Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Featherhat]

Threefold crossovers are a nightmare in established series with fewer characters. Since this this the "Avengers Effect" on screen Avengers 2 makes a mishmash (IMHO) of good and bad in nearly 3 hours and they aren't going to do much better than that in less even if they pick premium characters. I like a lot of the cast but I don't have high expectations.

[GreatAtBoats]

Bottom line, some characters were sidelined last season, not only during the crossover but often throughout the entire season, to suit the specific purposes the producers had in mind. This year that might happen again during the crossover, but to different characters.
 

Oh well.

Edited July 22, 2015 by GreatAtBoats

[wingster55]

I wouldn't be surprised if Thea (and Iris) become sidelined in the crossover again, since they aren't privy to the identities of Flash and Arrow respectively. Actually I don't even think Thea knows there is a Team Flash and ditto with Iris...she knows Felicity but has 0 clue that she helps the Arrow.  

[Morrigan2575]

My guess and it's just a guess but I can see this crossover being a backdoor pilot for LoT more than a Flarrow Crossover.  I'm thinking they'll redo the scene from the Upfronts trailer with Arrow/Flash/LoT on the roof and then set off on that adventure/fight featured in the promo.  It's a good way to reuse the already shot footage plus give an introduction to all of the characters.  As such, I'm guessing almost everyone but Arrow/Flash/LoT will have a limited screentime.

 

Since I'm assuming Sara/Ray will already be brought back from the dead by 408 (although Ray is questionable).  You wouldn't need big moments with Sara/Laurel, Sara/Lance, Sara/Thea or Felicity/Ray in the crossover.  Although, if they do reuse the Sara/Stein/Ray scene from the promo then it's possible that Ray gets "brought back to life" in 208/408 which would allow for Cisco/Felicity scenes in the crossover.  If they hold off on bringing Ray back, then I could see the need for Felicity to go to The Flash to work with Cisco/Wells(?) to help un-shrink Ray.  Then you could reserve the Arrow part of the crossover for the actual LoT team up/back door pilot.

 

I expect that Lance, Iris and Diggle will probably get short changed this time around.  I'm guessing Thea will have the same amount of screen-time as Roy in 308 and Laurel will have more screen-time than she did in 308 if they want to tie Sara's journey to Laurel.  However, I suspect they don't, I suspect that it's mostly going to be THE heroes which, makes sense (IMO).  Flash's hero journey was tied to Arrow (208/209, pilot and Flarrow crossover).  Ray's hero journey was tied to Arrow's in 319, I suspect that the LoT will be tied to Arrow (Sara/Ray) and Flash (Stein, Heatwave/Cold, Hawkgirl and Mystery Character).  Rip Hunter will probably not be tied to either hero, he'll serve a different function in the Crossover/spinoff and will only start his real heroes journey in S1 of LoT.  They could also keep the mystery character to LoT's actual pilot, they really seem to want to protect this character's identity.

 

I (personally) don't think Cisco or Felicity will be completely short changed or left out of the crossover.  Mostly because both of those characters are fan favorites, and could serve actual roles story related roles with Ray.  They're pretty much the only two characters that have been connected to Ray on an emotional level.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I mean, the crossover isn't meant to be an equal showcase for everyone on each show. It's to entice people who watch one to watch the other, so they'll use the characters they know people love on Arrow over on The Flash, and vice versa. Especially if they're using this crossover event as a backdoor pilot for LoT. So, someone's going to get "shortchanged," and it's going to be the character(s) TPTB don't feel pull in enough viewer interest. 

[dtissagirl]

Actors and showrunners alike made some references to what a logistical nightmare the crossover shooting was last season, and how gruesome it was for everyone involved. But the crossover event is the network's golden goose, so I wouldn't be the least surprised if these are the episodes under greater scrutiny from the suits at the CW. There's actual real chance that the network dictates which characters are getting MVP status on the crossover this time around.

 

So if you want your fave to be showcased, I'd say start bombarding the CW with your interest right about now. They're currently writing episodes 4 and 5. By my count, they start breaking episode 8 in 2 weeks.

[tangerine95]

I think were gonna get the main teams like in the first crossover plus LoT characters.The crossover is a chance to bring in new viewers so they're gonna give the most popular characters more screentime. Arrow got a million new viewers from the first one and lost them all because they killed their lead and pushed the awful "black canary trilogy" right after.Hope they're going to be smarter about it this time.

[Morrigan2575]

I mean, the crossover isn't meant to be an equal showcase for everyone on each show. It's to entice people who watch one to watch the other, so they'll use the characters they know people love on Arrow over on The Flash, and vice versa. Especially if they're using this crossover event as a backdoor pilot for LoT. So, someone's going to get "shortchanged," and it's going to be the character(s) TPTB don't feel pull in enough viewer interest. 

