Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

Arrow The Musical? Arrow AU?

[jay741982]

Yeah Im worried they are gonna make her Paralysis permanent

Arrow The Musical? Arrow AU?

I wouldn't mind Arrow the Musical lol

[lemotomato]

Hmm... Didn't we speculate about hallucinations when the BTS pics of the Ivy Town neighbors filming episode--13? 14?-- showed up? We couldn't really think of another good reason why they would be in SC.

[tangerine95]

I think his comment was mostly about trying to make some people think the wheelchair thing might be the hallucination and maybe make some others think Felicity dies and appears as a halucination to Oliver.I'm not worried about it tbh.MG likes to scare people.I just remember him saying not everything from the trailer with the love scene in season 3 will end up in the episode or something like that and people were freaking out over what turned out to be nothing and like a Laurel scene was cut lol.

I hope the hallucination gives us insight into how Felicity feels especially since I kinda think she'll put on a brave face in front of Oliver and Donna.

[apinknightmare]

Hmm... Didn't we speculate about hallucinations when the BTS pics of the Ivy Town neighbors filming episode--13? 14?-- showed up? We couldn't really think of another good reason why they would be in SC.

I will die laughing if she hallucinates a whole engagement party.

[Starfish35]

I think it'd be more interesting to see what Felicity's hallucinations might be than to have someone else (likely Oliver) hallucinating of her.

[Morrigan2575]

A friend reminded me about something which ties into the hallucinations and my previous theory. I had a theory before Christmas, based on EBR's comment that Felicity was on another plane, that Felicity would have an out of body/ghostly interaction in 410. What if that's the hallucination? Y2John's IMDb post indicates that Felicity is having Hallucinations (more than 1 episode) so is it possible that she's seeing this "ghost" on a regular basis, like Oliver was seeing Shado/Tommy in 209?

[apinknightmare]

Y2John's IMDb post indicates that Felicity is having Hallucinations (more than 1 episode) so is it possible that she's seeing this "ghost" on a regular basis, like Oliver was seeing Shado/Tommy in 209?

Whatever it is, I hope it's obvious when it's happening. I really don't want to get into a situation where we can't tell what is or isn't real.

[Chaser]

Any ideas as to who the ghost would be?

[AyChihuahua]

Prob depends whether the hallucinations are good or bad. Is the Cooper actor returning?

[HighHopes]

Here's my crack theory: Roy is the hallucination. Felicity's injury has caused her to see dead people (she just doesn't know it yet) and Roy comes to her for help because he is being targeted by The Calculator. So Felicity helps him out, which leads to her discovering her father and Roy actually being dead. This will also play into the death of the season- Felicity will continue to see the person who died (and thus we won't be able to tell from BtS photos who died until the episode airs) until the end of the season when their death gets solved/revenge has been had. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

Any ideas as to who the ghost would be?

 

Does the person have to be a ghost? What if she hallucinates people who are still alive? I think that's a possibility... If this is the case I'd go with: 

 

Cooper, Oliver, Diggle, Roy, Papa Smoak, Donna

 

I'd say Moira but ST would never come back to this show lol I'd be pleasantly surprised if she DID come back though

Edited January 10, 2016 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

Does the person have to be a ghost? What if she hallucinates people who are still alive? I think that's a possibility...

She could hallucinate anyone in any scenario IMO. That's why I really, really hope they let make it clear what's real and what's a hallucination.

[Morrigan2575]

Absolutely horrible thought.

What if Felicity hallucinates her teammates telling her she's weak and a liability and stuff? What if that prompts her to do something reckless in order to walk again?

Please, no...I don't think my TV can withstand my anger if that happens.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Wasn't that exactly what Laurel hallucinated Sara telling her? 

 

Ugh that would be so terrible. I don't need any reused storylines. Especially storylines that Laurel had. Yuck

[Chaser]

You take that back.

I'm torn between 'This is going to be terrible' and 'It probably amounts to nothing significant.'

[HighHopes]

Absolutely horrible thought.

