Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

Why would they even consider letting Malcolm help them?! I'm not surprised Felicity is so adamant against it. The man mind-tricked his own child into killing someone and sent Oliver to his death. Like whaaaaaat?! But sure, let's team up with the psychopath. That always works. Lol this show.

yeah this. I don't get it. Like I love John Barrowman but this doesn't make sense. 

[statsgirl]

Laurel & Roy:  Brick is just such a bad, bad person. We need all the help we can get to defeat him.

Felicity, We'll I've got this guy who is working on this suit....

Diggle:  Sorry, Felicity, can't wait. I don't want to agree with Roy (and I really don't want to agree with Laurel) but we have to handle this thing now.

Felicity: But what about the police?

Laurel:  Oh no, you can't tell the police.  I couldn't stand to lose my father.

 

I've noticed a trend, negative reactions (like TCA Panel debacle) send out Felicity spoilers. Hello Mama Smoak!!

 And they're still using her to get people to like other characters. Maybe that's why we have to wait for Felicity/Thea scenes, people already like Thea.

[Guest]

yeah this. I don't get it. Like I love John Barrowman but this doesn't make sense. 

 

Oh, I love Barrowman too but this is just dumb. It's well into the realm of stupidity. Oliver was dumb enough to offer Malcolm his protection earlier this season even knowing the guy is an evil mass murderer. And now the team will consider his offer of help, knowing that he's the reason Oliver is dead? Do the writers think we'll just forget things like this? DUMB.

[Orion]

My mouth dropped open at that description and then my eyes started rolling.

 

So I'm suppose to believe that Roy would want to team up with the man he knows is responsible for getting his mentor/big brother killed and who brainwashed his ex-girlfriend, who he loved, into killing a woman that he fought beside. And Laurel who knows that Malcom is the person behind the earthquake machine that killed her true love thinks this is a great idea. And of course Diggle is going to ultimately side with Roy and Laurel because of course. 

 

  I honestly just have no words for this.

[ban1o]

The writers are just ugh. This is so contrived. Why on earth would team arrow side with MALCOLM.

[KenyaJ]

If Oliver gets all upset at Felicity getting hurt, how much do you want to bet he's going to push her away to protect her?

 

I want her to get hit by a car while crossing the street. Well, not really, but I want it to be caused by some regular, every-day occurrence that shows Oliver that life is short, shit happens, and it's stupid to keep yourself away from the person you love out of some false sense of "protection."

[Chaser]

LOL….or Team Flash???

Edited January 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[NumberCruncher]

Just what I've always wanted, Roy and Laurel to team up against Felicity. And you just know that Diggle is going to side with them.

Yep, that was my immediate thought too. Diggle is going to go full on OOC and decide they should work for the man who is directly responsible for Oliver's death because Felicity needs to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

[ban1o]

It's even inconisstent and OOC with laurel. She wanted Malcolm dead before. This makes no sense.

Edited January 16, 2015 by ban1o

[KenyaJ]

Yep, that was my immediate thought too. Diggle is going to go full on OOC and decide they should work for the man who is directly responsible for Oliver's death because Felicity needs to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

I hope she tells them to fuck off and leaves them to fend for themselves.

[statsgirl]

The writers are just ugh. This is so contrived. Why on earth would team arrow side with MALCOLM.

 

Because Brick is more than they can handle on their own, and they  need to honor Oliver's memory?  (There seems to be a bit too much memory honoring on this show.)

 

Because they need Laurel to be more a part of Team Arrow than Felicity is so we'll love her?  Felicity is shutting down the Arrow cave and working with Ray while Laurel is cheerleading the Team.

[somewhereother]

Laurel & Roy:  Brick is just such a bad, bad person. We need all the help we can get to defeat him.

Felicity, We'll I've got this guy who is working on this suit....

Diggle:  Sorry, Felicity, can't wait. I don't want to agree with Roy (and I really don't want to agree with Laurel) but we have to handle this thing now.

Felicity: But what about the police?

Laurel:  Oh no, you can't tell the police.  I couldn't stand to lose my father.

 

Lol, so many options other than Malcom:

Quentin / police

Lyla / argus

Barry / star labs

Ray / atom

[NumberCruncher]

I hope she tells them to fuck off and leaves them to fend for themselves.

