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Morrigan2575
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Well nothing says "lighter tone" than permanently disabling the one character that brought the lightness out of everyone.

(I don't believe they'll actually keep her paralyzed forever, but we know they're going to play it like they are until they find the miracle cure hopefully by spring sweeps.)

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Felicity is the girlfriend and the one with no mask. Of course she is the one to suffer. It hurts worse and causes the Superhero to question. Plus Felicity is the one who wanted to come back. Of course that will come back to bite her.

I think the LP could have healed her but it's gone :(

I personally want to see Oliver's side of this. He's the lead and my favorite character. But if we don't get Fecility's side at every angle it will just be nasty. She's the one who's physically injured beyond repair.

I don't think she'll be permanently in the chair. PT will come up with something. I will believe until I have no other option.

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This story is Felicity's crucible and I'm interested in seeing how this plays out. As a Felicity fan, I want to see how she deals with this and see her find another way to walk again. As an Olicity fan, I want to see Oliver being there for her and being her light in the darkness.

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First of all, I have to comment on the discussion on the previous page - paraplegics can have sex. They can also have babies.

Second, because there's no doubt in my mind that Palmer Tech is going to come up with a "cure," I don't have any doubt Felicity is going to walk again. Seems to me, at this point, it's the whole reason why they introduced that storyline in the first place since they've barely revisited it since. There's no reason for PT to be struggling, Felicity doesn't have a storyline at work apart from needing this big magical discovery for this board meeting of doom in 6 months. They could've brought Curtis on as her go-to tech person without the company struggles, since that's all he seems to be at this point anyway. IMO, the struggle and the company's troubles and this board meeting were set up for this miracle tech discovery and Felicity walking again.

Normally I wouldn't mind a storyline like this, but it's all going to be glossed over. Since based on set pics for 4x11 she's already back at work and getting a codename it doesn't seem like they're going to show any kind of rehab whatsoever (will be glad to be wrong about that). She doesn't wear a mask, so it's not like she needs something physical to sideline her so she can get all introspective about her mission. They're doing it for the plotty plot as always, so once they wring all they can out of that, a miracle discovery will me made and she'll stand up on her own.

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I don't understand why Felicity needs a crucible? She's already a hero and the fact that both she and Digg are not saddled with a comicbook 'destiny' is, IMO, one of the reasons they've worked so well on the show. Felicity deserves her own stories, not to be stuck in ripped off storylines to make her fit into to the persona of some other comicbook character.

Honestly, I think this killed off my remaining interest in the show for now. I'm not watching another half-season of everyone being miserable all the time, especially not Felicity.

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(edited)

First of all, I have to comment on the discussion on the previous page - paraplegics can have sex. They can also have babies.

Second, because there's no doubt in my mind that Palmer Tech is going to come up with a "cure," I don't have any doubt Felicity is going to walk again. Seems to me, at this point, it's the whole reason why they introduced that storyline in the first place since they've barely revisited it since. There's no reason for PT to be struggling, Felicity doesn't have a storyline at work apart from needing this big magical discovery for this board meeting of doom in 6 months. They could've brought Curtis on as her go-to tech person without the company struggles, since that's all he seems to be at this point anyway. IMO, the struggle and the company's troubles and this board meeting were set up for this miracle tech discovery and Felicity walking again.

Normally I wouldn't mind a storyline like this, but it's all going to be glossed over. Since based on set pics for 4x11 she's already back at work and getting a codename it doesn't seem like they're going to show any kind of rehab whatsoever (will be glad to be wrong about that). She doesn't wear a mask, so it's not like she needs something physical to sideline her so she can get all introspective about her mission. They're doing it for the plotty plot as always, so once they wring all they can out of that, a miracle discovery will me made and she'll stand up on her own.

I agree with everything you said...doesnt make me dread/hate this depressing storyline any less :D

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I agree with everything you said...doesnt make me dread/hate this depressing storyline any less :D

Same, haha.

Although I do wonder how depressing it'll wind up being since I'm fairly certain they're going to gloss over the majority of the things that would make me sad about it (if I thought it was permanent permanent and not Arrow permanent). Like, I don't want to see her frustrated and upset because she can't do the same things she used to do the way she used to do them, but I wonder how much of it they'll bother showing since she'd have to go through months of rehab but is seemingly out and about in the next ep.

