Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I'm not a comic book reader either. I know Ra's from Batman.  I knew enough to know he wasn't to be messed with and that I was hoping they wouldn't ever find the fountain of youth or Lazarus Pits. 

 

As a non-comic book reader who enjoys comic books through TV and movies, I would argue I'd like the source material to not be the bible the writers don't stray from. I find comic storytelling to be like soap operas. You can miss a whole bunch and pick right back up because there has been no progress. I've also been told the comics retcon stuff a lot. The problem is Arrow is a finite medium. There is a beginning, middle, and end. Arrow lucks out because it is on a network where mediocrity is the acceptable quality. It'll hold steady and the writers can dick around all they want. As long as Oliver removes his shirts and they can contrive reasons for it,  the female audience sticks around. As long as there are some bad ass fight sequences,  the male audience stays. They bought some extra insurance with a few other characters and the comic loyalty from some viewers. It doesn't  matter if the audience is only watching 1/3 of the show. They get the rating to stay steady and the hard on the writers have for "their show" finds its pleasure. 

 

While killing Oliver has some potential for storytelling, I doubt they've contemplated the consequence of their actions. Isobel is a great example. They plugged her into a bunch of different scenarios and told us "wait and see." Ultimately she was flat as a pancake. Summer Glau and her hair were wasted. Nothing had a payoff - her attempt to take over QC, her time in the sheets with Oliver, and her hatred of Felicity. 

 

Slade?  Malcolm? Sara? Ra's? 

 

They all have potential and it has all fallen flat. I'm not sure why Oliver's death won't be the same.  They've killed him to what end? Time off for Amell? To launch the Black Canary? To have Felicity realize the depth of her feelings? So Digg can get more screen time? To let Roy out of Oliver's shadow? To allow Thea to realize her father is a monster? To allow Ray to be the fun-loving, handsome hero the child known as Barry Allen isn't.

 

Hell even Laurel had potential. However they have pretty much done anything but tap the potential. Their beloved Laurel Lance is mostly hated because of the direction they've taken her character. They hit their stride with her and then run her off a bridge.  

 

This viewer doesn't want to see Laurel don a costume. There is no scenario in which I am willing to accept her. Laurel's consistency has been her selfishness. She isn't hero material. I don't buy her misguided attempts to revenge her sister's death. She happily sent her sister off to be an assassin. She hasn't earned the right to grieve or revenge. She has earned the right to STFU.

 

Raylicity shouldn't be a word. He isn't a viable option for Felicity. They've missed the mark with him at each turn. So he's going to get a suit soon. Big freaking woo.Ray is the eccentric billionaire with a lack of social skills and boundaries. He's handsome from a distance, but he isn't anything to write home about. He and Oliver are like a negative. Ray is the white and Oliver is the black. However, I don't think Ray has ever and will ever be a choice. Ray is only around to slow the Olicity train and to get a suit of his own. His very presence is an issue of plot contrivance. Without the stigma of love interest for Felicity hanging over his head, I might have given Ray more than a passing glance. However his actions aren't romantic. His eccentricity isn't adorable. He's just there.

 

Thea and Malcolm and their story seem to have been dropped like a hot potato. I guess I'm missing the great interactions. I was waiting to see something which would convince me Thea could sit with a man who killed 500 plus people.  He's the reason her mother was taken from her. Sure Slade killed Moira but Thea lost Moira and Oliver the night of the Undertaking.

 

I can't with the Quentin BS. They could have contrived a decent reason why he couldn't be told. The death of Sara Lance brings about a question as some HVT died the same night she was seen in town. Those who know she has a shady past need to protect her. Therefore Laurel  can't tell Quentin because Sara's death would implicate her in the assassination of *fill in the blank*. At least we wouldn't be dealing with Quentin will be the last to know because his ticker might stop ticking. Stupid reason much? It makes me hate the characters who know because Quentin deserves the truth. Each passing minute he doesn't know is fueling my hatred. Whoever finally tells him deserves an exploding glass thrown at them.

 

The problem with killing Oliver is it will change him. I doubt you come back from a violent death and some odd source of resurrection without being fundamentally changed. However, we've already seen season 1 and 2. Let's not do it again shall we? (See my note on repetitiveness and soap operas above.) I don't think the writers are creative enough to not retread. Which means Oliver has tasted death and he will probably be even more determined to be a lone vigilante. Especially if he comes back and those he loves are devastated. 

