Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tv echo]

Hopefully if the 8 episode Agent Carter show does well, the CW will be more open to the idea of a shorter Arrow season supplemented with BoP (especially with a really good Barbara Gordon who could center the show) and Suicide Squad mini-shows. I think it would help both Arrow and the other(s).

Like others here, I think this season is partly to test the feasibility of Atom and Birds of Prey spin-offs.  With the success of Arrow and The Flash, the EPs have to be riding high in Hollywood, and Warner Bros./DC likely want to expand their TV mini-verse.  So they cast well-known Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer and try him out on Arrow.  I know Laurel has been an unpopular character, but the EPs are working hard to change that this season - and I've already seen some signs of a change in her reception.  I've seen more positive comments about her after the last episode in critics' reviews, and I've seen a lot of positive comments about the new BC costume onine (buckles aside).  Once Laurel starts kicking ass out in the field in her cool new costume, we'll likely see a lot more positive comments. 

 

While I don't think a Buckle Canary - er, Black Canary spin-off is feasible (I don't think they'll risk basing a show solely on Laurel, no matter what), there's a good possibility that a BOP spin-off would work, esp. if they cast Helena and Barbara really, really well.  Personally, if a BOP spin-off means that Laurel leaves Arrow, then I'm all for it.  Arrow should be primarily about the Arrow and his team.

 

I'm less certain about a Suicide Squad spin-off.  There's going to be a Suicide Squad movie.  While I know that the DC movie and TV universes are going to be different, it might be too confusing to launch both a Suicide Squad move and TV show with different casts at about the same time.

Edited November 16, 2014 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Agreed.  I'm leaning towards Thea being Sara's killer as well.  Sara put her mask back on right before she was killed, so Thea wouldn't have recognized her as Sara Lance.  But Sara would've recognized Thea and been surprised to see her there.  Motive?  Sara was in Starling City to track down Malcolm, who's wanted by the LOA.  Malcolm could've fed Thea a BS story about a masked female assassin trying to kill him - or maybe lied to Thea and said this assassin was after Oliver.  If he gets Thea to kill, then he has more hold over her.  Thea being the killer would create more tension and conflict among the other characters.  And your theory about why Oliver goes to Ra's would also work.

Amell said in the set interview that Sara's murder is the most convoluted plot the show ever came up with: http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/arrow-star-stephen-amell-teases-the-return-of-nyssa-and-the-arrival-of-ras-al-ghul

It might be that Thea didn't kill Sara after all, but if Oliver thinks she did, or the LoA thinks she did, it's enough to advance the plot.

Or if Malcolm is using some mind control ninja mojo on Thea, and she did do it -- she might not know what she did. Malcolm is the one pointing fingers at Ra's anyway. Diversion tactics? Or does he have ulterior motive? Why is he setting up Oliver against the LoA? I just can't help but think "convoluted" equals Malcolm being heavily involved.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Amell said in the set interview that Sara's murder is the most convoluted plot the show ever came up with: http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/arrow-star-stephen-amell-teases-the-return-of-nyssa-and-the-arrival-of-ras-al-ghul

 

Convoluted: (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.

 

Incohesive? Incoherent? Inconceivable?  

 

The pay out better be worth the shallow grave.

[dtissagirl]

Heh, Arrow's idea of convoluted is incoherent. I mean. This is the same show wherein Amanda Waller populated an island with a bunch of whacky dudes so they could wait AN ENTIRE YEAR for China White to board a plane so they could shoot it off the sky.

 

But it's kinda hilarious that they're going for "complex" here when both previous Big Bads were incredibly Occam's Razor-y: Malcolm version 1.0 wanted all poor people to die because his wife did, and Slade wanted to make Oliver suffer because Shado + crazy. The end.

 

I don't have much faith this time around is gonna be any different, I'm just trying to follow the clues in the spoilers. It doesn't seem like Amell asked for the time off, so it's gotta be plot-motivated, and sure, it's most likely they're trying to showcase KC as Black Canary and see how that goes. But they still need an in-text reason for Oliver to be gone, and Thea is as good a reason as any.

Edited November 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[looptab]

 Malcolm is the one pointing fingers at Ra's anyway. Diversion tactics? Or does he have ulterior motive? Why is he setting up Oliver against the LoA? I just can't help but think "convoluted" equals Malcolm being heavily involved.

I agree. I'm convinced Malcolm is behind all this, but I think it'll all turn and bite him, leading to him and Oliver teaming up (likely if Thea becomes involved somehow).