I agree, I just don't know who the EPs and Network consider Fan Favorites, or popular characters other than the obvious two (Cisco/Felicity).  I also don't know if they're going to follow the same formula as last time.  

 

Actors and showrunners alike made some references to what a logistical nightmare the crossover shooting was last season, and how gruesome it was for everyone involved. But the crossover event is the network's golden goose, so I wouldn't be the least surprised if these are the episodes under greater scrutiny from the suits at the CW. There's actual real chance that the network dictates which characters are getting MVP status on the crossover this time around.

 

I wonder if filming is easier this year since 208/408 would film simultaneously this time?  Last year they were off by one episode but now they could possibly film both episodes as if they were a single 2 hour (ish) movie?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I hope so. Flash started back a week before Arrow, so technically they're still about half an episode ahead. Better than a full episode, sure, but still ahead. But maybe that was planned to accommodate the crossover shooting?

[apinknightmare]

I agree, I just don't know who the EPs and Network consider Fan Favorites, or popular characters other than the obvious two (Cisco/Felicity).  I also don't know if they're going to follow the same formula as last time.  

 

Yeah, it's a different animal this year. I suspect that since The Flash and Arrow are both going to be launching the spin-off, the LoT characters on The Flash will interact with Arrow faves, and the LoT characters on Arrow will interact with The Flash faves. Or something along those lines. I don't think the faves will necessarily be a big part of the story if the goal is to get LoT off the ground. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, it's a different animal this year. I suspect that since The Flash and Arrow are both going to be launching the spin-off, the LoT characters on The Flash will interact with Arrow faves, and the LoT characters on Arrow will interact with The Flash faves. Or something along those lines. I don't think the faves will necessarily be a big part of the story if the goal is to get LoT off the ground. 

That's a good point.  I wonder if the crossover will even involve Flash/Arrow?  I wonder if it's Team LoT appearing on both Arrow/Flash but no one from Arrow/Flash actually appearing on the other show?  Would that count as a crossover?  hmmm...

[apinknightmare]

That's a good point.  I wonder if the crossover will even involve Flash/Arrow?  I wonder if it's Team LoT appearing on both Arrow/Flash but no one from Arrow/Flash actually appearing on the other show?  Would that count as a crossover?  hmmm...

 

I think it probably will, since they're enticing us into watching the new show. So, they'll use Flash/Arrow characters to give us a reason to be invested in watching these people that we don't really know/care about yet. I'm not sure how it'll work though - are they going to get the full team together on a crossover, or save that for the LoT premiere? I guess maybe they'll show some clashes during the crossover and they'll be forced into working together as a team for their first mission? 

 

Since KC said at Comic Con that Laurel has a big hand in getting the team together, I wonder if the crossover ep is going to have her getting kidnapped and sucked into some kind of time warp? 

[dtissagirl]

I'm thinking there's gonna be at least one scene with every masked character ever all together onscreen, because there's no fucking way they're wasting that opportunity. Justice Leaguing, y'all.

[Velocity23]

http://deadline.com/2015/07/arrow-jimmy-akingbola-cast-baron-reiter-blitzkrieg-season-4-1201483262/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

‘Arrow’ Casts Jimmy Akingbola As Oliver’s Nemesis Baron Reiter

[AyChihuahua]

Apparently a Vandal Savage ally (and a Nazi).  The season is getting AWFULLY crowded.

[Angel12d]

Interesting! And another POC which is fantastic. Does this give us a hint at where the flashbacks will be set?

[NumberCruncher]

I have no problem with all of the casting announcements for one- or two-episode villains. It's the multi-episode arc characters (*cough* RP) that turn the focus away from the main cast and storyline that grate on my patience.

[dtissagirl]

So they're maybe connecting this season's flashbacks to Vandal Savage?

[doesntworkonwood]

I quite like Akingbola, so I'm glad they've cast him. He seems to have fairly good range, but I think he does comedy especially well, so I am hoping he gets that with this character too (though I unfortunately doubt it).

[foreverevolving]

Apparently a Vandal Savage ally (and a Nazi).  The season is getting AWFULLY crowded.

for all we know he may only appear in a handful of episodes. Or in flashbacks only. i say we should wait and see.

[apinknightmare]

MG said in an interview today (I can't find the link yet) that he's not a Nazi in this iteration, and they brought him in because of his connections to Shadowspire. So...I guess H.I.V.E. isn't the only crime syndicate we've got coming our way this season. 

[NoWayOut]

I was just reading it. Here's the link: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/22/arrow-season-4-baron-reiter-blitzkrieg

[Scribbles]

I was just reading it. Here's the link: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/22/arrow-season-4-baron-reiter-blitzkrieg

Same article spoils/confirms Coast City as setting of Flashbacks.   I have to wonder how much the spin off of LOT is changing up the original playbook.  

