Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

So, if 3x20 all takes place in Nanda Parbat, does this mean A.T.O.M. goes with them?

Good question.  He's supposed to be in every episode from 15 on (I believe) so I guess?  Or SA is exaggerating...he's not very good with math ;-)

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

Maybe the change will be the shift to 'ensemble'? Arrow&co.? I'd prefer him being Ra's al Ghul at this point.

These Deadshot flashback maybe are in the Suicide Squad episode. Don't they show Dig's brother?

Maybe it's not the entire episode 20 that takes place in Nanda Parbat, but just those scenes he was referring to?

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, maybe they are definitively shifting it to more of an ensemble Justice League type of things. As much as I'd hate that, I think I'd hate powers even more. 

 

And Stephen kind of somewhat confirmed that Thea is becoming Speedy, so I'm glad she's going to be in on the action.

[Sunshine]

3.01, 3.02, 3.03,  3.05, 3.07, 3.09, (6)

3.10, 3.11, 3.12, 3.15 (4)

3.16-3.23 (8)

 

Looks like RP should be in all episodes from here out. Yay! (NOT)  Don't know if SA is exaggerating or not.  Maybe he just means his role although isn't he skulking around the ICU in 3.20 or was that 3.19? 

 

ETA:  It might make some sense if it's kind of Justice League if they start showing Oliver with a life outside the Foundry.  Meanwhile BC & crew are fighting crime and we introduce someone new.  Or someone from the new spin-off is in town to help.  Isn't that part of the reason for the new spin-off...to give those characters somewhere to go without losing the actors because they got another job?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Sunshine

[Velocity23]

Ray is in hospital in 3x18. I am just wondering if the 18 episodes means also the ones on Flash.

[kismet]

Maybe they are using RP's jet to get to Nanda Parbat. He greets them at the jet pad and sends them off. That way he could be in the show, but not in NP. If the whole team arrow is in NP, somebody has to stay around to defend SC. But then again, the EPs probably want him in NP too because he needs to outshine TA & OQ in every way apparently this season.

[Chaser]

The hospital scenes with Oliver are 3x20/ Ray is 3x18.

 

If they count the Flash episode, then Ray could miss 3x20. It would't surprise me because I don't know why he would be there. He may have an up to number of episodes instead of a guaranteed number that way they can adjust as they go (fan reaction, storyline). Of course, I have no idea how this stuff works.

[kismet]

I hope the way they choose to fundamentally change the show does not ruin it. So far all of their gamechangers and changes they introduced this season have ruined a good portion of the show and characters. I hope that they fix it & make it better - not make it a show that I don't care to watch. So far the stuff from Paley & recent clips have not been promising that they are heading in the correct direction. I feel like Im holding onto scraps of possible goodness from the actors interviews.

[Sunshine]

Yeah, I wondered if Flash 1.18 was one of his contracted episodes which would allow him to miss an Arrow episode.  When MG said ATOM wasn't in 3.16 I thought he was missing from that episode but MG confirmed Ray is in 3.16.

[looptab]

Ray wasn't in 312 :)

[kismet]

The hospital scenes with Oliver are 3x20/ Ray is 3x18.

 

If they count the Flash episode, then Ray could miss 3x20. It would't surprise me because I don't know why he would be there. He may have an up to number of episodes instead of a guaranteed number that way they can adjust as they go (fan reaction, storyline). Of course, I have no idea how this stuff works.

So if all of 20 takes place in Nanda Parbat. Does that indicate that the hospital scenes w/ OQ are not gonna be real? Are they part of a hallucination, dream or flashback? That would put a whole new spin on it. I can't tell which way they are heading with OQ's destiny this season in regards to his relationship w/ Ras.

[Chaser]

So if all of 20 takes place in Nanda Parbat. Does that indicate that the hospital scenes w/ OQ are not gonna be real? Are they part of a hallucination, dream or flashback? That would put a whole new spin on it. I can't tell which way they are heading with OQ's destiny this season in regards to his relationship w/ Ras.

I could be wrong about the hospital scenes being in 3x20, but I'm pretty sure thats when they were filming. Weren't the 'Long Live Team Arrow' shots during 3x20 filming too? Those were in the Foundry. Assuming the present all takes place in Nanda that would lead credence to the theory of Roy dying/leaving; One last shot in the cave. I could see the hospital scenes being flashbacks, maybe start the episode that way and then go to Oliver on the plane remembering.

