Spoiler Discussion Thread

[lemotomato]

I thought the fight footage was a rough cut, not the finished product. It looked pretty unpolished.

[AyChihuahua]

Anyone else paying special attention to the directing on this episode?

 

I wasn't feeling the action shots they showed in the Producers Preview.

So that I can rip that douchenozzle on Twitter when/if his episode sucks, YES.

 

First person POV shakycam sucks.  

 

Hey, some of you guys called Vlad/Poppy relationship!  Good job!  I still don't care, though!

 

WILL NEVER STOP HATING THE CANE TOAD.

 

Episode has a bunch of weird cuts so far.

Edited November 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Thanks! I knew Poppy was related to Vlad.... it was just so obvious... I guess the LI might still be on the table since they went with bro instead of husband/lover. A

 

Also the Canary Cry still looks dumb. Even with a shaky cam introduction.

 

How long do we think before Alex is in on the secret and then ultimately killed as a result.... Are we sure they aren't pulling our leg and its really Alex in the grave? They did say a main cast member in an interview right?

[apinknightmare]

How long do we think before Alex is in on the secret and then ultimately killed as a result.... Are we sure they aren't pulling our leg and its really Alex in the grave? They did say a main cast member in an interview right?

 

WM said it was a "prominent" character.

They are telegraphing the shit out of Quentin being the one in the grave tonight.

Edited November 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Die Quentin, DIE.

 

Makeup on LL is too heavy, and don't love Felicity's hair.

[catrox14]

Laurel, stop touching Diggle LOL.

 

that's just bullshit that they are still making Sara's resurrection about Laurel FFS.

 

ArGHHHH

[jay741982]

Kudos to the people who called laurel giving Diggle The pep talk SMH

[AyChihuahua]

Don't kill second-in-command guy.  He's the only decent actor in the flashbacks.

 

Oh, he's whipping him!  Obviously was going to happen in the flashbacks.

 

STILL DON'T CARE.

 

See, weird super-abrupt cuts.

Edited November 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

You know, Oliver whipping that guy makes Oliver's willingness to accept a branding  by Gossip Ghul a lot more sense. Like I can head!canon that it was part of his atonement for doing that to that guy. Too bad we didn't that tidbit last season. Oh well

 

Really not digging the camera work in this episode.

Edited November 19, 2015 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

Cool beans, Thea can't be de-lifed!

You know, Oliver whipping that guy makes Oliver's willingness to accept a branding  by Gossip Ghul a lot more sense. Like I can head!canon that it was part of his atonement for doing that to that guy. Too bad we didn't that tidbit last season. Oh well

 

Really not digging the camera work in this episode.

Camera work sucks.  Bam Bam's eyes are bigger than his technical/artistic ability.

[apinknightmare]

So, did we just learn that people who have been dipped in the LP can suck the life out of other people have been dunked in the LP? I got distracted.

 

Is the Starling Bay a giant LP and that's why DD wants it left alone? LMAO

Edited November 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

It seems that way. Okay can someone go ahead and kill Laurel so she can be LP'd and then Sara can come back and suck Laurel's life out of her. 

[AyChihuahua]

So, did we just learn that people who have been dipped in the LP can suck the life out of other people have been dunked in the LP? I got distracted.

 

Is the Starling Bay a giant LP and that's why DD wants it left alone? LMAO

Something like that.  Probably: "I am rubber, you are evil; whatever you say, bounces off me and evils on you."

 

Routh looks old in this episode.  Poppy could be Oliver's mother.

 

God forgive me, I'm liking Malcolm in this episode.

Edited November 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Guys.

 

It's happening.

 

 

Things take a horrible turn when Damien Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) retaliates in a brutal manner at Oliver’s mayoral holiday party.

[NumberCruncher]

Yep, Felicity is gonna end up in a dire condition.  I'm not sure I'm loving it because hurting Felicity is worse than kicking a puppy, but Oliver will end up opening a giant can of whoop-ass as a result and I'm always here for angry Oliver.

