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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Wanting Felicity to have a storyline that doesn't revolve around someone else does not mean I want Felicity to be the main character. I'd actually like this show to remember Oliver is the lead but that seems like a long shot these days what with the focus on literally every other mask but him. JFC. Smh.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

When did we go from Felicity's dad storyline should get the focus it deserve  to she is not the main character thus is not important what storyline her dad storyline gets? Being a main character and giving a fourth/fifth billed character are not mutually exclusive. Someone can be a supporting character and still get a couple of episodes focused on them. 

 

Writers hyped Felicity's dad soo much that making him one off would not do for me. They created this monster and they need to deal with in the appropriate way without disappointing loads of people. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm actually glad that Felicity's father isn't DD or even a member of HIVE. Let HIVE be Diggle's story, and DD/HIVE Oliver&Diggle's and next season Felicity's father comes on as his own story or maybe part of the Bratva flashbacks.  (We are going to finally get Bratva flashbacks next season, right?)

 

David Ramsey said it was 'drop the mic' when he was told who Felicity's father was.  It may have been DD and they changed their minds, or it may be an entirely different genius techie villain.

 

When we finally do get Felicity's father, I don't want it to be a minor part of someone else's story.

 

EP Wendy Mericle says. “We are actually figuring out Felicity’s father as we speak. It’s not going to be tied to H.I.V.E. It’s going to be something that is more personal, emotional, speaks directly to her story, and a big bombshell that’s going to be coming out — a big reveal between her and Oliver later in the story — and the story is going to really speak to that.”

So abandonment issues tied to Oliver's kid?

 

Killing Laurel would be an admission, once and for all, that they just can't make her work, and I don't think they're going to do that.

I think it would be and these guys will never give up on her.  But on the other hand, i think they have a real fondness for the Black Canary that sometimes we don't see through our "Oh, Laurel" glasses.

 

LOL at Roy coming back to increase the betting on "Who's Grave is It Anyway?"  Really only Sara is 100% safe because she's needed for the LoT.

 

As i recall, Barry's super metabolism doesn't allow him to get drunk or even buzzed.  So, maybe her prefers the taste of soda since there's no real point to alcohol for him

I didn't like the taste of alcohol when I was young but now, there are some drinks I would drink a lot more of if the alcholol didn't affect me.  I guess Barry is still young, going by that and by his emotional reactions.

 

I'm pretty psyched for the Ancient Egypt flashbacks and them disproving my GENIUS THEORY that Daniel Jackson was in fact one of Carter Hall's reincarnations in that he accidentally forgot who he was, but was still drawn to Egypt and aliens and shit. #stargaaaaate is a great big swiiiiirl

Don't forget, he was also Hawkman for a while.

 

 

EBR is the 5th actor billed in the credits, BUT both Barrowman and Paul B get the prestigious "With" and "And" last positions in the credits, which means EBR is the lowest billed actor of them all.

She's the newbie.  Everyone else, including Willa Holland, has worked on various series before.

Isn't it all about what your agent can negotiate for you rather than how prominent your role in the show is?

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jay741982

jay741982

I've already seen tweets in response to that. They are like "Well we just found Out Felicity gets ignored yet again per the WM interview why be excited that Felicity would get this its probably Mr Prefect". I do have admit it does tick me off that Felicity can't get her own story but we have to endure Lance family drama every season

Probably not regarding Felicity, it's probably Curtis.

Which pisses me off.

Yep my fear as well. I've seen people tweeting to MG and WM today that they are tired of Felicity propping new heroes and not getting her own story

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tarotx

tarotx

We'll see how it goes. I think it's too soon to get into Curtis's hero story. 4.11 is still Just half way through the season.

 

Could it be Diggle in the Wheelchair and getting tech enhancement? The Spartan of the WildCat comics (that DC owns) is kind of a Cyborgish character (though much much worst since it's just Yohn's personality in a robot body). Perhaps DC said no to Cyborg but said they could do Cyborg as Spartan?

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Chaser

Chaser

It could be Diggle in the wheelchair. It is a Diggle centric episode.

All signs point to Felicity being in the hospital but we didn't get photos of DR. It's possible they are both hurt.

