Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tarotx]

I've looked there. I just can't find it. I obviously suck :p

Twitter says it's on torrent.

[foreverevolving]

Isn't this the first time an Arrow episode got leaked?

 

to try and find it and watch it, or not to.

has anyone watched it and can relate to the quality and how decent the cuts are?

 

I bet SA is going crazy about this.. or will once he finds out.

[dtissagirl]

I'm pressing play right now, will report back with, uh, highlights.

[Starfish35]

Traveller, can you elaborate on this?

04. Big development for Laurel and Oliver's friendship.

[apinknightmare]

Matt Mitovich from TV Line is on Twitter chatting about the ep. He said that the ep addresses "lingering issues" with Laurel.

[Guest]

Wait, we have to accept Laurel lying because they all lied too? LMAO. When will this end?

Matt Mitovich from TV Line is on Twitter chatting about the ep. He said that the ep addresses "lingering issues" with Laurel.

 

WM did say that this brings closure for Laurel about the whole Sara/Oliver mess, didn't she? I'm guessing it's that. I kind of thought she was well over it but whatever. 

[apinknightmare]

Wait, we have to accept Laurel lying because they all lied too? LMAO. When will this end?

It seems like maybe that's addressed in this ep based on some stuff I've seen on Twitter. Lying to someone because you're angry that they lied is stupid whoever does it. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out though, because Laurel's reasoning for not telling Oliver at least was because she didn't want his judgment. And that was an ep after she chastised Digg not to keep secrets, LOL.

Wait, we have to accept Laurel lying because they all lied too? LMAO. When will this end?

WM did say that this brings closure for Laurel about the whole Sara/Oliver mess, didn't she? I'm guessing it's that. I kind of thought she was well over it but whatever.

He made it seem like it was character issues (like, issues that the audience might have had), not her personal issues. But maybe it's both?

[Belinea]

WM did say that this brings closure for Laurel about the whole Sara/Oliver mess, didn't she? I'm guessing it's that. I kind of thought she was well over it but whatever. 

 

I know it is painful and all but after 4 seasons I kind of don't have the patience to see Laurel once again deal with this. I know what they did was bad but wasn't the episode in 2x14 meant to do the job of Laurel seeing the light? It is not that I don't understand why she is still angry but I just don't want to see it anymore. Furthermore at this point Sara and Oliver really did pay the price for their actions. 

[Traveller]

Traveller, can you elaborate on this?

I can say that going forward there will be a lot of warmth in their friendship where in the past we have seen a lot of coldness and hostility.

[Starfish35]

Thanks.

[Chaser]

From everything I'm getting the episode is character rehab for Laurel.

 

I can say that going forward there will be a lot of warmth in their friendship where in the past we have seen a lot of coldness and hostility.

 

I don't get this. Are they jokey and BFFy at the end of the episode? Or did they just clear the air and decide to be better friends?

[foreverevolving]

I'm pressing play right now, will report back with, uh, highlights.

Only found it as a torrent link, I will wait until either someone is awesome enough to upload it to a stream or for Wednesday-whichever comes first. I don't do Torrents.

Edited October 31, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Sakura12]

The quality was actually pretty good.

 

Constantine made it to Grand Central Island too

 

Yes, everyone forgave Laurel because everyone always lies. Now everyone is best friends. That is so stupid and KC kept the same facial expression in all of her scenes, except she did overact that saving Sara's soul one. 

 

They did keep

Sara's kills to thugs and rapists. So I choose to take that as even soulless Sara goes after men that hurt women. And it's not just because she likes hitting people like the other one.

 

I also loved seeing Sara

kick Laurel's ass so easily and take her weapon from her all in about 2 seconds.

[Belinea]

Yes, everyone forgave Laurel because everyone always lies. Now everyone is best friends. That is so stupid and KC kept the same facial expression in all of her scenes, except she did overact that saving Sara's soul one. 

Sometimes the show is just so aggravating. Hopefully now that we spent all this time with her, the writers will have time to focus on Diggle and Felicity.

[foreverevolving]

The quality was actually pretty good.

 

Constantine made it to Grand Central Island too

 

Yes, everyone forgave Laurel because everyone always lies. Now everyone is best friends. That is so stupid and KC kept the same facial expression in all of her scenes, except she did overact that saving Sara's soul one. 

