Spoiler Discussion Thread

[NoWayOut]

Oh, Oliver. Dude thinks he's ready for marriage because he's had five months of domestic bliss with Felicity and how easy all of this has been. He probably wasn't thinking about potential threats looming over their heads or the possibility of ever getting sucked back into the crime-fighting lifestyle while he was baking souffles. I want Felicity to find out about the ring and for them to have a discussion with both agreeing to wait until Oliver can find the balance between being Green Arrow/Oliver Queen and whether they can sustain their relationship when times aren't always so good. That said, I am enjoying the hell out of the fact that Oliver Queen wants to marry Felicity Smoak!

[tv echo]

That new S4 trailer - WOW!  I'm stunned.  I didn't think they'd go there with O&F so soon..

 

Like others here, I really hope that the S4 finale circles back around to the first episode (like in S3) so that Oliver's interrupted marriage proposal finally happens in the S4 finale. However, I'm very leery of what the EPs will actually do.   I hate to think that 4x01 might be the pinnacle of O&F's happiness, and that S4 will end with crushed hopes.

 

Didn't Sara/Canary have a motorcycle in S2?  If so, then why would getting a motorcycle be a pivotal moment for Laurel/BC in the first episode? It's got to be something else.

 

Incidentally, I think BR could still be in the early episodes without having to be on set.  Ray's going to be miniature for a few episodes, so they could shoot his face and record his lines away from set, then use special effects to attach them to a mini-figure that interacts with Felicity.

 

Here's my breakdown of the new S4 trailer:

-- Unidentified female voiceover (Waller?): "The world is too small for someone like Oliver Queen to disappear."
-- Scenes: Oliver & Felicity are sitting at a dinner table, while Felicity asks, "So what's the occasion?" Oliver hides engagement ring in souffle. Oliver carries tray with two souffles. Felicity says, "You have visitors."  Thea and Laurel enter their house, and Thea says, "We really need your help. We need the Arrow."
-- Oliver & Felicity are in car returning to the city.  They pass by billboard proclaiming the city's name as Star City in honor of Ray Palmer.
-- Oliver voiceover: "The only things I brought back from the island were pain, suffering and darkness."
-- Nighttime scene with Quentin and police looking at graffiti-painted symbol.  Quentin says, "It means anarchy."
-- Waller faces upside-down hanging flashback Oliver.
-- Oliver says to Felicity, "I don't want to be that type of person anymore." Felicity replies, "Maybe you just need to be a different kind of person." Felicity uncovers glass case containing new GA costume.  Oliver puts on new suit, with bow & arrows.
-- Suited-up Oliver and Diggle go out on the streets.
-- GA confronts DD and shoots arrow.  DD puts up his hand and stops arrow mid-flight, leaving arrow hanging in the air.
-- DD says, "I want to know everything about this Green Arrow.  Where he lives and who he loves."
-- Oliver & Felicity are in bed together, smiling at each other.
-- Felicity says, "Seems like old times."
-- Scenes of GA, Diggle, BC and Speedy out on the streets.
-- Spooky face shot of DD.
-- Oliver voiceover: "The only way I know to fight the darkness is to be darkness."
-- Waller tells flashback Oliver, "Embrace it."
-- BC beats up guy on floor.
-- Speedy on back of BC's motorcycle, says "This is so cool."
-- Felicity shoots machine gun with her eyes closed.
-- Diggle helps GA up from the ground, saying, "You took a bullet for me."

Edited September 12, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

Oh, Oliver. Dude thinks he's ready for marriage because he's had five months of domestic bliss with Felicity and how easy all of this has been. He probably wasn't thinking about potential threats looming over their heads or the possibility of ever getting sucked back into the crime-fighting lifestyle while he was baking souffles. I want Felicity to find out about the ring and for them to have a discussion with both agreeing to wait until Oliver can find the balance between being Green Arrow/Oliver Queen and whether they can sustain their relationship when times aren't always so good. That said, I am enjoying the hell out of the fact that Oliver Queen wants to marry Felicity Smoak!

 

I agree with this. Oliver needs to see if he can keep his relationship going with Felicity when the shit hits the fan. That's when he's always pushed her away before or ran off to brood. If he can find that balance during the bad times and keep her near him then he will be ready to marry her. 

 

Didn't Sara/Canary have a motorcycle in S2?  If so, then why would getting a motorcycle be a pivotal moment for Laurel/BC in the first episode? It's got to be something else.