Echo isn't in Van City, not to mean he didn't already film scenes. I want Felicity to take lead on any tech. Be it for her or Diggle.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

I am still expecting QL to be in the grave.  Like Felicity, the anvils are falling.  That said, Thea might have moved up the list a bit.  Thea called Malcolm for help after her encounter with Darhk.  Who is always Malcolm's priority? Malcolm.  Makes me wonder if his plan involves Thea getting in closer proximity to Darhk which then backfires on Thea.   She ends up in the grave and Oliver vows to kill him (Malcolm).  Malcolm is set up to be the big bad (again) for S5.  Roy coming back could be to help Thea. Same scenario but he ends up in the grave.  Wonder if he'll be billed as a guest star or a special guest star?

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I think Roy is higher for me than Thea. TQ just has too much story potential and is OQ's only real family left.

 

As it stands now for Main Cast IMO - 1. LL 60 /QL 40;  2. Roy; 3. Malcolm (if they bring Nyssa back); 4. Thea; 5. Diggle; 6. Felicity.

 

But I still think Alex is higher than 2-5 and TPTB chose their words very carefully and essentially bended the truth.

Edited by kismet
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'll hold back judgment until I understand the circumstances, but if it's Roy, I'll be irritated. I mean, he fakes his death to get Oliver off the hook for his crimes as the Hood/Arrow, but then somehow comes back to town and dies for real and is buried under...what name? So stupid. 

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kismet

kismet

Does anyone else immediately think of Unchained Melody after the release of 412 title? I feel like there is going to be a pottery scene or something... I wonder which dead people we will see this year? And who gets to play Whoopi?

 

I'm taking bets now that there will be a Ditto dropped somewhere in the episode.

 

Perhaps I've wandered too far off into Ghost fanfic... But its just too easy.... esp with Roy coming back who kinda reminds me of Patrick Swayze hair puff.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I want to find out who pitched the idea for the flash forward grave and kick them where it hurts.

 

I see it as testing the waters for what's to come once they run out of flashbacks.  Be afraid.

WM said it was a "prominent" character, although what that means to her, I have no idea.

Didn't it also get framed more specifically than just "prominent" in all those post 4-1 episode interviews?  I thought it was said it was gone to be a regular.  I still think that could include Roy if you squint.  Still think QL is most likely but they could bring Roy back for 4-12 and make plans for future episodes as well.   His death, while redundant and annoying since it would undo the great swerve last season would matter to me.  It would have impact and repercussions on all the characters. So if they leave the door open for his return after 4-12, then Roy gets bumped up on the list. 

 

I'm not even bothering to get invested in the Hawks until LoT premieres and they have their own writers writing them. Her scenes with Cisco fell flat for me. None of the promos or scenes have made me think her acting will be must-see TV. Then again, a lot of clips are not favorable to the actors. Which is why I'm waiting until she gets together with her real cast & writers.

 

The have given her almost nothing to work with.  Really the ONLY thing they gave her was the fake out about being allergic to chocolates and morally opposed to flowers. Otherwise she hasn't even had lines beyond "do you want coffee" and "Yes, I will go out on a date with you."  Plus, I'm sorry, but Cisco looks like he is fourteen.  I think someone described it as him dating his babysitter.  I like the actress and she as a character hasn't done anything off putting so that's more than I can say about some characters. 

 

 

I actually wonder if the surprise kid + the abandonment issues will reveal that Felicity doesn't EVER want kids, and that this is something Oliver is gonna have to accept about her.

I've wondered about it but it just doesn't seem like a deal breaker when Oliver as GA is in no position to think about starting a family and Felicity is only 26 years old.  That clock is not even ticking.  They just have so much time before it really would even be a point of contention  and as pointed out upthread, there's enough time where she could even change her mind not to mention the fact that Oliver already has at least one kid.    It feels like it should be a non issue. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

"Unchained" could refer to bionic wo(man) if tech can help someone seriously injured.

 

 

As it stands now for Main Cast IMO - 1. LL 60 /QL 40;  2. Roy; 3. Malcolm (if they bring Nyssa back); 4. Thea; 5. Diggle; 6. Felicity.

