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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Is anybody else afraid that LoT will undo the timeline events of the crossover and completely erase all the events that happened from xover to probably like 417-418 after Feb sweeps or right before May sweeps. Based upon the recent interview posted in spoiler section.

It would erase the lying; bm drama; engagement; FS paralysis; and stuff to be revealed that happens with dig, DD, MM & TQ.

It would create a clean slate for them to just plow through their plot in the final 5 episodes to defeat DD& HIVE. They could then pull a few character things to resolve or redo like the engagement. But skip the more problematic plots like BM & paralysis which have more residual or long term impacts on stuff in s5 they don't want to deal with.

It's crazy, but a can't help but wonder if the thing they've never done before is a complete plot line reset courtesy of LOT which has MG behind the wheel. He would never let Flash's timelines reset Arrow since it's not his show, but I can't help but wonder if it's just too tempting for him to not pass up the opportunity when he has the chance considering how much they focused on the Hawks in the crossover and he is running both shows.

Edited by kismet
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

I'm thinking no as well. MG said that they are doing something different with the villain, not with the show in general, which is already strange considering that they've already done something different with the villain for the season (introduce him right off the back as well as having him in almost every single episode so far). 

 

Kind of like bijoux said, they've set the drama up at this point, they can't just reset it. Any time stuff that is going on I feel will just stay self-contained in LoT, like with the Flash and their time travel episodes.

 

Although now I wonder if it is just MG overblowing the "something different" thing with the villain and it just ends up being something not that outrageous (i.e. Darhk working with Malcolm, Darhk needing Team Arrow's help, etc.). The only real outlandish different thing that I would see villain-wise would be if they killed Darhk off in 415, which I am kind of playing with theory-wise since MG did only refer to it as the "big bad" storyling rather than "we're doing something with Darhk that we've never done with a big bad before." 

Edited by way2interested
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

My gut tells me no. In the end, I think they do like the contrived drama so why would they go back on that and clean things up?

The logical part of my brain says that they won't reset it... But the suspicious part of my brain thinks they won't be able to resist it. Because if they reset everything they can just do it again next season... Honestly, it's only a concern at this point, I wouldn't put a lot of money behind it if I was betting... but I would put some money down as an extreme possibility.

 

Plus they probably imagine it would go down as one of those great TV moments like Dallas' it was all a dream... If there is one thing I know about MG it is that his EGO is larger than his talent and I can only imagine having two shows at his fingertips is making him a little ambitious to do something that goes down as memorable in the TV landscape. I love ARROW, but it is not a groundbreaking show no matter what MG keeps on telling himself. And the more the seasons the develop, the further it moves from ever having potential to be groundbreaking, especially when they default to melodrama at every turn.

Edited by kismet
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Plus they probably imagine it would go down as one of those great TV moments like Dallas' it was all a dream...

 

It's my understanding the Dallas, :"it was all a dream" thing was a result of them realizing what a huge fuck up they'd made of everything since they killed Bobby.  I can't see MG thinking that about Arrow. 

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kismet

kismet

It's my understanding the Dallas, :"it was all a dream" thing was a result of them realizing what a huge fuck up they'd made of everything since they killed Bobby.  I can't see MG thinking that about Arrow. 

I don't know because I barely ever watched Dallas since I was a little too young for it at the time it aired. Although I do feel I heard it was related to them realizing that they made a few big mistakes along the way. But I do know it's legendary regardless of why it happened. And I think MG wants to be legendary... but I could see it breaking either way since his EGO both wants to be legendary but also seems to lack the ability to self-reflect & appreciate constructive criticism that helps transform someone's work from ordinary to extraordinary to legendary. 

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DeadZeus

DeadZeus

I was thinking to myself. Do you guys think Oliver has lost his season 1 intensity because he's not a sociopath anymore? He was super focused on the list and correcting his father's wrings. It seems strange that he can't take down 12 dudes anymore (or maybe just because the other newbies have to look good) but Oliver has his butt handed to him often now.

Not so much "he's happy, it's Felicity's fault, you can't have a happy vigilante" but that ridiculous, laser focus he had to do what he needs no matter the cost (including killing).

Honestly i like S2-3 Oliver as much as S1. Because even though he stopped killing. His skills didn't deminish. I don't want S4 Oliver to start killing again perse. I just want him to stop falling on his ass every fight scene. Or getting shanked in the back by a cop... I'm almost certain Oliver won't kill this season.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Honestly i like S2-3 Oliver as much as S1. Because even though he stopped killing. His skills didn't deminish. I don't want S4 Oliver to start killing again perse. I just want him to stop falling on his ass every fight scene. Or getting shanked in the back by a cop... I'm almost certain Oliver won't kill this season.

Not even to fulfill his at the grave promise? 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Was thinking more about 4-15 being called Taken.  What if it's not WIlliam or DD's daughter, but Andy's son?  Has that been brought up for consideration?  Any buzz on the actress that played Carly being back or anything?  We did get a mention about Andy jr when Diggle brought pictures. 