[Chiny11]

@AnalyzeAndCritique *Clapping* Couldn't have said it better myself.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Chiny11

[jay741982]

I really Hope and pray Oliver comes back more determined to keep his humanity, not revert to season 1 Oliver. He SHOULD come back, Fight for Felicity Keep her away from Creepy Ray and realize he can be Oliver and The Arrow. But MG is a idiot loving that starcrossed Bullshit and still not grasping why Laurel isn't liked OR That hooking up the overwhelmingly popular Couple doesn't mean Death for the show. It worked on Chuck to name a show

[Danny Franks]

Resetting Oliver will allow them to put more obstacles in the way of Oliver/Felicity, and now that has officially become the main 'ship on the show, I believe that's where the writers' main priorities lie. We've all seen it before, we've all heard talk of 'ships 'eating shows'. This is what happens, they put all their creative energies into stalling a relationship actually progressing, because they're terrified that everyone will stop watching once those two people get together. Because a show that was on TV thirty years ago turned to shit after a few years.

 

So... if it has occurred to them that resetting Oliver is an option (and even though it's immediately apparent to many people on this forum, I wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion that the baboons who write this show will have recognised it), then I'd say they're almost certain to do it, at least for a little while. And if not a full reset, then at least a hardening of his 'I can't be with anyone because I have to be miserable all the time because reasons' stance. Which Felicity will probably overhear him saying just as she's about to declare her love for him or something. Because that's the sort of 'original' writing that accompanies these tropes.

 

What would be better, more original and more interesting, for the show and for the characters? Oliver having an epiphany about his life and the emptiness of it, and realising that he wants all the things that make him happy. But, thinking about it, they can still give him that epiphany, and then he returns to see Felicity is dating 50 Shades, so adopts the silent, suffering woobie face until the season finale.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

If the writers had any sense of striking while the iron is hot, they would have brought S3 in with Oliver and Felicity doing their flirty-flirt. Over the first half of the season they attempt to date while being thwarted with Arrow business. It almost becomes comical. Their dates are interrupted before they can begin and halfway through. They can't really find time together, but they are together. Felicity is dropping lines about third date rules and trying to add the fractions of their dates up. They steal kisses and shoulder touches. it would have lightened up the show and made some aspects of it enjoyable. Digg and Roy look on and drop one liners. It doesn't change the fundamental aspects of Team Arrow.  It adds to the already strong foundation. 

 

At least then the first ten episodes would have something to smile about. Why a show chooses to steal the joy is beyond me. Most people watch TV to give them an escape. I doubt happy people sit at home thinking "let me watch a show which will cause me to need anti-depressants." You don't have to stall Olicity. You need to accept it, acknowledge it, and then take it off the front burner. After all Arrow is an action-adventure show not a gallows-humor romance. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[apinknightmare]

If Oliver does come back different, I don't think it'll last more than an ep, maybe two. it doesn't make much sense for them to show us Oliver losing his humanity in the past while he loses it (again) in the present. We've already seen that.

[Danny Franks]

At least then the first ten episodes would have something to smile about. Why a show choices to steal the joy is beyond me. Most people watch TV to give them an escape. I doubt happy people sit at home thinking "let me watch a show which will cause me to need anti-depressants." You don't have to stall Olicity. You need to accept it, acknowledge it, and then take it off the front burner. After all Arrow is an action-adventure show not a gallows-humor romance. 

 

That's key, for me. The reason that so many shows get consumed by a 'ship is because the writers allow it. They write up to it, constantly referencing it and making it a big deal, while also perversely refusing to allow it to happen. So at some point that becomes all people are watching for, because it's the only thing they've been told is important.

 

Shows that get it right are the ones that allow relationships to happen, and allow them to progress naturally without constantly looking to them as a source of manufactured drama. And funnily enough, accepting the relationship, from a writing perspective, would probably give them more scope to explore their shiny new toy characters in the back half of the season. You can show 50 Shades creepily building his robot suit out of human body parts, or Laurel getting beaten up by some two-bit hoodlum, if you still have some light, fun, engaging elements to counter the grimness.

[jay741982]

@AnalyzeAndCritique We agree when it comes to Olicity there is no logical reason other than they think every Olicity fan wants nothing but angst for this couple which is horseshit! They should have hooked them up in the season Premiere and put a lesser focus on Olicity but no that's why 50 shades is there. UGH

[apinknightmare]

@AnalyzeAndCritique We agree when it comes to Olicity there is no logical reason other than they think every Olicity fan wants nothing but angst for this couple which is horseshit! They should have hooked them up in the season Premiere and put a lesser focus on Olicity but no that's why 50 shades is there. UGH

I don't think the issue is that the writers and EPs think that everyone wants angst so much as it is that they don't really know how to create romantic drama if Oliver and Felicity are actually together. They would have their fair share of relationship hurdles if they were actually committed to each other- I just don't think anyone is confident in their ability to write that. So they keep them apart.

