Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

There are so many interviews out that I can't easily find it - did WM say that there weren't going to be any more FFs the season? I could've sworn I read that. If so, seems like Thea's in the hospital at some point in the near future?

[AyChihuahua]

I think she said no more FFs "coming up" or something like that. Something quite a bit looser than no more this season, period.

[Starfish35]

It's from the EW interview posted in the Spoilers thread:

Will we see other flash forwards that reveal more information about the cemetery scene? And are you basically saying that it’s going to happen in the finale?

We try to leave the timeline a little bit open. We went back and forth about what timeline that was. It’ll be close to the finale. Right now, the plans are not to have it in the finale, but we won’t be doing any more flash forwards going forward. We wanted to revisit that and have a little fun with the audience in terms of noting where Oliver and Felicity are, emotionally and physically — they’re in a limo outside the gravesite. We have no plans, at this point, to do anymore of those.

[tv echo]

Deleted.

Edited January 21, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Jinx - sorry tv echo!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Starfish35

[Guest]

I thought that the death happened with enough episodes afterwards so that all the characters could react and deal with it? That's why we all thought it would happen around 419/420. 

 

Also, I'm starting to think that the season will end with O/F still apart romantically. I just wonder if them getting back together would be a repeat of the end of s3?  

[Starfish35]

I could see it going either way. But if they end the season apart, and then season five is them finding their way back to each other, then the whole "wedding in 100" is off the table I think. Wedding at the end of five maybe?

[wonderwall]

She said closer to the finale... I still think it's 419/420. That's close enough to the finale tbh. Plus 420 is when Moira died... Lots of major stuff happens then so I think that'll be when the character bites the dust.

[Guest]

I could see it going either way. But if they end the season apart, and then season five is them finding their way back to each other, then the whole "wedding in 100" is off the table I think. Wedding at the end of five maybe?

 

An episode 100 wedding would be fun and a reason to have the other characters around but I just don't know anymore. But I can already picture SDCC 2016 and all the "Will Olicity get back together?" and "Where do they go from here?" type questions. Like it or not, their relationship creates buzz. 

[apinknightmare]

Jinx - sorry tv echo!

Deleted.

Thank you!

[dtissagirl]

I'm still placing my bets the death is in 420. These writers' idea of the characters having time to deal with the consequences averages about half an episode anyway. That leaves them 2.5 episodes for a resolution to the big bad, and other relationship woes.

Edited January 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[way2interested]

An episode 100 wedding would be fun and a reason to have the other characters around but I just don't know anymore. But I can already picture SDCC 2016 and all the "Will Olicity get back together?" and "Where do they go from here?" type questions. Like it or not, their relationship creates buzz. 

Gotta say, the idea that SA is contracted until a possible s7 did kind of spin me towards that idea as well. Who knows? I steel myself for all of the options, no matter how logical or illogical they are, and just wait to see what happens. Although, surprisingly enough, so far (barring 408) Stephen and Emily got me sold on all of their relationship aspects, drama or otherwise, so I partially wonder if somehow I'll be ok with it? I mean, the proposal went better than I thought, the "I don't want to be a woman that you love" worked better than I thought, so it might be alright either way.

[Chaser]

Don't know how to link on mobile, but KC did a short interview with comic book.com.

She said that Oliver and Laurel spar and that its one of her favorite scenes. I think we saw a glimpse of it in the sizzle reel - the part were she is telling Oliver what happened to Felicity is on DD.

She mentioned Laurel in the courtroom again. Laurel being the backbone to the Team and her embracing someone one you wouldn't think she would.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm still placing my bets the death is in 420. These writers' idea of the characters having time to deal with the consequences averages about half an episode anyway. That leaves them 2.5 episodes for a resolution to the big bad, and other relationship woes.

I'd be okay with them reconciling over 2.5-ish episodes. Huge improvement over the five whole minutes they got in S3.

[lemotomato]

Don't know how to link on mobile, but KC did a short interview with comic book.com.

She said that Oliver and Laurel spar and that its one of her favorite scenes. I think we saw a glimpse of it in the sizzle reel - the part were she is telling Oliver what happened to Felicity is on DD.

