Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Soulfire]

From Tiffany Vogt's latest round of Twitter replies (more in the Spoilers thread) --

 

Q: can you describe the morning after in 3 words?
A: Teasing, intimate and with good humor -- as every good morning-after should be!

 

 

Yeah. Pretty sure I'm going to die.

[Guest]

From Tiffany Vogt's latest round of Twitter replies (more in the Spoilers thread) --

 

 

Yeah. Pretty sure I'm going to die.

 

Going to die? I'm already dead. 

I don't think Ra's is a shipper. I assume this is the end of the fiery confrontation between Felicity and Ra's. For whatever reason I think he is probably just giving into her demand and repeating what she said. He might have decided she wasn't worth the headache it would cause with his new heir if he ran her threw with his sword. :)

 

I actually can't believe people are saying that Ra's being in a scene with Felicity means he's a shipper. I mean, come on. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Did they actually believe Ra's wouldn't try to rile up the woman Oliver loves? It's all a big game to him - a means to an end.

[kismet]

I feel like Ra's only cares about his plan to make OQ the new Heir. So part of me feels like he will use Felicity & the lovemaking as part of the brainwashing. As they will use stuff with Thea & Diggle as well. I don't know how, but I would put money on video cameras in the bedroom. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, he will probably use some type of herbs/ LoA trademarked secret brainwashing techniques to manipulate all that is good in OQ's mind to somehow be turned bad. Its a way to disconnect him from his past and prevent him from wanting to renig on his commitment to the league. So that way when Evil OQ emerges from the brainwashing he has no ties to his past relationships. Therefore allowing the writers to go as wild as they want.

 

I also feel that them using FS, TQ & JD as part of the brainwashing will be the flaw in it as well. It feels like we might get more Chuck like evilSara scenes only this time with evilOQ. In which evilOQ will instinctually do multiple things out of love that pre-bw OQ would have done but evilOQ would not. The gradual building up of these moments will cause him to question things, maybe he'll even have flashes that contradict what the bw told him. It will be how TA can break through the brainwashing, because deep inside the real OQ is not gone and the core of who he is is the love of his family (TQ & TA). So they will use that to help get him back. Maybe a kiss from FS, a hug from TQ (who hopefully does not stay crazy too long) & a brotherly moment from Diggle, some combined emotional tour de force to wrestle out the realOQ from the evilOQ.

[looptab]

Will Diggle find out that Olicity had sex? Haha

A: It's not a secret. Diggle knows, but he wasn't there.

 

LMAO Thanks for clarifying that! 

[dtissagirl]

I'm surprised by the thing about Diggle being proud of Oliver in this one. Not that I don't think Diggle shouldn't, but I was expecting Team Arrow to fight Oliver all the way through this LoA storyline. So, now I'm wondering if this is Oliver being honorable -- he made a deal with Ra's in exchange for Thea's life, and now he's honoring that.

 

And then I guess the other shoe will drop on Oliver when he's turned evil somehow? Or the other shoe will drop on the audience when we realize evil!Oliver is a GOTCHA! again, you fools?

[ostentatious]

Going to die? I'm already dead.

I actually can't believe people are saying that Ra's being in a scene with Felicity means he's a shipper. I mean, come on. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Did they actually believe Ra's wouldn't try to rile up the woman Oliver loves? It's all a big game to him - a means to an end.

Surely only NOLICITY types are saying this in a non-joking manner?

Regarding the "most explicit sex scene the CW has ever done" spoiler...

I don't even know what to say. I am speechless.

Edited April 18, 2015 by ostentatious

[Chaser]

LMAO Thanks for clarifying that! 

Questions like that give me second hand embrassment.... Yeah, Oliver's going to slip hi-fives with Diggle.

 

Diggle and Felicity. Felicity and Malcolm. Made my day. I need this episode.

[Soulfire]

Added some new replies in the Spoilers thread. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Soulfire

[catrox14]

This is Gossip Ghul. That's it. He's not a shipper of anything but death and destruction and sexism, at least so far. He doesn't ship his own daughter's love life! LOL. No, this is a calculated thing on Ra's part. He doesn't give a rats ass about Olicity or any other ship other than how it moves along whatever scheme he has going. His job is to divide and conquer and manipulate and he'll use whatever tools he has at his disposal.