Edited January 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Shows that get it right are the ones that allow relationships to happen, and allow them to progress naturally without constantly looking to them as a source of manufactured drama. And funnily enough, accepting the relationship, from a writing perspective, would probably give them more scope to explore their shiny new toy characters in the back half of the season. You can show 50 Shades creepily building his robot suit out of human body parts, or Laurel getting beaten up by some two-bit hoodlum, if you still have some light, fun, engaging elements to counter the grimness.

 

Absolutely. I would be way more interested in Ray (in theory) without the threat of him being a ship distraction. Felicity could still work for him (because working at Tech Village was way beneath her skill set), Oliver could still have lost QC and had his existential crisis without shoving Felicity and Diggle away, and Ray could have still wanted Felicity's help with the ATOM suit. 

 

I really don't understand why professional writers still reference Moonlighting. If anything, if it were me, I would want to say that it's a ridiculous superstition and good writing should be able to overcome the issues that can plague a show. Instead, they seem to embrace it, like yeah, we aren't good enough to work around it. 

 

They were given a gift with EBR/Felicity. Imagine if it been another actress in that one-off role. We wouldn't really have another option besides Laurel and Oliver. (McKenna and Helena were okay but didn't set my TV on fire.) The chemistry that EBR and SA have is rare, and to continue to try to stall it is beyond stupid. 

[jay741982]

They need to learn cause this crap is depressing and unneeded there is no reason why Olicity shouldn't be together than put the relationship on the Backburner. Like Apinknightmare has said it's obvious they don't have the stones to do it

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

That's key, for me. The reason that so many shows get consumed by a 'ship is because the writers allow it. They write up to it, constantly referencing it and making it a big deal, while also perversely refusing to allow it to happen. So at some point that becomes all people are watching for, because it's the only thing they've been told is important.

 

Shows that get it right are the ones that allow relationships to happen, and allow them to progress naturally without constantly looking to them as a source of manufactured drama. And funnily enough, accepting the relationship, from a writing perspective, would probably give them more scope to explore their shiny new toy characters in the back half of the season. You can show 50 Shades creepily building his robot suit out of human body parts, or Laurel getting beaten up by some two-bit hoodlum, if you still have some light, fun, engaging elements to counter the grimness.

I agree. It really shouldn't be that damn hard either to write for them. They were practically a couple just without the official titles and the tonsil hockey. You add the titles and the tonsil hockey and voila you have a couple. How they can't write that is beyond me. Take S2 for example. If Olicity was a thing you end the night with a "your place or mine?  cooking or take out?" It  acknowledges the relationship while not  making a big deal of it. Neither person has to be OOC for it to work.

 

Anything to smile about would give this show a boost which it desperately needs.

Edited January 4, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[jay741982]

I agree the Chemistry between EBR and SA is Electric and it's real stupid to keep their characters from being Romantically involved

[chaos is welcome]

I really wonder if part of Oliver "dying" is that when he comes back, Oliver Queen needs to stay dead...ie he can have no life outside of the arrow at all. The foundry is his home, he can't see Thea, he can't walk with felicity in the light of day without the hood or the mask. Thereby making him realize how much he wants to be oq. I kind of expect mm to say " Oliver Queen is dead...as far as the world is concerned". Don't think this will happen, but who knows.

Wrt ray, I suspect he will be a distraction for felicity...another mission to keep her thoughts off her pain. I hope they do jot go romantic, hut if they do it's prob gonna be an "I would give anything to forget this pain, even for a second" type thing.

I think the reason they has ras battle a whole bunch of guys was to show his dangerous man status, but it was prob lost on the casual viewer. He sure handed Oliver his butt in the fight. There is still a twist coming...I still wonder if Oliver didn't already figure he would "die" and he and Malcolm had a plan in place...meaning he knows Malcolm's REAL motive, or this is a twist to somehow take ras by surprise. Big angst factor if this is the case bc Oliver didn't tell anyone of his plan and might now his team will think him dead when he in fact isn't. Major angst for felicity who already had one oops, lied, not really dead love interest.

[dcinmb]

I really wonder if part of Oliver "dying" is that when he comes back, Oliver Queen needs to stay dead...ie he can have no life outside of the arrow at all. The foundry is his home, he can't see Thea, he can't walk with felicity in the light of day without the hood or the mask. Thereby making him realize how much he wants to be oq. I kind of expect mm to say " Oliver Queen is dead...as far as the world is concerned". Don't think this will happen, but who knows.