 

They did keep

Sara's kills to thugs and rapists. So I choose to take that as even soulless Sara goes after men that hurt women. And it's not just because she likes hitting people like the other one.

 

I also loved seeing Sara

kick Laurel's ass so easily and take her weapon from her all in about 2 seconds.

Ugh and lol of course she would!

[Traveller]

From everything I'm getting the episode is character rehab for Laurel.

 

 

I don't get this. Are they jokey and BFFy at the end of the episode? Or did they just clear the air and decide to be better friends?

i won't be surprised if they start joking around.

[lexicon]

I can say that going forward there will be a lot of warmth in their friendship where in the past we have seen a lot of coldness and hostility.

 

Did it make sense to you?

 

This shift in attitude, considering everything that happened in the episode and the past years?

[Traveller]

Did it make sense to you?

 

This shift in attitude, considering everything that happened in the episode and the past years?

I think Thea was a big supporter of Laurel throughout this episode and made some reasonable arguments on behalf of Laurel. I am O.K with this development because the coldness and hostility between Laurel and Oliver was a drag on the previous episodes. So, if they change that dynamic for the better I guess I would be okay with it. But anyways, I was more interested in Sara and don't care about laurel anyway. Whether it makes sense or not would depend on our personal biases.

[Sakura12]

It did not make sense to me. Because no one is caring about what it did Sara and to Thea. They were the ones truly hurt by everything. Everyone else is clapping each other on the backs with a job well done and ignoring the two that need the help. 

 

Sara even in a soulless state still goes after bad men. That's what I took out of it. She took time out of her Thea hunt to kill rapists. It was also funny that

Sara doesn't remember anything except  how to speak Arabic. That's the only language she was speaking the whole episode.

 

Thea

offered her life to save Sara's soul. So we have everyone else willing to make sacrifices and Laurel walks around doing nothing. I would like this better if they actually had Laurel pay for her mistake, instead of just being forgiven in the end. Yes, they saved Sara's soul (which was a laughable scene that I hope looks better after post) but at what cost to Sara and Thea. Are they just going gloss over that? I know they are keeping the blood lust but that's not all that happened between them.

 

I did like Constantine in this he fit in well without taking over.  I wouldn't mind seeing him again. The

island scenes were much more watchable with him. And it they were short.

 

While I like Curtis, I don't understand why he's needed. It seems like Felicity could be doing everything she asks him do. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

I can say that going forward there will be a lot of warmth in their friendship where in the past we have seen a lot of coldness and hostility.

I'll believe that when I see it onscreen, with SA and KC actually selling anything other than mutual disdain.

[Sakura12]

I think they did sell the warmth, but it was still devoid of any friendship chemistry. It was like two actors resigned to the fact they have to work together making a truce. 

 

There was some nice

Diggle and Quentin scenes. I like when they change up the pairings. Some Andy stuff was revealed and Diggle teared up.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[lemotomato]

Was there any reason given for why Oliver's the one that goes with Laurel to get Sara's soul back rather than Lance?

[AyChihuahua]

They're doing what they always do, which is lampshade the problem and then forget it.  The problem is that if KC cannot sell warmth, ESPECIALLY with SA.  She basically hasn't moved her face from some form of anger more than a dozen times in the last 2+ seasons of the show.  Hopefully this covers the annual Laurel episodes and she can stay in the background from now on.

 

Also, I thought Laurel was soooo important for LoT.  But, as we suspected, it was just bringing back Sara.  So she brought back the actual important person.

 

This show is so dumb.

[Belinea]

They're doing what they always do, which is lampshade the problem and then forget it.  The problem is that if KC cannot sell warmth, ESPECIALLY with SA.  

Well to be fair, you cannot sell chemistry if there isn't any but it is sad to think that after 4 season the writers/producers still think that it will magically appear. 

[Chaser]

I'm pressing play right now, will report back with, uh, highlights.

Really curious about your take on it.

 

What I'm seeing on twitter is mostly what you would expect. If you like Laurel or don't dislike her, it's a good episode. If you don't like her, there is some eye-rolling involved.