[Axel]

Convoluted sounds like it makes no sense even to him

 

Ray and salmon ladder is creepy. Is it contest with Cupid ? Like everybody thinks Cupid is the crazy stalker and no one realizes who is bigger psycho in town ?

 

 

Are we sure the Sara murder mystery is solved by 309? They have a "shocking new suspect" in that episode, per Natalie Abrams's set visit: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/11/13/vancouver-sets-arrow-once-flash-bates/

This happened in the last day of shooting 309, and she watched a Trio Team Arrow scene being shot. This was also the same day Kreisberg tweeted he was on set watching EBR and Amell acting their butts off.

I'm thinking this new suspect might be Thea. For Oliver to risk going up the mountain to confront Ra's, it's gotta be personal. But then he's missing for 2 episodes, so what, he found out it's really Thea? And since she killed a LoA member there's a target on her head, and he exchanged himself for her?

Of course it might have nothing to do with Thea, but I'm really wondering what would justify Oliver being offscreen for so long, and this would be a good enough reason.

 

I thought about something like that too. Maybe they give someone totally unexpected in 309 (Thea, Diggle, Lyla, Tommy resurrected, Oliver himself whatever...) who leads Oliver to the League only for it to be revealed by 312/313 as a ploy to keep him away from SC and the murderer ends up being the most obvious, the League because they didn't trust Sara anymore.

[pivot]

This show being named Arrow is misleading, I've always felt. It's always been about Oliver AND Laurel's development into heroes. There's a reason they originally wanted to call it Starling IIRC.

If they were going to do that, they should have made sure that the two actors had chemistry with one another and that they both had the acting ability to carry 1/2 a show. KC and SA have no chemistry with one another. KC had chemistry with Tommy, but none with SA. And KC just doesn't have the skills to carry 1/2 a show.

I do feel like they are using Arrow to launch another series whether it is Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey or the Atom show. I find it frustrating because it is wasting precious show time on characters I am uninterested in and putting Team Arrow in the background. However, if it gets Laurel off the show at the end of the season, I am all for it.

[statsgirl]

Convoluted sounds like it makes no sense even to him

 

Ray and salmon ladder is creepy. Is it contest with Cupid ? Like everybody thinks Cupid is the crazy stalker and no one realizes who is bigger psycho in town ?

 

 

 

LOL, if only that were the case. I wonder if Ray is SWMing Oliver, taking over QC, doing the salmon ladder, going after his love interest?  It would be a good parallel, Cupid in a red dress because Felicity wore one and Ray doing the salmon ladder because it's Oliver's.

 

I think I'd enjoy that more than what's probably going to happen, which is Ray is a good guy, albeit weird, and  he's going to join Oliver's crusade to clean up Starling... er I mean Star City.

I do feel like they are using Arrow to launch another series whether it is Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey or the Atom show. I find it frustrating because it is wasting precious show time on characters I am uninterested in and putting Team Arrow in the background. However, if it gets Laurel off the show at the end of the season, I am all for it.

But what if it doesn't work and there is no BoP spin-off?  We're left with Laurel being a costumed vigilante and working with Team Arrow in the lair because there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle.

 

If the original intention had been to put Oliver's and Laurel's stories side by side,  maybe I would still be watching the show but this way with KC playing Laurel.  As it is, I thought Roy got really short-changed on his big mirakuru cop-killing story line because the episode was given to Laurel. 

[Password]

Well Cupid is a conduit for Oliver and Felicity. I wonder in what way...but it would be just hilarious if they show the parallel between Cupid crazy and Ray crazy.

...then again maybe not because Felicity is going to fall for this guy.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Limbo

[Genki]

A couple of new previews of "Draw Back Your Bow" from Asia (per SpoilerTV). The first one includes Thea and her possible new LI. The other has more Cupid and Oliver interaction, plus bonus Detective Lance sighting — HERE

 

 

Love the title card, Heart Arrow change in the Asian in promo. also seeing some more Thea (but not floppy haired DJ LI)

 

Out of all the promos for this episode, I love the extended US one.

I love the cheekiness of Dylan Dray's "Pretty Thing", the focus on Cupid and how she is completely messing with Oliver.

Amy Gumenick seems committed to the crazy in an entertaining way.

Just makes it seem fun.