She mentioned Laurel in the courtroom again. Laurel being the backbone to the Team and her embracing someone one you wouldn't think she would.

I have so many snarky things to say, but most of it would probably get me into trouble, so...

Edit: Of course the sparring scene with Oliver was her favorite. She's been shamelessly begging for one since she was given the BC title, actual stunt ability be damned.

Edited January 21, 2016 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

Don't know how to link on mobile, but KC did a short interview with comic book.com.

She said that Oliver and Laurel spar and that its one of her favorite scenes. I think we saw a glimpse of it in the sizzle reel - the part were she is telling Oliver what happened to Felicity is on DD.

She mentioned Laurel in the courtroom again. Laurel being the backbone to the Team and her embracing someone one you wouldn't think she would.

 

lol. No.

 

Also aren't Laurel's fights /always/ her stunt double? It'll be interesting to see her spar session w/ Oliver without the stunt double.

Edited January 21, 2016 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

Don't know how to link on mobile, but KC did a short interview with comic book.com.

She said that Oliver and Laurel spar and that its one of her favorite scenes. I think we saw a glimpse of it in the sizzle reel - the part were she is telling Oliver what happened to Felicity is on DD.

.

.

.

.

Oh you mean physically sparring! *facepalm* Wow that went straight over my head. I was thinking verbal sparring and was like "but we just saw that".

Well. That should be....interesting.

As for the rest...RME. Never change KC.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

"She's in training, and fighting. I feel as if she's become a lot stronger emotionally as well. I think that continues to go that direction. I feel like she's the backbone for a lot of these characters, and she tries to see the best in people, and she is a strong woman, and I love that. I think that we continue to see more of that. I think you'll see someone come along who you don't necessarily expect Laurel to embrace, and she does. Having said that, that's all I can tell you."

[Starfish35]

I wonder when that was done, because I'm wondering if she means Donna. One might not necessarily expect Laurel to be as open to her dad's new girlfriend as they had her being.

[Chaser]

I took backbone to mean that she has no storyline so she is just supporting everyone else's.

I'm dreading the sparring session tho. Oliver has sparred with everyone else so it isn't new, but I do not what to hear it's breadcrumbs. I also don't want to watch them on equal footing. It doesn't work for me.

Curious about the person she embraces. I'm trying to think who that could be. Vixen? But I don't know why that's a surprise. BM? I don't know what to think of that. Maybe Nyssa? Would you embrace a 'friend' you helped lock up.

I wonder when that was done, because I'm wondering if she means Donna. One might not necessarily expect Laurel to be as open to her dad's new girlfriend as they had her being.

The writer just said he spoke to her ahead of the Con this weekend. It could have been before the last episode. I could see Donna fitting that. It was literally like two Twitter questions so it could have been this morning and he typed it up fast and posted it.

[wonderwall]

It's definitely interesting to see her POV that's for sure. 

 

I particularly don't think she's emotionally stronger considering the whole resurrection fiasco... Which is something what someone who's incredibly emotionally weak would do. That was a huge setback for her and I don't see her growing in that regard considering we never get Laurel's PoV on anything. 

 

I don't think she's strong at all. Not physically (she's the weakest of the bunch bar Felicity), not emotionally (as I've stated before), not mentally (she tends to be really wishy washy with her morality). 

 

As for the backbone of the team... Yeah I think we'll see her be more in the background and supporting her teammates. But everyone else does that too... And IMO Felicity is more of the backbone of the team considering she's been extremely supportive of everyone on the team since day 1. Idk how anyone can be the backbone of the team if no one really listens to her. I wonder if that's going to change... 

 

As for someone who comes along that we didn't necessarily expect Laurel embrace... I thought it was Donna at first. But maybe it's baby mama... Who knows. Weirder things have happened. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by wonderwall

[Guest]

Backbone? Um. Okay then.

 

All I took from that is that Laurel's going to be having supportive pep talks with everyone on the team at different moments while the people I actually want to see interact will just pass each other by. Hint DELICITY hint hint.