 

But Constantine is also getting a lot of positives and so are Diggle and Lance.

Edited October 31, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[HighHopes]

According to Twitter,

one of Oliver's tattoos is because of Constantine. Which is just a really dumb idea. The audience has spent 3 years wondering about Oliver's tattoos and we find out one is because of this character/storyline that they never had plans on introducing? This combined with the short hair in the flashbacks and the dragon tattoo being gone now, makes me think they really don't care about the flashbacks or continuity anymore. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by HighHopes

[Belinea]

Just read that 4x06 apparently also leaked. Can anyone confirm that?

 

ETA: Apparently not true...

Edited October 31, 2015 by Belinea

[dtissagirl]

Scene by scene description, this is probably very wonky, bc I was typing as I watched:

Cold open is Sara saving a woman from two guys. She kills the bad guys, then attacks the woman, and speaks Arabic [?]

Constantine is in the flashbacks!

First scene with Parker Young -- his character Alex is the political advisor hired by Thea, and his first advice to Oliver is to distance himself from Laurel, because voters will remember the Gambit/cheating scandal.

Quentin asks Laurel where is Sara, because the reports of the woman attacking people are spreading. She's been looking for her, but hasn't told anyone. She's afraid Oliver will see Sara like Quentin did, "like a thing".

Felicity asks Curtis to analyze Palmer's recording, she thinks that there are weird artifacts on the distortion noise.

DD asks Quentin to plug a flash drive on a server farm outside of the city. Jokes about how Quentin now has two daughters he can threaten.

Oliver and Thea sparring. Thea recaps the entirety of Laurel's connection to her and Oliver, because Oliver is considering Alex's advice.

"This is your overlord Felicity Smoak" on the PA interrupts them. Police scanner reporting the woman attacking people.

Sara is going after women who look like Thea. Laurel gets there first. Tries to immobilize Sara, loses her tonfa instead. Oliver arrows the tonfa, goes all sad voice "Sara". Sara runs away.

Oliver dresses Laurel down.

Flashback. Constantine escapes from handcuffs using a spell, punches Conklin, steal his gun and takes Oliver hostage.

Quentin arrives at the Arrow lair. Good scene with Oliver, says Laurel is "consistent" with her lying TROLOLOLOLOL, that kind of shit this show likes to do by lampashing their problems in dialog.

Quentin is there so Felicity can analyze DD's flash drive. It's an evil computer virus. Quentin doesn't want Laurel involved in this, so --

Lance and Diggle team up! Diggle is pissed Quentin is working with HIVE, but accepts Quentin's explanation. DD had vigilance on Laurel 24/7.

Oliver/Felicty scene. They talk about Sara, and Palmer, and all the people they lost in their lives. It's a great scene. Then they figure out the women Sara is attacking look like Thea.

Thea doesn't pick up her phone bc she doesn't want more of Oliver's judge,emt, Sara breaks into Laurel's place and attacks her. They fight, Thea manages to escape, Sara persues, but Thea hides -- after tumbling down the stairs, it's brutal.

Hospital. Oliver and Felicity are with Thea. Thea explains the bloodlust, how it works, and that she killed the two minions in NP.

Laurel arrives. She and Oliver talk. Oliver has good points, Laurel makes it all about herself, but her face actually moves and emotes and shit.

Flashback. Constantine explains bad guys should not be on the island, does a spell and suddenly THERE'S A HATCH, OMG it's Lost.

Dig and Lance at the server farm. The virus is erasing files on *people*.

Hospital. Laurel apologizes to Thea. Thea explains why Sara is driven to kill her.

Server farm. Dig sees a file on his brother being deleted. Alarm sounds, Dig wants to stay and figure out what he just saw. Lance knocks him down and tells the security guys who show up he was tracking a "hacker" there, and they get out.

Hospital. Sara is in Thea's room. Laurel is on the corridor outside, Oliver arrives. Intercut -- Thea tells Sara it's okay, she wants Sara to kill her. Sara attacks Thea, Oliver hears it, and they enter the room. Sara throws Thea across the room and escapes through the window.

Arrow lair, everyone is there on the conference table. They figure out the pit brought Sara's body back, but not her soul. They also figure out she can track Thea, so Thea wants to be bait. Oliver objects, but Thea says he's not the team leader anymore, and looks over to Diggle, who says they'll have Thea's back.