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The thing is though, I literally can't think of a single reason why/how making Felicity disabled adds to her story/character? Because even if they create tech to get her to walk again (and thus save PT), it's very likely that Curtis will be the one doing it so once again, Felicity will be used to service another male character. I feel very uneasy about the whole thing. It just doesn't sit right with me.

And if it's not about that, it's about giving her a codename which belongs to another comic book character and Felicity deserves her own codename and origin. She's amazing enough on her own. Why saddle her with comic book history/expectations when she's been free from them so far? Yuck.

Even if Felicity does walk again, I can't muster the enthusiasm for one single storyline in 4b. Not one. At this point I feel like I'll be watching out of morbid/masochistic curiosity for how badly they might handle things. LOL.

I'm feeling very negative today. You might want to ignore me. Haha.

Edited by Guest
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Would she have to go through rehab, though? If they say her injury is permanent and she'll never walk again, wouldn't they just put her in the chair and be done with it? What kind of PT would she have to do if they don't think she has a chance at recovery?

(I know nothing about these issues, so I apologize for my ignorance or if I come across as insensitive).

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Would she have to go through rehab, though? If they say her injury is permanent and she'll never walk again, wouldn't they just put her in the chair and be done with it? What kind of PT would she have to do if they don't think she has a chance at recovery?

(I know nothing about these issues, so I apologize for my ignorance or if I come across as insensitive).

The confinement to a wheelchair alone can cause all sorts of atrophy to other parts of the body, so if this were real life, she would need to keep a regular exercising routine to avoid that.

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The confinement to a wheelchair alone can cause all sorts of atrophy to other parts of the body, so if this were real life, she would need to keep a regular exercising routine to avoid that.

Oh, okay. Hey, maybe they'll bother with some scene here or there, like they did with the whole AA business. At the very least, I hope they mention it in passing , if they are not showing. But this is Arrow, soit'll probably be completely ignored. Which is a pity, considering even 90210 managed to deal with a paralysis-but that was a drama, here they need to show the stunt doubles.

Edited by looptab
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Would she have to go through rehab, though? If they say her injury is permanent and she'll never walk again, wouldn't they just put her in the chair and be done with it? What kind of PT would she have to do if they don't think she has a chance at recovery?

(I know nothing about these issues, so I apologize for my ignorance or if I come across as insensitive).

Normal people do. The therapy is supposed to help you in your daily life. This way you can learn to depend on yourself again.

The most problematic side effect of paralysis is having to go the bathroom. At first, depending on the injury you need a catheter because you cannot control that anymore. That will also be taught to you.

Furthermore it is supposed to help with the emotional stress. Usually it is recommended.

Someone else already said it, you can still have kids. Having children is a hormonal thing and doesn't have to do with nerves. Having sex is a little difficult because a specific female body part doesn't get stimulated as easily anymore.

Edited by Belinea
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This is from Bamford's Instagram.

rsz_12501910_914517081997895_57745422_n.

james2bambamford Every jail cell comes complete with fat stacks, and heroine. A convict's dream......

So I guess there's also some drug related thing in 4x14.
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Once Again FUCK the Writers for putting Felicity in a wheelchair! All the people who fight on the show get no Permanent injuries and the one character who doesn't gets Paralyzed possibly forever! It's Bullshit!! So she can get a codename which possibly ties to a Comic Book Character? For her "Crucible"? Why does she need one? Why was Laurel's so lame yet Its compared to Oliver's Hell, and What Thea and Dig went through? I wouldn't be Surprised if these fuckheads leave her in that chair forever! I don't understand why this fucking show has to be depressing.

Edited by jay741982
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Normal people do. The therapy is supposed to help you in your daily life. This way you can learn to depend on yourself again.

The most problematic side effect of paralysis is having to go the bathroom. At first, depending on the injury you need a catheter because you cannot control that anymore. That will also be taught to you.

Furthermore it is supposed to help with the emotional stress. Usually it is recommended.

Someone else already said it, you can still have kids. Having children is a hormonal thing and doesn't have to do with nerves. Having sex is a little difficult because the female body parts doesn't get stimulated as easily anymore.

Thank you for your explanation. I imagine in real life that's a radical change that needs all the help possible-physical, psychological. But since this is tv, I'm not expecting it to be realistic. Also, they might gloss over some of these problems if they have the time jump occur between 410 and 411. So that in 411 the new way of life they have to deal with, and related struggles, have been going on longer than a few days. Edited by looptab
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She is going to walk again. I have no doubt about that. I agree that a lot will be glossed over, probably by a time jump between 4x10 and 4x11.