[KenyaJ]

These Olicity spoilers, tho. I need it to be Wednesday NOW, and I haven't said that since the week before "The Calm."

[quarks]

I have to admit, though, that I'm enjoying the image of Ra's Al Ghul, world weary matchmaker to assassins and superheroes alike:  "You two are perfect for each other. Wed, and then I shall stab you both and throw you over a cliff. And this time, can one of my minions make sure that there's no penicillin tea at the bottom of that cliff?"

[jay741982]

These Olicity spoilers, tho. I need it to be Wednesday NOW, and I haven't said that since the week before "The Calm."

You ain't kidding I NEED this episode! Like Now! So much Olicity Goodness. We deserve this LOL

[Chaser]

I'm starting to think that MG wasn't kidding about pushing Felicity and Thea interaction to S12. Seriously.

[Guest]

Surely only NOLICITY types are saying this in a non-joking manner?

 

Haha, yes. I read the TV Line article this morning and there was a couple of comments on there saying that Ra's was now 'pimping' Olicity and I just laughed because it makes no sense. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Q: How tearjerking are the Diggle and Oliver scenes?

A: No tears needed. Nothing to cry about. Oliver is not dead or dying. More like proud, brotherly Diggle/Oliver scenes.

 

I'm intrigued because they said there was going to be some issues with Oliver and Diggle's relationship, so this must mean whatever Oliver does while he's in the LOA maybe causes problems?

[wonderwall]

You know, Ra's telling Felicity to say goodbye to Oliver means that there's less of a chance they're going to get married this season. At least, I hope so

[Soulfire]

I'm intrigued because they said there was going to be some issues with Oliver and Diggle's relationship, so this must mean whatever Oliver does while he's in the LOA maybe causes problems?

 

Here's another reply from Tiffany's twitter regarding them --

 

"Oliver/Diggle bromance as strong as ever, but will face tough challenges in episodes to come."

- https://twitter.com/TVWatchtower/status/589479231341469696

[kismet]

Still think the Diggle/Oliver relationship anvil is going to revolve around OQ having some role in directly or indirectly (most likely) in Andy Diggle's assassination. That is the only thing irreparable that has long standing repercussions. If evilOQ attacks Lyla & LilSara, I could see Diggle forgiving him because he was under the brainwashing spell. I don't see Diggle being as forgiving to OQ even if it was years ago & he was likely doing it in response to Argus/Bratva request. Andy's death shattered Diggle's life and the life of his nephew. We all saw that level of pain, hurt & anger in s1. He is not going be so easy or quick to just forgive OQ for whatever role he played. I think eventually he will come around in s4, but I think there will be realistic tension there for awhile. Blood always runs thicker than water, even if that water is now blood like.

Edited April 18, 2015 by kismet

[ostentatious]

Still think the Diggle/Oliver relationship anvil is going to revolve around OQ having some role in directly or indirectly (most likely) in Andy Diggle's assassination. That is the only thing irreparable that has long standing repercussions. If evilOQ attacks Lyla & LilSara, I could see Diggle forgiving him because he was under the brainwashing spell. I don't see Diggle being as forgiving to OQ even if it was years ago & he was likely doing it in response to Argus/Bratva request. Andy's death shattered Diggle's life and the life of his nephew. We all saw that level of pain, hurt & anger in s1. He is not going be so easy or quick to just forgive OQ for whatever role he played. I think eventually he will come around in s4, but I think there will be realistic tension there for awhile. Blood always runs thicker than water, even if that water is now blood like.

It really is the only thing that works. Because there would be nothing more earned than that devastation. If Diggle's brother was involved with the murder of his other brother...oh man.

[apinknightmare]

The only way that works for me is if Oliver has no idea he was involved. And how involved could he be? Deadshot is the one who killed Andy. Oliver could've been involved whatever it was that made whoever want Andy dead, but he can't have ever heard the name Andy Diggle. 

[Starfish35]

I don't think it will be that, because I don't think we're going to get anymore about H.I.V.E. until next season. I think something will happen while Oliver is evil!Oliver that will cause problems between them.

[kismet]

The only way that works for me is if Oliver has no idea he was involved. And how involved could he be? Deadshot is the one who killed Andy. Oliver could've been involved whatever it was that made whoever want Andy dead, but he can't have ever heard the name Andy Diggle. 