Flashback. Underground. Constantine explains the island is ~mystical. He's looking for a magical artifact, that is booby trapped, and Oliver saves him from getting shish kabobed by spears.

DD and Lance. Lance asks about Andy, DD explains HIVE had him killed because he was meddlesome? His monologuing confused me also I'm bored.

Team Arrow setting a trap for Sara at Verdant. Sara shows up. Laurel and and Oliver fight her. Oliver manages to tranq Sara, but now Laurel has a gun and wants to put her down. Oliver doesn't let her.

Oliver calls Constantine.

Constantine expositions on who he is and what he does to Team Arrow. Felicity: "I'm just glad this person from Oliver's past is not another gorgeous woman".

Lance arrives.

THE PEAKCOCK FEATHER IS A JOKE, IT MEANS NOTHING, TROLOLOLOL.

It's Oliver and Laurel going on the mind trip because Oliver volunteers them both. "Laurel, do you trust me? Trust me when I tell you this will work." They hold hands over Sara's body, Constantine does his thing.

Nanda Parbat mind trick. They hear Sara screaming, Laurel runs over, but it's a trick. Constantine uses his lighter as a compass, it's kinda neat.

Sara is in the pit, being guarded by zombie LoAs. The pit is not letting Sara go,but Laurel and Oliver together manage to pull her. These scenes are super duper quick and rushed as fuck.

Back to present time. Everyone's a bit woozy. Laurel hugs Quentin, Oliver hugs Felicity.

Sara wakes up. Lance family hug.

Oliver takes Constantine to the elevator. He's heard of DD. His advice: "leave town while you still can." Dun dun dun.

Thea calls Constantine "yummy", Oliver is grossed out, hahaha. Thea and Oliver talk about keeping secrets, and this scene is really really lovely.

Flashback. Constantine warns Oliver about the dangers of the island, offers a ride out, but Oliver wants to stay and help the prisoners. Constantine calls him a hero. AND THEN HE DOES A SPELL, that removes a tattoo on his arm and transfers it to Oliver's abs! Hello Chinese tattoo! Constantine says it's insurance, and Oliver will know when to use it.

Present time, election offices. Oliver's getting ready for an interview. Laurel arrives, Oliver tells Alex he's not gonna take his advice. She's a friend.

Laurel thanks Oliver, and Oliver says he wants to be a better friend to her, they hug. It's actually pretty sweet. No Consequences Laurel mode is FULL ON.

Quentin goes visit Diggle. He has a top secret file on Andy that DD gave him, and it's NOT GOOD. But I didn't try to read the close up, so no idea what exactly Andy was involved into.

QC. Curtis has drunk about 20 Red Bulls [loool], and he cracked Palmer's message. "What you need to know is: I'm alive, and I'm in trouble"

End credits.

Edited October 31, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

Well to be fair, you cannot sell chemistry if there isn't any but it is sad to think that after 4 season the writers/producers still think that it will magically appear. 

I'm not even talking about chemistry, though, I'm talking about any apparent emotion other than rage or haughty disdain.

[AyChihuahua]

Scene by scene description, this is probably very wonky, bc I was typing as I watched:

First scene with Parker Young -- his character Alex is the political advisor hired by Thea, and his first advice to Oliver is to distance himself from Laurel, because voters will remember the Gambit/cheating scandal.

...

Sara is in the pit, being guarded by zombie LoAs. The pit is not letting Sara go,but Laurel and Oliver together manage to pull her. These scenes are super duper quick and rushed as fuck.

...

Laurel thanks Oliver, and Oliver says he wants to be a better friend to her, they hug. It's actually pretty sweet. No Consequences Laurel mode is FULL ON.

So basically,

Sara's soul wasn't in hell UNTIL Laurel stuck her in the Pit?  

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS IMPROVE LAUREL?

 

I don't swear that often, but Oh my FUCKING God.  She did this awful, reckless, unbearably stupid thing, didn't tell anyone,

didn't even tell anyone when Sara escaped, Sara nearly kills Thea while escaped, does kill other people, and after all that shit LAUREL AND OLIVER ARE NOW BETTER FRIENDS?

