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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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bijoux

bijoux

Can someone explain to me why Malcolm is in these episodes? Him showing up twice at the lair was weird. Why would he show up to offer information on his own? It's not DD who once wanted the Ra's title, thereby affecting Malcolm. And then on Arrow they have a professor explaining Savage to them and Malcolm facing him down along with Oliver and Barry. What?

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

The most annoying thing about what MQ did was only done to protect her family's image.  It really had nothing to do with what was in the best interest of the Baby, BabyMama or OQ. It was done to keep the Queen family from having a illegitimate heir.

 

I know this was a few pages back, but I never got that impression? I think Moira did it because Oliver was freaking out,  it was her way to protect him.

 

Yeah, I'm 98-99% sure it won't happen, either.  But it's possible, if they have chemistry.  I would bet they would have done some kind of Laurel/Oliver/Felicity triangle at some point of not for the Anti-Chem of Doom.  

 

That's happening, according to KC, haha.

 

I think we'll find out why Malcolm is around in the Arrow part. Maybe he was in Star City because of something DD related, and happens to find out that, coincidence,  Vandal Savage is there too.

 

About the kid, and the possible Olicity drama, I'm sorry, but I don't know why Felicity would be all upset should Oliver choose to stay away from the kid? If he knew about him or she thought that was the case, maybe. I could get behind that. But I can't see why she should push him or be upset that he thinks that's the better course of action, given he just found out and who knows what situation the kid is in. I hope it's just some misunderstanding.

Edited by looptab
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bijoux

bijoux

I hope they give a reason for Sara joining everyone since she's in town and presumably in the know. I have a hard time imagining her not wanting to help her sister and friends since she went through great lengths to help that sister and keep her safe in the past. Unless Laurel decides to keep it quiet and not involve Sara, giving her time to acclimate.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Did anyone notice in the preview for tonight's ep that Laurel and Diggle get roasted by some kind of fireball and disintegrate? I wonder if that's a vibe/hallucination, or if they're going to introduce time travel on Arrow so Barry can go back and stop it.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Did anyone notice in the preview for tonight's ep that Laurel and Diggle get roasted by some kind of fireball and disintegrate? I wonder if that's a vibe/hallucination, or if they're going to introduce time travel on Arrow so Barry can go back and stop it.

Was that Laurel and Dig? I thought maybe the female was Kendra. I'm guessing it's a vibe or something.
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bijoux

bijoux

Was that Laurel and Dig? I thought maybe the female was Kendra. I'm guessing it's a vibe or something.

It's definitely Laurel with Dig. I have no idea what happens there to be honest.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I was thinking maybe Vandal Savage kidnaps them, and that's why Oliver and Barry have the Hawks in chains in the big warehouse -- they're going for an exchange of "hostages", except they have the secret weapon thingy?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I don't think it's time travel, way too much already going on in this episode to introduce that to Arrow.

If it's not a vibe then I'm thinking dream/nightmare.

I don't think there's a kidnapping, I think Arrow/Flash go in pretending to turn the Hawks over but it's a trap. I'm guessing the rest of the masks show up in the van (scene of BC using her bark collar) probably with whatever weapon Team Arrow/Flash go back to SC to make.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Defiance was cancelled, so Anna Hopkins is free to return to Arrow in the future.  :(

 

I really don't see Oliver ever loving or being in love with Samantha.  It's not like he took her picture with him on the boat trip - or even gave her a thought in the past seven or eight years.

 

In that one scene between SA and AH last season, I didn't see any chemistry between them.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I wouldn't be surprised if she comes back for a guest stint, but I really, REALLY hope not. CW bullshit aside, I think they've gone pretty far to establish that Oliver is happy, he wants a life with Felicity, and if spoilers for the next ep stand, he's going to propose to her. I don't think the woman who took a payout to keep his child a secret from him (and continued to do so even after Moira was dead) is going to come in for some kind of disruptive love triangle. I just DNW the kid to be a whole recurring dramatic damn thing. So if baby mama stays off screen, that makes me feel better.