Agree and it was a female (if I remember correctly) that approached Deadshot with the offer. Deadshot is the actual sniper that shot Andy Diggle, that is fact. So how it all plays out, I guess we'll have to wait & see. I mean I could write out quite a few ideas right now, but it would be a lot of speculation & a long post. Long & short of it is that I think OQ will be involved in Andy Diggle's death. But you're right, most likely OQ would have never heard Andy Diggle's name. Otherwise OQ has been lying for 3 years to a man he considers a brother & I just can't see the writers choosing that route. I also can't imagine post-island OQ willfully lying to his friend about something so big, unless of course he felt it was the only way to keep Diggle safe. But I hope the writers don't go down that route.

I don't think it will be that, because I don't think we're going to get anymore about H.I.V.E. until next season. I think something will happen while Oliver is evil!Oliver that will cause problems between them.

They could link Andy Diggle to the Alpha/Omega virus. Because otherwise what's the point of having it in the flashbacks? Also why cast & reveal Andy Diggle before s4 if he's not gonna come up again? I just think there has to be a reason they put Andy in the SC flashback episode, there was really no plot purpose or need for him there. They are tight with their budget these days, so I imagine something will come from that scene & not just be put there fore s4.

 

But then again, it might just be evilOQ attacking Dig & his family. That is very plausible, not as exciting or intriguing - but very emotional none the less esp with SA & DR acting in scenes.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, Andy's coming up again, definitely. I just don't want Oliver to knowingly be involved in his death. I really don't want him unknowingly involved, either. 

[dtissagirl]

Ugh, yeah. If Oliver knows anything about Andy's death and hasn't said anything until now, then he's an enormous asshole. If he was involved somehow, but didn't know, it's a terrible thing, but then, why would Diggle be talking about "hurt feelings and broken trust" in the finale, like Guggenheim said in the Buzzfeed article about Colton leaving?

It does look like Oliver betrays Diggle in some way, and ugh. Not looking forward to that at all.

[Starfish35]

They cast the mother of Oliver's child already, and she's only appeared twice. Once last season and once on The Flash this season. So I'm not putting any significance into them having cast Andy already.

[ostentatious]

The only way that works for me is if Oliver has no idea he was involved. And how involved could he be? Deadshot is the one who killed Andy. Oliver could've been involved whatever it was that made whoever want Andy dead, but he can't have ever heard the name Andy Diggle.

He also doesn't sound like he ever heard of Deadshot before he reads the Interpol records in 103. So, if he was involved, it would've been...a culpable mediary. Or he would've made a choice that saved someone else but doomed Andy. Hmm, where have I heard that before.

[chaos is welcome]

Oh, Andy's coming up again, definitely. I just don't want Oliver to knowingly be involved in his death. I really don't want him unknowingly involved, either. 

I could buy HIVE involvement for OQ in year 4 of "island life"

 

You know what I really need?  Oliver looking to Felicity and saying "I'm not just accepting this, I have a PLAN", it would be a lovely parallel to what went down last season when he was all ready to give up.

 

I am dead over the explicit sex stuff. Gonna have to send my son to the other room LOLOLOLOL.

[foreverevolving]

They could link Andy Diggle to the Alpha/Omega virus. Because otherwise what's the point of having it in the flashbacks? Also why cast & reveal Andy Diggle before s4 if he's not gonna come up again? I just think there has to be a reason they put Andy in the SC flashback episode, 

 

perhaps Andy is working for Sherver(sp?) or used to serve under him? didn't they say Andy was ex-military too?

I mean it is kind of odd that they added this military guy in the flashbacks while also adding Andy diggle an ex military, and HIVE- all in the same season.

I have to wonder if there is a connection.

Edited April 18, 2015 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

He also doesn't sound like he ever heard of Deadshot before he reads the Interpol records in 103. So, if he was involved, it would've been...a culpable mediary. Or he would've made a choice that saved someone else but doomed Andy. Hmm, where have I heard that before.

And Diggle feeling betrayed over something like that for any length of time would just be...I don't want to say silly, but maybe not Diggle like. I'm not sure what else Oliver could do that would make Diggle feel betrayed though, because Diggle being hurt over anything Oliver did while brainwashed or whatever would also be OOC.