 

The EP seem to think that giving everything they already gave to Sara to Laurel is an awesome thing. Or they once again mean it's only pivotal for Because Comics fans. For everyone else it will be seen that already with the better version of the Black Canary. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

The thing is that Oliver was ready to give Crime fighting and such up. He doesn't want the Darkness. And it's not a bad thing for Oliver to just completely remove himself from the bad shit that is a trigger for his PTSD. So Oliver was ready. Of course Felicity might not have been ready to answer yes to this new Oliver. She wants to be a part of something bigger. Is it good for Oliver? Maybe not. She's going to have to be there for Oliver as he faces how to be both Oliver and a superhero. That's why she needs a friend who she can voice her fears and frustrations with since it's not going to be easy dealing with Oliver's mind issues.

Oliver Queen must find a way not to panic and want to internalize all the darkness and pain. If Oliver is to be the Green Arrow he needs to find balance.

Edited September 11, 2015 by tarotx

[tv echo]

That EW article says that Thea has "an unexpected connection to Lonnie Machin, a.k.a. Anarky (Alexander Calvert), a psychotic criminal who poses a major threat in the second episode."  We also know that Anarky is connected in some way to Jessica Danforth and to Damien Darhk.

 

So I'm wondering if Anarky is psychotic because he was resurrected using LP water by DD.

Edited September 11, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

These writers, especially MG LOVE the drama, especially unnecessary drama. They will find a way to have Olicity break up by Season 5 and go back to teasing. 

 

And if they did having a wedding for the 100th (don't even want to think about it) it would be funny that Felicity has had a thing with half the males that would be in the room with Oliver having had a thing with majority of the females in the room.

And by "half," for Felicity you mean two, one of whom is the GROOM, plus some very mild flirting and one kiss with a third?  Arithmetically speaking that is highly incorrect.  Same for Oliver, really, since presumably McKenna and Helena would not be invited, and Isabel is dead.  That means of likely guests, Oliver will have slept with two.  So unless the guest list is extremely limited, your arithmetic could not be more wrong.

Edited September 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Morrigan2575]

That EW article says that Thea has "an unexpected connection to Lonnie Machin, a.k.a. Anarky (Alexander Calvert), a psychotic criminal who poses a major threat in the second episode." We also know that Anarky is connected in some way to Jessica Danforth and to Damien Darhk.

So I'm wondering if Anarky is psychotic because he was resurrected using LP water by DD.

It's possible. DD does have a confrontation with Anarky in one of the promos. Maybe DD brought him back or healed him using the stolen LP water.

[dtissagirl]

Of course Felicity might not have been ready to answer yes to this new Oliver. She wants to be a part of something bigger. Is it good for Oliver? Maybe not. She's going to have to be there for Oliver as he faces how to be both Oliver and a superhero. That's why she needs a friend who she can voice her fears and frustrations with since it's not going to be easy dealing with Oliver's mind issues.

 

I think this is why for me, the fact that Felicity had the new suit ready to go is SUCH A HUGE THING. She already believes that Oliver can be a superhero AND also be whatever else he wants to be at the same time.

 

And beyond that, this is typical Berlanti, who really really loves to do this kind of thing in lieu of character development [see: Witter, Pacey, and that wall he bought]. It's once again the writing going full blown ~*symbolism*~ in how Felicity inspires the hero's journey. She had the bow made for him, then she put the mask on him, and now she's giving him the full suit. I mean. It's actually passed symbolic and became anvilistic now. But it works for me, because they've established her belief in Oliver over and over again, so in-text, it's also super in character for Felicity to do all of this stuff. Good writing, it exists sometimes in this show.

[kismet]

Oh, Oliver. Dude thinks he's ready for marriage because he's had five months of domestic bliss with Felicity and how easy all of this has been. He probably wasn't thinking about potential threats looming over their heads or the possibility of ever getting sucked back into the crime-fighting lifestyle while he was baking souffles. I want Felicity to find out about the ring and for them to have a discussion with both agreeing to wait until Oliver can find the balance between being Green Arrow/Oliver Queen and whether they can sustain their relationship when times aren't always so good. That said, I am enjoying the hell out of the fact that Oliver Queen wants to marry Felicity Smoak!