 

Oh and she'll definitely embrace the baby mama because she'll be seen as sooooo supportive while in contrast Felicity feels betrayed and angry. Can see that coming a mile away. 

 

That said I'll take it with a pinch of salt because KC.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Guest

[AyChihuahua]

Wow, I didn't even think about her "embracing" Baby Mama. Who cheated with Oliver when Oliver was, as far as we know, publicly in a relationship with Laurel. That'd be...really weird.

 

I'm hoping she was referring to Donna. Even Vixen (although Vixen doesn't seem like someone it'd be surprising for her to embrace).

[Sunshine]

Assuming Little Willie makes an appearance she might embrace him.  She has had several scenes where they have had her helping a kid - the little boy at the train station and the little girl at the bay cleanup. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Sunshine

[Chaser]

The interview was done last night. I don't think she was talking Donna. She says the person comes along.

If it's Olivers kid, I will have no words. Well, no nice words.

[hogwash]

If it's the BM or kid, this is gonna be dumber than when she gave dating advice to Sara. 

[wonderwall]

The interview was done last night. I don't think she was talking Donna. She says the person comes along.

If it's Olivers kid, I will have no words. Well, no nice words.

 

You know, if she's the one that embraces the kid, maybe she's the one who sides with Oliver about lying to Felicity... Which somewhat makes sense considering her first instinct is to lie.

 

Lol... Imagine the backlash on her character. And imagine the backlash on Oliver. You know you're wrong when Laurel thinks what you're doing is right. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

"She's in training, and fighting. I feel as if she's become a lot stronger emotionally as well. I think that continues to go that direction. I feel like she's the backbone for a lot of these characters, and she tries to see the best in people, and she is a strong woman, and I love that. I think that we continue to see more of that. I think you'll see someone come along who you don't necessarily expect Laurel to embrace, and she does. Having said that, that's all I can tell you."

Lol. Where's the storyline in the middle of the word salad?

[jay741982]

You know, if she's the one that embraces the kid, maybe she's the one who sides with Oliver about lying to Felicity... Which somewhat makes sense considering her first instinct is to lie.

 

Lol... Imagine the backlash on her character. And imagine the backlash on Oliver. You know you're wrong when Laurel thinks what you're doing is right.

Ill hate the writers with a passion if Laurel encourages Oliver to lie to Felicity. The Laurviver vs Olicity Crap will flare up again and ignorance of "How dare Felicity be mad Oliver kept that from her" will happen.

[Chaser]

KC doesn't read the audience well so the 'surprise' could be weak. If they want the audience to understand Oliver, Laurel is not the person that springs to mind.

How does it look if the ex-girlfriend encouraged the former boyfriend to lie to his fiancé? And that ex-girlfriend is good friends with the fiancé? How does that not read manipulation or a vindictive nature? KC couldn't even pull off caring about Thea during the Sara episodes.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Chaser

[AyChihuahua]

Lol. Where's the storyline in the middle of the word salad?

There's actually more word salad. I didn't copy/paste the whole thing.

 

Still don't think she's in the grave, though. Honestly, still think it's Quentin. Felicity really liked him in S2, we're supposed to have forgotten the manhunt, etc., in S3, and he's dating her mom. 

 

PLEASE let "him" be MM, and let him die. S5 will suffice, but I need him to die.

[lemotomato]

Assuming Little Willie makes an appearance she might embrace him. She has had several scenes where they have had her helping a kid - the little boy at the train station and the little girl at the bay cleanup.

Maybe he meets her while she's BC, and he tells her she's his second favorite superhero, thereby cementing this storyline as truly the worst. Thing. Ever.

BM is a good guess for who Laurel surprising embraces, especially if they meet while trying to rescue her son. Even Laurel can be compassionate under those circumstances. She should be directing any anger at Oliver, anyway, for cheating. For all we know, Oliver told BM that he was on a break from Laurel when they slept together.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe he meets her while she's BC, and he tells her she's his second favorite superhero, thereby cementing this storyline as truly the worst. Thing. Ever.

 

Fingers crossed she winks at him!