[AyChihuahua]

Guys.

 

It's happening.

They CANNOT show her being beaten up.  I absolutely could not handle that, at all.  Like I mean I would stop watching.  I hated it when Laurel was beaten up, and I hate her and mostly didn't watch her scenes.

[Guest]

Yasssss! As Felicity getting injured appears to be happening, I better have TEARS from Oliver. I want him to be a goddamn mess. 

[Tallis]

Oliver really really needs to stop throwing parties. It always ends badly.

[GirlvsTV]

I don't want Felicity to get hurt/injured/kidnapped or anything else. I love Felicity too much. I actually never watched the Thea/RAG fight last season. I just didn't need to see a character I like put through that.

[Guest]

Yep, Felicity is gonna end up in a dire condition.  I'm not sure I'm loving it because hurting Felicity is worse than kicking a puppy, but Oliver will end up opening a giant can of whoop-ass as a result and I'm always here for angry Oliver.

 

Just going by the BTS video SA posted on Facebook where GA electrocutes someone…you could really see how angry he was. That's what I'm looking forward to. I want tears and anger and rage and emotion, just to show much he needs Felicity.

[NumberCruncher]

I guess on the bright side, Felicity fighting for her life is a HUGE red herring and bodes well in terms of the grave not being hers. This show is so predictable.

[AyChihuahua]

Just going by the BTS video SA posted on Facebook where GA electrocutes someone…you could really see how angry he was. That's what I'm looking forward to. I want tears and anger and rage and emotion, just to show much he needs Felicity.

I get that, and I don't disagree, but I cannot have her beaten up.  I can't take women being punished to control a man.  It needs to be like DD takes her and then there's a car crash or something.  NO BEATING UP FELICITY.  I can't take realistic violence against women or kids or animals or old people.  

 

TBC, it's different if it's Sara or Nyssa or maybe Laurel in an actual fight scene between equals.  (Laurel doesn't count, because she's no one's equal except maybe a sickly puppy.)  But that's not "beating up."  

Edited November 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

I get that, and I don't disagree, but I cannot have her beaten up.  I can't take women being punished to control a man.  It needs to be like DD takes her and then there's a car crash or something.  NO BEATING UP FELICITY.  I can't take realistic violence against women or kids or animals or old people.  

 

TBC, it's different if it's Sara or Nyssa or maybe Laurel in an actual fight scene between equals.  (Laurel doesn't count, because she's no one's equal except maybe a sickly puppy.)  But that's not "beating up."  

 

I think she's going to be more than beaten up. I'm not sure how it's going to happen though. 

[dtissagirl]

I think DD is gonna give Felicity the drug.

[AyChihuahua]

I think DD is gonna give Felicity the drug.

And then she's in the hospital, or then she's evil?

 

Also, you are all evil, wanting bad things to happen to Felicity.

[Guest]

I think DD is gonna give Felicity the drug.

 

Hmm. I did have that thought tonight. Not sure how I feel about that tbh.

[Morrigan2575]

That would make Felicity the betrayal?

[dtissagirl]

I'm not too keen on the idea of them physically harming Felicity to make Oliver hulksmash everything, so my dream scenario would be Felicity returns post-kidnapping sorta okay, but PSYCH! she's under the drug's influence and is now a sleeper agent for DD. She gets triggered and does something shady, so they decide to keep her heavily sedated while someone [Curtis] figures out how to get the drug out of her system.

But I know that's an unlikely scenario.

Edited November 19, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I'm not too keen on the idea of them physically harming Felicity to make Oliver hulksmash everything, so my dream scenario would be Felicity returns post-kidnapping sorta okay, but PSYCH! she's under the drug's influence and is now a sleeper agent for DD. She gets triggered and does something shady, so they decide to keep her heavily sedated while someone [Curtis] figures out how to get the drug out of her system.