I get what you're saying... but when he was going to propose the life he was living was the life he had chosen. Of course he felt he was ready, the man has been to hell & back - now that he has finally regained his life why not seize it? He was done with crime fighting. There were no other potential threats looming over his head. All of his personal enemies had been defeated. He has experienced highs and lows with & without FS. He knows that with FS they are better. Being with her helped him find & maintain his balance. Personally, I can understand him wanting to lock it down. Part of me is bummed that I have to wait again to hear FS's response because it would be interesting to see how she feels.

 

An engagement is a asking a person to spend the rest of their life with you through the good and the bad. But most people make that decision while focusing on the good, not preparing for worst. Although I am sure considering how OQ had spent his last 9 years, he probably did take into consideration if FS & him could work through the bad times. FS has always been one of his major support systems through the dark times, so why would that change because of their engagement? He knows that they can weather bad times together because they have before. Granted harder times might be ahead, but that's precisely why he wants FS there by his side as his life partner. An engagement is choosing a partner & making that partnership public. Its a promise to be together & work on things together. I don't see how many more tests O/F need to undergo that they can't undergo while being engaged. Engagement is also a trial period, which is why even though I could see them getting married quickly for valid reasons - I also understand them wanting to wait for as many if not more valid reasons.

 

OQ doesn't want anyone else. He wants FS by his side as his life partner. I personally don't understand why he needs to jump through all these metaphorical hoops to prove that. Of course, when O/F return to SC they will need to find balance again and maintain the mental equilibrium they found while away. But they can do that as an engaged couple. What I enjoy most about this hiatus scenario is in May, I thought they would be traveling the entire time, which is a false sense of reality - so an engagement would be untested. The fact that they were living together and were succeeding at that to me proves that they have already done the basic trials required to get engaged. They have proven to be more than compatible as work colleagues, friends, bf/gf & roommates. When they return to SC, they will probably living together & exclusively dating - so they might as well be engaged since they will be living that lifestyle anyway. Engagement is a choice & a promise to another person to share your lives & journey together. I see no problem with OQ be willing to do that in 401 - its not too early & its not untested. Just because we haven't seen the moments does not change the fact that they happened & the work on the relationship has been put in. Personally I hope the engagement still happens in 401, but I know it probably won't because its a TV show and we need the drama.

[tv echo]

Fans got #OlicityPutsARingOnIt to trend WorldWide and in Brazil (posting this here because of the ring spoiler)...

 

http://smoakandarrow.tumblr.com/post/128826588119/outstanding-job-oliciters-you-helped

Edited September 11, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

And by "half," for Felicity you mean two, one of whom is the GROOM, plus some very mild flirting and one kiss with a third?  Arithmetically speaking that is highly incorrect.  Same for Oliver, really, since presumably McKenna and Helena would not be invited, and Isabel is dead.  That means of likely guests, Oliver will have slept with two.  So unless the guest list is limited to Ray and Barry (who again, Felicity mildly flirted with and kissed once), and Laurel and Sara, your arithmetic could not be more wrong.

Can we even call that a kiss with Barry? I mean it was barely anything & the flirting was just a crush. So really the groom would still be the one that slept with more (2, LL & SL) of the invited guests than the bride (1, RP). But that shouldn't really even matter because a wedding should be about the two people getting married, not who their pre-wedding bedroom dance card. Is it slightly awkward, perhaps - but they are all friends by choice, so if they can work through their awkwardness than we should be able to as well.

 

ETA - After seeing Sakura12's post, I realized my numbers were not clear. The numbers were only the exes, not current partners

Edited September 11, 2015 by kismet

[Sakura12]

It would be 2 for Felicity if Ray is invited. Having exes at your wedding is never not awkward, but I suppose they would invite both Sara and Laurel. Since Felicity is friends with Sara and supposedly friends with Laurel as well. 

 

I would think from the personality we've seen with Laurel she wouldn't want to be there even if she's "friends" with Oliver, while Sara wouldn't care and probably be so happy that they are getting married. 

[lemotomato]

It would still be 1 ex for Felicity if Ray was invited. She never dated Barry.

[kismet]

It would be 2 for Felicity if Ray is invited. Having exes at your wedding is never not awkward, but I suppose they would invite both Sara and Laurel. Since Felicity is friends with Sara and supposedly friends with Laurel as well. 

 

I would think from the personality we've seen with Laurel she wouldn't want to be there even if she's "friends" with Oliver, while Sara wouldn't care and probably be so happy that they are getting married. 