 

I'm thisclose to quitting this fucking show for another season.

[apinknightmare]

So basically,

Sara's soul wasn't in hell UNTIL Laurel stuck her in the Pit?  

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS IMPROVE LAUREL?

 

 

This actually really surprises me -

I thought for sure that we'd find out that Sara was already in hell to hammer home that Laurel was in the right. I wonder if we'll find out in a later ep that she was in a bad place anyway, and Laurel saved her from it, or if Laurel just basically ripped her from a peaceful eternity, LOL.

[looptab]

I watched it :) I didn't hate it, I believe it's mostly due to my new philosophy of "If  I don't like it, it didn't happen", ahha.

The hallway scene was kinda nice, the last one between Oliver /Laurel made me roll my eyes so hard. The resurrection was ridiculous. Yay to Constantine, Diggle/Lance, Thea, Thea/Oliver, Oliver/Felicity, Felicity/Curtis.LOL because during an O/L scene there's the Ray/Felicity theme (don't know if that's temporary, though).

 I have to say KC looked extremely pretty in this episode.

 

Now..do  you think this leak was on purpose?

Edited October 31, 2015 by looptab

[Chaser]

Would you say this episode made Laurel look less psycho?

I feel like we need a special thread for leaked episodes.

 

 

 

Scene by scene description, this is probably very wonky, bc I was typing as I watched:

Cold open is Sara saving a woman from two guys. She kills the bad guys, then attacks the woman, and speaks Arabic [?]

Constantine is in the flashbacks!

First scene with Parker Young -- his character Alex is the political advisor hired by Thea, and his first advice to Oliver is to distance himself from Laurel, because voters will remember the Gambit/cheating scandal.

Quentin asks Laurel where is Sara, because the reports of the woman attacking people are spreading. She's been looking for her, but hasn't told anyone. She's afraid Oliver will see Sara like Quentin did, "like a thing".

Felicity asks Curtis to analyze Palmer's recording, she thinks that there are weird artifacts on the distortion noise.

DD asks Quentin to plug a flash drive on a server farm outside of the city. Jokes about how Quentin now has two daughters he can threaten.

Oliver and Thea sparring. Thea recaps the entirety of Laurel's connection to her and Oliver, because Oliver is considering Alex's advice.

"This is your overlord Felicity Smoak" on the PA interrupts them. Police scanner reporting the woman attacking people.

Sara is going after women who look like Thea. Laurel gets there first. Tries to immobilize Sara, loses her tonfa instead. Oliver arrows the tonfa, goes all sad voice "Sara". Sara runs away.

Oliver dresses Laurel down.

Flashback. Constantine escapes from handcuffs using a spell, punches Conklin, steal his gun and takes Oliver hostage.

Quentin arrives at the Arrow lair. Good scene with Oliver, says Laurel is "consistent" with her lying TROLOLOLOLOL, that kind of shit this show likes to do by lampashing their problems in dialog.

Quentin is there so Felicity can analyze DD's flash drive. It's an evil computer virus. Quentin doesn't want Laurel involved in this, so --

Lance and Diggle team up! Diggle is pissed Quentin is working with HIVE, but accepts Quentin's explanation. DD had vigilance on Laurel 24/7.

Oliver/Felicty scene. They talk about Sara, and Palmer, and all the people they lost in their lives. It's a great scene. Then they figure out the women Sara is attacking look like Thea.

Thea doesn't pick up her phone bc she doesn't want more of Oliver's judge,emt, Sara breaks into Laurel's place and attacks her. They fight, Thea manages to escape, Sara persues, but Thea hides -- after tumbling down the stairs, it's brutal.

Hospital. Oliver and Felicity are with Thea. Thea explains the bloodlust, how it works, and that she killed the two minions in NP.

Laurel arrives. She and Oliver talk. Oliver has good points, Laurel makes it all about herself, but her face actually moves and emotes and shit.

Flashback. Constantine explains bad guys should not be on the island, does a spell and suddenly THERE'S A HATCHET, OMG it's Lost.

Dig and Lance at the server farm. The virus is erasing files on *people*.

Hospital. Laurel apologizes to Thea. Thea explains why Sara is driven to kill her.

