Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

If Quentin were serious about going after the Arrow, why wouldn't he use Felicity, one way or another? It is interesting that Felicity isn't under arrest.Unless her complicity is too tied up in Lance's complicity for him to feel comfortable going after her? I hope the show addresses addresses the issue at least a little. 

 

It's interesting that while yeah, there's the murdering going on, even without that everyone's doing illegal things. Quentin's whole deal was that he knew vigilantism was wrong and he was wrong to get into bed with the Arrow, and yet he knows the identities of THREE people involved and Oliver's the only one he's going after/shooting to kill? I'd take this more seriously if he at least arrested Roy, Felicity and Laurel, even if he didn't make anything stick there.

[Sunshine]

MG called 18 and 20 game changing much earlier in the season - so Public Enemy is the first part of that right? Episode 18?

 

Ok it seems to me that he exaggerates a lot because that "battle" between Oliver and Ray was so NOT epic. But I have been nervous about his whole "the show will never be the same" stuff since I first heard it.  I am also nervous about the "we are doing stuff no show runners in their right mind would do" that I heard earlier this season. This of course is largely while I'm in the spoilers thread - to be prepared lol.

 

With that said - what could change the show forever?

 

- Quentin's death? On a very minor scale, I can see this would change things because they would no longer have a connection to the police.

- Team Arrow breaks up OR Felicity/Diggle leaves it.  But spoilers don't indicate this is the case.

- We learn that Oliver is still working for Amanda Waller (I've been wondering about this one for awhile personally).

- Oliver leaves to become Ra's and everyone else is blackmailed into working for Waller.

- Waller saves them all from the cops and now they have to work for her.  So yea, pretty much any scenario that means Team Arrow is now working for ARGUS.

- The introduction of magic on the show (which they have implied they will do/have done with the LP) has some impact I cannot presently predict.

- Everyone follows Oliver in joining LoA (totally not believable).

 

I'm putting money on next season Team Arrow works for ARGUS.

3.18 Game Changer

3.19 Game Changer

3.20 Pivotal

 

If Roy leaves, dies, goes to prison that changes the show and we have to suffer through Buckles as major "partner".

If Quentin finds out Arrow's alter ego that changes the show. All regulars will be in the know.  Do we know if PB has been filming?  I know he's in 3.19 & F1.19.  Do we have anything after that?

Arrow asks ATOM for help in 3.19.  Sort of superhero team up I guess.  Changes the show.

If Oliver joins Ra's LOA for major number of episodes that changes the show.

Lyla just quit ARGUS.  Diggle only helped out because of her.  No SS because of movie.  I would think that would rule out ARGUS in S4.

H.I.V.E. is supposed to be major player in S4.

Somewhere in all this mess it looks like Thea is getting a mask.  This changes the show so the Halloween tradition lives on.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Sunshine

[nksarmi]

I can't see how Oliver joining LoA temporarily changes the show forever.  I guess - given MG's history of epic exaggeration - it could be as simple as someone leaving the show or someone else becoming a hero.

[apinknightmare]

I don't know - I guess Oliver being outted could be a big deal, but it feels like everyone on the show knows (or should know).  And what would Oliver outted mean for next season?  I don't expect he will be part of LoA very long (or at least I hope note). So how does an outted Oliver come back to SC and function as the Arrow?  Or is he going to give it up when he returns?  And will we EVER get to see Oliver be both Oliver Queen and Green Arrow?  Ugh, I don't know - I just don't like this option.

 

I don't know, but Quentin's going to find out that Oliver is the Arrow this ep, since this is when Ra's kidnaps him. I wonder if this is also the ep when he makes his way down to the foundry? That could blow up the show - they wouldn't have that home base anymore. It's one thing when every villain from here to kingdom come knows where your hideout is, but another when the cops do. That could be it. Not sure Oliver would be able to come back to Starling -that's where I'm scratching my head, because what, is everyone just going to up and relocate? Is Oliver going to go on the run next season while the others stay in town and fight crime? No thank you. Maybe it is just as simple as the foundry being located by law enforcement and Quentin finding out that Oliver is the Arrow. 