I fixed my post. Thanks for highlighting it! I wasn't including the bride & groom in the numbers. Its was just numbers of guests they had slept with. If the wedding is a crossover event, I assume RP, SL & LL will all be there. They have all transitioned from exes to friends. The other exes will remain uninvited. Yes, I agree it will be awkward to have your exes at your wedding, but they choose to all be friends & that's their choice. Personally, I find it awkward to be friends with exes in general.

 

As for the personality & the friendships, I agree that I don't see LL wanting to be friends with OQ or FS - but the show is forcing me to see it other ways, esp after what they have been promoting for s4. So it makes no sense to me personally, but the show seems deadset on making everybody friends.

Edited September 11, 2015 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

I was responding to the idea that somehow sleeping with two men and kissing a third in three years meant Felicity "had a thing" with half the theoretical wedding attendees.  That's slut-shaming, on someone who's only a slut in DuggarWorld.  I don't even believe Oliver was a slut when he returned from the island, seeing as how he slept with six women in three years. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

Elopement wedding in Vegas, everybody else gets there post-I dos, super pissed that O/F didn't invite anyone, but got had the galls to bat signal the JLA because some supervillain kidnapped Donna.

 

There, fixed it.

Edited September 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[tarotx]

Even Slut Oliver has only sleep with what 5 women in 3+ years of being back from "the island"? He has slowly progressed to being in a relationship with 1 women.

[AyChihuahua]

Six, I think, but I totally agree with your point.

Helena

McKenna

Laurel

Isabel

Sara

Felicity

Five of whom he had actual feelings for.  I cannot imagine thinking someone was a slut for sleeping with six people in three years.  And Felicity...if anything we would have been telling her to get out there and get some. 

Anytime this idea comes out that Felicity is somehow slutty for sleeping with two men and kissing a third in THREE YEARS, I will refute it.  Especially when it involves highly inaccurate arithmetic.

[tarotx]

OH yeah I forgot to count Laurel >.<

[kismet]

Neither OQ or FS have been a slut since the show premiered. S1 was a little iffy for OQ, but even then he only slept with women he was in a relationship (or wanted a relationship with). So in my estimation, not a slut - especially when you compare him to his pre-island Ollie. Isabel being the one major exception to the rule, but that happened for myriad of reasons that have already been discussed ad nausem in other sections. Honestly, OQ has been reformed womanizer through most of the series. And in s3, he only had sex once with 1 person. He's been moving himself towards healthier relationships and being a good gentleman.

 

I honestly do not understand where the notion of FS as a slut even gets its foundation. As of the s3 finale, she has had 2 onscreen love scenes, some kisses (<5), 1 crush (BA), 1 bf (RP), 1 undefined relationship (OQ) & 1 ex-boyfriend (Cooper). Its baffling to me how that makes her a slut. The only thing that was really questionable & a little ew was the fact that the writers made her wait until 320 to dump RP & also wrote her love scene with OQ in the same episode. That didn't sit well with my sensibilities. I think if she had dumped him in 319 or earlier that would have made it better for her reputation. But that's on the writers, how they didn't catch that is beyond me. Then again they also wrote sister swapping & TQ hitting on her unknown brother, so they sometimes miss the ew factor. Honestly, most of the slut shamming is just outright wrong & slanderish.

[Chaser]

OH yeah I forgot to count Laurel >.<

That's okay.

[tarotx]

That's okay.

I think it's just in my head I consider her before the island and Oliver has come a long way from who he was then.

[apinknightmare]

Honest question, because I didn't watch live then, but did anyone have anything to say about Laurel sleeping with both Tommy and Oliver in S1, within a relatively small time frame? I mean, I'm guessing not because ~canon, but I'm just curious, and wondering if the slut shaming for Felicity was born more out of fanboy/girl hatred than misogynistic crap. 

 

Anyway, to keep it on topic, if O/F ever do tie the knot, I hope it's a simple thing.

[dtissagirl]

Back to spoilers:

 

Anyone find it interesting that the [very few] things they teased about the flashbacks were Oliver being in Coast City and then going to parts unknown, and Shadowspire/Baron Reiter/Conklin, and the love interest... and instead the only thing we got in the trailers re: flashbacks were Amanda Waller, and Oliver torturing some dude with a knife?

