Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

He's definitely working on something - he went through some of his inventions with Felicity - there was the T sphere, an HD contact lens, some other stuff. That was in ep 3, I think. I don't think there's been more than an offhand reference since then.

Yeah, I remember 403 but i don't think that's what they were talking about.  I assumed they were talking about 410 because it came up in a recent discussion.  I don't remember anything with Curtis from 409 about it.  Maybe it was just a misunderstanding?

[wonderwall]

I'm hoping HIVE won't exist past this season. Otherwise I 'll feel cheated. If they just take out Darhk at the end of the day, how much does it accomplish? Somebody else will just take his place given the organisation HIVE is.

 

Really? I can honestly see S4 being about taking down Darhk because he's a considerable foe... I can see TA not being very informed about how deep HIVE goes. Not to mention if HIVE stays, it's likely Diggle does too. I honestly can't see them taking down the entirety of HIVE this season. There just isn't enough time left in the season what with all the drama going on etc. 

 

S5 may be about killing Malcolm and taking down HIVE too... I think that definitely could work. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I remember 403 but i don't think that's what they were talking about.  I assumed they were talking about 410 because it came up in a recent discussion.  I don't remember anything with Curtis from 409 about it.  Maybe it was just a misunderstanding?

 

I think it might be a misunderstanding - he wasn't in 4x10, and in 4x09, we only got to see him at the Queen Campaign holiday party. Before that I think the last time we saw him was when he helped rescue Ray, but I don't recall any of his tech coming up then.

[bijoux]

But isn't HIVE one of those DC Comics organizations that exist perpetually - like ARGUS and the LOA?

 

I'm not a comic reader so I don't know.

 

Really? I can honestly see S4 being about taking down Darhk because he's a considerable foe... I can see TA not being very informed about how deep HIVE goes. Not to mention if HIVE stays, it's likely Diggle does too. I honestly can't see them taking down the entirety of HIVE this season. There just isn't enough time left in the season what with all the drama going on etc. 

 

S5 may be about killing Malcolm and taking down HIVE too... I think that definitely could work.

That's my gut instinct, yes. At the very least I want something more than Darhk and faceless brainwashed Ghosts. Have the team at least fracture HIVE's leadership so they have to scramble for a while to regroup. I do think they still have time to do it since the season's villain was introduced at this point in the previous seasons. And we've seen some members of the leadership at least. Ok, I'll give them that guy that has been flying under everyone's radar for years now, the one who snarked at DD during Oliver's press conference. He can remain standing to villain another day at the end of the season, but he'd have to deal with the organization being in a frenzy and completely pissed at Darhk. Damien, you pratt. You never could do anything right.

[Morrigan2575]

Looks like my spec about Nyssa using the marriage to get Oliver's support again Malcolm was on point.  

 

Also, apparently Oliver carries Felicity around, a lot.  Which seems kind of stupid to me.

[bijoux]

Also, apparently Oliver carries Felicity around, a lot.  Which seems kind of stupid to me.

They misquoted what SA said at the panel. He said sometimes or some, I'm positivie it wasn't 'a lot'. So it could come down to what we've seen in the promo.

[Sakura12]

I still don't know why Nyssa has to ask Oliver to go after a mass murdering psycho that is responsible for his best friends death and brainwashed his sister into killing a family friend. That he left in charge of a group of assassins. 

[AyChihuahua]

I still don't know why Nyssa has to ask Oliver to go after a mass murdering psycho that is responsible for his best friends death and brainwashed his sister into killing a family friend. That he left in charge of a group of assassins. 

And his father's death, Oliver's years of hell, Oliver's sojourn in the LOA with associated torture, Walter's kidnapping and implied torture, and threats to kill his mother and sister.

[Morrigan2575]

I still don't know why Nyssa has to ask Oliver to go after a mass murdering psycho that is responsible for his best friends death and brainwashed his sister into killing a family friend. That he left in charge of a group of assassins. 

Because Malcolm isn't bad, he's just drawn that way.

[Primal Slayer]

I still don't know why Nyssa has to ask Oliver to go after a mass murdering psycho that is responsible for his best friends death and brainwashed his sister into killing a family friend. That he left in charge of a group of assassins. 