[Sunshine]

Ray wasn't in 312 :)

I thought it was only 2 episodes in a row.  Maybe it was 3.12-3.13 and in 3.14?  I haven't enjoyed this season very much so I haven't rewatched much.  My brain is a little fuzzy.

 

I haven't gotten the impression (from SA or MG) that Oliver is going to be accepting Ra's offer. Quite the opposite in fact. I think that's why hell is reigning down and they go to Nanda Parbat to try to stop it.  I believe SA's tweet was something about "balls to the wall". 

Edited March 16, 2015 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, maybe they are definitively shifting it to more of an ensemble Justice League type of things. As much as I'd hate that, I think I'd hate powers even more. 

 

And Stephen kind of somewhat confirmed that Thea is becoming Speedy, so I'm glad she's going to be in on the action.

I don't see them moving Arrow to a Justice League style show when they're creating a justice league style show in the spin-off.

[apinknightmare]

Okay not a Justice League per se, but an ensemble, which is what the OP suggested and I was agreeing with.

[jay741982]

Mr. Amell is being the biggest tease. Apparently he signed the 3.09 script (the scene before Oliver left to fight Ra's) for a fan, and behind it he wrote "Remember 3.20". I really really need to watch episode 3.20 now. JFC

Maybe Oliver tells Felicity about her being the last person he saw before "Death"?

[Morrigan2575]

Okay not a Justice League per se, but an ensemble, which is what the OP suggested and I was agreeing 

 

Actually, that's what I'm disagreeing with, I don't think they'll have two ensemble shows.  I think they'll keep with Flash being the lighter more fantastical hero's journey, Arrow being the more depressing, gritty (sadly realistic gets tossed out the window) hero's journey and the new spin-off being a true team title.

 

I honestly don't even get how they'll work powers into this show when their first attempt at having a Meta on Arrow is to have Ray/ATOM fight him while Oliver plays sidekick or isn't even involved in that fight.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Okay not a Justice League per se, but an ensemble, which is what the OP suggested and I was agreeing with.

Well maybe since the foundry blew up season 4 won't be about them saving Starling, but on the run surviving because some big bad is after them? IDK Just thinking out loud sorta

[apinknightmare]

Actually, that's what I'm disagreeing with, I don't think they'll have two ensemble shows.  I think they'll keep with Flash being the lighter more fantastical hero's journey, Arrow being the more depressing, gritty (sadly realistic gets tossed out the window) hero's journey and the new spin-off being a true team title.

 

I honestly don't even get how they'll work powers into this show when their first attempt at having a Meta on Arrow is to have Ray/ATOM fight him while Oliver plays sidekick or isn't even involved in that fight.

 

They already have two ensemble shows - Arrow's not really about the Arrow anymore with all the new heroes coming up. So either they're going to embrace that and stop pretending it is about Oliver and his journey, or they're going to relegate the sidekicks to the background for action and plot-development purposes and focus on Oliver again. I think the second option is more likely than the first, but who knows with these people. 

 

I don't know how they'd incorporate powers either, but I don't really understand what "changing the show at a grassroots level" means if they're not changing something fundamental about it. The two most fundamental things I can think of is that there are no powers and it is about Oliver. And that he's a man on a redemption arc, so...maybe he's going to go bad for awhile, although...please no. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Carrie Ann]

I wouldn't give any thought to the show turning into a "true" ensemble--i.e., no lead character, equal focus rotated among the cast--except for a nagging feeling that it's possible SA doesn't want to be the solo lead anymore. I still don't give that much of a chance, because I don't think the network would be pleased at all to receive that kind of pitch--to actually change the show at that level--and I frankly don't think they'd let him get out of it that easily.

 

So I'd be more inclined to agree that for next season at least, the team may be traveling for missions, instead of working in Starling. The only thing that doesn't make sense about that is how you keep the whole cast relevant (particularly PB) with that kind of change.

 

And powers...yeah. They're obviously going there, LL will obviously get a real Canary Cry, and I think it's all going to be a mistake. I just don't see how you keep Oliver relevant when he's fighting metahumans alongside other metahumans every week, but okay, Show.