 

Any guesses on how it all fits? I was thinking maybe Waller tracks Oliver down in Coast City, and the reason he splits town with a criminal organization is to get away from her, but I'm probably totally off.

Edited September 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

Back to spoilers:

 

Anyone find it interesting that the [very few] things they teased about the flashbacks were Oliver being in Coast City and then going to parts unknown, and Shadowspire/Baron Reiter/Conklin, and the love interest... and instead the only thing we got in the trailers re: flashbacks were Amanda Waller, and Oliver torturing some dude with a knife?

 

Any guesses on how it all fits? I was thinking maybe Waller tracks Oliver down in Coast City, and the reason he splits town with a criminal organization is to get away from her, but I'm probably totally off.

He's going undercover for Amanda, in Shadowspire.  Apparently the Baron is into archery, so I'm guessing that's his initial in, and Conklin hates him bc he thinks Oliver's angling for his job as second-in-command.  He'll have to embrace his inner darkness to protect his cover.

[apinknightmare]

All I know is that FB Oliver sans goofy wig going to the dark side is going to be an issue for me, because I enjoyed his...everything while he was casually twisting that knife/arrow/whatever into that guy's leg. 

 

I'm kind of curious as to how the flashbacks come together. I think AyChihuahua is probably right about Oliver going undercover for Amanda. She let him go after the virus was spreading in Hong Kong - I'm guessing he's starting to see that while she is a terrible person, she's not entirely ~bad or whatever, and maybe he feels like he owes her one. 

[tarotx]

Do you all think they are going with Shadowspire instead of Bratva? And they will do a quick Bratva scenario or will hardcore Bravta still be coming?

[apinknightmare]

I feel like hardcore Bratva still has to come at some point? Even though he was tight with Anatoly, I can't imagine he didn't have to work to become a captain. 

[AyChihuahua]

He's also already trying to redeem himself (see proto-Arrow scene), and if she convinces him Shadowspire's really bad, he could buy into going undercover to take them down being a good thing overall.

 

Re Bratva, I don't expect a whole season of Bratva.  There's not really enough time.  I've argued in the past that he's already done enough for Anatoly that Anatoly could make him a captain based on past actions.  And he's not a REAL Bratva captain.  I mean, it's not like he was going to run his own crew and have his own territory.  For him it was mostly a title.  That's why I don't think he has to do a huge amount more to become a captain.  And if Anatoly is a pakhan, which I believe he is, he's pretty powerful.  I do think there will be more Bratva, but not a whole season.I think there will be some crossover between Shadowspire and Bratva, and definitely more Anatoly (which I'm really looking forward to), but not a huge amount.  There's probably crossover between Shadowspire and HIVE, too.  I realize he still has to learn Russian, implying a lot more Bratva, but this show is ridiculous re languages.  I do think/hope he'll spend time in Russia, though.

 

I'm curious what they're going to do in S5, because his beard and hair strongly implied he was on the island again for a long time, but that would be kind of boring, to see him tramping around the island alone for a year.  Maybe he gets stuck there in an ARGUS prison?  Anatoly said that Oliver should know well that breaking into prison is easier than breaking out.  I wonder if that means Oliver ends up in a gulag or ARGUS prison, or if he meant the Amazo, which was kind of a really sick prison ship?

Edited September 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tv echo]

Bratva will probably come into the flashbacks later in this season - or next season. Maybe it was Oliver's last stop before returning to the island.

 

Maybe I'm slow, but I just realized that the reason Diggle's helmet is open in back is because the visor slides from back, over the head, and onto the front to cover his face - then slides back over to cover the back of his head when he wants to expose his face.... I think.

Edited September 11, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

You know, someone said (zero idea of attribution or accuracy) that the long hair and beard on the island in the pilot might have been fake.  I guess that could work.  I mean, he's picked up by a fishing trawler, none of whom speak English.  He goes into the bathroom there, and comes out with his hair cut and beard off.  I don't think the fishermen would question it, and if any of them were suspicious, who would they tell, and why would they care?  That could mean he was on the island again for a much shorter time than the beard and hair would indicate.

[apinknightmare]

His helmet is basically a hockey mask with even more vision restriction. It's good that he can slide it up, but since that's the case, it shouldn't be so substantial in the front.