He has to protect Thea, her feelings, and her soul. If her sperm donater dies then she has no "father" that will constantly check in on her. Blood is very important to Oliver.

[Sunshine]

Looks like my spec about Nyssa using the marriage to get Oliver's support again Malcolm was on point.  

 

Also, apparently Oliver carries Felicity around, a lot.  Which seems kind of stupid to me.

First, I am going to apologize for trying to apply logic here.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense for Nyssa to approach Oliver and tell him if he helps her get control of the LOA she will help him with the ghosts/HIVE?  Malcolm has already said he can't afford for the LOA to go up against HIVE.   All she has to do is greet him as "husband" and is overheard by whomever is keeping tabs on him for Dhark?  Which is probably how they know about secret son. Double debate whammy!  Nyssa has to know the marriage holds no weight with Oliver.  He wouldn't have proposed to Felicity if he thought he was married regardless of how Nyssa thinks of it.

 

Speaking of debate and secrets coming out...Is this the end of the campaign?  IF Dhark goes down in 4.15 will Ruve take over the Star City operations?  Do they find out she is Dharks wife? (Have they said in show that she is or have we all just assumed?)    

Edited January 25, 2016 by Sunshine

[AyChihuahua]

First, I am going to apologize for trying to apply logic here.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense for Nyssa to approach Oliver and tell him if he helps her get control of the LOA she will help him with the ghosts/HIVE?  Malcolm has already said he can't afford for the LOA to go up against HIVE.   All she has to do is greet him as "husband" and is overheard by whomever is keeping tabs on him for Dhark?  Which is probably how they know about secret son. Double debate whammy!  Nyssa has to know the marriage holds no weight with Oliver.  He wouldn't have proposed to Felicity if he thought he was married regardless of how Nyssa thinks of it.    

DO NOT APPLY LOGIC TO ANY S3-ORIGINATED STORYLINE.

 

The whole thing only happened because of RAG's plot-related sudden-onset homophobia and misogyny. She was gay, and a woman, for years and was still the Heir to the Demon. It only became a problem when plotty plot plotted because Guggie is a moron.

 

Re Ruve, didn't Oliver save Ruve in 4.10, so he'd know she's Darhk's wife?

[Morrigan2575]

First, I am going to apologize for trying to apply logic here.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense for Nyssa to approach Oliver and tell him if he helps her get control of the LOA she will help him with the ghosts/HIVE?  Malcolm has already said he can't afford for the LOA to go up against HIVE.   All she has to do is greet him as "husband" and is overheard by whomever is keeping tabs on him for Dhark?  Which is probably how they know about secret son. Double debate whammy!  Nyssa has to know the marriage holds no weight with Oliver.  He wouldn't have proposed to Felicity if he thought he was married regardless of how Nyssa thinks of it.

 

Speaking of debate and secrets coming out...Is this the end of the campaign?  IF Dhark goes down in 4.15 will Ruve take over the Star City operations?  Do they find out she is Dharks wife? (Have they said in show that she is or have we all just assumed?)    

The marriage is apparently going to play a pivotal role (according to the article posted in the spoiler only thread).  Why else would it be a major plot point if it wasn't something Nyssa uses to get Oliver to turn on Malcolm?  

 

and his Season 3 marriage to Nyssa al Ghul (recurring star Katrina Law), “will actually play a pivotal role coming up.”

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Primal Slayer]

I can't even see Oliver caring that they are "married" to use as some guilt trip on him. Maybe he feels guilty since him infiltrating the LoA caused their marriage? 

[apinknightmare]

The marriage is apparently going to play a pivotal role (according to the article posted in the spoiler only thread).  Why else would it be a major plot point if it wasn't something Nyssa uses to get Oliver to turn on Malcolm?  

 

Unless she tries to claim there's some LoA magical bond over them that will somehow injure one or both of them if he tries to marry someone else (LOLOLOL), I'm not sure what kind of leverage this marriage is worth. 

[Guest]

Oh, this could play into my crack theory that Nyssa offers to help Felicity walk again. OR, more logically, she knows about whatever is giving DD his magic tricks. LOL.