[Morrigan2575]

I wouldn't give any thought to the show turning into a "true" ensemble--i.e., no lead character, equal focus rotated among the cast--except for a nagging feeling that it's possible SA doesn't want to be the solo lead anymore. I still don't give that much of a chance, because I don't think the network would be pleased at all to receive that kind of pitch--to actually change the show at that level--and I frankly don't think they'd let him get out of it that easily.

 

I don't think he does, he just gave an interview talking about his very light schedule for 310-312 and he wasn't happy/thankful/yay I don't want to be the lead anymore.  His comments were the exact opposite, IMO.  

[catrox14]

I'm starting to wonder if they are going to reset ERRYTHING, because SA said everything fundamentally changes soooo....

 

Crack theory of the day:

 

Nothing that has happened in the 2.5 years actually happened the way we think it has or at all. 

 

--Oliver has been in Nanda Parbat this whole time and has lost his mind from being LP'd for reasons. He went from the Island to Hong Kong to Nanda Parbat and the only time he was ever actually in SC is during the flashback when he's on the mission with Maseo and he sees Felicity in Robert's office.

--Moira dies off screen from an illness(maybe this the thing too close to SA's real life in that his mom had breast cancer so he nixed that)

--Because of being LP'd, Oliver has imagined a relationship with Felicity because of seeing her in that flashback episode. But in reality,  she's been working for Ray Palmer  because Ray bought QC. 

--Maybe after Moira died Malcolm told Thea that she is his daughter and he trains Thea to become Speedy. Together they go to NP and come across Oliver who's actually either working for Ra's or has become Ra's.

--Diggle never works as Oliver's bodyguard and he meets Oliver because Diggle is working for ARGUS and ARGUS is fighting the LoA and that's how Oliver meets Diggle during a fight. Maybe Diggle is the one that mortally injures Oliver. And that's how Oliver ends up in the LP. But because Oliver has gone crazy he hallucinates a friendship with Diggle OR

--ARGUS is sent to rescue Oliver from the LoA and that's how Diggle meets Oliver. Maybe Diggle  saves Oliver is the one that puts Oliver in the LP so Oliver hallucinates a friendship with Diggle.  

[Carrie Ann]

I don't think he does, he just gave an interview talking about his very light schedule for 310-312 and he wasn't happy/thankful/yay I don't want to be the lead anymore.  His comments were the exact opposite, IMO.

 

Cool, then I give that option an even slimmer chance. It was just all the "this show has never been just about one person," and ensemble talk this season, plus just knowing he's been really overworked, and just bought a house in Palm Springs...just made me think it was possible he'd been angling for a change in workload. And I'm sure some cast members would be happy to play the lead for awhile.

 

Other than that...unless The Flash really does do something that changes the timeline of the entire universe, and we see some weird changes to the Arrow universe too, I'm not sure how many options there are for grassroots changes.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[looptab]

I thought it was only 2 episodes in a row.  Maybe it was 3.12-3.13 and in 3.14?  I haven't enjoyed this season very much so I haven't rewatched much.  My brain is a little fuzzy.

 

I haven't gotten the impression (from SA or MG) that Oliver is going to be accepting Ra's offer. Quite the opposite in fact. I think that's why hell is reigning down and they go to Nanda Parbat to try to stop it.  I believe SA's tweet was something about "balls to the wall". 

Yeah, he was absent in 312,313, and 314. I can't blame you for not rewatching :)

 

I don't know, Stephen did say he'd like the season to be shorter, or having a mini-series of Suicide Squad, but ultimately I think he would never want to give up the lead role (and he'd be a little crazy if he wanted to). So, if it's not a shift to ensemble, I agree it could be either them out of Starling, or TIME TRAVEL. (Why??)

[Morena]

I'm starting to wonder if they are going to reset ERRYTHING, because SA said everything fundamentally changes soooo....

 

Crack theory of the day:

 

Nothing that has happened in the 2.5 years actually happened the way we think it has or at all. 

 

--Oliver has been in Nanda Parbat this whole time and has lost his mind from being LP'd for reasons. He went from the Island to Hong Kong to Nanda Parbat and the only time he was ever actually in SC is during the flashback when he's on the mission with Maseo and he sees Felicity in Robert's office.