You know, someone said (zero idea of attribution or accuracy) that the long hair and beard on the island in the pilot might have been fake.  I guess that could work.  I mean, he's picked up by a fishing trawler, none of whom speak English.  He goes into the bathroom there, and comes out with his hair cut and beard off.  I don't think the fishermen would question it, and if any of them were suspicious, who would they tell, and why would they care?  That could mean he was on the island again for a much shorter time than the beard and hair would indicate.

 

Yeah, I think the hair and beard were fake (I mean, with him looking basically like himself in the flashbacks this year, no way it isn't), and he or AW or someone sent him back to Lian Yu to get picked up so that no one would ask a lot of questions about what he was doing in the time he was gone. That's pretty smart, considering he came back planning to be a vigilante (although I guess there was no way around some people being able to connect the fact that the Hood showed up as soon as OQ came back).

Edited September 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

You know, someone said (zero idea of attribution or accuracy) that the long hair and beard on the island in the pilot might have been fake.  I guess that could work.  I mean, he's picked up by a fishing trawler, none of whom speak English.  He goes into the bathroom there, and comes out with his hair cut and beard off.  I don't think the fishermen would question it, and if any of them were suspicious, who would they tell, and why would they care?  That could mean he was on the island again for a much shorter time than the beard and hair would indicate.

 

I think it was Stephen himself who planted this theory. He said something about pitching an idea to the EPs, about how he could get rid of the wig in the flashbacks, and still work with how he looked in the pilot. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, considering he "decided" to go back to SC.

[kismet]

Bratva will probably come into the flashbacks later in this season - or next season. Maybe it was Oliver's last stop before returning to the island.

 

Maybe I'm slow, but I just realized that the reason Diggle's helmet is open in back is because the visor slides from back, over the head, and onto the front to cover his face - then slides back over to cover the back of his head when he wants to expose his face.... I think.

I agree that BRATVA is coming.... I think it is going to be next year for sure. I think there is a possibility that it could come on the end of s4. But they have never done split stories, and Shadowspire seems to be the priority this season in FB. The show sometimes does have cliffhangers in the FB finale. I wonder if they might do something similar this year, where OQ wakes up in Russia or a Russian Prison. Perhaps he uses his connections with Anatoly to get out of prison. However, his arrangement somehow endebts him to Bratva, thereby transitioning him to Bratva. But similar to other seasons, he is forced against his will to do stuff. So still dark & bad OQ, but not completely evil.

 

Sorry, although I appreciate you trying to make the helmet work. Not even your explanation can make that helmet not stupid.

[dtissagirl]

There's an interview with Ramsey in Spanish posted yesterday -- by one of the journos on set earlier in the week -- in which he says the helmet can do a lot of stuff, and that they'll keep adding functions with time:

 

http://www.cooperativa.cl/noticias/entretencion/television/series/actor-de-arrow-respondio-a-las-criticas-sobre-su-traje-de-superheroe-/2015-09-10/045542.html

 

Y, recalcó que el casco "tiene muchas funciones que iremos desarrollando con el tiempo. Hay un montón de cosas que el casco puede hacer".

 

He also mentions his new weapon looks like the one from Blade Runner.

[AyChihuahua]

I agree that BRATVA is coming.... I think it is going to be next year for sure. I think there is a possibility that it could come on the end of s4. But they have never done split stories, and Shadowspire seems to be the priority this season in FB. The show sometimes does have cliffhangers in the FB finale. I wonder if they might do something similar this year, where OQ wakes up in Russia or a Russian Prison. Perhaps he uses his connections with Anatoly to get out of prison. However, his arrangement somehow endebts him to Bratva, thereby transitioning him to Bratva. But similar to other seasons, he is forced against his will to do stuff. So still dark & bad OQ, but not completely evil.

I had heard the beard/hair thing but always thought he'd get caught, and how weird would that come across to the authorities.  But if he just ducked into a bathroom on the trawler and took it all off then chucked it into the sea, the fishermen would just think he'd cut his hair and shaved.  Then yeah, it could work that he's in the Bratva for basically all of S5.

 

I'm just going to say, pastOliver still has not done anything that particularly bothers me.  I suppose I should be horrified that he tortured that general, but nah, that dude just killed thousands of innocent people.  Torture away, Oliver.  The darkest I think they'll have him go is that he MIGHT kill a basically good guy, maybe a crusading prosecutor.

