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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I think they have a serious logistics problem with the kid -- the actor is very inexperienced [his IMDb lists 3 episodes of tv total, all this season, and his work on Flash/Arrow barely clocked 5 minutes, and demanded zero range from him], and a 10 year old boy needs to be written as a real character on a tv show if he's gonna be in it in a more significant capacity. That will certainly be taken into consideration by the network.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

But now, because the woman is Felicity instead of Laurel, the lie seems especially contrived. I wouldn't find lying to Laurel great either but at least it's consistent with that mess of a relationship and their history.

I agree with all that, but I think if they'd stuck with Laurel, they wouldn't necessarily have written him lying. They had to do that with Felicity, bc there's be no particular relationship drama otherwise...so he got some woman pregnant ten years ago, when Felicity and Oliver had never even met. She would have no reason to mind, so they had to write the lying to get to the drama.

 

If it were Laurel, though, she would have reason to care, because the kid is a physical embodiment of what a cheating bastard Ollie was, which could cause relationship drama on its own. She is embarrassed, wonders if he's really changed from that guy, and boom, she wants a break to think things through.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I don't think they planned for the kid to be more than a romantic stall and maybe if they could have made him Connor, comic book easter eggs.Yeah I agree if they want more they will have a huge issue with the actor since imo he's not impressive at all and this kid would have to be in order to make any storyline with him halfway decent.

I also get the impression there's no interest with the audience in Oliver as a father to this random kid.All I saw was people being interested in how it affects Olicity or people being interested if he was Connor.Then after the episode aired it was just hate for the storyline from every side.I wouldn't be suprised if that caused the kid and BM to appear less then planned after this storyline is done.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The only flashback episode I liked was the one from season 1 so if they want to spend this year's on Poppy and the Evil Island, I'm good with that.

The big problem is that right now Oliver's plan is occasional visits to this kid who won't ever know he's his father, because that's what he agreed to. He might want more than that, but is he ever going to try to get it? Is he just going to pop by whenever he's in Central City? Is he going to stage elaborate lies to sneak away for a visit in the hope that BM will eventually let him be a father? It seems like he would eventually want more, but who knows what he'd actually dare to ask for when he thinks BM holds all the power. Oliver's intentions make this secret way more or way less shitty, IMO, and we were given no indication about what his intentions are. 

 

If he really thinks he's only going to be Uncle Oliver to this kid forever and ever, then I would consider this a stupid but minor transgression, since he isn't planning on springing an instant family on Felicity at some point in the future. If he is planning on doing that, then it's incredibly shitty and worthy of all the anger. I'm guessing the show is going to go with the former with Oliver not really considering all that much about the future.

I think we've put far, far more thought into this than Oliver did.  He's the king of compartmentalizing.  This is the only deal BM offered him; he took it. He'll work the details out later.

 

It's hard to judge where they're going with the baby mama/kid storyline because this has been part of the plan since the beginning. So it makes me wonder if they did want Oliver to play at being a father at some point down the line (s5) but not before causing relationship drama between him and Laurel. Because, let's face it, this was always supposed to be a spanner in the works in that relationship, seeing as O/L was their original plan. What's a bigger problem than the appearance of the kid you fathered when you cheated on your girlfriend years ago?

It would have been much bigger if Laurel had still been his love interest but when they shot it, they had already decided to move on from her so maybe it was never meant to get into Oliver cheating on Laurel.

 

I think they're just going to play it for maximum angst for Oliver and Olicity, and maybe Diggle offering him some Big Bro advice if he can get his head out of the Andy situation.  They probably could have had Isaiah Tootoosis (his only role is the boy in The Revenant) if they wanted someone who could act rather than someone who looked like SA might have at that age.

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tarotx

tarotx

I've really enjoyed all 3 flashback episodes but somehow I think s4 will be be soooo boring ....


If Laurel was still the actual female lead than Baby mama drama could be something used to affect her as she was dealing with a new love interest. Even though she wasn't Oliver's love interest. But I personally think the moment they killed Moira, any good from the Baby mama drama was lost.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I think Baby Mama drama would've been pretty much the same if Laurel was still the love interest, only Oliver would have a legit personal reason to be compelled to keep the secret BM asked him to. Because the kid was conceived back when he was a dirty cheater (on Laurel), and would've been a stark reminder of that right around the time Oliver finally overcame a bunch of nonsense to win her back. 

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Sorry to butt in- I really have nothing new to add to the BM discussion- but I wonder how they'll introduce Vixen, whether what happened on the animated series will count, or they'll start from scratch.

Edited by looptab
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bijoux

bijoux

 

Today the actor playing Baron Reiter posted this

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAfO5IGhcmN/?taken-by=jimmyakingbola

There's the confirmation that he's part of Shadowspire. It's in the hashtags. If anyone even cares. I only care that it actually connects Oliver's time on the island to the Diggles.

I think they'll have to give her a true introduction.  They can't assume that all Arrow viewers watched the animated short.