--Moira dies off screen from an illness(maybe this the thing too close to SA's real life in that his mom had breast cancer so he nixed that)

--Because of being LP'd, Oliver has imagined a relationship with Felicity because of seeing her in that flashback episode. But in reality,  she's been working for Ray Palmer  because Ray bought QC. 

--Maybe after Moira died Malcolm told Thea that she is his daughter and he trains Thea to become Speedy. Together they go to NP and come across Oliver who's actually either working for Ra's or has become Ra's.

--Diggle never works as Oliver's bodyguard and he meets Oliver because Diggle is working for ARGUS and ARGUS is fighting the LoA and that's how Oliver meets Diggle during a fight. Maybe Diggle is the one that mortally injures Oliver. And that's how Oliver ends up in the LP. But because Oliver has gone crazy he hallucinates a friendship with Diggle OR

--ARGUS is sent to rescue Oliver from the LoA and that's how Diggle meets Oliver. Maybe Diggle  saves Oliver is the one that puts Oliver in the LP so Oliver hallucinates a friendship with Diggle.  

if that happened it would be a real game change. and that would allow Sara and Tommy's return

 

A question. Barry will not be at the wedding? He saved Lyla's life. Should be there. as guest of honor. moreover, why not he celebrate it?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morena

[apinknightmare]

Nothing would piss off an audience more than letting them know that everything they've invested in over the past three years isn't real.

[catrox14]

Yup. Sara could legit be resurrected as her real self because she's been with the LoA.  Now how we factor Laurel's turn into BC is a problem but I suppose Sara could have come back to SC just like she did and was protecting the city by herself because Oliver is not there. Then Nyssa comes back to get her. Maybe Sin tells Laurel she's dead and gives Laurel the jacket. So Laurel starts fashioning a way to "honor" Sara and that's why she's using a different weapon and she has a weird costume.  Not sure where Roy fits in.  But I'm sure I could come up with something LOL

[tarotx]

They could have AU flashbacks next year to deal with whatever happens on The Flash and the Spin off. Thus making the shows sperate but allowing for cross overs and connectivity. And that will allow for less Oliver centric flashbacks. Cutting SA's time in the flashbacks will cut his work load Without cutting off the fact that he's the lead.

[JenMD]

I don't think he does, he just gave an interview talking about his very light schedule for 310-312 and he wasn't happy/thankful/yay I don't want to be the lead anymore.  His comments were the exact opposite, IMO.  

Morrigan2575, I'd love to read what he had to say, do you remember which interview, by chance?

[Chaser]

To me the show shifting from being about one man's journey to becoming the Green Arrow, to a story of mutiple origin stories and insta-status heroes would be a change at a grassroots level. I always thought that the show would end with Oliver becoming the Green Arrow (much like Smallville ended with Clark as Superman). I think they are going to pull the trigger on that early given SA's comments about a BIG moment in the next trailer.

[catrox14]

Nothing would piss off an audience more than letting them know that everything they've invested in over the past three years isn't real.

 

Eh I dunno. A lot of mind fuckery happened on LOST and Alias that pissed people off at first but didn't cause them to jump ship completely. Doctor Who fucks with timelines and erases things that happened and resets stuff and people still come back to watch. It really depends on how it's written and what they are trying to do to reset things.  I'm not saying it will happen, that's why it's a crack theory. But I'm also saying....nothing they do surprises me since they killed off Sara.  But if they are trying to bring Sara back into the spinoff this is a way to do it.   And reset Arrow as the Justice League.

To me the show shifting from being about one man's journey to becoming the Green Arrow, to a story of mutiple origin stories and insta-status heroes would be a change at a grassroots level. I always thought that the show would end with Oliver becoming the Green Arrow (much like Smallville ended with Clark as Superman). I think they are going to pull the trigger on that early given SA's comments about a BIG moment in the next trailer.

 

SA said he knows when Oliver becomes the Green Arrow during the con yesterday.  So I think it's very likely it either happens now so they can reset to the Justice-ish League or they reset everything to redo Oliver's journey.  I'm not saying it's a great idea but I would not be a bit surprised if it does happen.  That might also explain why SA is getting fitted for a new suit.  I still have in the back of my head that Oliver becomes a villain.