What if Felicity hallucinates her teammates telling her she's weak and a liability and stuff? What if that prompts her to do something reckless in order to walk again?

Please, no...I don't think my TV can withstand my anger if that happens.

Oh please no, 2x14 was enough of that type of storyline (Felicity not feeling like she's important) for me and I have done my best to forget that that episode exists. If that happens I will not be held responsible for my rage.

[tangerine95]

I like that idea of her having a "ghost "she halucinates regularly.It will probably have to be someone who is actually alive since I can't think of anyone dead she can halucinate.

Tbh I can totally see something like the hallucination voicing her worst insecurities and pushing her to find a cure for herself.That would be hard to watch but I wouldn't be suprised if it happened since they seem to want to put her through hell this season.But idk Geoff Johns responding to the tweet and seeming excited about the storyline makes me think it will have something to do with comics stuff or her codename maybe.

[apinknightmare]

From what I can tell (thank you, Google) Proxy hallucinates a friend of hers who died - she has whole conversations with him, and he encourages her to find something that is missing in her life, and she went off to Nanda Parbat to find her peace (I got this off of a Tumblr post, so if I butchered it, sorry). How that will translate onto the show, IDK.

[Morrigan2575]

You take that back.

I'm torn between 'This is going to be terrible' and 'It probably amounts to nothing significant.'

I take it back, I take it back.

[Chaser]

Thank you.

Proxy has a connection to Nanda Parbat? If they are translating that, maybe that's why Malcolm is around more.

[apinknightmare]

Thank you.

Proxy has a connection to Nanda Parbat? If they are translating that, maybe that's why Malcolm is around more.

Not much of one. As far as I can tell based on what little is out there, she was written out of this particular series and was shipped off to Nanda Parbat. They never continued her story.

[Belinea]

Is the hallucination supposed to be some side effect as well? Is that supposed to be some sort of brain damage? Coping with the emotional stress? Why would she hallucinate?

I hope they don't change her completely as a character. First the emotional trauma of losing your ability to walk and hallucinating on top of it. Normal people would probably need a family member or a nurse to stay with them because they could not be left alone.

[AyChihuahua]

Is the hallucination supposed to be some side effect as well? Is that supposed to be some sort of brain damage? Coping with the emotional stress? Why would she hallucinate?

I hope they don't change her completely as a character. First the emotional trauma of losing your ability to walk and hallucinating on top of it. Normal people would probably need a family member or a nurse to stay with them because they could not be left alone.

If they follow comics, The Calculator will inject her with something that causes hallucinations. Maybe Vertigo? Otherwise hallucinations would be a sign of major neurological damage or psychological issues.

I think they'll go with Vertigo.

I'm curious to see how ratings respond to another half-season of misery. The misery didn't hurt S3 ratings at all, but at some point, the cumulative effect probably will. This is not The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.

[Balaclava]

If they follow comics, The Calculator will inject her with something that causes hallucinations. Maybe Vertigo? Otherwise hallucinations would be a sign of major neurological damage or psychological issues.

I think they'll go with Vertigo.

I'm curious to see how ratings respond to another half-season of misery. The misery didn't hurt S3 ratings at all, but at some point, the cumulative effect probably will. This is not The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.

 

Anti-life equation, in the comics he tried to give it Wendy but never did 

[Sunshine]

Re: Poor man's Professor X...Isn't this similar to Green Arrow being the poor man's Batman?

According to Marvel Universe Wiki Professor X is a mutant with telepathic powers. He can feel other's pain first-hand because of it. He devotes his life to protecting humanity from evil mutants. He trained students in his home. He assembled the X-men.

Isn't Felicity a "poor man's Professor X" already? She has no mutant abilities. She does however have good instincts regarding people, both good and evil. She helped Oliver. She helped Ray with his suit. She got Oliver to help him when he needed some fight training. When Laurel was going to hang it up in S3, Felicity encouraged her not to give up. Her next "project" is probably Mr. Terrific.