[kismet]

You know, someone said (zero idea of attribution or accuracy) that the long hair and beard on the island in the pilot might have been fake.  I guess that could work.  I mean, he's picked up by a fishing trawler, none of whom speak English.  He goes into the bathroom there, and comes out with his hair cut and beard off.  I don't think the fishermen would question it, and if any of them were suspicious, who would they tell, and why would they care?  That could mean he was on the island again for a much shorter time than the beard and hair would indicate.

Never heard that before. But it does make a lot of sense both in story & production wise. In story, it would be a good cover for him to put himself on the island to be rescued rather than showing up in SC. Production wise, they never showed us his hair or beard being cut, so they are not held to the scene. So basically they have a blank state. I guess what I'm saying is they can choose to put OQ on the island for a year or a day at this point whatever feels more organic to the story. IF that is the case, then I definitely think Bratva will be held until s5.

[Menrva]

Can I just say here how much I appreciate reading everyone's ideas and theories and criticisms for season 4 of Arrow? It's giving me some much needed fun distraction on a day that has a lot of bad memories for me. So, in all sincerity, thank you very much.

 

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled Spoiler Discussion thread! Speculate on!

[Primal Slayer]

I was responding to the idea that somehow sleeping with two men and kissing a third in three years meant Felicity "had a thing" with half the theoretical wedding attendees. That's slut-shaming, on someone who's only a slut in DuggarWorld. I don't even believe Oliver was a slut when he returned from the island, seeing as how he slept with six women in three years.

Except i never said anything about sleeping with them. Having a thing with someone is not as black and white. She and Barry were close to becoming a couple, they had crushes on one another, that's having a thing. Oliver slept with all of his people. It would be funny and would be awkward that the major charecters that attended have such connections with the bride and groom.

[dtissagirl]

But isn't that pretty much how every TV wedding goes? Regular casts switch up love interests as seasons go, so when people get married, the guest are all former love interests. It's the norm, imo.

[Primal Slayer]

Depends on the show. But it is just something that i find funny, it doesn't cause me to call for it to never happen. Nothing more, nothing less.

[HighwayFlower]

TV show universes are just small. Look at Soap Operas! In that case, the bride and groom have probably been married, divorced, and found out they were siblings to half the guests!

[AyChihuahua]

Except i never said anything about sleeping with them. Having a thing with someone is not as black and white. She and Barry were close to becoming a couple, they had crushes on one another, that's having a thing. Oliver slept with all of his people. It would be funny and would be awkward that the major charecters that attended have such connections with the bride and groom.

You said she "had a thing" with "half" the attendees.  Again, that is arithmetically ludicrous.  If you want to include Barry, that means that total guests = 4 people to get to half.  And for Oliver, total guests = 3 to say "a majority." 

Edited September 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

I find it hilarious that we are talking about their wedding when we know they aren't even going to get engaged yet. LOL

 

That clip of Dark! Oliver was working for me. Which should probably be distrubing me.

 

I have such a hard time remembing the flashbacks because they hold little to no interest to me. Maybe this will be the year that changes. Have they ever ecplained Oliver's snowflake status with Waller?

 

Curious and a bit nervous about where the fb girl fits into everything.

[AyChihuahua]

I have such a hard time remembing the flashbacks because they hold little to no interest to me. Maybe this will be the year that changes. Have they ever ecplained Oliver's snowflake status with Waller?

You know, I can kind of see his snowflake status with her NOW.  He overall did a pretty good job in Hong Kong.  I will never understand why she wanted him in Hong Kong so badly THEN. (And the QC job doesn't do it for me, because I don't believe she knew that then, or that his ID was the only way to get the info.  She went through a LOT of trouble for him.)

[dtissagirl]

Curious and a bit nervous about where the fb girl fits into everything.

 

I kinda want her to be Conklin's girlfriend, or crush. Flashback love triangle = so much potential for pointing and laughing.

[statsgirl]

Oliver's snowflake status with Waller had always been WTF? to me.  But then, he's got snowflake status with MM and Ra's too. Please let DD not care about him.I

 

If the hair and beard were fake (there is still time to grow the beard and he seems to have been allergic to hair cuts in the flashbacks) I hope Amanda Waller also sent the boat to the island because otherwise he'd have to be wearing a wig all the time waiting, and those things are hot!

I guess I meant we know he is all in and willing to go the distance. Last season he wasn't all in. He was working towards getting there, but he wasn't there. We & FS knew he loved her, but that wasn't enough for him to be willing to be with her. I appreciate his devotion to her in s3, but I wouldn't consider it ALL IN, and neither did FS. This season, he's got the house, the ring, the everything. He's all in. It's refreshing.