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kismet

kismet

I don't mind if it is Andy Jr... but I don't really need to see Carly back. That was just awkward the whole Eskimo Brothering with your actual brother.

 

It could be Andy Jr, however I'm more inclined to think that if it is going to be a child it's going to be DD's. Because that could be a twist too & something new having the villain be a victim of a villainous thing.

 

Or it will probably just be an adult... most likely FS because everything bad seems to need to happen to her. And she's never officially been kidnapped just to be kidnapped before and they need to check off that box. All her other kidnappings have been part of a plan.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

And she's never officially been kidnapped just to be kidnapped before and they need to check off that box. All her other kidnappings have been part of a plan.

 

Except for her most recent kidnapping by Darhk of course.

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kismet

kismet

Except for her most recent kidnapping by Darhk of course.

To me that was more hostage taking than kidnapping. For me kidnapping has to be a little more on the sly. DD just came into a party and took 3 people hostage. If he had taken them not in plain sight than perhaps it might be considered a kidnapping.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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The actress that plays Samantha is definitely in Vancouver she posted pics of some market that she was at. She identified the place and it's in Vancouver.

She could be there for any number of reasons but I think that if anyone is taken it's probably William or William and Samantha

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Chasity

Chasity

I wish I shared your optimism. Sadly, I'm not at all convinced that the Baby Mama Drama will be so easily resolved :/

 I went and reread AK's interview after the crossover and this part made me think we are stuck with Baby Mama for a while. 

“Anna’s very talented and has many opportunities, and she really took a flyer on us when we said, ‘do this one scene for us in Season 2, and we promise in two years, we will make this a real part and have this really be part of the show,'” said Andrew Kreisberg.

 

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bijoux

bijoux

I wish I shared your optimism. Sadly, I'm not at all convinced that the Baby Mama Drama will be so easily resolved :/

 

Yeah, I've been gorging myself on delicious clips from The West Wing over the weekend which have put me in a zen like state? Right now I'm in the state of mind of 'oh, she's sticking around? Whatever.' This will likely change sooner rather than later. Or the cookie will crumble as I want it to and it will be revealed that she has a nefarious agenda, making her an interesting character.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

I went and reread AK's interview after the crossover and this part made me think we are stuck with Baby Mama for a while.

Yeah, that gives me pause, too. @bijoux, I swear I wasn't trying to disrupt your zen state:) and honestly I don't even know how I feel about it, it's that thing that I ignore until I can't anymore - like taxes. I'll wait to see how it plays. Edited by looptab
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kismet

kismet

You know I take solace in the fact that AK does not have a lot to do with the day to day show-running of Arrow anymore. So whatever he promised her may never come to pass.

 

I'm sure they promised CD, ST, CL and whole lot of other talent that they have burned through without much thought a lot of things... From hearing KC talk it seems like they promised her a lot and never delivered.

 

So I'll just have to sit tight about the whole BM drama. Honestly, if they took away the withholding the truth for plot. And cut of the melodrama, I wouldn't even mind having the BM & the kid come around every now and then. Fan fic has proven that BM, a kid & TA can exist in the same realm and not be a ridiculous poorly written melodramatic explosion. But I don't need them on a heavily recurring basis and I certainly don't want them brought in just so they can be kidnapped because that is just cheesy and pedestrian. However, like everything else in s4b it seems they are going out of their way to bring the melodrama on in spades. Who knows what they have in store for us.

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kes0704

kes0704

(edited)

The only "feels" I got from their scenes was what a horrible person she is and Oliver is an idiot. They might have been excited by what they saw but I wasn't excited about what ended up on my screen. I think of 408 as the worst episode of the season with so many things to truly dislike about it, the BM drama being one of them. I mean, how is it possible to write yet another character that comes across as instantly unlikeable?

It worries me that AK framed the BM actress as having a real role and real story and I agree that it makes it sound like the character is here to stay. However, I'm still holding onto the slim hope that the backlash from audience and media alike for the BM drama may have changed their plans and a one way trip to witness protection, never to be seen again, is now in their future.

Based on spoilers, I'm finding it hard to locate any enthusiasm for the upcoming episodes and I really fear that they will destroy the things I enjoy (Oliver/Felicity, OTA, Thea) and keep all the things I have zero interest in (BM/kid, LL).

Edited by kes0704
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looptab

looptab

So, are we having possible mostly flashback episode + BM+kid, + Oliver and Felicity possibly on a break, + possible Oliver/Poppy hookup, all wrapped up in one SPECTACULAR episode? I have a feeling this will be my favourite of the season.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

It's difficult to tell what AK could've meant by "a real part" and "really be a part of the show." She's been given a name and a reason to come back on again (because we obviously haven't seen the last of her or lil William), so I think the promises have already been met. To what extent he meant those things, who knows. 

 

Also, the responses to that tweet are amazing. They could not have written a shittier introduction for someone that it seems like they didn't want the audience to hate, haha. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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kismet

kismet

I still think there is a strong chance Poppy will get kidnapped and nobody either in the show or in the audience will care.