[AyChihuahua]

How does it look if the ex-girlfriend encouraged the former boyfriend to lie to his fiancé? And that ex-girlfriend is good friends with the fiancé? How does that not read manipulation or a vindictive nature? KC couldn't even pull off caring about Thea during the Sara episodes.

Do you really think they'd do that? That'd really be throwing Laurel under the bus. One of the VERY FEW things they've consistently gotten right is that Felicity has mostly not been jealous, and Laurel hasn't seemed jealous.

[AyChihuahua]

BM is a good guess for who Laurel surprising embraces, especially if they meet while trying to rescue her son. Even Laurel can be compassionate under those circumstances. She should be directing any anger at Oliver, anyway, for cheating. For all we know, Oliver told BM that he was on a break from Laurel when they slept together.

We really can't assume they were on a break without some kind of evidence. He was a total cheater, and he was with Laurel fairly shortly after sleeping with BM. I think BM knew exactly what she was doing. It's not like we otherwise have evidence that she's a good person.

[dtissagirl]

I think it can be Donna, regardless of when the interview was done? Maybe they'll interact some more in the coming episodes.

[Chaser]

Oliver totally cheated on Laurel with BM. His mother thought Laurel when Oliver said he got a girl pregnant and than in the same episode he did that gross lap crawl to Laurel for comfort.

 

Fingers crossed she winks at him!

He could ask for a BC action figure. 

 

I think it can be Donna, regardless of when the interview was done? Maybe they'll interact some more in the coming episodes.

I could see Donna, what with the obvious personality differences and dating Laurel's Dad. Vixen makes no sense and I don't really understand why they would want Laurel and BMD to interact behind a nice to meet you handshake (which it very well could be something as simple as that). 

[calliope1975]

Maybe he meets her while she's BC, and he tells her she's his second favorite superhero, thereby cementing this storyline as truly the worst. Thing. Ever.

BM is a good guess for who Laurel surprising embraces, especially if they meet while trying to rescue her son. Even Laurel can be compassionate under those circumstances. She should be directing any anger at Oliver, anyway, for cheating. For all we know, Oliver told BM that he was on a break from Laurel when they slept together.

 

I can totally see this, and it's hilariously bad. Perhaps DA LL is brought in on the case of the missing kid. Why when it's not her jurisdiction? Hah! When has that mattered?! I'm sure there will be some masked rescue of said kid, too. Instead of being mad that Ollie was a cheating douche, she'll be serene and forgiving. 

 

In short, which episode is it I need to skip?

[apinknightmare]

I think it can be Donna, regardless of when the interview was done? Maybe they'll interact some more in the coming episodes.

 

Well, she literally embraced her, so...

[lemotomato]

Fingers crossed she winks at him!

After she gets to be the one that rescues him! The show hasn't let Oliver win a fight all season, so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even let him get to be the one to save his own son.

 

Oliver totally cheated on Laurel with BM. His mother thought Laurel when Oliver said he got a girl pregnant and than in the same episode he did that gross lap crawl to Laurel for comfort.

We the audience know he was cheating, but Ollie the scumbag could've told BM anything.

 

I can totally see this, and it's hilariously bad. Perhaps DA LL is brought in on the case of the missing kid. Why when it's not her jurisdiction? Hah! When has that mattered?! I'm sure there will be some masked rescue of said kid, too. Instead of being mad that Ollie was a cheating douche, she'll be serene and forgiving. 

 

In short, which episode is it I need to skip?

Episode 15, I think. 

[AyChihuahua]

Assuming Little Willie makes an appearance she might embrace him.  She has had several scenes where they have had her helping a kid - the little boy at the train station and the little girl at the bay cleanup. 

I'd be much more okay with the spawn than BM. I DO NOT WANT the spawn on the show, but in-show his character is totally innocent of his horrible mother's horrible behavior.

[Starfish35]

Oh no. Samantha never even occurred to me. That's totally who it's going to be. *facepalm*

This show.

[AyChihuahua]

We the audience know he was cheating, but Ollie the scumbag could've told BM anything.

I get that, but unless the show tells me she didn't know, I have no reason to believe she didn't. We don't even really know that h e and Laurel were on and off. They seemed, from her perspective, largely to be on. With copious cheating from him. 