[Axel]

Well Cupid is a conduit for Oliver and Felicity. I wonder in what way...but it would be just hilarious if they show the parallel between Cupid crazy and Ray crazy.

...then again maybe not because Felicity is going to fall for this guy.

 

Maybe Felicity likes them a bit crazy 

 

LOL, if only that were the case. I wonder if Ray is SWMing Oliver, taking over QC, doing the salmon ladder, going after his love interest?  It would be a good parallel, Cupid in a red dress because Felicity wore one and Ray doing the salmon ladder because it's Oliver's.

 

I think I'd enjoy that more than what's probably going to happen, which is Ray is a good guy, albeit weird, and  he's going to join Oliver's crusade to clean up Starling... er I mean Star City.

 

 

 

Yeah, I expect him to be a boring good guy too, it's just so weird to put this in the same episode than Cupid lol They really want to give him everything Oliver's

[Tangerine]

Love the title card, Heart Arrow change in the Asian in promo. also seeing some more Thea (but not floppy haired DJ LI)

 

Out of all the promos for this episode, I love the extended US one.

I love the cheekiness of Dylan Dray's "Pretty Thing", the focus on Cupid and how she is completely messing with Oliver.

Amy Gumenick seems committed to the crazy in an entertaining way.

Just makes it seem fun.

 

I generally don't care for the whole 'psycho obsessive female trope', but I can't wait to see Amy Gumenick embrace full-on crazy because we need some fun back in this show. And it does make me wonder what Cupid's back story will be and how similar it'll be to her comic book origins. She seems to be able to be able to hold her own in a fight.

 

What are the chances Malcolm sticks an arrow in Thea's new love interest?

Edited November 16, 2014 by Tangerine

[SmallScreenDiva]

She definitely seems to be able to hold her own against Oliver. Could she have had training before her obsession with the Arrow began? Did she have prior training in the comics? Because she managed to flip and handcuff him in that rail tracks scene.

[Sunshine]

I was wondering if the reason Cupid and Ray are in the same episode was to kind of parallel the situations they have chosen.  One of Cupid's questions to Oliver is ...who's watching out for you?

 

In this episode Felicity sees shirtless Ray on the salmon ladder.  He gives (loans?) her a beautiful dress & necklace to wear for a work dinner.  (This is similar to the Dodger episode in Season 1.  They just didn't show it onscreen.)  I don't think she knows it is a date.  The kiss may be after the dinner.  There is a shot of her looking sad/pensive. I have read where some assume she is in the lair in that scene.  I think maybe she is in the office looking out over the city which accounts for the lighting.  It looks like she is getting everything she thinks she wants.  The only problem is it's the wrong guy.  (Can you tell I am clinging to the idea of Ray as a potential love interest and not an actual one?)

 

I guess it makes more sense to me for Oliver & Felicity to be working towards each other before Oliver and the literal cliff hanger happens in 3.09 and thus rips them apart again.  

 

   

 

    

[catrox14]

This is similar to the Dodger episode in Season 1. They just didn't show it onscreen.)

As far as we know, Ray is giving Felicity those things to woo her vs. Oliver giving those to her as part of the job to catch the dodger. I just don't see that parallel at all.

[statsgirl]

I guess it makes more sense to me for Oliver & Felicity to be working towards each other before Oliver and the literal cliff hanger happens in 3.09 and thus rips them apart again.  

I think they have to do this because if Oliver and Felicity are still as far apart as they are now and Oliver goes missing and it's all Laurel and Ray in January, I think a number of viewers won't be watching.  I'm still looking for a reason to watch then.

 

 

As far as we know, Ray is giving Felicity those things to woo her vs. Oliver giving those to her as part of the job to catch the dodger.

Ray could be giving her the dress because he needs her at a work dinner and she doesn't have anything with her.

Edited November 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[HighHopes]

As far as we know, Ray is giving Felicity those things to woo her vs. Oliver giving those to her as part of the job to catch the dodger. I just don't see that parallel at all.

Do we know that for sure though? Because the episode description calls it a "work dinner" (or something like that) doesn't it? Both were for work, both were for "jobs". Both were bought for her by guys who are interested in her. To me there is no difference. 

[Tangerine]

She definitely seems to be able to hold her own against Oliver. Could she have had training before her obsession with the Arrow began? Did she have prior training in the comics? Because she managed to flip and handcuff him in that rail tracks scene.