True. But they could do it like they did with Constantine, someone that Oliver already knows.
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I believe that what happened in the Vixen animated series counts as part of the show canon, just like what happens in the Arrow tie-in comics counts as canon.  The EPs have said that Vixen is part of the Flarrowverse, and Oliver, Barry, Felicity (via phone) and Cisco all made appearances on Vixen (the fern was referenced, Oliver found out that Barry kissed Felicity on Vixen).  When Mari appears on Arrow, they'll probably work some background exposition into the dialogue - or maybe use the ever popular device of flashbacks (shooting live action versions of key scenes from the animated series).

Edited by tv echo
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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There's the confirmation that he's part of Shadowspire. It's in the hashtags. If anyone even cares. I only care that it actually connects Oliver's time on the island to the Diggles.

True. But they could do it like they did with Constantine, someone that Oliver already knows.

Which is fine but they're still going to have to give the audience a proper introduction. They can't assume that everyone would know or care about this character from an animated online show.
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kismet

kismet

We desperately need some new shows & spoilers because I feel like we are on the same merry-go-round of conversations about the BM drama. Really I think what they intended with the story in the beginning of the season will be changed as a result of how they bumbled the story in the crossover. Whatever masterplans they had I think are being reevaluated. And I do think that the logistics of having a 10y old actor will also keep the reality of William being a regular character sparse.

 

As for Vixen, I hope they do some type of introduction. I don't feel like watching CW Seed just to know about a character, especially if she is a flashback character. I enjoyed Constantine because they gave just enough of an introduction by we're not overbearing. So in many ways it felt perfect for someone like me who has not watched or read Constantine/Vixen shows/comics.

 

I do think if they keep her primarily in the flashbacks that would be better than bringing her in the present, because it allows them more freedom to do what they want with the character. It also would feel less repetitive. We know she is alive in the present, we don't actually need to see her in the present. The show is cluttered already.

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way2interested

way2interested

I do think if they keep her primarily in the flashbacks that would be better than bringing her in the present, because it allows them more freedom to do what they want with the character. It also would feel less repetitive. We know she is alive in the present, we don't actually need to see her in the present. The show is cluttered already.

Only problem with that, though, is that she didn't get her powers until last year in the canon (around 316 according to MG), so there wouldn't be much of a point of seeing her five years ago. She could only be Vixen if we do see her in the present, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did just wave that detail to incorporate her better into the story. Although how and why Mari would be on the island is a complete mystery to me.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

Aw fuck someone is probably going to take the kid, baby mama, or both (I can just picture some sort of Liam Neeson rip off with BamBam going hard for the action shots, SMDH already). Hoping its not about them but hey this is Arrow where some of the worst writing decisions for drama sake happens! 

 

This is probably when William and Samantha is made known to Felicity, WTactualF!!! She is going through so much already. Now she'll learn this and have to watch Oliver in panic mode because his son (the one he never told her about) is missing. These damn writers.

 

Episode 4x15:  Taken

 

CYpsC-VUkAAHlO1.jpg

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/687480692045787136

Edited by Ann Mack
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Best case - this is what leads BM and Kid to decide disappearing forever is the right thing to do. If they can't pretend this story line is a dream, the least they can do for me is wrap it up in one episode instead of dragging it out. 

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HighHopes

HighHopes

With the way the season seems to be piling everything on Felicity, I wouldn't be surprised if she somehow ends up getting kidnapped- and since she couldn't defend herself/escape because she's in a wheelchair it will fuel more of Oliver's manpain. 

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kismet

kismet

Worst case scenario- FS, BM & William are all kidnapped together by a Present Day Poppy and their sole source of help is LL who is forced to use her law skills to interrogate the truth out of DD on the stand. OQ is somehow incapacitated by something stupid.

Ok I might want to actually see NM do his best Nicholson impression on the stand.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Taken does imply a kidnapping but what if it is DD's child?  That would tie in to doing something they've never done with a big bad, have him turn to them for help. 

 

Don't we also believe that 4-15 is the flashback heavy episode?  Who could be taken in the flashbacks to parallel the present? 

Edited by BkWurm1
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looptab

looptab

Taken is also written by Keto, so..yeah, definitely not so much looking forward to that.

  I agree they should do a proper introduction for Vixen (personally I didn't watch the animated series, just the bits with Oliver, Barry, and Felicity in gif form), but I remembered them saying it was canon, so that's mostly why I'm curious about it. How will they handle it? I don't think she will show up in the flashbacks, but, I don't think it's a good idea if they ignore the series completely and have the characters meet anew. One could wonder, why the hell should I bother following your other projects, or spending money on the comics, if they don't matter?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Yeah the title certainly makes me think of the kid since that was the point of the movie. Of course I also remember KC's obnoxious character gets killed in that movie... :D

I guess we'll have to keep an eye/ear out for the Samantha/William actors going to Vancouver/filming. On the brightside if this is about BMD it might be the way to write them out. Get that "Arrow Witness Protection" that people were hoping for.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm not some cold hearted a-hole, and never ever want to see anything happen to a child. But if Billiam getting kidnapped is the first step of entry into the Arrow Witness Protection Program, then someone should snatch him. Yesterday. Today. Soon.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I'm trying to figure out how Vixen plays into the title. Is it possible that it's something magical that's taken (from her tribe)? She comes to town to recover it? Maybe it ties into whatever super special game changing thing they're doing with their Villain in 415?

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