 

 

I don't mean to say anything bad about Will Smith because he seems like a great guy, but I have wondered if the reason why Deadshot can't be on Arrow is because Will Smith is too big to play a character that someone else is currently playing and can be compared to?  If that is the case, they might let Arrow keep Waller and Argus but not suicide squad.

 

Not sure - they also killed off Bronze Tiger in the comics, so it seems like a movie thing, not a specific character thing. I think maybe Waller's storyline is going to be tied up this year, and next year Oliver's going to get in with HIVE or get in with Lt. Shreive (unless he got killed off and/or something happened with his storyline and I missed it - I don't pay too close attention to flashbacks, haha).

[JenMD]

MG called 18 and 20 game changing much earlier in the season - so Public Enemy is the first part of that right? Episode 18?

 

18 and 19 are the "game changers".  20 was described as "pivotal" by MG and "the most outrageous episode we've ever done" by SA (quotes from the spoiler only thread).  I put no stock in MG's opinions at this point and SA loves the big stunt eps so I don't know what to think about that one since MG seems stuck on how emotional it is. 

[Chaser]

SA also tends to favor the more emotional Oliver and Felicity scenes and since he has talked up the Olicity in 3.20, I'm leaning towards it being more emotional.

 

I don't have much faith in Diggle and Felicity not being sidelined in these next few episodes. And what we will see of Felicity in the next couple episodes, I'm just not looking too.

[calliope1975]

MG needs a thesaurus. Everything can't be a game changer. At this point, Oliver waking up in the morning is a pivotal game changer. Felicity turning on a computer - game changer. Diggle holds Sara - pivotal. I can't even call Ray a game changer because Barry came before him. Flying's new, but Barry's introduction already changed that game. 

[AyChihuahua]

Excuse me, but Oliver waking up in the morning is EPIC, not game-changing.

 

A great Olicity scene wouldn't be outrageous, which is what SA said, so there's probably both some stupid twist and an Olicity scene.  

 

Has anything in the show (not comics) indicated the Pit can actually raise the dead?  Or that it turns people crazy (again, show, not comics)?

[Genki]

I feel like 3.18 is going to have the Police in the foundry and then Team Arrow blowing it up.

 

3.19 can have Laurel destroying evidence on behalf of TA (This is the one where she goes to great lengths for Oliver right?), plus there is all the Palmer Pimping going on.

 

I still feel/hope that Roy is the one arrested somehow. Maybe the prison is mixed and he and Helena can break out together.

 

MG is a terrible Storyteller and goes for the "cool" or fun (for him), he needs a non comic co-producer to reign in his more comic book-y tendencies and help support actual organic storytelling. I think MG has to have some good ideas but he shouldn't have ultimate control. I remember his quote about writing what the audience needs rather than wants, I think he needs to flip it around for himself sometimes.

[Ariah]

So, if we have two subsequent game changers... shouldn't the show just get back to it's original setup?...

[dtissagirl]

I find it hilarious that for Palmer to throw Felicity on the floor, they needed the stunt doubles for both actors, and you can clearly see their faces. I didn't even watch in slow-mo.

 

Quentin going after the Arrow could be solved by Laurel threatening to expose his own involvement with Team Arrow. He's as much an accessory as she is. There are phone records, and police files he gave the Team. What's more important for Quentin? Arrest Oliver, or disgrace both the Police Department, and the DA's office of a city under attack?

 

This storyline is so dumb.

[lexicon]

I find it hilarious that for Palmer to throw Felicity on the floor, they needed the stunt doubles for both actors, and you can clearly see their faces. I didn't even watch in slow-mo.

 

Quentin going after the Arrow could be solved by Laurel threatening to expose his own involvement with Team Arrow. He's as much an accessory as she is. There are phone records, and police files he gave the Team. What's more important for Quentin? Arrest Oliver, or disgrace both the Police Department, and the DA's office of a city under attack?

 

This storyline is so dumb.

 

My real question is he just going after the Arrow or are all vigilantes fair game? He knows where to find the Black Canary and Arsenal and he knows that Felicity works with the Arrow, hell the big old hypocrite worked with the Arrow himself until recently, so why all the ire suddenly directed at the Arrow?

 

Poor Quentin.Yet another character made to behave like an idiot for plot reasons  

[jay741982]

So that's two episodes in a row (3.18/3.19) the show is going to DiD Felicity so that Ray can save her? Ugh.