 

In the comics

Carrie Cutter was a special ops agent so she did have training beforehand. She saw something traumatic while on a mission and underwent an experiment that basically jacked up her emotions to infinity, which is why she grew obsessed so easily. She thought that her husband abandoned her and killed him. GA thought that it was a domestic abuse situation and shot an arrow at him, and she picks up his arrow and becomes obsessed with him.

There is a scene with her dressed normally picking up one of Oliver's arrows, so I wonder if there will be a parallel there.

 

Which means that if she does have prior training, it makes certain characters becoming instant superheros even more unrealistic.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Tangerine

[Sunshine]

I think they have to do this because if Oliver and Felicity are still as far apart as they are now and Oliver goes missing and it's all Laurel and Ray in January, I think a number of viewers won't be watching.  I'm still looking for a reason to watch then.

 

Ray could be giving her the dress because he needs her at a work dinner and she doesn't have anything with her.

This is me.  If Felicity has actually moved on to Ray I am not sure why I would be tuning in.  Someone on screen has to care that Oliver isn't around  .My main reason for watching has always been Oliver/Felicity/Diggle a/k/a Original Team Arrow.  If that is gone and the first couple of winter episodes are Laurel & Ray heavy including a Felicity & Ray romantic relationship why do I even care if Oliver makes it back?   

[catrox14]

Ray could be giving her the dress because he needs her at a work dinner and she doesn't have anything with her.

If Felicity is already at work and she wears what she did working as the EA for Oliver and it's not a black tie affair, any one of those would be appropriate for a work dinner. I don't know why he would give her another one. And the necklace doesn't even need to be worn for a work dinner. But we will see.

[Genki]

Do we know that for sure though? Because the episode description calls it a "work dinner" (or something like that) doesn't it? Both were for work, both were for "jobs". Both were bought for her by guys who are interested in her. To me there is no difference. 

 

Was Oliver "interested" in her at that stage? I think he was heavily compartmentalising then and Oliver's reaction to Felicity in the gold dress was the first time he became very aware of Felicity as hot.

 

I really not sure where they are going with the Ray parallels, I think the salmon ladder feels like point the show is crossing a line into SWFM

[catrox14]

Do we know that for sure though? Because the episode description calls it a "work dinner" (or something like that) doesn't it? Both were for work, both were for "jobs". Both were bought for her by guys who are interested in her. To me there is no difference.

It wasn't clear to me that back when the dodger episode happened that Oliver was really aware of his feelings for Felicity so for me that was for a mission and not Olivers personal pleasure particularly IMO.

[apinknightmare]

Do we know that for sure though? Because the episode description calls it a "work dinner" (or something like that) doesn't it? Both were for work, both were for "jobs". Both were bought for her by guys who are interested in her. To me there is no difference. 

 

I think it depends on how it's presented.

 

Since Oliver buying Felicity that dress wasn't shown, we can't really be sure how it went down. I can imagine Felicity telling him that she didn't really have anything appropriate on such short notice, and Oliver being all shoulder shruggingly nonchalant about it, telling her he'll buy her something. It's in a different context for me because I don't think there were feelings at play, and I fully believe Oliver provided both Diggle and Felicity with anything they would've needed to complete a mission for him and his crusade back when he was financially able to. I'm 100% sure Felicity picked out that dress and Oliver just paid for it.

 

With Ray...did he just have the dress or surprise her with something she didn't pick out herself? It looks like he did, but we'll see. To me? A little creepy. Did he have to give/loan her a necklace? That's got some romantic overtones so...again, we'll see how it plays out. The promo pics have the distinct feeling that Ray's wooing Felicity, although it could play out differently on screen. There's no doubt in my mind that Oliver was only providing Felicity with a dress for an event that he absolutely needed her to attend, no hidden agenda whatsoever.

Edited November 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Tangerine]

I think it depends on how it's presented.

 

Since Oliver buying Felicity that dress wasn't shown, we can't really be sure how it went down. I can imagine Felicity telling him that she didn't really have anything appropriate on such short notice, and Oliver being all shoulder shruggingly nonchalant about it, telling her he'll buy her something. It's in a different context for me because I don't think there were feelings at play, and I fully believe Oliver provided both Diggle and Felicity with anything they would've needed to complete a mission for him and his crusade back when he was financially able to. I'm 100% sure Felicity picked out that dress and Oliver just paid for it.