I'll wait to see how tonight's episode plays out before I get worked up about it again - LAST NIGHT WAS DARK TIMES FOR ME.

Edited by apinknightmare
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bijoux

bijoux

I think the chances of Samantha (?) coming into play romantically are sub zero. However, I'm not really sure the actors should have portrayed any chemistry last year. Their characters had a really uncomfortable and, I imagine from Oliver's POV, very brief history together. I will admit they cast a cute kid.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Re: the preview posted on EW. I have so many questions about Malcolm playing third banana to Barry and Oliver in a meeting with a monologuing Vandal Savage. Was he bored in Nanda Parbat after he canceled his cable, and now he misses the Hallmark channel or something?

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bijoux

bijoux

I have no idea about Malcolm either. I additionally wonder why he's in street clothes. If ever there was a place where his LoA garb is more appropriate, it's this.

 

It's got to be Savage with the staff in the scene where we see Dig and Laurel in the promo. It's the same effects.

 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

Tomorrow's episode A-story is just more setup for LoT.  Reincarnated flying people, for goodness' sake.  Pure silliness.

What have they done to my beloved show, sigh.

I saw today that the Big Bad had killed the Stargate expies more than 200 times or something? And I thought that Arrow had pushed the enveloppe with all the resurrections so far. Sweet child of summer that I was. 

 

Needless to say that between the mask/superpowers infestation and the Kid and Baby Mama plague, I will sit out this one.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

What have they done to my beloved show, sigh.

I saw today that the Big Bad had killed the Stargate expies more than 200 times or something? And I thought that Arrow had pushed the enveloppe with all the resurrections so far. Sweet child of summer that I was. 

 

Needless to say that between the mask/superpowers infestation and the Kid and Baby Mama plague, I will sit out this one.

Yeah, I'm out for now, too.  Didn't watch last night, not watching tonight, not watching 4.09.  After 4.10 airs I may watch the next day if the misery level isn't too high.

 

I wasn't going to watch LoT anyway, bc of the Cane Toad, but all this setup would have turned me off watching it even if he weren't going to be on it.  From reviews and comments, I don't seem to be the only one.

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Chaser

Chaser

I'm just going to state for the record my lack of enthusiasm for the kid storyline is not because of Olicity or because I don't want to see growth in Oliver, it's because I don't like kids (and the drama they come with) on shows like Arrow. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm just going to state for the record my lack of enthusiasm for the kid storyline is not because of Olicity or because I don't want to see growth in Oliver, it's because I don't like kids (and the drama they come with) on shows like Arrow.

Same. I don't care about ship stuff, I just don't want a kid or the drama that will come along with him.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'm just going to state for the record my lack of enthusiasm for the kid storyline is not because of Olicity or because I don't want to see growth in Oliver, it's because I don't like kids (and the drama they come with) on shows like Arrow. 

Same.  Plus I don't want that angst, and I think it's totally unnecessary with everything else going on.

 

I guess best case at this point is that Oliver decides to leave the kid alone, but I have to say, that seems really OOC to me, especially this Oliver.  S3 Oliver, definitely, but add his current emotional health to his near-obsession with family, and I can't see him forsaking any relationship.  And even if they go there, we'll always know there's this kid bomb out there waiting to show up at Oliver' door: "Why didn't you want me?!?"  BLECCH.

 

And seriously, can anyone think of any adult show not originally featuring kids that was better off for adding kids?  I think Friends was temporarily harmed by Ross's stupid older kid, but then he mostly disappeared, and Ross and Rachel's baby was largely invisible, so kids on Friends were mostly a wash.  That's the only one I can think of that wasn't totally screwed by adding kids.

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Balaclava

Balaclava

I'm just going to state for the record my lack of enthusiasm for the kid storyline is not because of Olicity or because I don't want to see growth in Oliver, it's because I don't like kids (and the drama they come with) on shows like Arrow. 

 

Same, despite of all the love and caring i have for Olicity, this is not the type of show to have kids walking around 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

And seriously, can anyone think of any adult show not originally featuring kids that was better off for adding kids?