Well yeah that's how Ray likes his women. He saves them not them doing it themselves

[apinknightmare]

Has anything in the show (not comics) indicated the Pit can actually raise the dead?  Or that it turns people crazy (again, show, not comics)?

 

No, but knowing the way things go on this show, we probably won't find out what this version of the LP can do until it's already been done to someone.

[dtissagirl]

It doesn't make anything less dumb, but I can see Oliver making a deal with Quentin to be the only one arrested, because he IS a self-sacrificing idiot. And I can see Quentin agreeing because plot. Well, because as mad as Quentin is with Laurel, I don't think he wants her to go to prison.

 

I still believe Oliver's in prison at least for a part of 319 [he's sidelined], and I think Laurel's gonna be the one to figure out how to get him out. Or maybe to break him out? I keep going back and forth on the jet in 320 -- are they all fugitives, or are they going to Nanda Parbat to LP someone?

Edited March 30, 2015 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

I still believe Oliver's in prison at least for a part of 319 [he's sidelined], and I think Laurel's gonna be the one to figure out how to get him out. Or maybe to break him out? I keep going back and forth on the jet in 320 -- are they all fugitives, or are they going to Nanda Parbat to LP someone?

 

I think Laurel's going to break him out (or let him out, I guess), and that's why he's going to be sidelined in 3x19 - why Felicity's going to insist he stay hidden, because he broke (or was broken) out of jail. 

[dtissagirl]

I wonder where the hell is Oliver gonna go to lay low. Did they get surprise money for an extra set? :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

It's interesting that while yeah, there's the murdering going on, even without that everyone's doing illegal things. Quentin's whole deal was that he knew vigilantism was wrong and he was wrong to get into bed with the Arrow, and yet he knows the identities of THREE people involved and Oliver's the only one he's going after/shooting to kill? I'd take this more seriously if he at least arrested Roy, Felicity and Laurel, even if he didn't make anything stick there.

 

And ordering police to "shoot to kill"? Quentin, that blonde masked woman with the shiny buckles running with the Arrow is your daughter. I know you're mad at her, justifiably so, but do you really want your men to shoot your daughter (I just heard some people yell, "Hell, yeah!"). Point is, the show is making totally unreasonable here. And Quentin, for all his faults, has been a pretty fair and level-headed guy (if I remember correctly, I dunno, it's been months since he's had a decent exposure on the show). So I'm just going to put him in the same box I've put Oliver, Diggle and Felicity in whenever they act in ways inconsistent with how they've been written in the past.

[AyChihuahua]

 

So I'm just going to put him in the same box I've put Oliver, Diggle and Felicity in whenever they act in ways inconsistent with how they've been written in the past.

For how long, though?  At what point is this just how they are now?  I see zero reason to think S4 will be any better, when the whole writing staff will be the same.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

I wonder where the hell is Oliver gonna go to lay low. Did they get surprise money for an extra set? :)

 

Felicity's, because no one would absolutely think to find him there ;) What? Everything is so unbelievable anyway.

[Morrigan2575]

Just out of curiosity how do we know Oliver is arrested? Was there a spoiler or just trying to figure the pictures out?

I only ask because I remember the photo of Quentin arresting Roy dressed as Arrow (I think) and then there was a photo of Colton's stunt double in a jump suit behind bars which made it look like Roy is in jail (or maybe dead, who knows) in 319.

I know there were pictures of SA with bars behind him but I thought we decided those were from the foundry?

[apinknightmare]

Just out of curiosity how do we know Oliver is arrested? Was there a spoiler or just trying to figure the pictures out?

I only ask because I remember the photo of Quentin arresting Roy dressed as Arrow (I think) and then there was a photo of Colton's stunt double in a jump suit behind bars which made it look like Roy is in jail (or maybe dead, who knows) in 319.

I know there were pictures of SA with bars behind him but I thought we decided those were from the foundry?

 

I think he's taken into custody only because of the pics with Diggle and Roy (and another with Felicity) in what looks to be an interrogation room in the BTS stills for 3x18. It could be someone else for sure. I'm not sure how Roy in the Arrow suit would figure in if that happened, unless it's a rehash of S1 where Oliver's taken in and Arrow is still out running around. 