Something that I really liked on the trailer is that we saw Oliver having doubts but voicing them to Felicity and Felicity trying to help him through them. For him, that's huge.  It gives me hope that this season won't be about pushing the people close to him away, as the last 3 were, but finally learning the lesson and working through the stuff with them.

 

I don't get an engagement being too soon for them as a couple (as opposed to being too soon in the series). They've known each other for 3 years and been living as equivalent-to-married for five months.  That's longer than most people I know, including me.

 

The thing is that Oliver was ready to give Crime fighting and such up. He doesn't want the Darkness. And it's not a bad thing for Oliver to just completely remove himself from the bad shit that is a trigger for his PTSD. So Oliver was ready. Of course Felicity might not have been ready to answer yes to this new Oliver. She wants to be a part of something bigger. Is it good for Oliver? Maybe not. She's going to have to be there for Oliver as he faces how to be both Oliver and a superhero. That's why she needs a friend who she can voice her fears and frustrations with since it's not going to be easy dealing with Oliver's mind issues.

Just guessing here but given how willingly Oliver shouldered his father's crusade and then saving Starling City, maybe he does need to fight the bad shit and the season will be about how he can do that and not lose himself.

 

Given Diggle's actions in s3, I'm good for Felicity to find another friend to talk to.

 

Elopement wedding in Vegas, everybody else gets there post-I dos, super pissed that O/F didn't invite anyone, but got had the galls to bat signal the JLA because some supervillain kidnapped Donna.

Castle did that, had only Martha and Alexis at the wedding and Ryan, Esposito, Lainie etc. got pissed off that they weren't invited.  It wasn't pleasant to watch, even though they played it for laughs.

[catrox14]

 

Except i never said anything about sleeping with them. Having a thing with someone is not as black and white. She and Barry were close to becoming a couple, they had crushes on one another, that's having a thing. Oliver slept with all of his people. It would be funny and would be awkward that the major charecters that attended have such connections with the bride and groom.

 

Barry and Felicity really weren't anywhere close to becoming a couple IMO. Barry crushed on her. Felicity liked him. But I don't think they even had an actual date they set up by themselves at least that I can recall. Oliver invited him to the soiree at his house and Felicity and Barry danced. They had a brief peck on the train that was the end of the possibly, maybe, could be, if Felicity didn't have heart eyes for Oliver the whole time.

 

It's typical fodder for a show to have people be at a wedding that make it awkward.

 

That clip of Dark! Oliver was working for me. Which should probably be distrubing me.

 

I have a weak spot for Dark!Oliver. I still think the hottest, baddass, dark!Oliver moment for me was when he was wearing that camel/tan coat and confronted the Russians and had the two guns.../whew....

[Primal Slayer]

You said she "had a thing" with half the attendees. Again, that is arithmetically ludicrous. If you want to include Barry, that means that total guests = 4 people to get to half. And for Oliver, total guests = 3 to say "a majority."

Big whoop, she had ab thing 2 guys, him 2 girls if Helena doesn't show up. It really isn't a big thing to be upset about. Are they going to have a big wedding? Thea/Laurel/Digg/Lyla/Ray/Roy/Sara/Barry/Cisco/Caitlin/Iris would probably be the only ones to attend.

When i start calling blasphemy, we can freak out.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[AyChihuahua]

Barry and Felicity really weren't anywhere close to becoming a couple IMO. Barry crushed on her. Felicity liked him. But I don't think they even had an actual date they set up by themselves at least that I can recall. Oliver invited him to the soiree at his house and Felicity and Barry danced. They had a brief peck on the train that was the end of the possibly, maybe, could be, if Felicity didn't have heart eyes for Oliver the whole time.

 

It's typical fodder for a show to have people be at a wedding that make it awkward.

They had a date in S3, when Felicity massively overdressed for a daylight date playing trivia games at a coffee shop.  One date. 

Big whoop, she had ab thing 2 guys, him 2 girls if Helena doesn't show up. It really isn't a big thing to be upset about. Are they going to have a big wedding? Thea/Laurel/Digg/Lyla/Ray/Roy/Sara/Barry/Cisco/Caitlin/Iris would probably be the only ones to attend.

That is 11 guests.  Please help me understand how 2/11 = "half"?