[Morrigan2575]

Unless she tries to claim there's some LoA magical bond over them that will somehow injure one or both of them if he tries to marry someone else (LOLOLOL), I'm not sure what kind of leverage this marriage is worth. 

Guilt? Since he got her roped into that situation in the first place?  Honor?  The show expects me to believe that Oliver felt honor bound to keep his promise to Baby Mama maybe they'll use the same lame ass excuse to explain this.  Maybe she uses it as a bargaining chip?  Help me get the LOA back and you can be co-ruler (in abstensia) and can use the LOA to go after HIVE?

 

I just honestly can't think of any other reason how the Nyssa/Oliver marriage plays a pivotal role.

 

I would love to pretend the marriage never happened but the show refuses to let it go.  I'd much prefer Nyssa just offer to support Oliver against HIVE if Oliver helps her get control.  I'd also love it if Nyssa offers to "cure" Felicity (real or fake) in exchange for help.

 

ETA: Weird this board just ate half my post.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Sunshine]

DO NOT APPLY LOGIC TO ANY S3-ORIGINATED STORYLINE.

 

The whole thing only happened because of RAG's plot-related sudden-onset homophobia and misogyny. She was gay, and a woman, for years and was still the Heir to the Demon. It only became a problem when plotty plot plotted because Guggie is a moron.

 

Re Ruve, didn't Oliver save Ruve in 4.10, so he'd know she's Darhk's wife?

Yes. Sorry I forgot about that.  So now my question becomes does he know just how involved/ruthless she is?

[dtissagirl]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they use the "marriage" as opposition attack on Oliver in the election storyline. Mostly because I can't see how else the marriage matters in anyway to Oliver.

[AyChihuahua]

Yes. Sorry I forgot about that.  So now my question becomes does he know just how involved/ruthless she is?

Oh, it was a real question. I am not currently watching, just keeping up with events, so I wasn't sure he'd seen her or connected her to Darhk, I just had the impression that he had.

 

Re Nyssa, who knows. It's all so dumb that it seems impossible to anticipate.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they use the "marriage" as opposition attack on Oliver in the election storyline. Mostly because I can't see how else the marriage matters in anyway to Oliver.

I mean, if the secret marriage and secret kid both come out publicly, I'd think his campaign would be over. BUT, as apinknightmare has pointed out, Moira helped destroy half the city and her campaign was going gangbusters until she died. So who the hell knows.

I really don't want either/both to come out publicly. Really hope it's whispered in Oliver's ear, bc OH MY GOD how humiliating for Felicity.

[Sakura12]

I just want to know if anyone is going to tell Nyssa that Sara's back to her sort of old self and is off time traveling. 

[Sunshine]

Didn't someone say she is in 4.15? Perhaps her pivotal role comes into play with whatever happens with Dhark that has never happened with a villain before?

For Oliver to turn on Malcolm at this point there has to be something big in play on Nyssa's end. A cure for Felicity might be it but LOA help with Dhark would be even bigger. This could be why Malcolm goes darker late in 4B.

[Morrigan2575]

Nyssa is in 412, 413 and 415.  But given the episode description for 413 and the interviews with WM I would think that whatever the pivotal role is, it comes into play in 413.

[lexicon]

I just want to know if anyone is going to tell Nyssa that Sara's back to her sort of old self and is off time traveling. 

 

I think there was an article where it was stated that when Nyssa returns they weren't really going to deal with the Sara of it all.

 

So as far as past storylines go we're definitely reviving the lame-gross-for dumb plot reasons-valid only in NP 'marriage' between Oliver and Nyssa but avoiding all talk of her once dead but now resurrected love of her life, which continues the trend of dumb this how has going. 

[Sunshine]

I just want to know if anyone is going to tell Nyssa that Sara's back to her sort of old self and is off time traveling. 

Laurel and Nyssa are supposed to have a conversation of some type to clear the air I think.  She might tell her then.

[lexicon]

 

 

Edited to remove duplicate post 

Edited January 25, 2016 by lexicon

[looptab]

The fact that all this is going on in 13 makes me kinda wary of how they'll deal with Calculator. So is Felicity once again off on another show?