Didn't Katrina Law's pilot get picked up?  I doubt they would get rid of Malcolm if she has only limited availability.  Even in only the occasional episode, he's got too much potential.  And I doubt Oliver would shed a tear at his graveside.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

The visual effects supervisor just tweeted about the scene Brian Ford Sullivan mentioned earlier, and it's a Felicity scene.

http://twitter.com/jldinsdale/status/667910163429515264

And

http://twitter.com/jldinsdale/status/667914252708130816

They wouldn't give Felicity a superpower -- would they?  Or something mystical?   Those words "seismic change" keep ringing in my ears. 

 

***

 

Change of subject.  Someone asked upthread if there was some kind of connection between the Hawks and Vandal Savage in the comics and who knows, maybe there is (just not something easily found via a Google search) but part of the Hawk's origin story includes a third party, the one that put the curse on them to be reborn again and again just to lose each other.  From Wikipedia:

 

In the days of ancient Egypt, Prince Khufu is engaged in a feud with his rival, the Egyptian priest Hath-Set. The priest eventually captures both Khufu and his consort Chay-Ara, and kills them. Millennia later, in 1940, Khufu is reincarnated as American archaeologist Carter Hall, and Chay-Ara as Shiera Sanders. Hath-Set himself is reincarnated as a scientist named Anton Hastor. Upon finding the ancient knife Hath-Set used to kill him, Hall regains his memories of his past life and recognizes Hastor as the reincarnated evil priest

 

I wonder if the LoT twist will be to have Vandal Savage fill the part of Hath-Set. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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jay741982

jay741982

Does anyone else immediately think of Unchained Melody after the release of 412 title? I feel like there is going to be a pottery scene or something... I wonder which dead people we will see this year? And who gets to play Whoopi?

 

I'm taking bets now that there will be a Ditto dropped somewhere in the episode.

 

Perhaps I've wandered too far off into Ghost fanfic... But its just too easy.... esp with Roy coming back who kinda reminds me of Patrick Swayze hair puff.

If Arrow gets its GHOST on let it be An Olicity pottery scene lol

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

Looks like Felicity's getting a code name in 411. Yay! Let the months of speculation begin. 

smoakingarrows asked:
Could you give us a clue about Felicity's codename? Have you chosen it yet? In what episode does it appear for the 1st time? At least one letter in it? (Everyone on Team Arrow has an awesome codename, when can I expect my genius to get some identity-concealling-love?) Please Uncle Guggie! Love from Panama!

 

marcguggenheim answered:
No.  Yes.  411.  A.

In that order.

 

Edited by calliope1975
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kismet

kismet

You guys are killing my Ghost Fantasy Buzz.... :(

 

 

Realistically with Unchained coming after AWOL, I wonder if it will be about a prisioner breaking free. Perhaps DD has found Roy and had him chained. And Roy gets out.... he unchains himself & perhaps this parallels Poppy's Great Escape. Or maybe Andy finds his way out of chains... Or my fav, perhaps we find OQ in chains again ;)

 

YAY for FS codename! He was really generous with that "a" 

 

Don't think they are going the wheelchair route and frankly the bionic person thing is just a hard pass for me too. The ATOM suit was wicked expensive to make & run. We don't need another production $$ drainer with some bionic tech for any member of TA.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

I'm disappointed about them punting on Felicity's father because Felicity's other storylines outside of her relationship with Oliver are really lackluster.  I remember Stephen Amell commenting that he knew Felicity was important when they built her a set.  Well, they talked about one of Felicity's big S4 storylines would be stepping into the CEO role and so they  . . . built Curtis a lab.  I'm suspecting when the time comes to save Palmer Tech it will be because of tech created by Curtis or possibly Ray.  