But I know that's an unlikely scenario.

I personally would rather have post-kidnapping car crash with unintentional injuries than mind control, but I HATED the idea of mind control on Oliver last season, so I may just hate mind control stories.  BUT NO BEATING UP ON FELICITY.  And to be fair, they've mostly not done a lot of violence against vulnerable persons on this show, so I don't think they'll go there with Felicity.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not too keen on the idea of them physically harming Felicity to make Oliver hulksmash everything, so my dream scenario would be Felicity returns post-kidnapping sorta okay, but PSYCH! she's under the drug's influence and is now a sleeper agent for DD. She gets triggered and does something shady, so they decide to keep her heavily sedated while someone [Curtis] figures out how to get the drug out of her system.

But I know that's an unlikely scenario.

Me neither, it's like Diet Fridging and it makes her injury all about Oliver's man pain. No thanks! However, I don't think my vote counts so she'll probably get hurt because the show was always going to damsel her at some point this season.

I had mentioned in the episode thread that I thought DDs threat to Lance wasn't a Lance Death Anvil but, a foreshadowing of Laurel being controlled. Give Laurel the pill, turn her against her father and use her as leverage.

I'm of 2 minds on this, on the one hand it would give Laurel an actual story which would suck up screentime (bad for me). On the other hand it could set up her redemption via death (which is good for me).

If Felicity is given the pill and is controlled by DD it could totally be an excellent storyline to have her "betray" the team. It would also cause stupid manufactured angst between Olicity which I don't want. However, it could actually be an interesting character storyline and relationship storyline, if done right

Edited November 19, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

You know, they've made a point of having the camera focus on Felicity as Oliver gives his speeches. Once as GA and then twice when he's trying to be Mayor. And she's always looking on so proud. Now I wonder if Oliver will be making a little speech at his holiday party and they'll cut to where Felicity should be but dun dun dun. She's dragged somewhere being hurt instead. All my feels.

[dtissagirl]

I didn't think of Laurel being the one drugged, but yeah, that would give her a long-term storyline, and put her 2/3rds into the grave. Otoh, the thought of watching KC performing any of this is the stuff of NIGHTMARES.

Since this is pure spec, I think if Felicity got drugged and betrayd the team, 1. Oliver couldn't even begin to be mad at her after PRETENDING to be mind-controlled last year, and 2. It would be a 1-2 episodes max storyline. Done by 411.

Edited November 19, 2015 by dtissagirl

[lemotomato]

I'm firmly against mind control on Felicity (or Laurel). I'd rather have Felicity get seriously hurt/damseled than have her agency taken away and have her forced to betray the team against her will. I thought it was a cheap way to make Oliver betray the team last season when we thought he was brainwashed and I still hate the idea.

[apinknightmare]

Where is this betrayal talk coming from? I don't remember.

[AyChihuahua]

 

You know, they've made a point of having the camera focus on Felicity as Oliver gives his speeches. Once as GA and then twice when he's trying to be Mayor. And she's always looking on so proud. Now I wonder if Oliver will be making a little speech at his holiday party and they'll cut to where Felicity should be but dun dun dun. She's dragged somewhere being hurt instead. All my feels.

See, evil.

[dtissagirl]

I don't particularly enjoy mind control stories, but if the villain has a mind-controlling drug to make minions, I end up expecting it to be used on one of Our Heroes at some point. Chekhov's butt monkey drug.

[Morrigan2575]

I didn't think of Laurel being the one drugged, but yeah, that would give her a long-term storyline, and put her 2/3rds into the grave. Otoh, the thought of watching KC performing any of this is the stuff of NIGHTMARES.

Since this is pure spec, I think if Felicity got drugged and betrayd the team, 1. Oliver couldn't even begin to be mad at her after PRETENDING to be mind-controlled last year, and 2. It would be a 1-2 episodes max storyline. Done by 411.