[AyChihuahua]

MG said in an interview today (I can't find the link yet) that he's not a Nazi in this iteration, and they brought him in because of his connections to Shadowspire. So...I guess H.I.V.E. isn't the only crime syndicate we've got coming our way this season.

I figured, because the actor is black.

I don't see why HIVE isn't enough. Stuffing it too full. Guggie's blathering on about plot twists again, too. ARRRGGHH.

Edited July 23, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

I'm not at all familiar with Shadowspire, and a quick googling also doesn't tell me much. Very few appearances/references in the comics, it seems? Which means Arrow can do pretty much whatever they want with it. Especially now that they lost the Suicide Squad to the movies.

 

I'm still sorta wondering if the flashbacks start in Coast City, and then Baron Reiter and/or Shadowspire takes Oliver somewhere else -- like say, Russia.

 

Also, the chances that Shadowspire and HIVE are super connected are like, 97%, right?

[AyChihuahua]

I'm pretty excited about Mr. Terrific.  I hated Ben and Kate, because I hated Ben and I hated Kate.  But I remember the actor playing Mr. Terrific being rather charming.  He also just seems super psyched to be aboard, which is nice, and I'm happy to see Felicity get a friend.

 

I've also almost convinced myself that DD will be Felicity's father.  it's stupid and illogical, but S3 proved definitively that stupid and illogical is right in Guggie's wheelhouse.  Can't wait to see Oliver lighten up, because SA is actually very good at comedy.  Not broad comedy, but he has excellent comic timing and makes great facial expressions.

 

It looks like Oliver's Russian language instruction will be just as expedited as his Mandarin instruction, since he's not going to Russia for awhile.  By the end of the S3 flashbacks he knew one Russian word: prochnost, which he couldn't pronounce correctly.  I guess he could learn in Coast City, but seems unlikely. 

 

Wonder who they're going to cast for Vandal Savage?  He's a pretty major DC villain, so it'd better be somebody really good.

[Velocity23]

 

Episode 2 starts filming today

[apinknightmare]

If "the candidate" is Oliver and not some other person whose place he'll eventually take in the mayoral race, they're getting him involved in politics awfully quickly, haha.

[Velocity23]

What about that lady from the casting call? Who knew Thea & Oliver?

[apinknightmare]

What about that lady from the casting call? Who knew Thea & Oliver?

 

Yeah, she's one candidate. There should be at least one more, unless she's running uncontested. 

[Chaser]

Potentially Green Arrow in the first episode and a mayoral candidate in the second. The aren't leaving a lot of breathing room for the plot points. I'm personally not looking forward to the political aspect. I mean look what they did to the legal storylines. And they actually have a lawyer as a show runner and writer.

[Carrie Ann]

Maybe Oliver and Thea will support her bid for mayor or whatever (srsly, the people of Starling must be really sick of mayoral elections), and then somehow Oliver will end up being deputy mayor for reasons, and then obvs eventually the mayor will die as they all must and Oliver becomes the mayor.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe Oliver and Thea will support her bid for mayor or whatever (srsly, the people of Starling must be really sick of mayoral elections), and then somehow Oliver will end up being deputy mayor for reasons, and then obvs eventually the mayor will die as they all must and Oliver becomes the mayor.

 

I would actually prefer something like this.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe Oliver and Thea will support her bid for mayor or whatever (srsly, the people of Starling must be really sick of mayoral elections), and then somehow Oliver will end up being deputy mayor for reasons, and then obvs eventually the mayor will die as they all must and Oliver becomes the mayor.

 

I need this to happen because hilarity. Also his first episode as Deputy Mayor should be filmed mockumentary style.

[wonderwall]

I don't care what anyone says, I'm happy that they're connecting Oliver more to the city by making him run for Mayor. I wonder what will convince him? I'm guessing Felicity. Regardless, Oliver needs to do SOMETHING. And I feel like it's a good way to engage Oliver instead of have him be broody 90% of the time. This season isn't leaving much room for Laurel.

• Flashback Villain
• Current villain (Damien Darhk/HIVE)
• More focus on Diggle action
• More focus of Felicity's ambitions
• Oliver's Mayoral race
• Thea going through the LP effects
• Oliver/Felicity (but I think this is going to be way in the background this season which I don't mind)
• The introduction of Mr. Terrific (I'm guessing he's going to be a real Gary Stu)
• LoT set up (I'm thinking it's not going to be as entwined into the season as I thought it was going to be

 

Also it just makes me giggle that Oliver/Felicity are going to be Starling's power couple what with her being QCs CEO and Oliver running for Mayor :p

[Starfish35]

Has Oliver running for mayor been confirmed? *confused*

[wonderwall]

Has Oliver running for mayor been confirmed? *confused*

More or less. What with Stephen saying that if you're interested in his political views you'll love S4 and the second episode being called The Candidate, I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Angel12d]

I can see someone else running for Mayor first and then Oliver being convinced to do it. 