 

Not that I was all that interested in another "daddy issues" storyline--Arrow has done this to DEATH--but I see Felicity slipping into the same situation she did last year, where we never get any idea of anything she wants or feels outside of how it relates to her relationship to Oliver, and most of her actions center around forwarding the destiny of the masked baby heroes.  I really like what they are doing with Digg, and I think they are doing a beautiful job telling Thea's story again this year, but Felicity is turning vague for me.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Codename with an "A" and "seismic changes" for the team hacker? Quake? No, wait, that's Daisy's on SHIELD. :) I'm excited to find out what Felicity's codename will be. I really hope it's not going to be lame (dunno how I feel about it possibly being "Overwatch"). I'm also disappointed that Felicity's "Who's your Daddy?" storyline is, apparently, getting pushed back but kinda relieved because MG said they're not going to rush it (hello, Laurel's "Starling City's Next Top Vigilante" and "That's So Laurel" arcs) and Mericle pretty much confirmed it won't get lost in this season's overarching H.I.V.E arc. That's comforting, to me. At the very least, for any of her fans still fretting over the flash-forward grave, this kinda confirms that it's so not going to be Felicity.

 

On a different note, I'm ridiculously amused by the wheelchair/paralysis speculation leaps. Mostly because I learned something about myself. My imagination is seriously lacking in major angst/hurt/comfort factors because the first thing I thought of when I saw the wheelchair was, oh! Maybe, Felicity has to deal with a broken leg (or Diggle or whoever ends up using it, if it indeed gets used). Paralysis did not even enter my mind until I read the specs. Lol.

 

I mean, I get that the show might want to wink-nudge at the Oracle connection but a broken leg can also lead to a temporarily wheelchair-bound Felicity without having to deal with long-term or real-world actual trauma implications related to paralysis? And I don't think this show's writing team can tackle a paralysis arc and give it the proper attention it should have, especially how the person and their loved ones deal with it when it just happened. Besides, they burn through storylines so fast that I doubt they'd keep anyone in a wheelchair for long.

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bijoux

bijoux

So, that's a no on Overlord. Pity.

Yay, Roy. Although I do admit that first reaction was followed by worrying for a bit about him being thrown in the death pool. Roy deserves better. The observations that it's too soon for that to make sense are on point and appreciated.

I don't really mind Felicity's father not being part of the HIVE. If Dig's connected to this season's bad organisation, it makes sense for Felicity to be connected to the next season's.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I'm totally clueless when it comes to comics. Would you mind explaining this a bit more?

 

I might be wrong on this, but I thought the whole point of the Babs becoming Oracle storyline was so that she could learn how to be a hero without being physically able to go out and fight crime. Felicity didn't do that in the first place, so paralyzing her to help her "find another way" is pointless. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Why are people saying Felicity's father storyline is getting pushed back? When did they say that?

I'm totally clueless when it comes to comics. Would you mind explaining this a bit more?

Oracle is Barbara Gordon, formerly known as Batgirl. Batgirl was a member of the Bat family and one of the better/more physical fighters in DC comics. Batgirl was shot in the back and paralyzed by The Joker in The Killing Joke. I'm not as versed in BoP as others here but my understanding of Oracle and why fans love her so much is that her story is about finding out if she can still be useful, be a hero, be apart of the life/family she chose (caped crusaders) when she lost a defining aspect of her life. This is a woman who basically cut off ties with everyone she knew after becoming paralyzed, turned herself into an information broker providing information to the heroes so they can take down the bad guys without them ever knowing who she was (other that Oracle). Until Dinah comes along and the BoP team is eventually formed.

Felicity can't fight, there's no equivalent between Barbara getting paralyzed and becoming Oracle and Felicity (theoretically) becoming paralyzed because Felicity's life as part of TA wouldn't really have changed. She was always in the cave, always on her computers, always helping the team while not being in the field.

If Arrow wanted to do an "Oracle type" story for Felicity it would almost be the reverse of Barbara's story. Felicity would have to lose her computer knowledge/genius level intelligence and figure out if she could still help the team and be the person she's become in some other way.

When I see the comments about putting Felicity in a wheelchair because Oracle it's a very superficial association

Oracle = Genius computer hacker in a wheelchair

Felicity = Genius computer hacker sans wheelchair.

But there's more to both characters, calling Felicity Oracle wouldn't require a wheelchair.

As for Felicity's codename, I'm up for anything as long as it's not Arrowette or Overwatch.

I really wanted them to use "Uplink" she was a meta and a villain (part of Basilisk) but I liked the name and, it worked for Felicity in the show, IMO.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Why are people saying Felicity's father storyline is getting pushed back? When did they say that?