Server farm. Dig sees a file on his brother being deleted. Alarm sounds, Dig wants to stay and figure out what he just saw. Lance knocks him down and tells the security guys who show up he was tracking a "hacker" there, and they get out.

Hospital. Sara is in Thea's room. Laurel is on the corridor outside, Oliver arrives. Intercut -- Thea tells Sara it's okay, she wants Sara to kill her. Sara attacks Thea, Oliver hears it, and they enter the room. Sara throws Thea across the room and escapes through the window.

Arrow lair, everyone is there on the conference table. They figure out the pit brought Sara's body back, but not her soul. They also figure out she can track Thea, so Thea wants to be bait. Oliver objects, but Thea says he's not the team leader anymore, and looks over to Diggle, who says they'll have Thea's back.

Flashback. Underground. Constantine explains the island is ~mystical. He's looking for a magical artifact, that is booby trapped, and Oliver saves him from getting shish kabobed by spears.

DD and Lance. Lance asks about Andy, DD explains HIVE had him killed because he was meddlesome? His monologuing confused me also I'm bored.

Team Arrow setting a trap for Sara at Verdant. Sara shows up. Laurel and and Oliver fight her. Oliver manages to tranq Sara, but now Laurel has a gun and wants to put her down. Oliver doesn't let her.

Oliver calls Constantine.

Constantine expositions on who he is and what he does to Team Arrow. Felicity: "I'm just glad this person from Oliver's past is not another gorgeous woman".

Lance arrives.

THE PEAKCOCK FEATHER IS A JOKE, IT MEANS NOTHING, TROLOLOLOL.

It's Oliver and Laurel going on the mind trip because Oliver volunteers them both. "Laurel, do you trust me? Trust me when I tell you this will work." They hold hands over Sara's body, Constantine does his thing.

Nanda Parbat mind trick. They hear Sara screaming, Laurel runs over, but it's a trick. Constantine uses his lighter as a compass, it's kinda neat.

Sara is in the pit, being guarded by zombie LoAs. The pit is not letting Sara go,but Laurel and Oliver together manage to pull her. These scenes are super duper quick and rushed as fuck.

Back to present time. Everyone's a bit woozy. Laurel hugs Quentin, Oliver hugs Felicity.

Sara wakes up. Lance family hug.

Oliver takes Constantine to the elevator. He's heard of DD. His advice: "leave town while you still can." Dun dun dun.

Thea calls Constantine "yummy", Oliver is grossed out, hahaha. Thea and Oliver talk about keeping secrets, and this scene is really really lovely.

Flashback. Constantine warns Oliver about the dangers of the island, offers a ride out, but Oliver wants to stay and help the prisoners. Constantine calls him a hero. AND THEN HE DOES A SPELL, that removes a tattoo on his arm and transfers it to Oliver's abs! Hello Chinese tattoo! Constantine says it's insurance, and Oliver will know when to use it.

Present time, election offices. Oliver's getting ready for an interview. Laurel arrives, Oliver tells Alex he's not gonna take his advice. She's a friend.

Laurel thanks Oliver, and Oliver says he wants to be a better friend to her, they hug. It's actually pretty sweet. No Consequences Laurel mode is FULL ON.

Quentin goes visit Diggle. He has a top secret file on Andy that DD gave him, and it's NOT GOOD. But I didn't try to read the close up, so no idea what exactly Andy was involved into.

QC. Curtis has drunk about 20 Red Bulls [loool], and he cracked Palmer's message. "What you need to know is: I'm alive, and I'm in trouble"

End credits.

Thanks for the recap.

[dtissagirl]

What I'm seeing on twitter is mostly what you would expect. If you like Laurel or don't dislike her, it's a good episode. If you don't like her, there is some eye-rolling involved.

 

It's very much a character redemption tour episode, yes, but hilariously, the only thing the episode fixed [or attempted to fix?] is Oliver is now gonna be try and be Laurel's friend. Instead of the weird bitter exes who are forced to work together vibe they had until now.

 

That still doesn't give Laurel an actual storyline outside of Sara. AND Quentin asked Oliver and Felicity to not let Laurel know about him working with DD, so the one thing that could give her a narrative is being kept from her.