 

With Ray...did he just have the dress or surprise her with something she didn't pick out herself? It looks like he did, but we'll see. To me? A little creepy. Did he have to give/loan her a necklace? That's got some romantic overtones so...again, we'll see how it plays out. The promo pics have the distinct feeling that Ray's wooing Felicity, although it could play out differently on screen. There's no doubt in my mind that Oliver was only providing Felicity with a dress for an event that he absolutely needed her to attend, no hidden agenda whatsoever.

 

Agreed. And for all we know, Felicity could have said "I don't have anything to wear to such a fancy occasion" and Oliver just handed over his credit card in Dodger.

 

I think we just have to wait and see how it plays out. If it was last minute and Felicity said she didn't have anything to wear or time to change and Ray said "Well my assistant can pick something up for you." That's different then "Why, I just happen to have this dress right here that I've been imagining you wearing since I saw you in that blue golf shirt at Tech Village."

 

I generally hate the we're supposed to accept the "Guy buys girl beautiful dress" trope as romantic though. To me it's just creepy and controlling. But then again I'm very particular about what it is I put on my body. (Ah, the good old Arrow days...)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Tangerine

[Chaser]

The whole date is so heavy headed and there has been no romantic build up (IMO). I got that Ray is interested in Felicity, but it always felt like more of an intellectual level and the one time it felt personal (Secret Origin) it was just a decent human being moment. I thought if they were going to position Ray as a serious romantic rival there would be something more. Because of that, I figured they wouldn't start until after mid season, so this super fancy date really throws me. But if it is a red-herring and the relationship doesn't really start until Oliver is gone, I would be really annoyed; I don't want this heart breaking good bye and then come back to Felicity being lovey with Ray. 

 

I know some people are super happy with Felicity having a relationship with Ray because of the whole life out of the lair and Oliver getting his act together. But I personally don't want to see Felicity broken over Oliver and then moving on quickly to another guy to 'get over it'. That actually isn't healthy. I just want to see her focus on her new job (which she seems to love) instead of being hung up on a guy that won't be there for her. To me that gets the point across just fine.

 

Wait and See I guess

 

ETA: I had some preconceived ideas about how the Ray and Felicity relationship would go down. Oliver being gone really changes how I view this potential romance (which I wasn't a fan of to being this). I'm now even more negative about it.

Edited November 16, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[quarks]

I don't have numbers for Arrow specifically, but CBS continues to state in their quarterly earnings reports that CW shows make most of their revenue in post-views, and specifically post-season post views.  So in terms of overall revenue, which I'm assuming is the main interest of all of the executives involved here, the main goal is how viewers in general regard the season, not January episodes, which also aren't sweeps months. And for what it's worth, Arrow season two seems to have sold very well despite fan complaints about mid season episodes.

 

So with that in the background - if you are going to do the traditional moment of a hero story where the hero has to leave the team (something that most action shows do at least once), and you want to show the impact on the team/the city he leaves behind, the best moment to do so does seem to be January: it doesn't impact sweeps months, while also allowing you to set up your major May stuff and ensure that the end of the season leaves everyone if not happy at least satisfied enough to marathon the show later. That's more or less what the show did in its first two seasons (Laurel heavy, non-season arc episodes in January, followed by season arc episodes from February on), and from the revenue point of view, it seems to be working, so repeating this makes sense. If this also lets them give their main actor a bit of a break, additional bonus. 

 

Felicity/Ray - I really don't think the romantic element has been set up well for this apparent date, but I also think that's the point - the show doesn't really want us cheering on Felicity/Ray, so we're getting Felicity telling him that he's stalking her and giving him "you have got to be kidding me" looks when he shows up at her apartment pre coffee, plus her uncertain looks in the stills.  If they actually wanted to put Felicity in a match with the perfect guy for her who is a real threat to Oliver, they'd match her up with Barry - given his superspeed, he easily could be running over to Starling to hang out with her on a regular basis while still spending most of his time in Central City.  They want to match her up with a guy who will make us cheer for Oliver even though he's the sort of guy who kisses a girl while breaking up with her like SETTING THE BAR VERY LOW THERE, OLIVER.

[DrSpaceman10]

There's always the possibility that Felicity/Ray kiss in 3x07 and then decide not to pursue a romantic relationship. Then Oliver gets his act together in 3x09 (culminating in "the greatest Olicity scene ever") wherein Oliver/Felicity decide to pursue a romantic relationship and then Oliver (tragically) gets taken against his will to Nanda Parbat resulting in an Oliver/Felicity separation. Ray and Felicity could still have a friendship/superhero partnership even though they're not in a romantic relationship.