Well if she does that then there's a 99.99% chance she'll immediately go her desk at PI where the stalker can find her and console her so the writers/EPs win either way. ;)

[apinknightmare]

I hope they take Malcolm up on his offer against Felicity's protests and it comes back to bite them later on.

[statsgirl]

I hope so too but I think since Ra's is going to rain fire upon the city, teaming with Malcolm will be something that saves them in the end.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, hey, I guessed it right that 312 was Malcolm's flashback episode. I should play the lottery.

And yes, please, let's pitch Felicity and Laurel against each other in how to run missions, because that is everything I've ever wanted from this show. SARCASM FONT.

[Chaser]

The Enemy of My Enemy is My Fri….Wait? They are still my enemy right?

[Guest]

Is this the same episode we supposedly get the big Felicity scene with the 'I don't want to be a woman you love' dialog? 

 

This just sounds like it's driving her away from the team tbh….

 

….and straight into Ray's ATOM-y arms.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Guest

[Orion]

Because they need Laurel to be more a part of Team Arrow than Felicity is so we'll love her?  Felicity is shutting down the Arrow cave and working with Ray while Laurel is cheerleading the Team.

 

5 to 1 odds that they decide to team up with MM; it works out and Felicity has to admit that Laurel was right and is super great addition to the team. 

[statsgirl]

That's going to be the great Felicity/Laurel scene, where Felicity admits that Laurel was right and knows better than she does?

[Chaser]

The last time they were forced to help Malcolm with a personal vendetta, Oliver died. Because Oliver is dead they are down a man and need help. Malcolm comes in with a personal vendetta and wants to assist. And this is a good idea?

 

According to the Felicity and Laurel spoilers, Felicity gives Laurel some words of wisdom. At least, we shouldn't have Felicity apologizing.

Edited January 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

We all know how this is all going to pan out... Roy and Laurel team up to persuade Digg and Felicity that they need Malcolm's help to take down this Brick character. Felicity is adamantly against it because they can't trust Malcolm, but Digg will then side with Roy and Laurel. This will probably make Felicity not want to be a part of the plan because she won't want to deal with Malcolm. She will probably team up with Ray and the Police Force but they'll probably be unsuccessful. In the end, the rest of the team will probably prove Felicity wrong when Malcolm, Roy, Laurel, and Diggle save the Glades because trusting Malcolm to help was the right thing to do. This will probably lead to Felicity apologizing to Laurel and then they become more friendly and accept each other... Or some crap like that. 

This shows the writers write more for plot than for characters. It doesn't make sense for a single character, Roy, laurel, Diggle or Felicity to want to team up with MAlcolm. It's ridiculous.

Well at least Felicity is in character for being vehemently against the idea. 

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if these guys are even capable of writing a Felicity/Laurel scene that passes the Bechdel test.

[BkWurm1]

teased for me a fight scene in which a stunt woman jumped out a high window and grabbed a rope dangling from a helicopter above. Hmm, which character could that be?

 

My first instinct is not to guess the woman but guess the window. It might be a remade set to look not like Palmer Industries but I'm expecting it to look very familiar. 

 

never-forget-your-memories asked: Any hints at what a future Mama Smoak storyline could be?

marc guggenheim: Her scenes will take place in a hospital.

 

If all her scenes take place in a hospital then either Felicity is also in the hospital for most of the episode or it's Mama Smaok that's been admitted.  They wouldn't kill off Felicity's mom...would they?

[quarks]

:: blinks at the episode description ::

 

1. We already did this plot with Deadshot and the League of Assassins in last year's season finale. So - are we meant to think that Brick is at that same level?

 

2. Wasn't Laurel just vowing vengeance on Sara's killer like one episode ago?  I mean, I actually admire her - and that's not snark, I'm serious - for trying to look at the bigger picture here, but this seems a bit of a stretch even for "why should I keep the same motivation for more than one week or sometimes even one episode" Laurel.  

 

3. Why isn't Diggle making this argument? He's the practical one, and he's previously agreed to work with Deadshot, who shot his brother, so it's completely within character.

 

4. As others have just pointed out, if they are desperate enough to need Malcolm, this seems like a perfect opportunity to introduce Ray and the robots.  Which might actually be the plan. 

[Guest]

It doesn't make sense because the Glades is the very thing Malcolm was trying to destroy. Why would he want to save it from Brick? And once again, the team know this. Ugh. I think I better leave before all the dumb starts catching.