 

Not sure. WM said they were figuring it out whenever that interview had taken place, so seems like there's a strong possibility it's still coming this season, just not the way some people hoped/expected. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Here's a pretty good read re: Babs becoming Oracle: a review of Oracle: Year One:

http://geekygimp.com/comic-review-2-the-batman-chronicles-5-oracle-year-one/

 

This book is legit awesome, btw, if you guys feel like reading it, it's on Comixology for like, 2 bucks.

 

 

I also didn't see anything in what Wendy said that meant they're delaying Papa Smoak. She said they're figuring it out right now, which imo is showrunner speak for: we're breaking this story right now. And the timing is pretty on-par with everything Wendy said in that IGN interview from SDCC. Back then they didn't know exactly when he would show up. It looks like now they do.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Not sure. WM said they were figuring it out whenever that interview had taken place, so seems like there's a strong possibility it's still coming this season, just not the way some people hoped/expected.

That's what I thought, the wording is reminiscent of the last interview WM gave that came out on 10/29. Plus we know MG/WM met with Berlanti the week ending 10/23 to provide their plans for the back 10 episodes, tells me Papa Smaok (whomever he is) will show up in 414-423.
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I never really thought the show would Make Felicity Oracle. I only mention Oracle as a Joke. As in the show making some Comic fans happy at the break by seemingly killing the non comic GA character, but bring them low by having her still alive as Oracle. Making Felicity Oracle seems like the one thing the Comic fans dread more than Olicity. Though I don't know if I was the only one that mentioned Oracle and the song line Your so Vain you think this song is about you is playing in my head right now. 

Edited by tarotx
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tangerine95

tangerine95

I thought what WM said about her dad sounded pretty good and I'm someone who really wanted DD to be her dad.I took her saying they are figuring it out to mean they were at least breaking the story not that they are figuring out who he is.Looking at how much time was spent on LoT set up,I'm glad its happening in the other half of the season tbh.And I liked that they will make sure the story is about Felicity.

I really don't think they would put Felicity in a wheelchair permanently.Maybe for an episode while she recovers or something at the most.They aren't letting them use Oracle and even if they were allowed to use the name I still doubt they would have put her in a wheelchair.Even if the EPs wanted to and I don't think they do,IMO CW and WB wouldn't let them do that.

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kismet

kismet

Oracle the name by definition would work for Felicity in the role she does. Oracle the codename based on the comics makes less sense based upon previously discussed reasons. Regardless, I think it is off the table.

 

I'm hoping its not Overwatch, because that is the ugliest code name ever. I never heard Arrowette suggested before today, but please NO that is so diminutive. It's bad enough the world is stuck with Supergirl because of comics & inherent sexism of the olden days.

 

I'm so eager to hear it. I hope they came up with a good one. I am partial to Sage (& it includes an "a"). I hope its not something cheesy like Angel. I'm still a little disappointed by Spartan. I think they could have done better for dIg, but they were trying to make the Face Mask work & have a purpose. But I wonder if they will keep with Greek Mythology and do Athena or Artemis. Athena would be really fitting.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I'm hoping its not Overwatch, because that is the ugliest code name ever. I never heard Arrowette suggested before today, but please NO that is so diminutive. It's bad enough the world is stuck with Supergirl because of comics & inherent sexism of the olden days.

Arrowette was jokingly tossed out on TWOP out as an alternative code name for Laurel back in S2.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Bonnie_King_(New_Earth)

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Chaser

Chaser

I like the word "Beacon" as a code name. It would tie into the light imagery often linked to Felicity and it has the letter A in it. It's easy to say and doesn't reveal her gender.

LOL I read that as Bacon

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kismet

kismet

I like the word "Beacon" as a code name. It would tie into the light imagery often linked to Felicity and it has the letter A in it. It's easy to say and doesn't reveal her gender.

 

Good point about her Gender being concealed too.... Although not sure they are that thoughtful. People & logic has basically pleaded with them for over 4 years to get codename for protection.

LOL I read that as Bacon

Hysterical!!! Not sure if that is the best codename considering she is Jewish... but it would throw people of the smell :)

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