[dtissagirl]

I mean, if the secret marriage and secret kid both come out publicly, I'd think his campaign would be over.

 

This is pure spec, but I think if they intend to write Oliver losing the election, then it would make sense for it to happen in 415. So he'd lose the election + lose Felicity in one swoop.

 

And Mrs DD elected Mayor going into the hiatus between 415 and 416 is the kind of thing this show likes to do. That's the time of the season when the villains are "winning".

 

No idea, though.

Edited January 25, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Sakura12]

Laurel and Nyssa are supposed to have a conversation of some type to clear the air I think.  She might tell her then.

 

So Nyssa is going to tell Laurel how awesome she is and thank her for giving Sara a second chance at life as a bloodthirsty time traveler.

[apinknightmare]

And Mrs DD elected Mayor going into the hiatus between 415 and 416 is the kind of thing this show likes to do. That's the time of the season when the villains are "winning". 

 

So there's for sure not an ep on 3/2? I'll be on a flight that evening. How handy!

Edited January 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

So there's for sure not an ep on 3/2? I'll be on a flight that evening. How handy!

They've only set dates until 415 so far, but that's when they usually skip a week or two, so I'm assuming it's happening.

[Morrigan2575]

Going by S3 schedule 3/2 and 3/9 should be repeats.  

[nksarmi]

So Nyssa is going to tell Laurel how awesome she is and thank her for giving Sara a second chance at life as a bloodthirsty time traveler.

 

I will just be happy if poor Nyssa gets to find out that they restored Sara's soul.  I don't know if she would be grateful to Laurel, but I do think she will be happy to know that Sara is closer to "whole" than she last saw her.  

 

I very much enjoy Nyssa whenever we get her, but I have to say that I wish she left the league and was operating as a bounty hunter or something right now.  Watching her "submit" to MM last season (after he killed the love of her life) was one of the most sickening things I've ever had to watch this show do.  I want her to kill him so bad - not Oliver. 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by nksarmi

[hogwash]

IT'S PROOF! LAUREL AND OLIVER ARE DEFINITELY GETTING BACK TOGETHER!!1! Sorry. Couldn't resist. The boxing is still a thing? Huh.

[Morrigan2575]

dp...no idea what's going on with this site

Edited January 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Ugh...... The new promo photos... Laurel is everywhere. This isn't even supposed to be her episode -_-

 

Honestly I think I'm just veering away from apathy onto permanent bitterness with her character. Like just seeing her makes me roll my eyes and smh. 

 

But if that's what KC called sparring... Okay then...

[HighHopes]

Re: The promo images for this week's episode. 

 

REALLY? Not even one with Felicity? Were they sent out before 4x10 aired or something? And they wanted to keep the "does Felicity survive?" thing going? 

 

I don't care too much about the Laurel/Oliver training scene, I mean that was going to come eventually so I was expecting it. But putting it in the episode after Felicity finds out she's paralyzed- possibly for life?? REALLY? There is already enough of the claims (from portions of the L/O and S/O shippers) that Felicity isn't strong enough/an equal to Oliver because she can't physically fight. And so after Felicity finds out she can't walk..they put in a scene of Laurel/Oliver being "equals"?? 

 

If they had thrown in one or two still of Felicity I don't think I would be so angry/disappointed. But they didn't. So either that means that again Felicity is going to barely have screen time or (hopefully) her storyline is to awesome to spoil. I have a feeling it's more of the former and not the latter though. 

 

(I don't know why I expect more from this show) 

[Guest]

Um...not a single picture of Felicity? GTFO with that crap. This is supposed to be her episode. Waaaaaah. *Glares*

 

No but seriously though, she better only be isolated for this episode. I'm not liking how separate she is right now. Fingers crossed it's only for 411. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

If they had thrown in one or two still of Felicity I don't think I would be so angry/disappointed. But they didn't. So either that means that again Felicity is going to barely have screen time or (hopefully) her storyline is to awesome to spoil. I have a feeling it's more of the former and not the latter though. 