I'm not raging at the storyline anymore but I'm not looking to it. There is way too much pain potential.

Count me in as someone who needs both Oliver and Felicity reactions. This just can't be a season 3 situation where Oliver gets to talk but the viewer has to infer Felicitys actions.

As for this being a hellmouth back to Oliver and Laurel? No. I'm sure that's a pitch that would go over wonderfully. "Let's paralyze Felicity and have her break up with Oliver because she feels inadequate. He can agree with her and then get back together with Laurel. Oh no, he needs to break with her so Laurel fans don't think he is settling. Okay, Oliver decides he doesn't love Felicity enough because he can't stand her not walking." No way does Oliver not come out a complete tool.

Edited to say: Just realized there is a terrible pun in there. I'm going to keep it in there because I feel if they have this conversation they would be terrible people who make terrible puns.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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I'm torn between being pissed that they're dragging Felicity's crucible out 4-8 episodes (or more) when other characters get barely a blip and; being happy that it's getting time to develop properly since those other crucible's were a joke.

Then I get sad because I realize it probably doesn't mean anything, the length is merely based on the required start (MSF) and end Board meeting.

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I'm torn between being pissed that they're dragging Felicity's crucible out 4-8 episodes (or more) when other characters get barely a blip and; being happy that it's getting time to develop properly since those other crucible's were a joke.

I'm not even sure what this crucible is for? She's supposedly not going to wear a mask, and she's already happy and confident in what she's doing to help save the city, most of which she does sitting down anyway. She seems to be happy with and confident in her professional life, which she also does sitting down, so...I'm not all that confident that this is even about her to the point where it even needs time to develop properly. Seems like it's happening for relationship drama and possibly for Curtis to Gary Stu it up a little more by coming up with whatever the cure is going to be.

Still hoping against all hope she figures the final pieces out on her own.

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Seems like it's happening for relationship drama and possibly for Curtis to Gary Stu it up a little more by coming up with whatever the cure is going to be.

Well, since they obviously wanted to us 'Oracle' for her for a while you can also add their favorite reason 'because comics' to the list.

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Well, since they obviously wanted to us 'Oracle' for her for a while you can also add their favorite reason 'because comics' to the list.

Yeah, I suppose. Just seems to me that since she isn't Babs, if they wanted to give her the codename, they could've just given it to her since the whole reason Babs became Oracle is not at all applicable here. But, we are talking about this show, so...yeah.

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(edited)

Yeah, I suppose. Just seems to me that since she isn't Babs, if they wanted to give her the codename, they could've just given it to her since the whole reason Babs became Oracle is not at all applicable here. But, we are talking about this show, so...yeah.

IF she's going to be Oracle, I wonder if DC put the requirement on the table? Or maybe The EPs were afraid of comic fanboy backlash and decided they had to honor the Oracle storyline (even temporarily) in order to lesson the backlash?

Then again they didn't fear the LGBT Backlash by forcing Nyssa/Oliver marriage and they really didn't get much of a backlash so who knows? Maybe MG just really really wanted to ripoff Batman again

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Doing all this just for the Oracle codename is pointless though seeing as no one wants her to be Oracle. I haven't seen any Felicity fan who wants that origin for her and no comic book canon fan wants it either because it's taking away from Batgirl's origin story. So who exactly are they pleasing here? It's absolutely ridiculous.

And I'm even wary of them creating magical tech that gets her to walk again because if it's Curtis who creates it then Felicity is just a prop in his story and he'll get all the glory, especially within fandom. But if Felicity creates it she'll just be called a Mary Sue who can magically heal paralysis now! I can see it already.

If this is the way the story is going and the paralysis isn't permanent (still not convinced it's not) I really hope it's a joint effort and they work together. Kind of like they can't do it without the other. I want to see Felicity determined and never give up even when it looks futile. I want her to be her own savior, even if she struggles along the way.

Edited by Guest
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I don't think they're calling her Oracle though its possible but I do think the main reason they're doing this is comics.They're probably doing some sort of mix of Oracle and Proxy storylines.I don't think Felicity really needed a cruicible since she has her reasons for being a hero all worked out and she's not getting a mask.A cruicible for a codename would be only there for outside reasons like they think they need to put her through hell to justify a big comic book name and I hope they're not doing that.On the show a codename should just be a practical thing so villains don't find out her name,not this huge deal she has to suffer to be allowed.