Edited April 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Oh, Andy's coming up again, definitely. I just don't want Oliver to knowingly be involved in his death. I really don't want him unknowingly involved, either. 

I've figured out that what I want & what the show gives me don't always play well together in the sandbox. Also what I theorize from the spoilers as possible plot & character twists do not always line up with what I want for the characters either. Sometimes I wish I could shut of the logical & investigative part of my brain and just appreciate the spoilers from an emotional level. How much more excited I might be, if I wasn't constantly trying to figure out how or why. Damn MG and his trolly plotty ways. Every little tidbit or spoiler feels like some mental rubix cube I need to solve. When it just might be a simple as it seems. Its like the upcoming sex scene. I have given up trying to figure out how is all comes to pass and am just hoping its as amazing as people seem to make it be. I am relinquishing all speculation on it and just anxiously awaiting Weds night.

[dtissagirl]

Just now in the Calgary Expo panel, Stephen said the most disappointing thing he thinks Oliver has ever done is in 321. Maybe this is related to the rift with Diggle?

[apinknightmare]

Just now in the Calgary Expo panel, Stephen said the most disappointing thing he thinks Oliver has ever done is in 321. Maybe this is related to the rift with Diggle?

 

Possibly. 

 

Yikes. But if Evil!Oliver does it and he's not in his right mind...ugh. Maybe whatever it is has lasting effects? Don't even want to think about it.

Edited April 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Just now in the Calgary Expo panel, Stephen said the most disappointing thing he thinks Oliver has ever done is in 321. Maybe this is related to the rift with Diggle?

Maybe he's talking about evil!Oliver??? Or the rift between Digg/Oliver. Any one of those is plausible. Maybe both

[tarotx]

Oliver is maybe not going to know he's brainwashed nor act like he is brainwashed? And perhaps he goes after Lyla or baby Sara? It would be hard to trust your friend for hurting your family even under a drug or brainwashing.

And Maybe the LOA and the Alpha and Omega virus could be linked? Genocide seems to be a thing Ra wanted for a time in the Comics? And he was going to do it with a virus Or so I was told.

Maybe Ra needs Oliver to unleash the virus. I don't know how or why but I can think of a reason later :p

[kismet]

After Morena's article post in spoilers section, I am calling it now. Roy Harper will come back and break Thea's crazy. They will find closure, because he will return her to the land of living & not so crazy. Now, the writers may chose to still do crazy stuff in the future with Thea's character. But whatever immediate ill effects from the LP are, Roy will end those. Once again, TA & the audience will have to owe RH a thank you for saving both the Queens this season.

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Roy breaks Thea from her post-LP crazy and Felicity breaks Oliver from his LoA evilness? 

 

Seems like that's the kind of parallel they love, and it goes along with the title.

[Soulfire]

After Morena's article post in spoilers section, I am calling it now. Roy Harper will come back and break Thea's crazy. They will find closure, because he will return her to the land of living & not so crazy. Now, the writers may chose to still do crazy stuff in the future with Thea's character. But whatever immediate ill effects from the LP are, Roy will end those. Once again, TA & the audience will have to owe RH a thank you for saving both the Queens this season.

 

That would parallel nicely with Felicity potentially being the one breaking through to Oliver. 

[tarotx]

My sister just ask if it's possible that Oliver used A fake id or something and does stuff that leds some to think Andy did something Oliver actually did?

I still don't know Why Diggle couldn't forgive that though?

[Carrie Ann]

Aside from Andy, or Evil!Oliver doing something that Regular!Oliver would never do (and I agree, Diggle staying mad about something Oliver does under the influence seems OOC), it's possible that Oliver will involve Lyla in something that puts her in danger or in a compromised position, maybe. Another option is if Oliver is basically running a con on Ra's, and doesn't tell Dig (especially if he DOES tell Felicity, then Dig could feel hurt by both of them). 

[tarotx]

I'm glad Roy and Thea have closure. I like your guy's ideas.

[apinknightmare]

Hopefully Felicity and Thea go on a road trip TO Roy. Him coming back to Starling is a move I cannot abide. 

[jay741982]

I wonder if Roy breaks Thea from her post-LP crazy and Felicity breaks Oliver from his LoA evilness? 

 

Seems like that's the kind of parallel they love, and it goes along with the title.