I really hope not because the CW already has a show called "Beauty and the Beast."

[chaos is welcome]

You know it's funny you said that bc when there was talk of the lp erasing Oliver's scars, that's what I thought of. Which is bad, bc that show is truly AWEFUL.

Edited January 5, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[statsgirl]

If someone as batshit as Malcolm is taken back by Moira saying his name, then you know he's trouble. Although, Moira threatening Malcolm with Ra's al Ghul is a lot more effective than anything Ra's has done on the show far, IMO. Even kicking Oliver off that cliff.

 

I thought Ra's was terrifying after that scene with Moira and Malcolm. Then when I saw him, I thought What's all the fuss about?  I still think Nyssa is much more scary than Ra's is.

 

Absolutely. I would be way more interested in Ray (in theory) without the threat of him being a ship distraction.

I'll see what the next episode brings but I'm wondering if this is what I should be tweeting MG about Ray.

 

5. To fulfill Oliver's "It's going to be me on that table" prophecy and get it out of the way.

 

6. As part of the hero's journey: the idea is that the hero has to pass through the absolute worst, up to and sometimes including death, before the end. (This happens in many mythological tales/fairy tales.)

 

7. As an additional allusion to the Odyssey, which seems to be a Thing on this show, mirroring Odysseus's visit with the shades of the dead.   

That's kind of awesome, quarks.  This show gives me whiplash between the potential for awesome storytelling (I'd rather it be the Odyssey and not The Dark Knight) and what often ends up on my screen.  Remember how Penelope set the bar for fidelity in the Odyssey?

 

Shows that get it right are the ones that allow relationships to happen, and allow them to progress naturally without constantly looking to them as a source of manufactured drama.

It's yet another argument for giving shows a finite number of episodes so the story can be plotted out and told well rather than renewed? cancelled? renewed until the show withers from being stagnant.

[tv echo]

The Odyssey also set the double standard for fidelity.  Penelope was completely faithful to Odysseus during the 20 years that he was away, even when besieged by many suitors.  However, while Odysseus was emotionally faithful to her (he still loved her), he was not physically faithful.  He had sex with Circe in order to save his men but then stayed with her as her lover for at least a year.  He subsequently becomes Calypso's willing lover for the seven years that she kept him on her island.  He even sleeps with her the night before he is allowed - thanks to Athena's intervention - to leave the island.  (There's also a reference to his having grown tired of Calypso.)  Also, Odysseus fathered at least one son with either Circe or Calypso.  I've read sources that still consider Odysseus a "faithful" husband because he never stopped loving Penelope and persevered in returning home to her (and his kingdom) even though it took 10 years (after the fall of Troy).  His weakness in succumbing to sexual temptation and his physical infidelity is regarded as acceptable in a man of his times.

 

It would be natural and organic for Oliver and Felicity to have gotten together by now, but I also dread it.  As soon as they get together, the EPs will be looking for ways to break them up because - as others have said above- they don't know how to write a good romantic relationship.  Also, I hate that MG put a lot of the Oliver & Felicity relationship build-up scenes (during the hiatus) in his digital comics and not on the TV screen.  It just seems like sacrificing the show in order to sell more comics.  

Edited January 5, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Just read the new TV Line spoiler posted by statsgirl.  Wow, MG is really pushing the next 3 episodes hard ("among the best we've ever done" and "incredibly compelling")!

 

Incidentally, I came across this one writer's expressed concern about Oliver's absence from the next 3 episodes in order to focus on Laurel becoming the BC...

TV: WHY I’M WORRIED ABOUT ARROW
December 11, 2014 • NasimAli
https://nasimali.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/tv-why-im-worried-about-arrow/

Edited January 5, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

After reading that MG quote in the SPOILERS ONLY thread, anyone think Felicity's going to tell Thea that Oliver died for her and why in an effort to get her away from Malcolm now that Oliver's gone? I feel like Felicity would want to ruin his life in every imaginable way, and we were wordering what could keep O/F from being together when he gets back-that could be it. Felicity would be right to do it, but it would take boneheaded Oliver a while to come around to that.

Also, Felicity and Laurel are gonna "bond" over losing Oliver, aren't they? Laurel knowing what it's like from the past, helping Felicity through it in the present?

[looptab]

I thought Felicity might tell Thea, but I'm not sure. I think Oliver would never want Thea to know she murdered someone, much like with Roy, and I believe Felicity knows that. So, maybe? 