My main concern would be that Professor X at one point goes into isolation. If this happened with regards to Felicity, it could be the wheelchair means she operates out of PT or home and connects to the lair remotely.

(BTW, I am not defending CG. Just giving a possible explanation for the crew member).

[Morrigan2575]

I doubt it has anything to do with Prof X, other than the fact that he's in a wheelchair. He also made a poor man's Magneto comment which was obviously a crack about Diggle's helmet.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

Honestly when MG mentioned hallucinations (in which I feel pretty sure that he was just trying to convince general audiences that Felicity was still dead and obsessed audiences that she might not be in a wheelchair with a technical truth), I only thought of two scenarios instead of an ongoing hallucination.

1) in 411 they do a pseudo-parallel of Oliver's dream in 311 in which Felicity sees a moment between her and Oliver that can't happen anymore because of her injury (standing together at their wedding, dancing, simply walking with each other, etc.) and she wakes up disappointed (to which she would at some point tell Oliver, who would then tell her that she wasn't hallucinating, she was seeing a vision of their future since he knows that she will get better some day *Oracle hint hint*)

2) in 413 they do a version of one of Oracle's fights with the Calculator in which she hallucinates a better life, with Felicity seeing her ideal life if her father never left, if her father wasn't evil, if she could still walk, if she could just have the Team Arrow life with Oliver without anything happening to them, if they were all happy

 

No idea how they would do multiple hallucinations for Felicity without wearing out the emphasis that it would give to the story, but simply showing her walking versus not should be able to distinguish the two, since at the same time we already have to distinguish FB Oliver and present Oliver now that they cut his hair.Gotta say though I am slightly excited that they are giving something like this to Felicity, and I think that it could actually be pretty interesting. 

[calliope1975]

MG's comment on something in an upcoming episode being just Felicity's hallucination, I can't help feel he's concerned that something in one will be spoiled and get the fandom all worked up (in a good way or bad way?) and this is his way of preemptively calming everyone down for either doing something awful or taking away something wonderful.  I tend to think he's taking away something wonderful.  He likes handing out the awful too much to give us a warning.

I do find it weird that he's spoiling this. Has he done this before? I don't know that it means anything, but he seems to take criticism personally (not that that's a bad thing or surprising) so maybe he's finally anticipating a negative reaction and trying to mitigate it.

If they follow comics, The Calculator will inject her with something that causes hallucinations.

So, he's Dad of the Year, yes? Maybe he and Malcolm can discuss the nuances of family dynamics and terribad fathering. I'm curious if he's kept up with Felicity all this time or if he completely abandoned the Smoaks. Donna made it sound like he wasn't completely horrid, so how does that jive with him attacking his daughter (or anyone for that matter.)

Re: Poor man's Professor X...Isn't this similar to Green Arrow being the poor man's Batman?

I'm also thinking it could have just been a harmless joke, but the CG guy is so bitter over EBR that he took it as a negative and reported it as such.

[Balaclava]

I'm trying to think past the wheelchair, FS is (probably) calculator's daughter so the similarities with Wendy/Proxy make sense.

What i really wanna know is what are those hallucinations about and when/why does it start. Will it be a side effect of w/e tech happens in 4x11? maybe DD gas? side-effects of her shooting/coma etc? can she used them for something that progresses her even more as a hero and in a total different way? I know some people are taking the hallucinations as something bad, i'm trying to think/spec about a way in which it can be something FS is able to use.

What is at the end of this for her and what will all of this give FS character? Those are my Q's at this moment, can't all be doom and gloom, something good has to come out of her SL

[Chaser]

I'm hoping he spoiled because he is excited about the storyline and not because of a possible negative reaction.

If GJ did have input or even come up with a healthy amount of Felicity backstory, then I can see him being excited.

[dtissagirl]

I do find it weird that he's spoiling this. Has he done this before? I don't know that it means anything, but he seems to take criticism personally (not that that's a bad thing or surprising) so maybe he's finally anticipating a negative reaction and trying to mitigate it.