[statsgirl]

Felicity's, because no one would absolutely think to find him there ;) What? Everything is so unbelievable anyway.

I think I might actually like that, which is a surprise to me given the spoilers we've been getting.

[DrSpaceman10]

Felicity's, because no one would absolutely think to find him there ;) What? Everything is so unbelievable anyway.

 

I had the exact same thought. If it's going to be unbelievable, it might as well be unbelievable in a good way.

[Morrigan2575]

I think he's taken into custody only because of the pics with Diggle and Roy (and another with Felicity) in what looks to be an interrogation room in the BTS stills for 3x18. It could be someone else for sure. I'm not sure how Roy in the Arrow suit would figure in if that happened, unless it's a rehash of S1 where Oliver's taken in and Arrow is still out running around.

thanks, I'm trying to get a handle on all the spoilers and spec but there's been a lot of discussion, didn't know if I missed something

[Carrie Ann]

I had been thinking about a cohabitation situation when MG kept teasing this Thea/Felicity thing. But unless the whole team is hiding out in a new location together, yeah, it defies logic that Oliver and/or Thea would stay with Felicity or vice versa. Maybe they'll all move in with Ray for an episode.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[DrSpaceman10]

I wonder if 3x18 might be the last time we see Oliver in the Arrow costume for a while. SA did post a picture on his Facebook featuring Oliver, Roy, Laurel in costume with a caption about capturing things for the last time.

 

If Oliver has to lay low in 3x19, I think it could mean lay low as in he can't go out and be the Arrow. Maybe Oliver will try being Oliver Queen instead of the Arrow in 3.19, at least before he has to go off to the LOA. 

[apinknightmare]

If Oliver has to lay low in 3x19, I think it could mean lay low as in he can't go out and be the Arrow. Maybe Oliver will try being Oliver Queen instead of the Arrow in 3.19, at least before he has to go off to the LOA. 

 

Since Ra's is kidnapping Quentin this week, he must tell him that Oliver is the Arrow. I think he's got to lay low because he's wanted as Oliver Queen and as the Arrow. I would be legit surprised if Ra's doesn't tell Quentin - otherwise what's the point of kidnapping him? Really, what's the point of kidnapping him at all, since he could just pull a Slade and release Oliver's name. So complicated with these villains.

[SmallScreenDiva]

For how long, though?  At what point is this just how they are now?  I see zero reason to think S4 will be any better, when the whole writing staff will be the same.  

 

It really depends on what's going to happen during the remainder of the season. Then I'm going to pull them out and take another look at the entire show and the characters and decide from there whether I'm coming back next year.

 

On topic: I'm so confused now. I thought Roy was getting arrested per the spoiler pics. But he's in that photo with Diggle. Is this the ep where Laurel is supposed to go far for Oliver or somesuch? Maybe she accepts the blame for something, anything (for the first time in her life)? I am kinda leaning toward Oliver doing a Tony Stark.

[apinknightmare]

On topic: I'm so confused now. I thought Roy was getting arrested per the spoiler pics. But he's in that photo with Diggle. Is this the ep where Laurel is supposed to go far for Oliver or somesuch? 

 

 

I think she's supposed to go far for him in 3x19. 

 

Seems to me like the whole pursuit of the Arrow by the SCPD has to be tied up soon because I can't imagine that Quentin would take off to Central City while the Arrow's still on the loose? 

[calliope1975]

I agree with those who think this entire manhunt plot is stupid. Quentin is, at the least, an accessory. Will he be ordering himself arrested as well? Is he going to have a change of heart because he and Ra's have a chat? I hope Joe West schools him on what's what and then Quentin can tell Joe keeping secrets from loved ones is a terrible idea.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I hope Joe West schools him on what's what and then Quentin can tell Joe keeping secrets from loved ones is a terrible idea.

Genius.  That is basically Joe's only flaw, so then he can be more or less perfect.

 

Yes, I love Jesse L. Martin.  Kind of can't believe they got him for a CW show.

[Chaser]

Felicity would have to be out of the hospital if this is the episode where the Foundry is blown up. There is that shot of her with Oliver and Diggle coming down the stairs. Plus the shot in the police station (hopefully that's the police station). Since the episode picks up right at the attack, she must leave Ray there.