Also, I think you're right on Laurel/Felicity. let's prepare ourselves to some greatly cringeworthy moments. :/

P.S. Every time I read that "makes it necessary" next to Laurel suiting up, I want to bang my head on a desk.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Felicity with Laurel?  Nope.  Suicide Squad?  Nope.  I was not a fan of that episode at all.  And if people's predictions are correct that Oliver and Felicity won't get together until May sweeps, I'm not sure when I'll tune in again...nothing coming up sounds interesting at all. 

[apinknightmare]

I thought Felicity might tell Thea, but I'm not sure. I think Oliver would never want Thea to know she murdered someone, much like with Roy, and I believe Felicity knows that. So, maybe?

Also, I think you're right on Laurel/Felicity. let's prepare ourselves to some greatly cringeworthy moments. :/

P.S. Every time I read that "makes it necessary" next to Laurel suiting up, I want to bang my head on a desk.

Yeah, I think she'd leave out the murdering part, but maybe that he used her as leverage to get Oliver to fight Ra's? Just tell her that Malcolm's in deep with some awful people and Oliver wanted to keep her safe?

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, Felicity and Thea can only really share scenes if they center around Oliver being gone, right? And I would think that she would want to protect Thea, because that's what Oliver died for, and also take whatever she could from Malcolm. I guess there's no way to do that without telling her about the Arrow.

 

I really need to stop reading any EP interviews between now and whenever Oliver is back, because they just make me mad. Don't call your episodes without your lead character some of the best you've ever done. Please. Stop making me question whether you're still interested in the central premise of the show.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

Don't call your episodes without your lead character some of the best you've ever done. Please. Stop making me question whether you're still interested in the central premise of the show.

Yeah, that's just...terrible.

[looptab]

Yeah, I think she'd leave out the murdering part, but maybe that he used her as leverage to get Oliver to fight Ra's? Just tell her that Malcolm's in deep with some awful people and Oliver wanted to keep her safe?

I hope so. Actually, maybe I'm in the minority, but I woudn't mind if Felicity kind of blamed her at first, and her association with the psycho-mass.murderer. I'd like to see them being a little adversarial at first, and then  make-up and build a friendship.

[Chaser]

I've said before, but I don't understand why Laurel is suiting up so fast. They really didn't establish any since of urgency in regrads to Laurel. I think to the casual viewer it may come out of left field. I know that the only thing Laurel and Felicity have in common is Oliver, but I really don't want to watch them talk about him. Their experiences are so vastly different, I'm not sure what they can bond on. Maybe Anger? But I don't want Felicity to be Laurel-angry, I want Felicity to be completely devastated...and then go Mafia-Wife on Malcolm. Really, though the 'great scene' could be nothing more then Laurel calling Felicity to help her out when she gets into trouble again. 

 

Felicity/Thea. I think Felicity is going to do whatever it takes to protect Thea and get her away from Malcolm. If that means telling Thea some hard truths, I think she will do it.

[apinknightmare]

I just can't figure out how the fallout from Oliver's death makes it necessary for Laurel to suit up, unless there's a time jump and the city goes to shit. Because he's only been gone for three days-how bad could it be? And even with a time jump, it could only be a few weeks later (to take us from the finale to current time)-I really don't think they'd mess with Arrow/Flash continuity by messing with that. And if things got that bad, why would they have someone who has zero experience going out and fighting and getting hurt instead of calling Barry? That's where the universe sharing would get me.

Do they keep the news of Oliver's death from Quentin too?

[Chaser]

Actually, it may be interesting to see Felicity angry at Thea for her dumb-ass choice to align with Malcolm and at the same time work to protect her. 

[Carrie Ann]

I just can't figure out how the fallout from Oliver's death makes it necessary for Laurel to suit up, unless there's a time jump and the city goes to shit. Because he's only been gone for three days-how bad could it be? And even with a time jump, it could only be a few weeks later (to take us from the finale to current time)-I really don't think they'd mess with Arrow/Flash continuity by messing with that.

 

Well, one way the timey-wimey stuff could go down is if they could make the time jump mid-episode 10, or if we join TA in medias res, with BC suited up and getting her ass kicked in the field with Roy and Dig, and then they use flashbacks to show the team finding out about Oliver.

 

Also, the time jump could cover two months, at least, if the BC Trilogy only covers a short span of time. Given that 310-312 all share one villain, a compressed timeframe seems like a possibility.The show *generally* follows real-time, but not exactly. Some episodes take place within a day of each other, and others make it clear that weeks have passed between them. Last season's final three episodes all took place in like three days, IIRC. So I think they have some room for flexibility--it doesn't have to be exactly six weeks since he "died."