[wonderwall]

To me the show shifting from being about one man's journey to becoming the Green Arrow, to a story of mutiple origin stories and insta-status heroes would be a change at a grassroots level. I always thought that the show would end with Oliver becoming the Green Arrow (much like Smallville ended with Clark as Superman). I think they are going to pull the trigger on that early given SA's comments about a BIG moment in the next trailer.

 

See, I don't believe this because Roy is already Arsenal, origin story complete. Laurel is already BC, origin story complete. Ray is already the Atom, origin story complete. Whose origin story has been yet to be told? Oliver's. He's still not Green Arrow yet and I feel like he still has a long way to go. 

 

I honestly don't think they'd change the structure of the show like that considering they're having much difficulty doing that right now. 

 

And I think the time travel thing is rather stupid which is why they won't do it. But if they do, I'm out. Leave time travel to the Flash and DW. 

 

Honestly, this show is still called Arrow. They're not gonna make it into the new JL. 

[Morrigan2575]

Morrigan2575, I'd love to read what he had to say, do you remember which interview, by chance?

Swamped at work today but I'll try to find it once i get home tonight.

 

I honestly don't think they'd change the structure of the show like that considering they're having much difficulty doing that right now.

 

Not to mention it's not MG/AJK/GB's call to make that kind of change.  The need both the network and the studio to sign off on it.   I just don't see the CW agreeing to that kind of change not to mention I don't see SA being OK with no longer being the lead in his own show.   I guess we'll find out by May.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

See, I don't believe this because Roy is already Arsenal, origin story complete. Laurel is already BC, origin story complete. Ray is already the Atom, origin story complete. Whose origin story has been yet to be told? Oliver's. He's still not Green Arrow yet and I feel like he still has a long way to go. 

 

I honestly don't think they'd change the structure of the show like that considering they're having much difficulty doing that right now. 

 

And I think the time travel thing is rather stupid which is why they won't do it. But if they do, I'm out. Leave time travel to the Flash and DW. 

 

Honestly, this show is still called Arrow. They're not gonna make it into the new JL. 

 

The show is still called Arrow...for now.  I was thinking about how they change the Arrow splash card every season. They changed it for the Flash crossovers. I don't think the show being called Arrow means they won't try to rebrand going to next season. I mean they've opened the door with crossovers and the 3 episodes that showed Oliver isn't needed to protect the city. 

 

I think SA is trying his best to be enthusiastic about the spinoff and the changes but IMO he's toeing the company line.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Morrigan2575, I'd love to read what he had to say, do you remember which interview, by chance?

 

 

Swamped at work today but I'll try to find it once i get home tonight.

 

This may be the interview that Morrigan2575 was talking about (very last paragraph):  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/8621-the-starling-city-times-news-and-media-about-arrow/?p=904600

 

Eh, not enjoying all of this talk about epic game changers and fundamentally changing the show at the most basic level.  I'm glad I've stopped watching because I fear that the show is going full speed ahead in a direction that I will not enjoy.  Resurrections, superpowers, maybe time travel?!  No thanks.

[dcinmb]

I'm curious about the haircut SA's getting on Tuesday. His hair's already pretty short so I'm wondering if they're going to shave his head. I sure hope not!

[apinknightmare]

Eh I dunno. A lot of mind fuckery happened on LOST and Alias that pissed people off at first but didn't cause them to jump ship completely. Doctor Who fucks with timelines and erases things that happened and resets stuff and people still come back to watch. It really depends on how it's written and what they are trying to do to reset things.  I'm not saying it will happen, that's why it's a crack theory. But I'm also saying....nothing they do surprises me since they killed off Sara.  But if they are trying to bring Sara back into the spinoff this is a way to do it.   And reset Arrow as the Justice League.

 

Mind fuckery is one thing, but changing the show so that all the relationships and character development people have invested three years in (whether those are good or bad relationships/character development) are non-existent? That's a really freaking terrible idea. They've had a lot of terrible ideas on this show, but that really takes the cake. Especially since it would mess up the spin-off timelines and what we've seen on The Flash. 

[dtissagirl]

I wouldn't mind the superpowers and time traveling if the people dealing with it episode to episode were first and foremost Oliver, Dig, and Felicity. I have no real attachment to Arrow being grounded, and I'm really super fed up with the depressingly emo tone this season's had. I think one of the reasons is because these guys think grounded MEANS depressingly emo. So, I'd be open to a more sci-fi/fantasy/comic book-y Arrow if it lightened up the tone. But it would still be dependant on which characters they decide are gonna move the A-plot... and if it's Laurel or Malcolm then I'll check out regardless of any change they make in tone or themes.

