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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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calliope1975

calliope1975

So... Regarding that comic strip that I posted... Are they planning on making Laurel likable by being friendly/complimenting/acknowledging Felicity? Because that's not going to make me like her :p

 

That's the first thing I noticed. KC now seems to be forever delivering weird lines to/about Felicity, and they always seem out of place. I don't know if it's the lines themselves or the delivery. Whatever. Keep trying to make Laurel relevant. 

 

 

 

Also, we better find out what DD wants with the bay in this ep. 

 

I hope there's some sunken treasure down there. Or a kraken.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

Too me, it would make much more sense to have Thea and Felicity bond over this. The two people closest to him. The two people who would be most effected by this child in his life. He always had an honest relationship with Felicity and he just promised Thea no more secrets. The scenes should write themselves.

That would be a nice & logical scene. Which is sadly why the writers won't pursue it. It's like they see logical and authentic solutions and do the complete opposite for !!Drama!!. I have lost faith in them pursuing the logical avenue to write themselves out of OQ mistakes until at least after 413, since again they completely underestimated the audience's response to their dumb & predictable story and its too hard to undo the scripts that are already in production. But my guess is TQ will either stay neutral in this fight or take OQ's side.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

So... Regarding that comic strip that I posted... Are they planning on making Laurel likable by being friendly/complimenting/acknowledging Felicity? Because that's not going to make me like her :p

 

Yep! The other way — Felicity complimenting, praising her — wasn't working (for me, anyway), so they've flipped the script, LOL! Unfortunately, it's the delivery, not the actual words that make this fall flat, IMO. Like that "which is why we love you line" from 408. My eyeballs almost rolled out of their sockets.

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looptab

looptab

That's the first thing I noticed. KC now seems to be forever delivering weird lines to/about Felicity, and they always seem out of place. I don't know if it's the lines themselves or the delivery.

I ask myself that same question often, and I came to the conclusion that it's the delivery. If you try and imagine anyone else saying the offending lines, they are fine.

Mostly I insert Thea, since the show doesn't give me anything with Thea and Felicity. You should try, haha. Much better that way.

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Chaser

Chaser

I didn't think about Thea being a secret kid. Her response is going to be interesting. I think the lying part is going to get to her, because he just said no more secrets, but I don't think she is going to be as angry as Felicity. Nor do I think she should to be honest. Aunt/Oliver's sister is different from Step-Mom/Oliver's wife.

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lexicon

lexicon

I didn't say that it was? I wrote that they seemed like observations to me, not compliments. This show has such a potential mess on its hands right now, personally I'm not even going to worry about a line or two between Laurel and Felicity at this point. Seems inconsequential to me.

 

Oh no, I didn't mean to imply that you thought that it was. In fact, you were pretty clear that you didn't think it was meant to be compliments. I should've quoted @tangerine95's post as well as I meant to respond to both her comment about TPTB having LL deliver small compliments to Felicity as well your post referencing the line about them loving Felicity for knowing stuff but it not being helpful. So...oops

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Does Laurel have a job anymore? 

 

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Thea to be there instead? She's been helping with Oliver mayoral bid. Laurel has not. I suppose Laurel needs something to do since they've taken away her only storyline in 3 years, Sara. 

Edited by Sakura12
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Wouldn't it make more sense is how we should open all of our thoughts especially regarding speculation... because then we know its not going to happen. I literally now imagine the writers room with people sitting around saying, wouldn't it make sense and then getting overruled. Because if it makes sense it's not worth enough to make it into an Arrow script. According to the writers, we need drama and gamechangers. They want seismic change and plot twists. Making sense or logic is so far out the window of possibility on ARROW.

 

Everything that makes sense is often the path not chosen by these writers. If it makes sense, then I'm almost positive it will NOT be the way the writers chose to take the story. I thought they had changed since s4 was doing better, but I've come to accept that I was wrong.

 

Mark my words, we are headed for a FS/LL friendship and bonding over OQ the bad BF, why because it makes no sense and goes against every positive momentum they've made in trying to rehabilitate the LL/OQ dynamic. And everybody loves to complain about their current BF to the BF's ex-gf/ current business partner? It's like basic female relationship writing 101. (plz note saracastic eye-roll).

Edited by kismet
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Felicity isn't at her job, and she has supported Oliver so it isn't weird that she would be there.

 

Does Laurel have a job anymore? 

 

Guys, there are these things called weekends, where people don't actually work. I mean, the kids should be in school, too, and there they are, at the beach. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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Chaser

Chaser

They only showed Laurel Lawyer in the first episode. They aren't even putting her in power suits to show her coming from and going to work. Tossing a line here or there also seems beyond them. They may be waiting until 4b to get into the Laurel as a vigilante and a DA storyline, but I'm now inclined to believe that was a toss away.