Is this for Episode 22? I would love to see Roy and Felicity Break the Queens that they love out of their crazy

[Starfish35]

That's probably where that phone that Felicity gave Roy is going to come back into play.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe he's talking about evil!Oliver??? Or the rift between Digg/Oliver. Any one of those is plausible. Maybe both

Yeah, I was thinking Evil!Oliver does something -----> Diggle's trust is broken.

I'm still betting it's Oliver leading whoever the LoA sends after Nyssa, so maybe there's an actual Oliver vs. Diggle fight? I mean, from an evil POV, taking Dig out first is kind of smart because the other backup is Laurel.

Edit: in that picture with BamBam and Simon Burnett [the stunt double] that Stephen posted yesterday, Simon's wearing Oliver's LoA outfit under his coat:

https://mobile.twitter.com/amellywood/status/589258408320114689

So I'm guessing Al Saheem is a thing that's still going in the finale. Hopefully FOR THE LAST TIME EVER.

Edited April 18, 2015 by dancingnancy

[kismet]

Is this for Episode 22? I would love to see Roy and Felicity Break the Queens that they love out of their crazy

YES. Roy is coming back for May 6, "This is your sword". Gotta say looking forward to it!

[jay741982]

YES. Roy is coming back for May 6, "This is your sword". Gotta say looking forward to it!

Me too! I wonder if they will do similar scenes to end of season 6 of BTVS when Xander stopped Willow from destroying the world?

[dtissagirl]

Aside from Andy, or Evil!Oliver doing something that Regular!Oliver would never do (and I agree, Diggle staying mad about something Oliver does under the influence seems OOC), it's possible that Oliver will involve Lyla in something that puts her in danger or in a compromised position, maybe. Another option is if Oliver is basically running a con on Ra's, and doesn't tell Dig (especially if he DOES tell Felicity, then Dig could feel hurt by both of them).

Hmmm. What if Oliver is conning Ra's, and has to prove his allegiance? Going after Diggle would do it. And I could see Oliver's rationale being Dig's the one who can take it. And then it backfiring on him when Dig obviously feels betrayed.

[nksarmi]

If Oliver kills Lyla and leaves Diggle a single dad - I can see that being irreparable damage brainwashing or not.  And frankly, this seems very possible to me.  Oliver would carry the guilt every time he looked at Diggle and even if Diggle "understood" - it would still be a matter of someone you thought you could trust with your life turned around and hurt you like no one else could.  You can forgive that, but the relationship is forever altered.

 

And I could see all of this happening because can we have happy couples on Arrow? Hell no and we sure can't have more than one at a time!  You want olicity sex?  Fine, we kill Diggle's wife.

[Chaser]

All signs point to Oliver and Diggle conflict. I'm wondering if its related to the Maseo/Diggle scene? Per the tweets, this episode hints at the dark days. They also take about the great Diggle and Oliver scenes. Maseo may warn Diggle that Oliver won't be the same and in 3x21, he is proven right. I can see Ra's setting up 3x21 as a test for Oliver and for Oliver to pass he needs to betray Diggle. That would be really disappointing.

[foreverevolving]

Yeah, I was thinking Evil!Oliver does something -----> Diggle's trust is broken.

I'm still betting it's Oliver leading whoever the LoA sends after Nyssa, so maybe there's an actual Oliver vs. Diggle fight? I mean, from an evil POV, taking Dig out first is kind of smart because the other backup is Laurel.

Edit: in that picture with BamBam and Simon Burnett [the stunt double] that Stephen posted yesterday, Simon's wearing Oliver's LoA outfit under his coat:

https://mobile.twitter.com/amellywood/status/589258408320114689

So I'm guessing Al Saheem is a thing that's still going in the finale. Hopefully FOR THE LAST TIME EVER.

 

doesn't mean he's playing Oliver, I would imagine they use the stunt team (even the ones who sub for the actors) for fight scenes where the actors face are shown. for example, maybe in that scene it is Oliver in civil clothing fighting someone who is from the league. for that they will need Stephen to be doing most of the stunts (and if they are pretty basic fight stuff I do believe Stephen tends to do that- as we we saw in a behind the scene vid for 3x03) while his stunt double is free to be part of the crowd.

could be an Oliver Queen Vs. al sheem (sp) vision fight Oliver has, or a dream. similar to the Arrow vs Oliver Queen scene in the premiere.