 

(I don't know why I expect more from this show) 

 

It's no secret the CW Arrow spends overtime promoting Laurel... Look at their twitter page. Smh

[Morrigan2575]

I know this is been stated multiple times before.  The Photographers are sent to location and take pictures of what's filming the 1 or 2 days they are on set.  There is no conspiracy or preference, no we want pics of these characters/actors only.  Hell, I just read somewhere that The CW only employs like 1 or 2 Photographers for all of their shows.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

I mean, if the secret marriage and secret kid both come out publicly, I'd think his campaign would be over. BUT, as apinknightmare has pointed out, Moira helped destroy half the city and her campaign was going gangbusters until she died. So who the hell knows.

I really don't want either/both to come out publicly. Really hope it's whispered in Oliver's ear, bc OH MY GOD how humiliating for Felicity.

 

I don't think the secret marriage is going to come out publicly. I'd wondered what the point of the LOA marriage was other than as a "gotcha" and an illustration of how "evil" Ra's was. But now I think it's meant to tie Nyssa to Oliver because they were shipping Sara off to another show. And I don't mean that in a romantic sense. If the LOA is still in play, they needed a stronger link to for Oliver and Nyssa and the marriage, ridiculous as it is, provides that excuse. Laurel, as always, doesn't really count as a link when it comes to Oliver as she's got no influence on him or his actions.

[hogwash]

Someone managed to find a stupider helmet than Diggle's. Cool. All the Lyla seems promising. 

[calliope1975]

This whole LOA marriage stuff makes me irrationally ragey! As has been stated, Nyssa has a thousand and one reasons to obtain Oliver & Co.'s help; there's no need to keep bringing up this mockery of a marriage. It annoys me, but I'm fine with Nyssa's occasional quips; I don't need or want anything more than that.

[lexicon]

I don't care too much about the Laurel/Oliver training scene, I mean that was going to come eventually so I was expecting it. But putting it in the episode after Felicity finds out she's paralyzed- possibly for life?? REALLY? There is already enough of the claims (from portions of the L/O and S/O shippers) that Felicity isn't strong enough/an equal to Oliver because she can't physically fight. And so after Felicity finds out she can't walk..they put in a scene of Laurel/Oliver being "equals"?? 

 

I guess this must have just screamed organic to MG. 

[AyChihuahua]

Each time there's a disappointing episode, people start looking forward to the next, thinking it will be good. That happens sometimes (I loved 4.3, and I know a lot of people loved 4.9), but to me the show does not deserve the optimism.

However, it does also seem totally possible that they sent the pics out when they were still operating under the silly (and, it turns out, totally anticlimactic) "DOES FELICITY SURVIVE" thing. There almost has to be at least 10 minutes of Felicity stuff in this episode.

Also, I like Waller. I mean, I don't like her, but I enjoy her. I think the actress is excellent. So hey, something positive! (Still not watching the ep, though.)

[Guest]

At least there was plenty of Diggle though, which is something. Is this the episode with Diggle/Andy flashbacks? 

[Morrigan2575]

Yes

[wonderwall]

*sigh* this week has been really tough on me so I'm a bit... mood swingy. 

 

Thinking about it. I'm okay with the promo pics. Felicity got the extended promo to herself. That's what counts more tbh because that's what casual viewers usually only see.

 

ETA: I still stand by what I said about LL. She's a dark cloud looming over the show for me. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

I imagine that Felicity is going to pretty contained at that Loft.

I wouldn't consider that sparring. I have to laugh at Olivers expression in that first image. He looks so bored and unimpressed.

The Lyla and Laurel actually pissed me off though. We haven't had a scene with Felicity and the Diggles at all yet. However, that Sara wheelchair clip does kind of imply that we should get the Diggles at the Loft.

[bijoux]

I wouldn't consider that sparring. I have to laugh at Olivers expression in that first image. He looks so bored and unimpressed.

 

I laughed as well. His impression is totally I don't want to be here. Other than that, all my observations are on wardrobe. Lyla's coat is bangin' and puts me in mind of spys of yesteryear, that shade of blue really complements Laurel's skin tone, I haven't noticed that Thea's undershirt or whatever is see through (it makes so much sense) and Andy's uniform is very stylized.