They most likely wanted to give her a big emotional storyline and most ideas they seem to have for character development is making characters suffer so we're getting this.

I'm sure its not permanent though but I still hate its happening at all.I just hope we get pics of EBR filming outside standing up so at least we know around when in the season its ending.That would make it easier for me to handle.

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Imo this is just another case of Arrow's Writers Writing syndrome.

They obviously want to give Felicity a whole bunch of plot points from Oracle's story -- the injury given by a formidable enemy of the male protagonist to cause HIM manpain. The Calculator as a nemesis, His daugther being an Oracle-type character who also happens to be in a wheelchair... They're mashing it all up and giving it to Felicity, with maaaybe the "Oracle" codename included in the mix too.

And they're gonna write it all towards these predetermined plot points because Guggenheim's default mode is writing for plot, charactarization and motivation be damned.

Edited by dtissagirl
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(edited)

Imo this is just another case of Arrow's Writers Writing syndrome.

They obviously want to give Felicity a whole bunch of plot points from Oracle's story -- the injury given by a formidable enemy of the male protagonist to cause HIM manpain. The Calculator as a nemesis, His daugther being an Oracle-type character who also happens to be in a wheelchair... They're mashing it all up and giving it to Felicity, with maaaybe the "Oracle" codename included in the mix too.

And they're gonna write it all towards these predetermined plot points because Guggenheim's default mode is writing for plot, charactarization and motivation be damned.

It is his default but WM seems to be more character driven. I had hoped she would provide balance to his stupidity (sorry, I have no other word). It seemed to be working in 4A but, now I'm left to think that's only because MG was wrapped up in LoT and now he's back... Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think they would need to be exceptional writers to be able to take all of these plot points and still turn out a story that's character-driven. I can't think of any time they wrote towards comic book fluff that resulted in a good character-driven arc. The fact that they insist on writing backwards from all this predetermined stuff is basically shooting themselves in the foot.

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IF she's going to be Oracle, I wonder if DC put the requirement on the table? Or maybe The EPs were afraid of comic fanboy backlash and decided they had to honor the Oracle storyline (even temporarily) in order to lesson the backlash?

Then again they didn't fear the LGBT Backlash by forcing Nyssa/Oliver marriage and they really didn't get much of a backlash so who knows? Maybe MG just really really wanted to ripoff Batman again

Hoping that since they seem to be going with a mashup of the Proxy and Oracle storylines that she'll have a different name so we can at least avoid *some* comparisons. Terrible plot remains terrible, however.

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I don't think they're wrapped up in LoT just yet because apparently there are 16 episodes and I don't think at this point in time when the writers were writing this episode/coming up with possible arcs for 4B he was very free considering that was probably when they were still writing/plotting LoT episodes as well.

A few comments, while Felicity will be going back to help TA in episode 11, I don't think this is indicative that they'll gloss over her issues. She can still face the issues and not resolve them and still help TA save Star(ling) because maybe saving Starling is just that important to her? IDK If there IS a time jump between episode 10/11 then yeah I'd consider that glossing over her issues, but I guess I won't judge until I see what happens.

All I know for sure is that this arc will be heavily dependant on SA and EBR elevating the material they've been given and knocking their scenes out of the park. While I know SA is up to the challenge, I'm excited to see how EBR handles this meatier arc because unlike other actors, she is a more nuanced actor and has improved a lot over the course of the show.

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Maybe this is the "hallucination" story line Marc was trying to get ahead of yesterday, because he knew the promo might be getting released. It just seems to ridiculous and provide no added value to her character, the loving relationship between her and Oliver, or to the show to have her "permanently paralyzed" and put it in the promo to be released. I hope since they know they could no longer use the grave as a mean to generate buzz these pricks are using this. Australia and Asia usually give more beefy promos with "WTF moments" than the U.S. and that was NO exception it was a doozy! I was trying to gauge Donna's reaction from that and I got nothing.

So we're talking, people are in a state of confusion and disbelief about what the show is doing. The writers may have managed to piss off dedicated Felicity, Olicity, Barbara Gordon, Oracle, general Arrow viewers, and comic book aficionados all in one fell swoop. These writers definitely have a gift.

Edited by Ann Mack
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I think they would need to be exceptional writers to be able to take all of these plot points and still turn out a story that's character-driven. I can't think of any time they wrote towards comic book fluff that resulted in a good character-driven arc. The fact that they insist on writing backwards from all this predetermined stuff is basically shooting themselves in the foot.