 

I think of Ollie like Scott Disick, the American Psycho-looking guy who has impregnated one of the Kardashians. I do not follow Kardashian info, but I was well aware that he was with one of them. If I'd met him at a club in LA a year ago and thought about banging him, I would have been well aware that he was almost certainly cheating on whichever Kardashian he's with. Which would make me an accessory to cheating and kind of a ho. Not to mention, her ten years of lying PLUS snotty attitude about him knocking her up all lead me to believe she's a horrible, awful, terrible human being, who Laurel in particular should not embrace.

Edited January 22, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmeraldArcher]

It's definitely interesting to see her POV that's for sure. 

 

I particularly don't think she's emotionally stronger considering the whole resurrection fiasco... Which is something what someone who's incredibly emotionally weak would do. That was a huge setback for her and I don't see her growing in that regard considering we never get Laurel's PoV on anything. 

 

I don't think she's strong at all. Not physically (she's the weakest of the bunch bar Felicity), not emotionally (as I've stated before), not mentally (she tends to be really wishy washy with her morality). 

 

As for the backbone of the team... Yeah I think we'll see her be more in the background and supporting her teammates. But everyone else does that too... And IMO Felicity is more of the backbone of the team considering she's been extremely supportive of everyone on the team since day 1. Idk how anyone can be the backbone of the team if no one really listens to her. I wonder if that's going to change... 

 

 

The backbone thing is so bizarre, but it also jives with KC's history of making her character relevant by favorably contrasting LL to Felicity, "just the love interest" or transferring everything positive the audience feels about Felicity to LL. In 410, Oliver repeatedly mentioned Felicity's strength and bravery, and explicitly marveled to LL about how Felicity is so much stronger than the masks who go fight the assassins, etc.--he made her agree with him!  I'm really paraphrasing here because I can't access the scene right now, but it was when Oliver and LL were in Felicity's hospital room. So, I just think KC suffers from Jedi Syndrome in that she thinks she can control our minds and replace reality with her truth.

[lemotomato]

I get that, but unless the show tells me she didn't know, I have no reason to believe she didn't. We don't even really know that h e and Laurel were on and off. They seemed, from her perspective, largely to be on. With copious cheating from him.

I think of Ollie like Scott Disick, the American Psycho-looking guy who has impregnated one of the Kardashians. I do not follow Kardashian info, but I was well aware that he was with one of them. If I'd met him at a club in LA a year ago and thought about banging him, I would have been well aware that he was almost certainly cheating on whichever Kardashian he's with. Which would make me an accessory to cheating and kind of a ho. Not to mention, her ten years of lying PLUS snotty attitude about him knocking her up all lead me to believe she's a horrible, awful, terrible human being, who Laurel in particular should not embrace.

This could all be true. But then again, the show has never factored in logic or good storytelling when they want to make Laurel look good, and if she embraces BM, she'll come across as totally gracious and wonderful, compared to mean old BM, who kept Oliver away from his son, and mean old Felicity, who will be upset about the secret keeping and lying. Edited January 22, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

This could all be true. But then again, the show has never factored in logic or good storytelling when they want to make Laurel look good, and if she embraces BM, she'll come across as totally gracious and wonderful, compared to mean old BM, who kept Oliver away from his son, and mean old Felicity, who will be upset about the secret keeping and lying.

I really hope she meant Donna. Or the kid. I cannot handle my 2nd and 3rd least fave characters ever on this show bonding. 

[jay741982]

This could all be true. But then again, the show has never factored in logic or good storytelling when they want to make Laurel look good, and if she embraces BM, she'll come across as totally gracious and wonderful, compared to mean old BM, who kept Oliver away from his son, and mean old Felicity, who will be upset about the secret keeping and lying.

Yes cause Felicity should be happy He lied about Baby Mama SMH! I know you are being Sarcastic. Ill cheer Felicity on and anyone with some sense would cheer Felicity on. If Writers try to make it look like she's mean cause she has a right to be pissed her husband to be would do what a lying for nine years woman with her ridiculous demands wants they are fucked in the head.