I think MG's majorly pissed the wheelchair got super duper spoiled with pictures and everything, and this is his feeble attempt to distract those who saw it [but aren't as spoiled as we are]. These folks are always reactive crybabies about everything, so I won't even be surprised if all of a sudden there's a puff piece about this storyline showing up. Last season when the Buckles suit leaked they already had the ~official pics~ to make noise about it. I'm not sure they have pics this time around, though.

Edited January 10, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

MG is the guy who was actually trying to sell Oliver as dead this time last season. So I fully believe he spoiled the hallucination because everyone pretty much knows that Felicity's not going to die mainly because EBR has been pictured on set. I think he's hoping the hallucination might play into the idea that she's really dead. Like 'Oh, she's on set but maybe she's really dead after all and this is Oliver's hallucination!' I know that makes little sense but it's MG. LOL.

 

Also the more I read about this, the more convinced I am that Felicity's paralysis will be permanent. Just a niggling feeling of dread I have. I really hope I'm wrong. 

[jay741982]

I have that fear too. Like I said it's too depressing and I'm shallow I wanna see Felicity walking around on those sexy legs and see DAT ASS too lol

[calliope1975]

Also the more I read about this, the more convinced I am that Felicity's paralysis will be permanent. Just a niggling feeling of dread I have. I really hope I'm wrong.

Well, if they truly want to be game changing, that would do it. Permanently putting a show's leading lady in a wheelchair would be bold and a potentially really interesting, groundbreaking story with the right writers. And well, since we've got the regular Arrow writers, that scenario is not really an option.

As horrible as it is to say, I also don't think the CW execs would find Felicity in a wheelchair sexy enough for their brand. They've taken some risks with some of their shows, but I don't know that they would go that far.

I still think she'll be walking before the season is over. I am totally willing to be wrong, though, if they decide to actually take this type of injury seriously because I think that type of representation would be amazing.

[Guest]

Well, if they truly want to be game changing, that would do it. Permanently putting a show's leading lady in a wheelchair would be bold and a potentially really interesting, groundbreaking story with the right writers. And well, since we've got the regular Arrow writers, that scenario is not really an option.

As horrible as it is to say, I also don't think the CW execs would find Felicity in a wheelchair sexy enough for their brand. They've taken some risks with some of their shows, but I don't know that they would go that far.

I still think she'll be walking before the season is over. I am totally willing to be wrong, though, if they decide to actually take this type of injury seriously because I think that type of representation would be amazing.

I'm really of two minds about it. Yes, it would be a big deal to put Felicity in a wheelchair permanently. And I see it as a way of having greater representation of disability on TV which is important. But as you said, this is Arrow and I don't trust them to handle it with the care it deserves.

Also, I don't want to see Felicity in a wheelchair long term. If that makes me bad, then okay. I'm bad. It's not for shallow 'sexy' reasons, it has nothing to do with Olicity, I just don't want to see Felicity deal with that for the rest of her life (and by life I mean for the rest of her time on the show). I'm not interested in seeing that on a show I mainly watch for escapism and fun (I use those terms loosely because yeah...). For reasons I've already mention upthread, I think it's massively unfair.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope she is walking by the end of the season, but I have very little faith in this show so I won't hold my breath. I guess I'd rather be prepared.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

I'm really of two minds about it. Yes, it would be a big deal to put Felicity in a wheelchair permanently. And I see it as a way of having greater representation of disability on TV which is important. But as you said, this is Arrow and I don't trust them to handle it with the care it deserves.

Also, I don't want to see Felicity in a wheelchair long term. If that makes me bad, then okay. I'm bad. It's not for shallow 'sexy' reasons, it has nothing to do with Olicity, I just don't want to see Felicity deal with that for the rest of her life (and by life I mean for the rest of her time on the show). I'm not interested. For reasons I've already mention upthread, I think it's massively unfair.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope she is walking by the end of the season, but I have very little faith in this show so I won't hold my breath. I guess I'd rather be prepared.