Edited July 23, 2015 by Angel12d

[AyChihuahua]

I'm cool with Oliver running for mayor, too.  One of the [many many many many] things I hated about S3 was the major lack of anything outside Arrow business on the show.  I mean, it's going to be totally unrealistic, but I can suspend my disbelief for something that potentially fun.

 

I think, though, that "The Candidate" is probably the woman who was Moira's friend, and Oliver becomes mayor later/another way.

[apinknightmare]

As a guess, it'll go something like this: The candidate will be Moira's friend, the one Oliver and Thea were close to when they were younger. Her daughter (the one she'd do anything for, or however the description worded it), will get into some trouble/will already be in some trouble, and Oliver and/or Thea are going to find out about it. Will the lady want to be mayor because of this? Is there some foul plan underfoot? Both? They're going to have difficulty reconciling the lady they knew with this one, who is willing to abuse her power, and someone will convince Oliver that the best way to stop her (and any future crazy candidates, since the city has had a few), would be to run for mayor himself. 

 

Or, like Carrie Ann wrote, he'll be deputy for a while before the actual mayor bites it.

Edited July 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

Shallow, but the thing I like the most about Oliver hypothetically running for mayor is that he'll get to wear suits again. I feel like he wore the same 2 Henleys and plaid shirts for all of season 3

[AyChihuahua]

Shallow, but the thing I like the most about Oliver hypothetically running for mayor is that he'll get to wear suits again. I feel like he wore the same 2 Henleys and plaid shirts for all of season 3

Hey, they cast a totally hot guy in the lead and then had him be shirtless "all the time" in S1 and S2.  We're only enjoying what has been given to us.  Not to enjoy our gift would be rude.

 

Also, seriously, need more shirtless/training scenes in S4. 

[WaitandHope]

I wonder how fans are going to react if they make Oliver the progressive/liberal-minded political figure that he is in the comics?  I think they will need to tone it down  to appeal to the masses, but it will be interesting for certain.   I think it would be awfully hard to make an action show into a politically-minded show and not upset a certain group of fans.  But maybe that's the big twist at the end of Ep 1 that takes the show in a new direction?   (I'm a big liberal BTW, but I'm guessing that's not everyone who loves the show.) 

 

If this happens, I suppose they could tiptoe around a lot of "policies" and "politics" and try to be strongly in the middle but with a good heart.  I'm really looking forward to seeing Oliver Queen again - whatever they end up doing with him.  He's been missed.  When I re-watched the crossover episodes last week, the advice (anvils?)  from Barry seemed to foreshadow this pretty strongly.  I'm glad they are following through on that piece and am cautiously optimistic. 

 

PS.  And, yes, from the shallow end of pool, I agree on the suits...especially with suspenders.  Can't wait!

[tangerine95]

Maybe I'm the only one but I'm not that excited for Oliver to become mayor.I like the idea of him having a life besides being the arrow.It's just how is it gonna work?Is the mayor just going to disappear every time there's a crisis on the city and come back when its done?

[Morrigan2575]

Can someone provide the actual quote about Oliver and politics? Did SA actually say Oliver is going to be mayor or run for office or did he say Oliver would get involved in politics or we'd get to see Oliver's political views? The last two don't really necessitate Oliver being Mayor. Could be Oliver working for the mayor or campaigning for this other candidate.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe I'm the only one but I'm not that excited for Oliver to become mayor.I like the idea of him having a life besides being the arrow.It's just how is it gonna work?Is the mayor just going to disappear every time there's a crisis on the city and come back when its done?

Isn't that kind of what SC mayors do?  I mean, the last one signed over an entire section of the city to a crime boss.  The one before that engineered a terrorist attack.  The bar is set very low for being a decent SC mayor.

[Ruby25]

I think it's a good idea for Oliver to get into politics and have more of that connection to the city as Oliver Queen. It brings back some of the Moira-type subplots from Seasons 1 and 2 that I think were missing in 3. In fact, I think in retrospect, killing Moira off proved much more consequential in terms of the show's storylines than they anticipated it being. But Oliver's family being involved in the running of the city was always more important they they may have realized, in my opinion.

[tangerine95]

Yeah it doesn't take much to be better then the previous ones.I'm just not sure how well it would work on the show.Even when other mayors were being incompetent,they were still in their office or giving press conferences.How is he gonna do that and be green arrow?

[apinknightmare]

I think it'll add an interesting dynamic now that everyone in his inner circle is aware of his alter ego. When a crisis hits the city, he's got to be in charge instead of out there in his suit. I think it could be a good way of balancing Oliver's story while including the others instead of having to make him disappear like they did last season.