 

This is probably not what is going to happen though...

Edited November 16, 2014 by drspaceman10

[wonderwall]

There's always the possibility that Felicity/Ray kiss in 3x07 and then decide not to pursue a romantic relationship. Then Oliver gets his act together in 3x09 (culminating in "the greatest Olicity scene ever") wherein Oliver/Felicity decide to pursue a romantic relationship and then Oliver (tragically) gets taken against his will to Nanda Parbat resulting in an Oliver/Felicity separation. Ray and Felicity could still have a friendship/superhero partnership even though they're not in a romantic relationship.

 

This is probably not what is going to happen though...

I would like this to happen the most. Which means this ain't gonna happen -_- 

 

God dammit

[statsgirl]

This is probably not what is going to happen though...

it's what should happen though.  If Oliver and Felicity are still at odds when he goes missing, it's not as strong a story.

 

Barry is the perfect nerd match for Felicity but he's not the perfect billionaire CEO match, that's why they had to ramp it up for Ray.

 

I think we'll have a better sense of the direction of the show after the next episode. They spent the first part of the season putting the players in place, now it's time to get them moving. MG said that we would know more about why Ray is in Starling City and what he wants at the end of the 3x07 episode; presumably we'll have a better sense of Felicity's relationship with Ray when we find out about the dinner and the dress, and what sort of a conduit Cupid is for Oliver and Felicity i.e. whether she brings them together to resolve some issues or whether Oliver gives up on Felicity and lets her move on to Ray.  And then there's also Thea's new DJ and whether Malcolm Merlyn cares.

[apinknightmare]

There's always the possibility that Felicity/Ray kiss in 3x07 and then decide not to pursue a romantic relationship. Then Oliver gets his act together in 3x09 (culminating in "the greatest Olicity scene ever") wherein Oliver/Felicity decide to pursue a romantic relationship and then Oliver (tragically) gets taken against his will to Nanda Parbat resulting in an Oliver/Felicity separation. Ray and Felicity could still have a friendship/superhero partnership even though they're not in a romantic relationship.

 

This is probably not what is going to happen though...

 

Sadly I think the "greatest Olicity scene ever" is going to be them saying goodbye to each other. They're going to lay it all out on the line because they think it's the last chance they'll have to do it, I'll bet.

[statsgirl]

I'd take that scene over Oliver telling Felicity that since he can't be with her, he's glad she's found someone else who will be good to her.

[dtissagirl]

I'm hoping this dress and necklace work date thing will finally show me what Palmer is really about, because so far I see nothing beneath the surface.

The EPs kept talking him up as a worthy adversary to Oliver before the season started, but right now, if you tell me he's the absent minded professor type whose brain never stops, so he gets Felicity the dress and necklace because those are things he can easily solve, no thought at all about how controlling that looks, I'll buy it. Just as I'll buy it if he's never heard "no" in his life before, and believes the way to woo women is giving them shiny pretty things in exchange for sex. Or if he's really stalking Felicity, or stalking Oliver and using Felicity to get to him. It's all valid possibilities to me.

So, yeah, fingers very crossed this episode tells us something -- anything -- about Palmer that makes me wake up during his scenes.

Edited November 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

Yeah I see nothing super deep about Ray and Felicity's affection for each other yet which is why I hope the whole kiss thing is a sort of fake out. All I see is two people who talk about tech and have witty banters. I don't see how Ray understands Felicity on a deeper level and vice versa. Maybe it's because they don't really have a lot of screentime to establish this, but I was hoping they WOULD establish it before they ever kissed. Unfortunately not. If I am to buy a romance between the two, I need something less superficial and something deeper. Only then will I find it to be a real contender to Oliver/Felicity. 

[HighHopes]

 

Was Oliver "interested" in her at that stage? I think he was heavily compartmentalising then and Oliver's reaction to Felicity in the gold dress was the first time he became very aware of Felicity as hot.

 

 

I think in interviews it was said that Ray wasn't interested in Felicity romantically and was purely after her for her abilities- so similar to Oliver. But the difference is here we know that he's a potential love interest. Back then the Olicity ship was more of a crack ship (from what I've read. I wasn't in the fandom then). Ray seeing Felicity in the blue dress could be the same- it could be the moment that he sees her as someone besides a business partner. 