[dtissagirl]

It doesn't make sense because the Glades is the very thing Malcolm was trying to destroy. Why would he want to save it from Brick? And once again, the team know this. Ugh. I think I better leave before all the dumb starts catching.

THIS. Wasn't Malcolm's butthurt over the Glades so great he imploded it? But now he'll save the place? Okay, show, whatev.

I mean, I get that if you wanna flashback to a lighter, gentler Malcolm, he has to be somehow involved in the A-plot. But tbh, I'd buy it easier if he was financing Brick instead of flip-flopping.

[Chaser]

He has a personal beef with Brick apparently. The 'innocent lives' (every time I hear the word innocent I flash to Faith from BTVS - "No such creature") is the selling pitch to Team Arrow plus 1. Still, they have other options. My top two: Argus and Team Flash.

 

Apparently, Roy and Laurel are forming a bond like Arsenal and Black Canary in the comics (per. MG on Tumblr). Does that leave Diggle/Oliver/Felicity doing their own thing? I'm okay with that. 

[ban1o]

Don't they realize that trusting Malcolm brings death. Thea trusting Malcolm resulted in Sara's death. This doesn't make sense.

[Orion]

3. Why isn't Diggle making this argument? He's the practical one, and he's previously agreed to work with Deadshot, who shot his brother, so it's completely within character.

 

In my mind the show drew a line with the Deadshot/Diggle peace treaty that I think would apply here. Diggle didn't really soften toward Deadshot until he learned that Deadshot was following a contract to kill Andy. Deadshot isn't evil by nature, he's in it for the money.  In the Russian episode Diggle was still very much in favor of killing Deadshot in that freezer but once he learned about HIVE that's when his acceptance of Deadshot happened.

 

Malcolm is just evil. He isn't in for the money or for a greater purpose. He's a bad guy doing bad things and I can't see Diggle signing up for even a limited partnership with him. It would be OOC for Diggle to team up with someone evil that got Oliver killed, used Thea to murder the woman he apparently felt close enough (even thought we didn't see it. Still not over it) to name his only child after and caused an earthquake that killed 503 innocent people.

 

But that might just be a distinction in my mind and not the shows. 

[statsgirl]

The only thing that makes sense is Malcolm wanting to join.  He looks good for Thea and he gets an 'in' to Team Arrow so he can do his underhanded stuff there while there is no Oliver.

 

I wonder what the point is of pitting Laurel vs Felicity, it seems like a no-win situation. If Felicity is right, Laurel looks even worse for wanting to add Malcolm; if Laurel is right, there are going to be a bunch of angry fans for what seems to be throwing Felicity under the Laurel-bus too.

 

4. As others have just pointed out, if they are desperate enough to need Malcolm, this seems like a perfect opportunity to introduce Ray and the robots.  Which might actually be the plan. 

 

They may already know about them. The episode description for the previous episode says "Meanwhile, Ray steps in to help Lance and the police force fight Brick, showing Felicity a new side of her boss." 

[quarks]

Oh, I'm assuming on Malcolm's side, this is all yet another manipulative trick, either to eliminate Brick or whatever. I'm just wondering if anyone else will bring up that little "Uh, he tried to destroy the Glades before this, so..."

[BkWurm1]

Malcolm offering to step in and save the day is giving me Lionel Luthor from Smallville flashbacks.  Anyone else remember the Thanksgiving Dinner at the Kents where Lionel was warmly accepted by Chloe the girl who' he tried to have killed when she testified against him, Lois, Chloe's protective cousin who only came to town in the first place when she thought Lionel had blown Chloe up,  Clark and Martha - whose father and husband respectively died due to a heart attack he suffered during a fist fight with Lionel when Lionel seemed to be blackmailing him.  Bonus points - Oliver Queen - who would later discover Lionel had his parents killed.  Pass the mashed potatoes please. 

[ban1o]

I'm reading other sites and most people don't seem to care about TA siding with Malcolm. Maybe it's just me but I just don't understand "heroes" teaming up with a terrorist who killed hundred of people.

Edited January 16, 2015 by ban1o

[Chaser]

@ban1o - Its not just use you. I don't understand how this is even an option. The Glades, Thea, Oliver and I'm sure there are plenty more skeletons in the closet. 

Edited January 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if not wanting to accept Malcolm's help because of what he did to Oliver and Thea (we'll just ignore the fact that he's evil as hell and they shouldn't accept his help regardless) in order to take down a villain and save people's lives will somehow play into this Olicity moment that's going to make people hate tweet MG? Like, her loving him clouds her decision making ability?

