly and wholeheartedly side with Malcolm is when I'll know that the show is desperate for me to care about Malcolm.

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kismet

kismet

They are basically on their way to a bad dads' support group. Even Andy's son can join now ... Perhaps that's why QL will die. He's has not been a bad enough father to live on in the show. Even RQ gets to live on FLASH now. Clearly the worse father you can be the more likely your survival in the Flarrowverse. Perhaps the goal of OQ & BMD is to keep up the bad parenting choices. If he turns it around too quickly, he might die.

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bijoux

bijoux

 

That's got to be Felicity to Oliver, nothing else makes sense.

 

Bamford just posted a photo of Iron Heights Visitors Rules. So maybe they actually do lock up Darhk for a while. Which is a capital idea, really. Not like a prison is a perfect place for him to do a little replacement Ghosts shopping. 

 

The only thing sure though is that Paul Blackthorne isn't filming there, since he posted a photo from Washington Prep High School.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Just watched the "Sins Of The Father" clip again. Did I miss something with Laurel and Nyssa? Last time they were together Nyssa was begging Laurel not to dip Sara into the LP and Laurel was asking Nyssa how could she destroy the LP while Malcolm was having his goons drag Nyssa off to a dungeon cell. So how is it now  Laurel is suppose to have some sort of influence on/over Nyssa? Why would Nyssa listen to Laurel; Nyssa knows Laurel doesn't have good decision making skills. So far anything dealing with getting the Lotus potion to save Thea and the LOA seems totally ridiculous and lazy ass writing they might as well call this story line "S3 2.0 Let's Try It Again LOA". Oliver beat Ra's in a to the death battle last season, so why can't he just take his loaner ring (Malcolm reaping ALL of the benefits with NONE of the work) back from Malcolm and be done with this crappy ass story line? Oh yeah and from another preview at some point even though Oliver tell Nysas to kill Malcolm on her own they show Oliver taking a sword and he and Malcolm do fight. However, everyone survives because Oliver and Malcolm have to have that rooftop conversation later (the your handsome, not extremely bright one yada, yada, yada) so no suspense whatsoever, wonder what the SHOCKER is Greg Berlanti is referring to cause right now my patience is beyond thin with this shit, ugh!!!!!

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

So how is it now  Laurel is suppose to have some sort of influence on/over Nyssa? Why would Nyssa listen to Laurel

Because the plot needs them to be BFFs again. Nyssa probably cannot stay mad once Laurel turns up the charm.  

Edited by Belinea
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I will forgive whatever nonsense they throw at me with Laurel and Nyssa IF Laurel goes rogue and tries to help Nyssa kill Malcolm.  I don't care if they fail (this time) as long as Laurel takes the stance on this issue she should take - which is try hold a gun to Malcolm's back while Nyssa slits his throat.  I want this so bad!

 

I really think the man Felicity is telling Oliver to kill is Malcolm.  Felicity is OUR voice!  She must be heard!


Oh and I will forgive a lot - perhaps BMD even - if for some stupid reason Darhk happens to know that Malcolm is responsible for sinking the Gambit AND the resurrection of Savage and tells Laurel all about it when she asks for his confession.  I want him to sit there and tell her that Malcolm is a bigger threat to Starling City than he and HIVE have ever been.  After all, he just wants to chase everyone away, then destroy it to build it up again - Malcolm already destroyed part of it, set Oliver on a path that could have led to the rest of it being destroyed by Ra's, and resurrected Savage which will lead to its complete destruction in the future.  I want him to gleefully tell her that she's working with a guy that will doom her city (because he already knows that she is BC) and she might want to consider if he's (Darhk) not the better choice.  Then I want her to tell Oliver all this before deciding she's going to go help Nyssa kill the dude. 

 

Also, I think we should have a wishful thinking thread that is dedicated purely to ways Malcolm should die.

Edited by nksarmi
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

I was so excited for the front half of Arrow S4. Now this back half I look upon with caution and dread. How can they always do at least decently in the front and always come back after their hiatus and undo all the good of the first half with a trashy, lazily written, not well thought out (IMO) back half? Unfortunately, I think everything from 4x13 until possibly 4x23 is going to be disappointing. Stephen has praised certain segments of episodes this season. I wonder what he has to say about the remaining ones.

 

Side note: Still think Stephen isn't promoting Arrow right now because he's knows a lot of fans are probably a little disappointed, a little pissed off, and just a little frustrated with the way Marc is developing his character to include Stephen himself. I'm sure it's hard to go out and talk positively about something you don't fully have your heart into or believe. Plus Stephen has a horrible poker face and it betrays him every time he doesn't want to or doesn't agree with questions he is being asked.

 

That's all! 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Just watched the "Sins Of The Father" clip again. Did I miss something with Laurel and Nyssa? Last time they were together Nyssa was begging Laurel not to dip Sara into the LP and Laurel was asking Nyssa how could she destroy the LP while Malcolm was having his goons drag Nyssa off to a dungeon cell. So how is it now  Laurel is suppose to have some sort of influence on/over Nyssa? Why would Nyssa listen to Laurel;

As well as black leather, Laurel's outfit contains a rather large amount of teflon. Nothing sticks to her for more than a couple of episodes.

 

I really think the man Felicity is telling Oliver to kill is Malcolm.  Felicity is OUR voice!  She must be heard!

 

 

I think that Oliver will kill the "him: Felicity is referring to, because it's her asking, but I don't think they're ready to let Malcolm go yet.  They've killed important characters (Tommy, Moira, Sara) but never two in the same season.  We were all expecting Sara to die at the end of s2 but they waited until s3 to do it.

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