Edited October 31, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Sakura12]

I forgot I like political strategists because

he told Oliver to distance himself from Laurel

I also wonder if everyone still thinks that Sara died in 2007? 

 

Laurel also made what happened with Sara about herself. Which is not out of character but just really annoying to hear her whine "Did you ever think about what it's doing to me" I don't think she mentioned anything about what it's doing or going to do Sara. Why am I supposed to want a better a relationship with those two if this how they are going about it? I want Sara far away from Laurel and I don't want to see Laurel on LoT. 

 

Also Oliver and Laurel are chosen because they bring out the best in Sara or something. When I think Quentin and Diggle would've better choices if that is their reasoning. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[Belinea]

That still doesn't give Laurel an actual storyline outside of Sara. AND Quentin asked Oliver and Felicity to not let Laurel know about him working with DD, so the one thing that could give her a narrative is being kept from her.

You just know that her storyline will once again be family drama. Also nobody learned anything about the lying and hiding things from one another. 

 

I don't swear that often, but Oh my FUCKING God.  She did this awful, reckless, unbearably stupid thing

Which to be fair, is Laurel in a nutshell. 

 

Also Oliver and Laurel are chosen because they bring out the best in Sara or something. When I think Quentin and Diggle would've better choices if that is their reasoning. 

 

Seems like they found a way to bring Laurel and Oliver closer together no matter how stupid the circumstances. It doesn't have to make sense as long as comic book nerds are also pleased. Now he just has to whip out the Laurel photo again and everything will have come full circle.  (Sorry, I am grumpy)

[Starfish35]

So basically,

Sara's soul wasn't in hell UNTIL Laurel stuck her in the Pit?  

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS IMPROVE LAUREL?

 

I don't swear that often, but Oh my FUCKING God.  She did this awful, reckless, unbearably stupid thing, didn't tell anyone,

didn't even tell anyone when Sara escaped, Sara nearly kills Thea while escaped, does kill other people, and after all that shit LAUREL AND OLIVER ARE NOW BETTER FRIENDS?

 

I'm thisclose to quitting this fucking show for another season.

Oh yeah. I really really really want Laurel to be the one that dies now (no such luck I'm sure).

[looptab]

Would you say this episode made Laurel look less psycho?

I feel like we need a special thread for leaked episodes.

 

No, haha. But for a second she seems to question if she did a good thing bringing Sara back. It's more than one could ask. Also, 

the whole "Laurel didn't know about Thea and the Lazarus Pit" , aka a glaring WRITERS FAIL, is made to look as a personal issue Oliver has with Laurel, which, NO. They brought Oliver down to prop her, which I guess in their book it's better than admitting they just don't know how to fit the character in their stories.

[tv echo]

I also wonder if everyone still thinks that Sara died in 2007? 

 

No. There was that big 'welcome home' party for Sara when she turned up alive (the first time).

Edited October 31, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

This actually really surprises me -

I thought for sure that we'd find out that Sara was already in hell to hammer home that Laurel was in the right. I wonder if we'll find out in a later ep that she was in a bad place anyway, and Laurel saved her from it, or if Laurel just basically ripped her from a peaceful eternity, LOL.

 

There's no obvious mention of hell. or of torment. There are two ~demonic hands holding Sara into the pit, and the LoA zombies they're fighting have glowing eyes, so it probably can be implied?

 

Constantine calls the ritual a "restitution" of the soul. He also says they're going to the "under realm", and that they need to work quick as to not be trapped there for eternity. Laurel mentions the room with the pit is familiar, and Constantine says that's how the human mind sees it. This part of the episode is really insanely quick in this cut.

[Sakura12]

I think they are going in real time. They mention a crazy blond woman that's been killing people that they've been searching for. So Laurel didn't tell anyone for an entire week because she didn't want anyone judgement and let about 7 people die. Granted they were rapists and thugs but she still added more guilt for Sara to deal with. 

 

Then

she was about to put Sara down until Oliver shot Sara with a tranq.

 

Then we also have Oliver telling Laurel about Malcolm making Thea kill people and Laurel going "What, when?". Thea told her that, I guess she wasn't listening like usual. Some friend and mentor she is. 