[JenMD]

This may be the interview that Morrigan2575 was talking about (very last paragraph):  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/8621-the-starling-city-times-news-and-media-about-arrow/?p=904600

 

 

Thanks, SonofaBiscuit and Morrigan2575 for the head's up.  I remember seeing it posted but hadn't gotten gotten a chance to read it.

 

I have to agree on the gamechanging, resetting, whatever it is they're doing.  It's just makes me not look forward to things instead of making me excited, which is probably what they're hoping for.

[Guest]

Ray could be going with them in 320 but a) I haven't seen any hint of BR on social media, from pictures, when they were filming scenes together and b) SA seems to have selective amnesia where Ray's concerned. LOL. He couldn't even remember his name properly once. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ray is back in SC doing his thing or whatever. Obviously I don't know what's gonna happen in the episodes leading up to this but I'd find it weird if Ray was there. One minute he wants to take the Arrow down and the next he's with them in Nanda Parbat? Nah. 

 

I don't think it should happen which means it probably happens. Because this season is dumb.

[Morrigan2575]

This may be the interview that Morrigan2575 was talking about (very last paragraph):  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/8621-the-starling-city-times-news-and-media-about-arrow/?p=904600

 

Eh, not enjoying all of this talk about epic game changers and fundamentally changing the show at the most basic level.  I'm glad I've stopped watching because I fear that the show is going full speed ahead in a direction that I will not enjoy.  Resurrections, superpowers, maybe time travel?!  No thanks.

Yes, that was it. Thank you for finding it.  Might be up to interpretation but his comment sounded to me that after getting a taste of being out of the show or having minimal screen-time he found out that he wasn't happy with it.  One of those grass is always greener on the other side of the fence scenarios.

[statsgirl]

Since a lot of people have been complaining about the changes that have been made in s3, it seems insane to me to continue even further down that road for season 4.  Which is probably what they're going to do.

 

I had a horrible thought this morning. What if Guggenheim leaves to run the new show, which he seems keen to do, and they promote Wendy Mericle or Beth Schwartz to run Arrow?  They're responsible for Time of Death and a number of other episodes I really didn't like.

 

Wouldn't the other character they are taking from Arrow be Ray?

*headdesk*  I guess it shows how much I think about Ray.

 

The Ra's prophecy is the stupidest plot contrivance yet.  Oliver only survived because Ra's didn't stab him in the heart.  You would think that someone as experienced and powerful a fighter as Ra's al Ghul would know how to kill someone effectively and permanently.

 

Hearing the name "Black Canary" should be a somber reminder of the murdered Sara/Canary.  So Cisco's lighthearted 'ILY' response is an inappropriate and tasteless reaction.  Laurel wouldn't even be the BC if not for Sara's death.  I think that since Cisco is the fanboy on his show, the EPs were giving a nod to BC comic book fans.  It would've worked better if Cisco had made that comment to an alive Sara/Canary.

Especially since the new BC isn't all that competent at the moment.  Sara was awesome.  But I guess for Cisco, it's all about the names.

 

The Ra's al Ghul story just gets stupider and stupider.  Maybe next we'll hear that Ra's deliberately didn't kill Oliver because he wanted him to run the LoA.  Or that this was MM's real plan and he conspired with Tatsu and Maseo to save Oliver so that 20 years down the road, Oliver could become Ra's and erase the blood debt.

 

The fact that there are more shots of Laurel on that reel than of Felicity does not make me either happy or optimistic.  AK's interview with Seat 42F suggests that Oliver will be questioning his decision to push Felicity away but unless he actually does something about it, I don't care.  And by 'something', I mean finally be willing to be open with her, not more of this dangling maybes stuff.

[wonderwall]

I would not be against a Ray/Laurel team up to help Starling while the Original team goes to NP to fix Oliver's shit. 

 

Then again, I can't have nice things so...

[apinknightmare]

Obviously I don't know what's gonna happen in the episodes leading up to this but I'd find it weird if Ray was there. One minute he wants to take the Arrow down and the next he's with them in Nanda Parbat? Nah. 