 

The only genre show that I think benefited by adding children was Supernatural and that is only the Weechesters (young Sam and Dean)  and was done in flashbacks to enhance the Winchesters saga.  SPN does make good use of children in the MoTW episodes. But ongoing children...nope didn't work for this viewer with Dean's pseudo step-son, Ben. And boy they way they stopped that storyline...well. ..anyway. 

 

I'm just becoming so depressed over the state of Arrow. I mean I just want my show back. You know the one about Oliver Queen becoming the Green Arrow and defending Starling City with his compadres. :(

Edited by catrox14
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calliope1975

calliope1975

The only genre show that I think benefited by adding children was Supernatural and that is only the Weechesters (young Sam and Dean)  and was done in flashbacks to enhance the Winchesters saga.  SPN does make good use of children in the MoTW episodes. But ongoing children...nope didn't work for this viewer with Dean's pseudo step-son, Ben. And boy they way they stopped that storyline...well. ..anyway. 

 

I really liked young Sam and Dean and getting some insight into their child hood. I was even okay with the one off when Dean thought he had a son. But once they added Ben and his mom to the show, I hated it for a variety of reasons. Aging is a factor with young children as well. Over only a few episodes, the child they are trying to sell as 7ish on The Walking Dead looks way too old for how he is behaving. I have zero desire to see any of that on Arrow.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Flashbacks and one-offs don't count (and I agree that the FB kids on SPN, esp. baby Dean, were not bad). 

 

And I don't even just mean genre shows.  Any adult show, period, that didn't start out with a kid but added one.  Usually shows in their death throes do that, and I honestly cannot figure out what the hell the Arrow EPs are thinking.  If they were just stuck with this from S2, they had the easy out of making the kid not his.  It's actually believable...20-ish-year-old young people tend to get around.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Honestly, I don't mind kid, even surprise kids on shows once they show up.  My issues with April on Gilmore Girls was how her characters was used to irrationally end a relationship.  I liked the kid by herself and even liked Luke's interaction with her.  Just hated what they made the characters do because of her. It's the manufactured angst that I can't stand and yeah, the surprise kid usually comes with that. 

 

I am still hoping that in this case with Oliver, the kid element will only be about Oliver figuring out how to balance all parts of his life rather than on going OOC behavior.  So far, I actually have a lot of hopes that this will be a GOOD thing for Oliver's character growth. SA is great with his daughter and always seems at ease with kids he meets at ComicCons so I expect to see a nice warmth between him and the kid actor if/when they get any scenes but I also expect that since the show doesn't have a place for kids on it (just too dangerous day to day) and they have him living in CC, he will really not be that big of a deal.  So as long as he's not used as an unrealistic wedge, I don't think it's that big of a deal. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

This just occurred to me, but who's watching Andy while the whole team is in CC? Is he still in that cage? 

 

Hah! I totally forgot about Andy in the cage, and I suspect the Show has as well. Maybe there's a temp agency to take care of caged prisoners for vigilantes. I bet Amanda Waller uses them frequently. 

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looptab

looptab

Hah! I totally forgot about Andy in the cage, and I suspect the Show has as well. Maybe there's a temp agency to take care of caged prisoners for vigilantes. I bet Amanda Waller uses them frequently. 

I had forgotten, too, until I tried to remember what happened in the previous episode, haha. They didn't even mentioned him in the Flash episode. I hope they leave him with enough food and water!

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I am still hoping that in this case with Oliver, the kid element will only be about Oliver figuring out how to balance all parts of his life rather than on going OOC behavior.  So far, I actually have a lot of hopes that this will be a GOOD thing for Oliver's character growth.

 

I haven't seen and can't really imagine anyone thinking this will be a BAD thing for Oliver's character growth. It's not like he's going to revert or regress because he learns he has a kid. He's obviously going to grow and I'm sure it would all be very heartwarming, if only I could bring myself to care about it.