 

And any reference on The Flash can just be sort of vague, until Oliver's alive again. We know there haven't been any crossovers filmed or confirmed yet for the rest of the season, and I'd guess we won't see any until May sweeps if at all, so I don't think fudging a few weeks or even a month would be a problem between the shows.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Chiny11]

I thought Felicity might tell Thea, but I'm not sure. I think Oliver would never want Thea to know she murdered someone, much like with Roy, and I believe Felicity knows that. So, maybe?

Also, I think you're right on Laurel/Felicity. let's prepare ourselves to some greatly cringeworthy moments. :/

P.S. Every time I read that "makes it necessary" next to Laurel suiting up, I want to bang my head on a desk.

Lool @ cringeworthy.

But they could use such an avenue (Laurel bonding with Felicity) to try and get some fans on board the Laurel/BC train. Make her more likeable.

Yeah... Now that I think of it, it probably is going to be cringeworthy. I'm not here for the Felicity/Laurel bff arc.

[Belinea]

So Felicity will blame someone. It will have to be Malcolm or Thea. But I do believe that Thea won't be left in the dark any longer.  I don't know whether or not Felicity would tell her but I am actually looking forward to that arc.

 

I could live without Felicity and Laurel. And not because I don't care for Laurel. I just don't feel like these two would be friends. I find them too different but that is just my opinion. But then again Felicity has to be friends with everyone. In order for the audience to like a character they have to interact with Felicity. 

 

The only interesting aspect of the storyline for me is how Laurel will react to Thea being Sara's killer. Will she let Thea be and go after Malcolm instead? Or will she blame Thea and Felicity has to defend Thea? That is one thing I am curious to see what they'll do with that. Knowing them Laurel won't have a problem with Thea and everyone will be after Malcolm. 

 

Also does that mean that Oliver will definitely be back after 3 episodes? They always refer to it as the 3 episodes after the break. 

[ban1o]

Mmmm I don't really buy Felicity trying to protect Thea at all costs. She barely knows her. and they've had no interaction on the show up until now. I know she cares about Oliver but I don't see it. i think it will be Felicity getting angry with Thea. That would make more sense in my opinion lol. but I'm probably in the minority. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Mmmm I don't really buy Felicity trying to protect Thea at all costs. She barely knows her. I know she cares about Oliver but I don't see it. i think it will be Felicity getting angry with Thea. That would make more sense in my opinion lol. but I'm probably in the minority.

She loves Oliver and Oliver died to protect Thea. You think she'd have his death be for nothing?

[Chiny11]

Isn't it odd that after reading MG quotes in the spoiler thread I more interested in watching the YouTube Fan Reaction videos of the three episodes as opposed to the episodes themselves. And That's not a good thing. :(

[Carrie Ann]

I would sort of love it if Thea is still in the dark about the Arrow stuff, and Felicity finds out she's still seeing Malcolm (or sees them together or something), and just loses it on her and that's how Thea finds out the truth. And after time to recover, I'd love it if she went to Felicity to find out more about Oliver and they forged a friendship that way.

 

I'm just very curious to see how Felicity handles all of this. I want it to be dramatic, but just being sad isn't that interesting to me. She's spent half of 3A in tears already; enough of that. I mean, some tears, yes. But righteous anger would be really satisfying to me. I'd also like it if she went a little cold for awhile. Like, willing to help Ray in a work capacity and even on his suit, but not letting him in personally. Like, shutting Laurel down when she wants Superhero Support. 

[ban1o]

She loves Oliver and Oliver died to protect Thea. You think she'd have his death be for nothing?

mm I guess she'll try and protect Thea. Do you think  she'll tell her the truth though? I kinda feel Thea will continue to be in the dark and the only way to truly protect Thea will be to get her away from her father. And why would Thea believe anything felicity says? She seems pretty stubborn in support for her father. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

mm I guess she'll try and protect Thea. Do you think she'll tell her the truth though? I kinda feel Thea will continue to be in the dark and the only way to truly protect Thea will be to get her away from her father. And why would Thea believe anything felicity says? She seems pretty stubborn in support for her father.

I don't know what she'd tell her, but I absolutely believe she'd try to get her away from Malcolm. She doesn't have to believe Felicity, all Felicity really needs to do is plant a few seeds of doubt in her mind-per the 3x10 synopsis, she already suspects there's more to his disappearance than she thinks.

Edited January 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Lool @ cringeworthy.

But they could use such an avenue (Laurel bonding with Felicity) to try and get some fans on board the Laurel/BC train. Make her more likeable.