 

Imagine if they try to parallel BM kidnapping with Poppy's kidnapping. It's such a trainwreck of an idea that is is almost laughable. But I would love to see them in earnest trying to sell both of those kidnappings as 1. Important to ARROW & its audience and 2. a major epic gamechanger. Seriously it's so hysterical when you actually weigh the possibilities.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

OMG those comments are hilarious. Seriously, does Marc walk around with blinders and ear muffs on? This story line was not well received by anyone I mean fans and reviewers alike rejected it. It's like Diggle said "what works on paper doesn't necessarily work in real life" or as real as it gets for a super hero television show. I really hope they give a swift ending to both her and the kid and only let them be mentioned and not seen if they have to address them again at all in future episodes after season 4.

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Guest

Guest

Oh, so we're still doing the 'needs all four of them to go out in the field' thing? Yawn. Call me when they try something new. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Yep, all 4 in the same location at all times.  It makes no logical sense but it sure looks cool.  I guess, or at least TPTB certainly seem to think so.

 

It also looks like lazy writing to me. Splitting the team into two locations would mean they would have to actually write separate storylines for different locations [even if one house search is a bust, that needs writing], and they don't seem inclined to do that. Maybe it's related to them avoiding giving Laurel her own story beats at all costs, I dunno. It's just weird.

 

They also don't seem to have any kind of protocol for what happens when Felicity is out of commission, which I just find super duper hilarious. Who needs guidance from the Arrow lair, amirite.

Edited by dtissagirl
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

 

What the viewers will see is we’re going to have him give Oliver some very interesting and helpful advice. And obviously we’re going to blow that up. It will bring them a bit closer together, though, which will give us some really juicy stuff when we start to break them back apart.

 

Can Malcolm just die already? Please. I'm begging. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Splitting the team up in 2 wouldn't mean giving Laurel an absolute story beat so that wouldn't a reason I could see. Just straight up lazy. With Felicity out of commission for at least 1 full episode, it would be nice to see what they end up doing different while out in the field.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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It also looks like lazy writing to me. Splitting the team into two locations would mean they would have to actually write separate storylines for different locations [even if one house search is a bust, that needs writing], and they don't seem inclined to do that. Maybe it's related to them avoiding giving Laurel her own story beats at all costs, I dunno. It's just weird.

They also don't seem to have any kind of protocol for what happens when Felicity is out of commission, which I just find super duper hilarious. Who needs guidance from the Arrow lair, amirite.

You probably wouldn't even need that much, just a line drop about the other team/location being a bust.

A part of me wonders if this is an over reaction to people complaining about Diggle getting sidelined last year? They want to avoid the complaints this year so now every mask is out there together even if they do absolutely nothing.

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hogwash

hogwash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZQ12hHVmew
The fight against Deathstroke's army in the S02 finale. 5 mask + several miscellaneous LOA henchman. That was a team-up "ripped from a comic book" that looked cool and worked in the show. This is totally what they're trying to do but failing horribly at it.

 

I'm already underwhelmed by them walking up to this mansion in a straight line. I can't take the stupid of the 4 of them fighting Anarchy together when Thea handled him on her own. Something needs to change with these missions. 

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

A part of me wonders if this is an over reaction to people complaining about Diggle getting sidelined last year? They want to avoid the complaints this year so now every mask is out there together even if they do absolutely nothing.

I think that's exactly it.

About the interview and the question about Donna, WM's answer is hilarious. She's another person aside from Oliver for Felicity to talk to..yeah, cause Thea and Diggle are out of the picture for good, it seems. God forbid she'd talk to any of those two!

Edited by looptab
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

A part of me wonders if this is an over reaction to people complaining about Diggle getting sidelined last year? They want to avoid the complaints this year so now every mask is out there together even if they do absolutely nothing.

 

OH, it's definitely is related to that.

 

I remember Guggie answered one Tumblr ask about WHY THE FUCK would Oliver bring Laurel as his backup instead of Diggle, and his answer was something like they had to give each character their dues, or some other similar garbage. So this season, everyone's going!

 

If I try to see it from the writing POV, it streamlines a whole lot of story: They have a team of five people, but only two actual narrative functions. There's fighter, and there's hacker. "Fighter" gets one story beat, it doesn't matter if there's 1 or 4 of them.

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looptab

looptab

Maybe it's in a cautionary tale light? Afterall in that dud of a flashback episode for Malcolm, what put him on his path was the revenge for his wife's death. So he'll either say something like "Kill him!" and Oliver will be "No, I'm not like you" or they'll try and humanize Malcolm again: "Don't kill him, or you'll become like me".

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Maybe Malcolm will try to get Oliver to sic Thea on DD. "Hey, Oliver, remember when I mindraped Thea into killing Sara so you would fight my battles for me? Well, this time around we don't even have to mindrape her! WOO!"

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Maybe Malcolm will try to get Oliver to sic Thea on DD. "Hey, Oliver, remember when I mindraped Thea into killing Sara so you would fight my battles for me? Well, this time around we don't even have to mindrape her! WOO!"

You jest but I wouldn't be shocked to see it.  It certainly would fall into the Moral Issues Oliver will have over Thea.

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