The one problem I have with anyone inside TA getting drugged is how do they work around DD figuring out Oliver is GA or using the drugged member to spy/provide info? Unless the drug just makes you compliant so you obey orders without question but doesn't force you to spill secrets?

Oh wait what if Thea is the betrayal? Maybe she makes a deal with DD to help cure/curb the bloodlust?

Where is this betrayal talk coming from? I don't remember

One of the WM spoilers from awhile back. I'll see if I can find it.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

I didn't think of Laurel being the one drugged, but yeah, that would give her a long-term storyline, and put her 2/3rds into the grave. Otoh, the thought of watching KC performing any of this is the stuff of NIGHTMARES.

Since this is pure spec, I think if Felicity got drugged and betrayd the team, 1. Oliver couldn't even begin to be mad at her after PRETENDING to be mind-controlled last year, and 2. It would be a 1-2 episodes max storyline. Done by 411.

 

I actually think it's the one thing KC could do. I still maintain that she would have made a better villain than the hero she's supposed to be. And with her frown-y face and folded arms, they won't even know she's being mind controlled. She'll just be like her usual self. 

 

Saying that, I don't think Laurel has a storyline this year. She'll just kind of slide in and out of everyone else's.

[jay741982]

I'm not too keen on the idea of them physically harming Felicity to make Oliver hulksmash everything, so my dream scenario would be Felicity returns post-kidnapping sorta okay, but PSYCH! she's under the drug's influence and is now a sleeper agent for DD. She gets triggered and does something shady, so they decide to keep her heavily sedated while someone [Curtis] figures out how to get the drug out of her system.

But I know that's an unlikely scenario.

I DO NOT WANT Felicity under Mind control at all. I'd rather she'd be seriously Hurt .

[jay741982]

I follow EK(Curtis) on Twitter and he told someone when asked about Mid season finale that our Jaws would be on the floor and it's a cliffhanger. I'm calling it: end of the episode Felicity gets shot or stabbed. She's lying in Oliver's arms Tears streaming down his face as he screams for Help END EPISODE! Bonus Brutality is Dig hurt badly as well or Missing

[Guest]

I could see them injuring both Felicity and Diggle simply because they're highlighting how much Oliver has come to depend on the two of them, how much they've become his family. Even though we're not seeing as much OTA as we used to, there are still scenes with the three of them that feel like they're the heart of everything. Like in 406 and in 407, O/F/D were just talking things out. That's who Oliver relies on and talks to the most. So removing his support network might result in Oliver going on a rampage in 410.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Guest

[foreverevolving]

What if the person who is potentially getting mind controlled is Curtis?

[hogwash]

So, I'm guessing Oliver's gonna relapse hard after whatever happens to Felicity then spend the rest of season getting back on the path of angels/not darkness.

 

I'm probably forgetting stuff but nearly all the times Felicity has been personally in danger could be tied to something she did or said (Helena, Dollmaker, Vertigo). Based on Ray's big mouth in 406, I'm guessing (hoping) they stick to that. 

[kismet]

I'm okay with FS being hurt. Her life, her choice. I just don't want to see it. SO long as it is off-screen I think I will be okay with it. Also it will probably be a run-of-the-mill kidnapping, so I can't imagine anything too serious. I definitely do not want her raped though, I am adamantly against that plot.

 

I’m not really for the mind-control drug being used. I think they did that last year with OQ & TQ, and they can tell that story with Andy. It just seems redundant to do it with FS or even LL.

 

I do wonder though if in the winter finale will put both Dig & FS in mortal danger. Perhaps he drives FS home earlier from the dinner and they both go missing with a bloody town car left behind. This way we will be speculating all winter break which one is in the hospital bed. Since we know someone is in the hospital.

[BkWurm1]

Unrelated side note - I'm watching a show where the main actress had a 3rd trimester miscarriage and she is super pregnant in the show, and I can no longer separate the actress from the character and can barely watch anymore. I feel horrible for the actress every time she appears and have no idea how they're going to resolve the story line since anyway they play it will seem cruel to the actress. Sorry, talk of miscarriages brings this to mind.