Yeah I don't want to see Felicity to have to deal with that the rest of the shows history as well. It is unfair

[BkWurm1]

MG is the guy who was actually trying to sell Oliver as dead this time last season. So I fully believe he spoiled the hallucination because everyone pretty much knows that Felicity's not going to die mainly because EBR has been pictured on set. I think he's hoping the hallucination might play into the idea that she's really dead. Like 'Oh, she's on set but maybe she's really dead after all and this is Oliver's hallucination!' I know that makes little sense but it's MG. LOL.

Also the more I read about this, the more convinced I am that Felicity's paralysis will be permanent. Just a niggling feeling of dread I have. I really hope I'm wrong.

I have been hearing the "Oliver is just hallucinating Felicity!" in some places soo...

As for if her paralysis is permanent.

I absolutely think they will present it as permanent, but will they leave it that way?

My being able to live with it permanently hinges on how far down the paralysis goes. She can't walk, but does she have feeling at all below the waist? If Oliver and Felicity can't really be together in that way, it seems inevitable that they will find a way to get rid of the relationship altogether. If it's planned to "fix" her injury at some point then they can play up all the emotional agony and come out strong because their love is bigger than just that but again, I don't think these writers would be willing or able to tell a love story that never has traditional sex on the table again. Which would make me believe that they plan on circling back to Laurel which is where I start shouting Hell No!

Again, it seems an absolute that they will not give any assurances that she'll get use of her legs again. They may even have the doctors say she has zero chance of recover and then pull something mystical out of their hat. In the meantime the waiting is going to be murder.

Edited January 10, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

I have been hearing the "Oliver is just hallucinating Felicity!" in some places soo...

As for if her paralysis is permanent.

I absolutely think they will present it as permanent, but will they leave it that way?

My being able to live with it permanently hinges on how far down the paralysis goes. She can't walk, but does she have feeling at all below the waist? If Oliver and Felicity can't really be together in that way, it seems inevitable that they will find a way to get rid of the relationship altogether. If it's planned to "fix" her injury at some point then they can play up all the emotional agony and come out stronger but again, I don't think these writers would be willing or able to tell a love story that never has traditional sex on the table again.

Again, it seems an absolute that they will not give any assurances that she'll get use of her legs again. They may even have the doctors say she has zero chance of recover and then pull something mystical out of their hat. In the meantime the waiting is going to be murder.

I think Felicity is the one hallucinating but MG didn't specify for a reason because he likes to troll!

I didn't even think about O/F not being able to have sex again tbh. I don't even care about that right now.

And we all know they're going to sell her paralysis as permanent until it's not (that is if what's going to happen), both on and off the show. They sell what's happening for the episodes airing. Even SA tried to sell that Oliver was dead this time last year. So that's what I'm expecting.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

I didn't even think about O/F not being able to have sex again tbh. I don't even care about that right now.

Thus sneaking in the infertility storyline as well.

It isn't them not being able to have sex, hey, it's not like that's ever shown anyway lol, but I can't help worry what that change would prompt the writers to do. Would they somehow justify him cheating again? That thought makes me sick.

Edited January 10, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

Oliver cheating on Felicity while she's paralyzed? Only if the writers and EPs want a mob with pitchforks and torches at their doorstep.

[kes0704]

I for one don't want Felicity to be permanently in a wheelchair for many reasons, but primarily because it would be massively unfair. Oliver can be stabbed in the chest and kicked off a mountain, suffering what should be a back breaking fall and walk away from it with not even a limp, whereas poor Felicity gets shot and ends up with a life long disability? I am really, really not okay with that. Plus how this would affect Felicity's role in the action components of the show in the future?

I know that people with disabilities achieve amazing things in real life but the EP's have not proven themselves to be consistent with nuanced and quality writing over the last four years. I don't have faith that Felicity won't end up getting sidelined because the writers don't know how to plan and write storylines for a character with a disability. I probably should prepare myself to really hate this storyline.

[Guest]

Thus sneaking in the infertility storyline as well.