Frankly, Laurel shouldn't be there at all. Not with her job as an ADA. But you know, this show.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Oliver in the water...flashback or present? If present, do we think it's related to the limo or something else?  I'm thinking it's present because he seems to have the same sweater on that he does when the Ghosts are holding him.   So I don't thin it's limo related but I can't tell anymore...it's all a blur

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kismet

kismet

They really are a little panicky over at the CW. Isn't Mon a little early to release a new trailer and the comic preview?

 

Whatever, the episode looks decent. I feel like we will find out that bay hold a secret. I do not think we will know what because its too soon in the narrative to reveal that. Like others, I think it will be connected to the island, because that is what they always do.

 

Part of me just hopes that we actually get a legitimate cliffhanger this season again. I want to be wondering what happened after the limo tips over. I might be in the minority, but I really don't want thing tidied up in a bow for the winter finale. It's kinda exciting to have a jawdropper last scene. I enjoyed Slade's reveal, I felt that was jawdropping. But they can't do something that subtle this year considering we already know about DD. So it's going to have to be something tragic. And as much as I hated the car accident in ALIAS, I actually secretly loved it because it got me fired up for what would happen when the show would return. So if they end the episode on the limo accident and a quick shot to a smug DD, I will be content.

 

I know I am in the minority of people who believe it won't happen. But I do wonder if they are going to not have the proposal this episode. I feel like that was a tease by the ARROW production. I just don't see how a proposal is going to fit into all the non-stop you're all gonna die moments. But whatever, we know it won't last once the secret is revealed. I just don't want to have to deal with that emotional douchery by OQ, even if it is in the moment proposal.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Random things from the new promo:

 

- Lance finally finds out Malcolm is alive!

 

Can you explain this one, I think i missed it.

 

ETA: Never-mind, I see it now, I swear I have to watch these things 50 times to catch everything

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Chaser

Chaser

I think the cliffhanger is Oliver pulling Felicity bloody body from the limo.

Diggle confronts Andy about the shooting? Demands answers about what DD is doing with the Bay.

I'm not sure The CW PR is scrambling. This is the big mid season finale. It should get more build up.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Oliver in the water...flashback or present? If present, do we think it's related to the limo or something else?  I'm thinking it's present because he seems to have the same sweater on that he does when the Ghosts are holding him.   So I don't thin it's limo related but I can't tell anymore...it's all a blur

 

I don't think it's limo related either. Looked like he was in a container of some sort. Wasn't there a BTS video of Flashback Oliver diving into the ocean? I can't remember what he was wearing then, though.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

I think they're scrambling a little bit. They never release this much this early. The writers know they pissed off fans last week and Marc acting like a bratty child who got mad because no one was buying his story line showed his ass too. So yeah I wasn't expecting too much of a build up for this mid-season finale until Tuesday and really a hard press on Wednesday. They are pouring it on hard, I'm not complaining because it just gives me more to prepare myself with for Wednesday night.

 

On a side note that has nothing to do with Arrow: As far as The Flash mid-season finale not even watching that mess I saw way too much Patty for me to digest. Guess I'm not missing anything I gave up on that show as soon as they started with the bait and switch. Guess I could also FF past Patty but that might be every scene since they have deeply embedded her into all things dealing with Barry now even with the Flash!

Edited by Ann Mack
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kismet

kismet

I agree, I do not think the underwater scene they showed is limo related. The underwater shot is too hard to tell if it is FB or present day. I don't think in the BTS photo on the island, he was wearing a black sweater. But I could see them fading from present day underwater OQ to FB underwater OQ. Perhaps both times they are looking for or discovering the box.

 

 

I think the cliffhanger is Oliver pulling Felicity bloody body from the limo.

 

Honestly, OQ pulling a bloodied FS out of the limo is too resolved for me. Save that for the promos. Seeing who survived the accident takes all of the intensity away from the scene. I want tragic accident, smug DD & cut to black.

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Guest

Guest

I'm pretty sure Oliver underwater is from the flashbacks. There was a BTS picture or clip showing him diving into the sea and Poppy whatever her name is was standing by the shore watching him. It lines up with the episode being filmed at the time. 

 

Also, I hate how much Oliver's 'I love you' through the glass gets to me. DAMN YOU!

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kismet

kismet

I'm pretty sure Oliver underwater is from the flashbacks. There was a BTS picture or clip showing him diving into the sea and Poppy whatever her name is was standing by the shore watching him. It lines up with the episode being filmed at the time.

I think so too. I actually posted two photos from twitter. And the shooting does line up.

 

Also, I hate how much Oliver's 'I love you' through the glass gets to me. DAMN YOU!

It gets me too. The whole situation gets me because the withholding of the truth still doesn't diminish how much he loves FS. It only highlights how dumb he is to not realize that this is all going to blow up in his face. That even if withholding the truth is better for his son at the moment, how he negotiated himself out of telling FS that something was still bothering him by that stupid cuddle was a disastrous choice. Never Cuddle OQ, it never works out for you. Ying Yang kiss, arm porn, shoulder touch, ass gawk - but never cuddle. If OQ's gut reaction is to cuddle, it means he is likely doing something wrong.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Is this new filming or old?  If it's old maybe we should take it out of the spoiler thread since it aired in 408?  