 

I went back to the 220 episode thread because I knew I'd posted my feelings about it as soon as I saw that damn flashback, and I stand by them. I don't believe adding a kid makes for good television:

 

I'm really unhappy with this development, and I'm skeptical that this is a good move for the show. I just find that there are only so many things you can do with a child character on a show like this; most of them end up being treated as an object to be protected at all costs, which is tiresome. It limits the things the parent characters can do. It pulls focus from interesting characters in favor of a child actor, who is probably not very strong, and therefore not very appealing. 

 

 

I'm quite satisfied with Oliver's character growth, and I certainly don't need to see him become an overnight father to a kid I don't know or care about, whose mother I don't know or care about, in order to feel like he's really becoming self-actualized. I would prefer he not even approach fatherhood until the last minute of the series finale, tbh. The potential for one avenue of character growth doesn't automatically make that avenue interesting or appealing television, for me. It might for you and that's cool! But I don't think anyone who is dreading this storyline is overreacting for feeling that way. I, like others, can't think of a single instance where I thought an otherwise-adult show adding a kid was a good move. But I can think of 10-12 where I really hated it, and it feels unlikely that this will be the first in the Win column. So personally, I'm just gritting my teeth and hoping that this season is the most we ever see of this kid, and from there on, it's off-screen phone calls and some pictures on the refrigerator.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I had forgotten, too, until I tried to remember what happened in the previous episode, haha. They didn't even mentioned him in the Flash episode. I hope they leave him with enough food and water!

Maybe that was why Malcolm and his buds were there, to look after the prisoner.  In the dark.  They were always there, just hanging until the right moment to step out of the shadows. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

most of them end up being treated as an object to be protected at all costs, which is tiresome.

And you know what, we've already SEEN THAT.  Part of what I hated so much about S3 was Oliver's weird relationship with Thea.  He treated her like his kid, was obsessed with protecting her, and I absolutely hated it.  At least this kid would actually be his kid, rather than a young adult sibling, but I still don't need a repetition of any storylines from S3.

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Chaser

Chaser

One of the words to describe the Olicity in this episode is 'honorable.' What does that mean?

 

Does Felicity take her issues to the extreme and try to remove herself from the relationship so he can focus on his son? I don't know why that popped into my head.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

One of the words to describe the Olicity in this episode is 'honorable.' What does that mean?

 

Does Felicity take her issues to the extreme and try to remove herself from the relationship so he can focus on his son? I don't know why that popped into my head.

Yeah, I can kind of see her doing that.  Telling him they can take a break while he works stuff out.  Presumably he declines her offer.

 

I'd be waaaaay more worried if we weren't pretty sure he proposes in the next ep.  Which I think is very weird timing, btw.  I mean, it's Arrow, so everything's a rush, but IRL most people would wait more than a week post-surprise kid news to get engaged.

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Genki

Genki

In my head cannon Lyla is watching Andy and using her Argus contacts for support. Still needs to stretch my disbelief but whatever. I like SA's acting when he saw William of the first time and I'm sure it will give some good scenes for SA, but I'm hoping that the Kinder Surprise* will be the same non-event it was in Nikita. 

 

*He comes with a toy.....mmm chocolate

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

In the term of the show as a whole it was a blip IMO, Michael's evil arm did more damage to their relationship.

Okay, but did it temporarily break them up?  I seem to remember Nikita basically telling Michael to go be with his family, and he did for like a month or so. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

Well, that is definitely Laurel and Diggle on fire or something in the promo but I don't know what the hell that means. Can Barry still change time? Because that seems like one of the only ways to save them. Unless it's not exactly what it looks like. Who knows?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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If it's real and they actually die then yeah time travel. I'm of the opinion that it's a vibe or dream/nightmare/hallucination. So I don't think time travel will be involved.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I can't imagine that they would use time travel to undo real deaths in this episode, because come April, we'll be asking why Barry didn't undo the death of the grave recipient (well, depending on who it is).  Don't even go there, show.  

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Genki

Genki

Okay, but did it temporarily break them up?  I seem to remember Nikita basically telling Michael to go be with his family, and he did for like a month or so. 

 

I remember that too, but still if something similar happened in Arrow it will be more organic that Pod!Felicity dating Ray, for me.

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