 

How many people knew about the Sara's alive party though? I don't think the general public knew about it. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Someone on another board brought up a good question. If they couldn't get Constantine, how were they planning on bringing Sara back? Would we have gotten a different story? Was Laurel made to look like a delusional idiot so Constantine would be needed?

No, because they still could have given LL some dignity and a clue in this entire plot line with or without needing Constantine. Nothing she has done since resurrecting the dead has triggered the need for Constantine. All of her delusional idiocy has been directly related to her character and consistent with her emotions over logic, self-absorbed doesn't think about consequences LL way of life. If her defense Teflon LL never has had to face consequences she hasn't wriggled out of with some help from her Dad, OQ/TA or blackmail. So why would s4 be any different?

 

Also, I think they secured Constantine pretty early on in the writing process that they integrated him in the way they wanted to. I think having his character is the reason behind why SL returns soulless. But her return soulless is not a reflection on LL's bad arc & choices. If there had been no Constantine, I think LL still would have resurrected SL in as senseless as fashion as she did, I just think SL might not have needed a seance. Perhaps OQ would have found a special Tea or something. Or more likely, I bet they would have had MM find a LoA priestess to cure SL. If anything Constantine I think diminishes the role of MM in SL's pit recovery, but has no impact on LL's arc or role in it.

[dtissagirl]

Also Oliver and Laurel are chosen because they bring out the best in Sara or something. When I think Quentin and Diggle would've better choices if that is their reasoning. 

 

Sort of? Constantine said he only has mojo to take two people with him. Thea volunteers first, Constantine nopes her because she would probably bring the worst in Sara. And then Oliver volunteers himself and Laurel.

[Starfish35]

Then we also have Oliver telling Laurel about Malcolm making Thea kill people and Laurel going "What, when?". Thea told her that, I guess she wasn't listening like usual. Some friend and mentor she is. 

Are you serious? Do the writers not remember their own show?

[Carrie Ann]

Wait, we have to accept Laurel lying because they all lied too? LMAO. When will this end?

 

This is apparently a worldview shared by the Flarrowverse EPs, because they believed Iris was a hypocrite for being mad at Barry and Joe and Eddie because she "lied" about her feelings about Barry that she wasn't aware she had. Any lie is as bad as another in their view, and you have free rein to lie if someone has ever lied to you in the past! How convenient.

 

Anyway, I was resigned to this "resolution," and maybe it'll even be for the best, because if we "resolve" whatever coldness there is between O/L, then maybe we never have to have any meaningful scenes between them? Ever again? Maybe? Like, what would they have left to ever talk to each other about beyond surface level? I do wish that the overall feeling was of LL apologizing for her mistakes instead of what feels like OQ apologizing for...whatever it is he apparently did wrong this time, but that will never happen.

[HighHopes]

I also wonder if everyone still thinks that Sara died in 2007?

 

 

No. There was that big 'welcome home' party for Sara when she turned up alive (the first time).

Ah but they also buried Sara in her original grave because the world believed she died in 2007. (I believe MG said that in an interview). So who actually knows what the world thinks about Sara being alive/dead? 

[apinknightmare]

Are you serious? Do the writers not remember their own show?

 

I don't think Thea outright mentioned having to kill people in front of or to Laurel, did she? 

 

Although she did wake Laurel up in NP and wanted to leave, before yelling, "I WILL NOT KILL PEOPLE!" in front of Laurel. And there was mention of bloodlust, so I'm guessing Laurel was just completely not curious at all about the goings on around her as per usual, haha.

Edited October 31, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

But hey, this was the very first time in the entire run of the show that I liked the flashbacks better the the present time. JOHN FUCKING CONSTANTINE, Y'ALL.

Edited October 31, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

Matt Mitovich was on Twitter telling viewers are illogical if they don't give Laurel another chance.  Nope.  This is not S1 or S2.  It's S4, it's too late, not to mention even in the big rehab episode she still has NO CONSEQUENCES, except apparently Oliver yells at her for five seconds before they end the episode as BFFs.  Nope.  Ain't happening, and really irritated about the whole thing.  

[looptab]

Didn't Thea say "you were in love with Laurel and Sara"? They do love messing with shippers, haha.