Probably not, just throwing things against the wall.

[jay741982]

I'm reading other sites and most people don't seem to care about TA siding with Malcolm. Maybe it's just me but I just

don't understand "heroes" teaming up with a terrorist who killed hundred of people.

I don't get it either I guess it might be cause Malcolm is played by John Barrowman one of the best actors on the show

I wonder if not wanting to accept Malcolm's help because of what he did to Oliver and Thea (we'll just ignore the fact that he's evil as hell and they shouldn't accept his help regardless) in order to take down a villain and save people's lives will somehow play into this Olicity moment that's going to make people hate tweet MG? Like, her loving him clouds her decision making ability?

Probably not, just throwing things against the wall.

Quite possibly. That and Her feeling like she's a big distraction to Oliver's Quest. I'd like to think Oliver would actually side with Felicity on not wanting Malcolm's help but who knows?

[pootlus]

Yeah I'm guessing that a lot of the passes Malcolm gets on the evil shit he's done is because people want more Barrowman on their screens. Which I do too but it doesn't stop me regarding the character he's playing as evil.

Edited January 16, 2015 by pootlus

[ban1o]

Wait isn't the writer of this episode the Same person who wrote "time of death"

[statsgirl]

One of the two Time of Death writers. But it's also co-written by one of the guys who wrote The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak.

 

I don't see how Oliver could not side with Felicity after what Malcolm's done, unless Laurel is proved right by the time he gets back.  Maybe that's why he accepts her on the Team.

Edited January 16, 2015 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

Yeah I'm guessong that a lot of the passes Malcolm gets on the evil shit he's done is because people want more Barrowman on their screens. Which I do too but it doesn't stop me regarding the character he's playing as evil.

Yeah I guess it was inevitable. They made Barrowman a regular and people love him so I guess eventually he was going to team up with them. I just hope the reasoning for teaming up with him makes some sort of sense.

Edited January 16, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

One of the two Time of Death writers. But it's also co-written by one of the guys who wrote The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak.

I don't see how Oliver could not side with Felicity after what Malcolm's done, unless Laurel is proved right by the time he gets back. Maybe that's why he accepts her on the Team.

Yeah, I was thinking Oliver would side with Felicity.

[jay741982]

One of the two Time of Death writers. But it's also co-written by one of the guys who wrote The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak.

 

I don't see how Oliver could not side with Felicity after what Malcolm's done, unless Laurel is proved right by the time he gets back.  Maybe that's why he accepts her on the Team.

Ugh I'd hope he would rail on his team for working with Malcolm. This is the Episode where he comes back isn't it? Maybe like a dumbest he sides with them and Felicity gets mad and leaves?

[ban1o]

Yeah, I was thinking Oliver would side with Felicity.

Mm I. Wouldn't be so sure about that. I mean he was the one who wanted to "protect" Merlin lol.

[wonderwall]

Mm I. Wouldn't be so sure about that. I mean he was the one who wanted to "protect" Merlin lol.

After what Merlyn did to Thea and Oliver, I'd say all bets are off :p

[jay741982]

Now for some reason I'm feeling like Felicity rails against them for working with Malcolm even listing the reasons why they shouldn't work with him. They act stupid and she leaves Team Arrow

[Chaser]

How much was SA filming? I wonder if he is going to come in and save the day? Which I would find a little hilarious. Or is he only in a reunion scene with Felicity?

[jay741982]

How much was SA filming? I wonder if he is going to come in and save the day? Which I would find a little hilarious. Or is he only in a reunion scene with Felicity?

I'd love for Oliver to save the day with Felicity having a big smile on her face. Then their reunion

[BkWurm1]

I'm really disappointed that this season is going to try and out crap the back half of season 2.  I don't know if I can take it being that miserable and dark.  I was counting on the back half of 3 lightening up but it doesn't sound like it now.  Does that mean that season 4 is going to try and out crap season 3?  This show may not drive me away by messing up Oliver and Felicity, but it might by making watching this show a deeply miserable experience. 

Edited January 16, 2015 by BkWurm1

[JenMD]

Oh god they really are going to replay Oliver's "death" at the beginning of every single episode aren't they

 

It'll make a nice change from seeing Sara die each week.

 

The latest ep description is just making my eyes hurt from all the eye-rolling.