[dtissagirl]

My guess is Quentin in the Arrow cave is 318, the cave blowing up is 319.

[BkWurm1]

If Oliver goes public or is forced to go public, the only way he can exist is if he somehow gets pardoned.  If he does some kind of huge save for the city AGAIN, maybe he'd have the right public outcry to make it happen.  I suspect if they go this way they will drag out that resolution though.  Even if he shakes the Ra's issue he's going to have to be on the run, right?

[apinknightmare]

Since MG mentioned the Omega virus in a tweet right about the time that he tweeted that he finished 3x23, I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver managed to save the city from the virus, and got a pardon that way. Or something.

[dtissagirl]

Do we know what the Omega virus does? I keep confusing it with the mind-controlling drug Malcolm used on Thea.

[Hook75]

Guggenheim says "The show will never be the same" twice.

 

 

When he says it, I fear the worse

[apinknightmare]

Do we know what the Omega virus does? I keep confusing it with the mind-controlling drug Malcolm used on Thea.

 

Nope, no idea.

[Menrva]

Maybe the Omega virus unleashes a zombie apocalypse. Zombies are still popular, right?

 

But that would definitely keep me from tuning in next season. I hate zombies. They freak me out. And they're not even real.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Menrva

[apinknightmare]

Maybe the Omega virus unleashes a zombie apocalypse. Zombies are still popular, right?

 

Well, Stephen did tweet (or Facebook, I can't remember) that he felt like he was on the Walking Dead set, so...

[Menrva]

Well, Stephen did tweet (or Facebook, I can't remember) that he felt like he was on the Walking Dead set, so...

Oh crap. I was kind of kidding. :(

[Morrigan2575]

Haha, well iZombie is a DC product...

[blixie]

I guess Starling got some taco meat from the army.

[kismet]

I wonder where the hell is Oliver gonna go to lay low. Did they get surprise money for an extra set? :)

He's just gonna be roaming around SC in a bad wig & ball cap. At this point and epic and game-changing show would be just that. Oliver walking aimlessly around SC doing some errands. Would love to see him just wake up one morning and having coffee & bagel, TA could call him in and he'd be like nah gonna catch up on some reading. The police can take care of it. 

[kismet]

@nksarmi - I don't think we'll get to keep Waller because she is being played by Viola Davis in the movie, so if the will smith standard applies for deadshot, I think the same will hold for Waller & all of argus being on hiatus from the show for awhile.

 

So do we know the sequencing of the chase yet? I wonder if the shoot to kill comes after the Ras reveal and then its to capture all the fake vigilantes not just the Arrow? Honestly, the closest the police have ever come to capturing the Arrow is when LL tricked him or even Ray tricked him. SO this whole manhunt is just a waste of resources. All they have to do is set-up a trap. But I guess now that money-bags Ray has changed his mind maybe they can't think about how to best capture the arrow. Manhunts never really work in real life. You need to set-up the chase, but then it always comes down to waiting out the criminal or luring them out.

 

I can't see Oliver revealing himself as the arrow. And I can't see SCPD having a warrant out for Oliver Queen. So as much as MG tells me the show will never be the same, it bears repeating that he has probably the worst judgment of fan response, so I'll withhold my opinion of how epicly changed the game is until 9p weds night.

[Genki]

Well Malcolm doesn't need to stay low... Maybe Oliver should fake his death and then he can walk around Starling City as he pleases.

Not sure I'm on board with OQ being outed as the Arrow to the general public.

[kismet]

^^^^ Maybe Laurel will help Oliver fake his or the arrow's death and that will be the big thing she does. It would be dark, but they could steal a body from a morgue and put in arrow gear and pretend its the arrow. Not great, but its been done on other shows.

[jay741982]

Felicity's, because no one would absolutely think to find him there ;) What? Everything is so unbelievable anyway.

Ugh I want him at Felicitys only to lead to sexy times :)

[BkWurm1]

I hate the idea that Oliver would deliberately out himself as the Arrow. They did it on Smallville and it made no sense then either. He's not much good as a superhero if everyone is just following him around and watching what he's doing. That said, I'm pretty sure his identity getting out there happened in the comic so, yeah, it could happen. I'll take consolation that he at least didn't want people to know.