 

If it's new then lets discuss what this means.

 

It's old - he says so on his Facebook, and they're all wearing the same clothes as they were in 4x08.

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kismet

kismet

Damn Stephen even dropped a YouTube for "Little Drummer Boy" yeah I would say passive aggressive is definitely right in his wheelhouse!

Just saw that tweet - Please tell me this Neil Diamond "LDB" is not the version that they have playing at any point in the show for an actual emotional moment. That has to be the worst version of the song for dramatic effect. And a pretty crappy rendition at baseline, and I have a special place in my heart for Neil Diamond. Please tell me they found a better version to use! Don't let me down show on the music front... they very rarely use non-Arrow music these days. I hope they chose wisely.

 

 

Stephen Amell ‏@amellywood 48m48 minutes ago

Wednesday.

#Arrow

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I wonder if a lot of the storyline was his idea, or just them meeting up at Jitters during the Flash part of the crossover last year? It's pretty unclear.

I always thought he was just talking about the scene from 308. That's from SDCC 2014, I have no idea if they would have planned this story out in June/July 2014 and held onto it (in it's original concept) for over a year
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I thought they always planned the secret kid storyline. I'm pretty sure SA's input was having Oliver bump into baby mama in Jitters on The Flash. 

Edited by Guest
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I always thought he was just talking about the scene from 308. That's from SDCC 2014, I have no idea if they would have planned this story out in June/July 2014 and held onto it (in it's original concept) for over a year

 

 

Yeah. I mean, he made it pretty clear today that he ~wants it, but I don't think he had a huge hand in how it's playing out. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

 

When  you see it revisited -- if you see it revisited this season or next --  just remember that they way they're going to reintroduce it is an idea I had."

 

I think it was just the introduction to her in Jitters last season, and then again with William this season. Sort of a "hey, wouldn't it be cool if a little boy bumped into Oliver in Jitters and it turned out to be his kid?" sort of thing.

 

I absolve him of the BM mess.

 

Here's my guess regarding LL & FS. I feel like the writers are going to seize the opportunity of BM drama to bring FS & LL closer together as friends. FS is going to turn to LL for comfort in dealing with a lying OQ.

Thank you, now I can brace myself for it.   Forewarned is forearmed.

 

They really have no idea how the fans react to Felcity/Laurel interactions, do they?  I can think of ways to put them together realistically in a scene but these writers never seem to get it right.  The "Felicity we love you but this isn't helping" just came off bitchy and condescending.

 

 

If Malcolm is going in as GA, does that mean DD still doesn't know about Oliver.

That's my guess. And I can understand why Oliver would do it that way (still keeps his GA identity secret) and of course MM would want to save Thea.  Wouldn't he???

 

It gets me too. The whole situation gets me because the withholding of the truth still doesn't diminish how much he loves FS. It only highlights how dumb he is to not realize that this is all going to blow up in his face.

Yeah, I think that's how they are going to excuse him, that he loves Felicity so much he'll do whatever he needs to not to lose her, including the lying that eventually does lose her.

 

I must be a heartless person because I feel no sympathy for Oliver in that gif. Felicity, on the other hand, really gets me.

Congrats for EBR for willing to go ugly in order to make the audience feel Felicity's emotions.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

I thought they always planned the secret kid storyline. I'm pretty sure SA's input was having Oliver bump into baby mama in Jitters on The Flash. 

 

I don't know how much input SA had on this storyline, but I do think the secret kid was planned from day one. I also think it was Sandra and Connor Hawke, and TIIC fucked up the casting, got called on it, and had to scrap that part of it. As was mentioned many times in the episode thread, then begs the question, why why why do we have to deal with this when it can't be done with Connor? Plus Felicity replacing Laurel as the LI, etc etc, why do I still love this show when it punishes me? 

Edited by calliope1975
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I don't think it even matters if SA likes the story though? I mean, EBR likes Ray Palmer and Raylicity. Did she hit her head? Probably but that's on her. We're not always gonna agree with what they enjoy as actors. 

 

 

I don't know how much input SA had on this storyline, but I do think the secret kid was planned from day one. I also think it was Sandra and Connor Hawke, and TIIC fucked up the casting, got called on it, and had to scrap that part of it. As was mentioned many times in the episode thread, then begs the question, why why why do we have to deal with this when it can't be done with Connor? Plus Felicity replacing Laurel as the LI, etc etc, why do I still love this show when it punishes me? 

 

I seriously think his only input was how he bumps into her. And I think his enjoyment stems from him being a dad in real life and wanting to explore that on the show. He likes storylines with heavy emotional beats. I can understand that. 

 

I definitely think the kid was supposed to be Connor though but there was so much outrage at the whitewashing that they changed it. And I do think the lying aspect would have made more sense if Oliver was with Laurel and they messed up not adapting it to Olicity's relationship. But these writers are not always on the ball, are they?

Edited by Guest
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