 

We were talking about this a few pages back, but I don't think Ray is going to try to take Oliver down. I think that was an editing trick in that promo. He's going to find out that Oliver is the Arrow, and maybe for a brief time during an episode he might want to expose him, but I think that might happen in order to force Felicity to admit that she works with him. And maybe to make Ray realize that Oliver was the "more than a friend" she was talking about, since he knew that the Arrow went missing. 

 

Could be wrong and he does go after him for real, of course. 

[Password]

We were talking about this a few pages back, but I don't think Ray is going to try to take Oliver down. I think that was an editing trick in that promo. He's going to find out that Oliver is the Arrow, and maybe for a brief time during an episode he might want to expose him, but I think that might happen in order to force Felicity to admit that she works with him. And maybe to make Ray realize that Oliver was the "more than a friend" she was talking about, since he knew that the Arrow went missing.

Could be wrong and he does go after him for real, of course.

Your scenario maybe gives the writers too much credit. But if it does happen, it would be in line with Ray being a sneaky little thing that uses his brain.

Fingers crossed?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Per Felicity: "Okay.  Well, I don't understand anything anymore."  I'm right there with you Felicity.

 

 

Yes, that was it. Thank you for finding it.  Might be up to interpretation but his comment sounded to me that after getting a taste of being out of the show or having minimal screen-time he found out that he wasn't happy with it.  One of those grass is always greener on the other side of the fence scenarios.

 

Yeah, that's how I interpreted his comment too.

[apinknightmare]

Your scenario maybe gives the writers too much credit. But if it does happen, it would be in line with Ray being a sneaky little thing that uses his brain.

Fingers crossed?

 

I didn't mean that I thought Ray was going to tell Felicity that he knew Oliver was the Arrow and/or threaten Oliver to get her to admit that she worked with him, I meant that would be the purpose of that development plot-wise. So, Ray might threaten to take Oliver down, but I don't think the writers would have him do it, because the goal of writing that development wouldn't be to turn Ray into an asshole (theoretically speaking, because I know some people think he already is one) it would be to cause love-triangle drama. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ray does go after the Arrow because it's in Ray's make-up to think that he's better than anyone else at fixing things.  He's the one who wanted to re-brand the city as Star City as part of his campaign to save it.  But if he does, I really hope it has nothing to do with Felicity or figuring out that she works with the Arrow.  And also please don't have Felicity torn in her loyalty to the two.

 

I would not be against a Ray/Laurel team up to help Starling while the Original team goes to NP to fix Oliver's shit. 

 

Then again, I can't have nice things so...

I'm with you on hoping Ray and Laurel stay in Starling City, Laurel needs to repair her relationship with her father after all, but they seem dead set on making her a full partner in Team Arrow so I'm expecting her to be on that plane.  I wonder if Thea will be there too, or will Oliver make the decision that it's too dangerous for her.

 

 But it would still be dependant on which characters they decide are gonna move the A-plot... and if it's Laurel or Malcolm then I'll check out regardless of any change they make in tone or themes.

Yeah. I would watch whatever they decided to do with the trio of Oliver/Diggle/Felicity but I'm over Malcolm now and this season has only made Laurel worse for me.

[Sunshine]

In the KC Comiccon video SA talks about retiring a set that they have used a lot recently. Perhaps one of their grassroots changes is that in S4 they will no longer have one location from which everything and everyone operates? Perhaps Arrow will operate from one area and BC from another?

I have to wonder if Arrow isn't the one who clues ATOM in as to what is going on. In one of those pictures it looks like ATOM's standing at a distance all ready to shoot his lasers or whatever and in another he is right in front of him like they are talking. Since the best part of the heated exchange in MG's words is what Arrow calls ATOM perhaps they never come to actual blows/shots? Felicity might be worried about the newbie so she talks to Oliver. Anyway whatever happens has to be resolved in this episode because Ray is critically injured for 3.18 and trying to figure out if he is a hero in 3.19. If he is with the gang in 3.20 they have to have put aside their differences for the greater good by before then.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

In the KC Comiccon video SA talks about retiring a set that they have used a lot recently. Perhaps one of their grassroots changes is that in S4 they will no longer have one location from which everything and everyone operates? Perhaps Arrow will operate from one area and BC from another?

I'm guessing it's the Foundry, since they blew it up in 319 (we think).