It isn't them not being able to have sex, hey, it's not like that's ever shown anyway lol, but I can't help worry what that change would prompt the writers to do. Would they somehow justify him cheating again? That thought makes me sick.

 

Infertility on top of everything else? UGH. I've heard of putting characters through it but it's like they're intentionally trying to destroy her lightness and what makes her special on this show. How much shit can one character take?! No thank you.

 

 

Oliver cheating on Felicity while she's paralyzed? Only if the writers and EPs want a mob with pitchforks and torches at their doorstep.

 

This. The only thing I feel sure of is that Oliver won't cheat on Felicity. No way. Those days are done.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I have crazy low expectations for this arc... But I will consider it a success if the following happens:

 

• Felicity is the main focus of the arc and not Oliver's feelings. I want to know how she feels, I want to hear her voice.
• Felicity to actually suffer from the repercussions and deal with not having to walk and how that screws with her mentally and emotionally
• I want Oliver to support her unconditionally but ultimately I want Felicity herself to pick herself up and dust herself off and move forward.
• I want Felicity to actually utter the words that she won't give up trying to save the city regardless of her situation and that she won't accept her current state as being permanent which inspires her to look for a cure
• Maybe Felicity looking for a cure w/ Curtis will be a subtle show of her downward spiral. The longer it takes to find a cure the more frustrated she is and when she hits a dead end she breaks down but doesn't give up.
• I want Felicity to show some real emotions and not just anger at the world. I don't want her to feel sorry for herself and wallow in self misery.
• Felicity to have a new sense of motivation to take Darhk down and become ruthless in that sense

 

Basically I want this to be a REAL Felicity centric arc where Oliver is the supporting player. We've been talking about how many ways this arc could go wrong, that I guess I'd like to focus on the potential positives :)

Edited January 10, 2016 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

Hehe, wow the depression has set in, not only is Felicity going to be permanently paralyzed but they're doing it to break Olicity up and go back to Lauiver?

Fandom really does go through the 5 stages of grief. So far we have had denial, anger and now depression over this storyline. How long before bargaining and acceptance set in?

[dtissagirl]

I probably should prepare myself to really hate this storyline.

I'm very prepared to hate-watch this entire storyline. At least I have that. I'm so great at hate-watching, it's not even funny.

[Velocity23]

Australian promo

https://twitter.com/The__Squealer/status/686148352291909632

[Morrigan2575]

Aww Guggie is gonna be pissed at that promo.

Even knowing it was coming the confirmation has hit harder than expected. I'm nit sure I'm going to watch some of the upcoming episodes.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

It would be annoying if felicity is paralyzed forever bc:

Sara was dead for a year, isn't anymore.

Lazarus pitted thea

Roy got electrocuted by Ray, no long term consequences

Bullets miss everyone else on this show but change felicity's life

People fall off roofs with no.long term consequences

Damian dark has magic

Merlin collected savages ashes and we know he doesn't stay either

And we had immortals last crossover

Sooooooooooooop, yeah, super grounded in reality and it will be annoying if the only things that have stuck so far are tommys death, moiras death, and this.

[Belinea]

Hehe, wow the depression has set in, not only is Felicity going to be permanently paralyzed but they're doing it to break Olicity up and go back to Lauiver?

Well, at least it is just a worry right now and story wise nothing seems to indicate L/O.

I choose to believe that relationship is dead. It has been a long time since there were any romantic undertones. People just worry that the writers cannot let go of their comic love. Therefore Felicity needs the wheelchair and GA needs to be with BC.

I don't even know what Laurel's storyline will be in 4b. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

I assume that if O/F break up it is over the BM drama. (I also cannot imagine laurel wanting to be with Oliver after finding out about what he did back in the day)

I assume that Felicity should be able to walk again at some point. Probably towards the end of the season. (And I hope that next season during the 100th Episode O/F still get married..my personal wish)

Edit: After seeing that new promo I already feel for Felicity. Hopefully they can figure out a way to get her out of the chair because I really don't want that thing to stick around.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Belinea