Yeah... Now that I think of it, it probably is going to be cringeworthy. I'm not here for the Felicity/Laurel bff arc.

I don't think they'll have them becoming best friends, but even a few "words of wisdom" from Laurel to her would make me cringe :)

 

After Carrie Ann's speculation, I'll be very disappointed now if we won't be seeing Angry!Felicity go against Thea :) You have described exactly what I'd like to see :)

Edited January 5, 2015 by looptab

[TanyaKay]

Well, the synopsis did not just cover three episodes after Oliver's death, it went all the way to 3x14 and the only thing I am looking forward to is Thea/ Felicity interaction.

I would love it to pieces if Felicity goes all Mafia wife (we have seen a hint of it in 2x18 when she gave her blessing to Oliver to do whatever it takes to best Slade) because that was glorious and EBR can really do it well.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Mmmm I don't really buy Felicity trying to protect Thea at all costs. She barely knows her. and they've had no interaction on the show up until now. I know she cares about Oliver but I don't see it. i think it will be Felicity getting angry with Thea. That would make more sense in my opinion lol. but I'm probably in the minority. 

 

I can see it. I can see her being protective of Thea. When Thea was taken by Slade, Felicity helped look for leads and found a plate number. Diggle said something about how she must have gone through thousands of photos to find that clue and she simply said, "It's Thea." And knowing how much Oliver loves his sister? Yeah, I can buy her totally being protective of Thea. I'm really hoping that's where the show goes but not really expecting it.

[apinknightmare]

Well, one way the timey-wimey stuff could go down is if they could make the time jump mid-episode 10, or if we join TA in medias res, with BC suited up and getting her ass kicked in the field with Roy and Dig, and then they use flashbacks to show the team finding out about Oliver.

Also, the time jump could cover two months, at least, if the BC Trilogy only covers a short span of time. Given that 310-312 all share one villain, a compressed timeframe seems like a possibility.The show *generally* follows real-time, but not exactly. Some episodes take place within a day of each other, and others make it clear that weeks have passed between them. Last season's final three episodes all took place in like three days, IIRC. So I think they have some room for flexibility--it doesn't have to be exactly six weeks since he "died."

And any reference on The Flash can just be sort of vague, until Oliver's alive again. We know there haven't been any crossovers filmed or confirmed yet for the rest of the season, and I'd guess we won't see any until May sweeps if at all, so I don't think fudging a few weeks or even a month would be a problem between the shows.

Good point-I just had it in my head that most of 3x10 takes place in the present because of the way the synopsis is written, which is stupid because they wouldn't spoil time jumps.

[TanyaKay]

Felicity helped Laurel when she was extremely busy with helping Diggle and juggling her work and boss at Palmer Tech/Queen Consolidated and she said it herself that she and Laurel are not even friends. So yes, she will protect Thea because that is who she is. Add to that the fact that the man she loved died protecting his sister, she will go all out because Thea is a link, a tenuous one but still a link, that connects Felicity to Oliver, so she will do everything in her power to protect Thea, just like Oliver would've done.

[dtissagirl]

These spoilers are making me super excited about all the other stuff I'm gonna be watching instead of Arrow. JFC.

 

And yeah, I'm still guessing either 310 opens in present time, then flashbacks to December [with flashbacks within flashbacks to Hong Kong, because LOL], or the episode starts 3 days later, but time jumps in the final act [maybe Brick shows up in the end, they've done that like six times already this season], and Laurel as Black Canary is the not-at-all-shocking-anymore cliffhanger.

 

You know what? Maybe they edit things around and Laurel as Black Canary is the opening shot in media res, because it's useless to place it in the DUN DUN DUN last scene anymore.

Edited January 5, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Carrie Ann]

Good point-I just had it in my head that most of 3x10 takes place in the present because of the way the synopsis is written, which is stupid because they wouldn't spoil time jumps.

 

Yeah, just one possibility. But I think it's equally possible/likely that you're right, and 310 will take place immediately after Oliver's death. It would make some narrative sense for 310 to be the episode where the team is just totally flummoxed by his loss, and they take it on the chin from Brick. And then there's a time jump before 311 or 12, and they (I mean, Laurel, let's be real about the purpose of this arc) ultimately defeat him. Seriously no idea how they're going to handle it. And why the Laurel we saw in 309 would just special-order her brand new suit and black lipstick a week later, I have no clue. It's not believable, but nothing in her story is, so I don't use that as marker anymore.