 

Reminds me of something that happened long time ago on Married with Children.  Katie Segal, the lead actress that played the wife got pregnant in real life and they wrote it in the show and then she lost the baby.  They immediately wrote off the entire storyline, one that had been building for months, called it all a bad dream and just moved forward.  Has to be about the kindest thing I've ever heard done on a television show. 

 

 

They CANNOT show her being beaten up.  I absolutely could not handle that, at all.  Like I mean I would stop watching.  I hated it when Laurel was beaten up, and I hate her and mostly didn't watch her scenes.

Would they show her getting hurt or just show her getting kidnapped and Oliver's "NOOOOO!" face, cut to credits.  Then they find and rescue her when the hiatus resumes and she's just injured.  That way no need to see her get hurt. 

 

 

 

I don't particularly enjoy mind control stories, but if the villain has a mind-controlling drug to make minions, I end up expecting it to be used on one of Our Heroes at some point. Chekhov's butt monkey drug.

This is my concern as well but can't we just say that Felicity is already too busy with TA and Oliver and Palmer Tech and Curtis and her mom being in town to add being a sleeper agent to her to do list? Pretty please?

 

I HATE the idea of mind control if only because it means the whole time she is under mind control, I get ZERO enjoyment out of any "moments" be it Olicity, team stuff, business stuff, crossovers, even jokes.  Nothing would be real anymore from her.   It would ruin the show for me. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by BkWurm1

[calliope1975]

Reminds me of something that happened long time ago on Married with Children.  Katie Segal, the lead actress that played the wife got pregnant in real life and they wrote it in the show and then she lost the baby.  They immediately wrote off the entire storyline, one that had been building for months, called it all a bad dream and just moved forward.  Has to be about the kindest thing I've ever heard done on a television show. 

 

I remember that, and I hope that's what they do here as well. I'm totally willing to suspend my disbelief because I really like the character and I'd rather the actress not have to play a child dying or having a newborn story. I suppose I'll find out next season what they decide to do. 

 

I'm not a fan of drugged, sleeper agent Felicity, but I do agree these magic pills will probably pop up again. Do they have to be taken willingly? I'd be popping these things into the water supply if I was DD. And really - what's his beef with Starling City? I'm going to need an end goal here that makes some sort of sense. 

[kismet]

Drugs in the water system that controls people has been done before on multiple shows, ALIAS is the one that's coming to mind now. I hope the writers are more original. Plus it again feels very similar to the Alpha/Omega needing to spread & inoculation required.

 

I hope they resolve the mind-controlling drugs when they tie up the Andy plot/arc.

Edited November 19, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

Drugs in the water system that controls people has been done before on multiple shows, ALIAS is the one that's coming to mind now. I hope the writers are more original. Plus it again feels very similar to the Alpha/Omega needing to spread & inoculation required.

 

I hope they resolve the mind-controlling drugs when they tie up the Andy plot/arc.

Well, DD does have an inordinate interest in not cleaning up Starling Bay.  Maybe the water system will come into play somehow still. 

[kismet]

Well, DD does have an inordinate interest in not cleaning up Starling Bay.  Maybe the water system will come into play somehow still. 

I think it might too... I'm just over it coming into the drinking supply. I can't think of a decent reason he's so against the bay, unless perhaps the bay is where the docks are and therefore a good place to have illegal business. I know criminals don't appreciate when you clean up the area where they drop the bodies, because it makes it harder to drop the bodies there. A cleaner bay may lead to more people come down for casual fun, which would hamper the criminal activity. But I don't care, so long as the writers are actually creative and its not as dumb as last years virus that had scientific properties that changed for plot within the same episode.

[bijoux]

DD's got to infiltrate the lair in the winter finale, not just crash the party upstairs.