Oh no, I agree with you. It's just in 4A, they seemed to be writing character driven storyline (excepting Laurel/Sara). I foolishly believed that promoting WM to co-show runner woul reel in MG's plotty, plot, plot style.
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A few comments, while Felicity will be going back to help TA in episode 11, I don't think this is indicative that they'll gloss over her issues. She can still face the issues and not resolve them and still help TA save Star(ling) because maybe saving Starling is just that important to her? IDK If there IS a time jump between episode 10/11 then yeah I'd consider that glossing over her issues, but I guess I won't judge until I see what happens.

I think they will address the situation for sure in 411. It's even in the episode description. However, with a time jump they might gloss over the more immediate issues and going straight to whatever challenge (physical, emotional, psychological)she/she and Oliver'll face. Could be they overcome it in that same episode, but I think it'll be another case of them deciding they need to "find another way"in 411, and then proceeding to finding it through the span of some episodes. Edited by looptab
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A few comments, while Felicity will be going back to help TA in episode 11, I don't think this is indicative that they'll gloss over her issues. She can still face the issues and not resolve them and still help TA save Star(ling) because maybe saving Starling is just that important to her? IDK If there IS a time jump between episode 10/11 then yeah I'd consider that glossing over her issues, but I guess I won't judge until I see what happens.

I don't think they're going to gloss over it in terms of her paralysis not being an issue and everything's hunky dory except she's in a wheelchair now. I just don't think that we're in for some in-depth story about disabilities and how it affects Felicity and her life that would actually do justice to what someone in her position would really go through. I would be glad to be wrong about that, though.

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Even if I wasn't spoiled about Felicity I still wouldn't be invested because the solution is either the nano-tech or DD's magic. Perhaps Oliver will have to make a deal with Darhk, either save Felicity or his city. ( Yawn!!!). How many times are we going down this road with him. And the scene of him and Barry at the grave in the preview is stupid if they established in the preview she isn't dead. Ah, the preview monkeys, they task us.

At one time I rooted for Olicity, now I want her to get away from him, between his repetitive behavior and the secret kid, she needs to wheel away as fast as she can. Let's hope that chair is motorized.

I know it's been done, ( Buffy/Angel), but maybe Felicity could be the next big bad. Now that is a season I would watch, of course they would need better writers.

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Even if I wasn't spoiled about Felicity I still wouldn't be invested because the solution is either the nano-tech or DD's magic. Perhaps Oliver will have to make a deal with Darhk, either save Felicity or his city. ( Yawn!!!). How many times are we going down this road with him. And the scene of him and Barry at the grave in the preview is stupid if they established in the preview she isn't dead. Ah, the preview monkeys, they task us.

At one time I rooted for Olicity, now I want her to get away from him, between his repetitive behavior and the secret kid, she needs to wheel away as fast as she can. Let's hope that chair is motorized.

I know it's been done, ( Buffy/Angel), but maybe Felicity could be the next big bad. Now that is a season I would watch, of course they would need better writers.

Hell NO to Felicity going Evil! I'd rather Laurel do that

The only positive thing I've got is that EBR/Felicity look fabulous in the spoiler pics. Hair, wardrobe, and makeup are all on point.

Yep. That's about it.

She's a goddess she always looks Faboulous IMO

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That has me curious if what DD took from the Pit is what he still uses to heal himself and stay youthful or is it the mumbo jumbo and symbols on his body that does it? Also, I'm very interested to learn the purpose of the corn, cause after the promo showing his wife she didn't look that healthy, so why hasn't he slipped her some Lazarus Pit juice or chanted some magical words over her? What is the overall healing powers or usefulness of the corn? So many unanswered questions dealing with Damien Darhk and now the story line of Felicity's paralysis and I wonder if he has something that could help her.

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I am happy that Felicity is getting her only storyline, especially if they treat it as hers and not just another trial for Oliver. I kind of doubt that they are going to treat it with the respect and sensitivity that it deserves, although they did have some really nice, subtle moments in season 4a so I am not without hope. I am worried that they are shoe-horning her into the Oracle role, since there is a direct correlation between terrible character development and someone with comic destiny, and I really think that paralyzing her didn't make a whole lot of sense in hitting her where it would cause her the most damage to her sense of self. Not that it won't be challenging, but I think something where she has hallucinations and can't trust her mind would be more appropriate for someone like her.

I love how our reaction to spoilers are "Ugh! How are the writers going to fuck THIS up?"

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