 

Back to how I want Felicity to be full of rage: I would also love it if she refused to help Laurel because Oliver didn't want her to go down this road, but more importantly because of Quentin. As we've all pointed out, if Laurel truly cared about his health and happiness, she wouldn't follow in her sister's footsteps. It would be great if Felicity was like, "Do this, and I'll go directly to your father and tell him that Sara's dead and you're SWF-ing her. Actually, forget it, I'm gonna do that anyway." It won't happen, but it would be so, so sweet.

[looptab]

Nah, Quentin will find out in 314..wasn't it someone on this board suggesting Slade would tell him? He is the truth-teller, afterall :P

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, just one possibility. But I think it's equally possible/likely that you're right, and 310 will take place immediately after Oliver's death. It would make some narrative sense for 310 to be the episode where the team is just totally flummoxed by his loss, and they take it on the chin from Brick. And then there's a time jump before 311 or 12, and they (I mean, Laurel, let's be real about the purpose of this arc) ultimately defeat him. Seriously no idea how they're going to handle it. And why the Laurel we saw in 309 would just special-order her brand new suit and black lipstick a week later, I have no clue. It's not believable, but nothing in her story is, so I don't use that as marker anymore.

 

Back to how I want Felicity to be full of rage: I would also love it if she refused to help Laurel because Oliver didn't want her to go down this road, but more importantly because of Quentin. As we've all pointed out, if Laurel truly cared about his health and happiness, she wouldn't follow in her sister's footsteps. It would be great if Felicity was like, "Do this, and I'll go directly to your father and tell him that Sara's dead and you're SWF-ing her. Actually, forget it, I'm gonna do that anyway." It won't happen, but it would be so, so sweet.

 

I had/have no plans of dropping the show despite my lack of enthusiasm about Oliver being gone and Laurel doing whatever it is that she's doing, and I find myself morbidly (like, watching a train wreck kind of morbid) curious about what exactly they're going to do with her. Is she going to decide not to be BC after 3x13, or realize that she's just not ready yet? And I want to know how this costume comes into play. I'm sure it won't be explained how she gets it, but god it's going to look so terrible if she just shows up in it like she's had it and was waiting around for the perfect vigilante-ing time to use it, because why would she need a costume to go after Sara's murderer? It's not like she had any reason to just have one laying around. 

 

I would be so here for Felicity, Full of Rage. Like that quiet, calm kind of rage that's the scariest kind. I think we're going to get some version of it - just not sure who exactly it's going to be directed at. Malcolm, most likely - maybe Thea for a bit. I don't think she'd stay angry with Thea for long though - she knows how much her family has kept from her and how messed up she is about that. I think she'd want to shake her out of her Merlyn fog more than anything, and make her realize that sometimes no family is better than fucked-up family. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. I think my one thread of hope for these episodes of doom and gloom and Arrowless is if Felicity, Diggle and Roy take on Malcolm to save Thea's soul FOR Oliver, in his honor. THAT I'd like to watch. Seeing any other people getting new Halloween costumes? Zzzzzzyawn.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm absolutely here for the reactions to the next four episodes, and I find myself hoping things go as badly as I'm expecting them to.  But I figure that I don't need to actually watch the show to gauge how things are going, you guys will do that for me.  Now, if the response is terrible, I might wring my hands in glee and catch the next four eps. at some point just so I can point and laugh with you all.  We shall see. 

[Carrie Ann]

And I want to know how this costume comes into play. I'm sure it won't be explained how she gets it, but god it's going to look so terrible if she just shows up in it like she's had it and was waiting around for the perfect vigilante-ing time to use it, because why would she need a costume to go after Sara's murderer? It's not like she had any reason to just have one laying around. 

 

[...]

 

I don't think she'd stay angry with Thea for long though - she knows how much her family has kept from her and how messed up she is about that. I think she'd want to shake her out of her Merlyn fog more than anything, and make her realize that sometimes no family is better than fucked-up family. 

 

To your first point about Laurel's suit--it's going to be extra awkward if they don't address where it came from after showing Oliver getting his upgraded by Cisco in 308, and the Arrow 2.5 comic that came out today showed Oliver giving Roy his suit too. I mean, yeah, we don't ever see them ordering the parts, but we know they do this. So who gave Laurel the contact for her suit? Who came up with the specs? I really don't want that to be Felicity, for about a million reasons, but seriously who else is there? I guess she could just take Sara's bloody suit to some random person and be like, "Hmm, like this, only I hate these pants...let's add more buckles!!!"

 

To your second point--now I kind of want Team Arrow to become Thea's family, the way they have become Oliver's. That's the kind of new member integration that makes sense for me, on a character level and a plot level. Not automatically, but over time, it would be nice to see her find her place with them.