[kismet]

@kismet - obviously this is TV not real life but i was curious as to your take on the paralysis explanation. Is/would Nerve damage be something hopeless as they're making it out to be?

If the spinal cord was severed or damaged beyond repair than as of right now with current medicine, there is no cure to fixing spinal cord damage. There are complete and incomplete nerve damage. A complete injury is permanent with no hope of improvement or recovery. A patient can have some function or sensation return with incomplete injuries, depending upon severity of the damage & other factors. However, most likely her injury was a penetration spinal cord injury caused by a bullet, and often those are generally complete injuries because the bullet severs the nerves. In my professional experience, I have only dealt with complete spinal cord injuries or injuries that needed more time to determine the extent of the damage while the body heals. Also the injuries I have dealt with have been a result of falls & auto accidents, so the mechanics of the injury are different. The gun shots tend to go to the trauma units, so I don't get to see those.

 

I have taken care of patients that have had nerve damage from structural issues related to the spinal column & disks or tumors. Those often require surgery or some other intervention, but the effects of the nerve damage eventually improve over time, but not in all cases or situations. Spinal Cord injuries & nerve damage can be very patient specific. How much function or sensation returns, depends on the severity of the nerve injury and how long the nerve has been compromised.

 

My recording missed out on the first 5 min or so of the show, so I'm not sure if or when they had the Doctors talk to FS &/or everyone. From what I saw on YouTube, it seems like the doctors have never talk to anyone on screen. So what the extent of the damage is, I don't think we know or will likely ever know. Spinal Cord injuries are highly specialized and very patient specific, and I doubt the writers cared to actually research injury prognosis and recovery. But it could be as severe and permanent as everyone on the show is saying. Often doctors are very hesitant to say that something is permanent or non-repairable. Considering multiple doctors have seen her, most likely we are supposed to believe that during surgery they were able to determine that the nerve damage can not be fixed and function cannot be restored. IRL, I could see them getting multiple opinions, but this is a TV Show with sometimes (ok often) crappy writers so they will want to keep it as vague as possible. However, I see the show going two ways. They will either have some miraculous recovery via magic or tech discovery (most likely). Or they could have FS & Donna be written as too dumb or stressed to have heard the doctors correctly.

 

IDK, perhaps it is why this story irritates me so much because its not about the injury or the recovery, it's about some dumb plot point. If it was going to promote or educate people about the challenging day to day for paralyzed people, I would be behind this story. But I've watched enough ARROW to know that this storyline will be thrown away just as hastily & with as little respect as it was dreamt up. They are talking a big game in the interviews about it being about the characters and their journeys, but we both know that is not what they are actually writing or producing. EBR & SA may elevate the story with their acting, but in the end it will be as inconsequential & irrelevant as 90% of Arrow's plotlines that are defined by their plotiness and completely bypasses all the potential for character growth & development.

 

ETA - Sorry, it took so long to get back to this question. I was really angry with last nights episode and frankly the whole plot so I needed some time to decompress before I went on a rant.

Edited January 22, 2016 by kismet

[kismet]

Possible HIMs:

 

- DD

- Malcolm

- Anarky

- Andy

- Felicity's father

- Alex

Personally, I wonder if the HIM is going to be the s5 Big Bad and therefore someone we have not met or has been revealed to be coming to the show. The fact that they moved the death and still seem kinda fuzzy on who is in the grave. I think there is a strong possibility that they don't even know who the killer actually is. Heck, at this point the killer could be a transgender or female villain and perhaps OQ & FS used the wrong the wrong gender by mistake.

[kismet]

Lol. Where's the storyline in the middle of the word salad?

When you have no storyline, all you have is word salad available to you...

 

Also in KC's defense, she is trying to make the best out of a really crappy character. I mean if you can't like the character you're hired to play it would make for really long shoots. What is she supposed to say? If she publicly disparages her character it reflects poorly on her, the writers, the show and could get her fired. So as logically, grammatically and content challenged as her answers are - there is not many options for her to talk about get character. Everybody wants steady work when they are an actor... I'd love to hear what she really thinks about her character when she is allowed to be more frank and honest.