 

Though I agree the Oliver/Ray parallels are a bit heavy handed. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe that necklace Ray gives Felicity is one of those smart wearables he makes and they're testing it out by getting super close and...yeah, I'm gonna get off this crazy train (also because I just remembered she's not wearing the necklace in the pics where they go in for the kiss).

 

WHAT IF THE NECKLACE IS A SMART WEARABLE AND FELICITY DOESN'T KNOW AND SHE GOES DOWN INTO THE FOUNDRY WITH IT ON...

 

(^ sorry for the all caps, I got myself all excited)

Edited November 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Tangerine]

If Ray and Felicity are going to be in an actual relationship, I'd love for Felicity to realize that despite the similarities between Ray and Oliver and despite the fact that Ray is more emotionally open and available, that it's not enough.

[statsgirl]

WHAT IF THE NECKLACE IS A SMART WEARABLE AND FELICITY DOESN'T KNOW AND SHE GOES DOWN INTO THE FOUNDRY WITH IT ON...

That would be proof that the writers are watching General Hospital since they just did that storyline.

 

Although I have to say, I've been waiting and waiting for a wearable that would replace having to carry my mobile phone around, Giving me access to the internet would be a bonus.

 

I think Brandon Routh said that Ray went after Felicity for her tech expertise and then when he met her, he found her more "fetching" than he had imagined.

 

One big advantage Ray has over Oliver is that he's according Felicity her due in terms of her brains, unlike Oliver who made her his EA.

 

I wonder if they're going to do Ray/Felicity half-assed because they don't want to upset the fandom too much just when they're going to make Laurel the Black Canary?

 

ETA:  so it looks like Ted Grant will be back in Uprising ep 3x12.  Just in time for Oliver's return.

Edited November 17, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

That would be proof that the writers are watching General Hospital since they just did that storyline.

 

I was just trying to figure out a way for him to give her the necklace that wouldn't be creepy. Although that WOULD be creepy, it'd be creepy in a different kind of way, and I figured since the EPs said we'd have a clue of what Ray was up to at the end of the ep, maybe that could play into it, although...I'm not really sure how that would work. And he'd have to give it to her specifically to get information at whatever dinner they're going to. It'd be a great twist though, so I don't have much hope, haha.

 

 

I wonder if they're going to do Ray/Felicity half-assed because they don't want to upset the fandom too much just when they're going to make Laurel the Black Canary?

 

They tend to do a lot of the relationships on this show half-assed, so I'm not sure if we'd be able to tell if it was on purpose or not!

Edited November 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

Oh man, if the necklace is a piece of tech I'd pay attention IN A SECOND. Hell, make the DRESS some sort of prototype smart fabric thing Palmer came up with and I'll become a fan. Just give me anything other than the 50 Shades Pretty Woman ripoff it looks like right now.

[statsgirl]

 

They tend to do a lot of the relationships on this show half-assed, so I'm not sure if we'd be able to tell if it was on purpose or not!

LOL.

It looks like Ray is making an announcement at the podium and Felicity is beside him. It's possible the necklace is a bonus for her work and in Ray's weird way, jewelry is an acceptable bonus for an attractive woman.  Especially if it's wearable tech, which would be perfect for Felicity.

 

On the other hand, a necklace to spy on what she does in her complicated life would be fun too.

[Guest]

You guys have seriously got me hoping that the necklace is some kind of spy necklace. I WANT THAT SO BAD. They did say we'd find out more about Ray's intentions in 307 and I don't think they meant his intentions with Felicity so now I'm connecting all the creepy stalker-y dots and I hope he's all suspicious of…things. If he can create a watch that has wi-fi he can do things with a fancy necklace.

 

I'm just setting myself up for disappointment aren't I? 

[apinknightmare]

^Hey, they're called "smart wearables!" ;)

 

I wish I had never had the idea because now I want it to be a tech necklace so badly and I don't want to be disappointed.

Edited November 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

It would almost be interesting if because Oliver had a tracker on his suit in The Calm that they checked for bugs and the necklace set off the detector. However, I'd feel a thousand times sadder than if Ray and Felicity just couldn't make it work.

 

I doubt though they planned far enough into the season when they wrote E1 to tie the two together. They probably don't remember the tracker.

[Sunshine]

If Ray and Felicity are going to be in an actual relationship, I'd love for Felicity to realize that despite the similarities between Ray and Oliver and despite the fact that Ray is more emotionally open and available, that it's not enough.

You put it much more succinctly than I did but this is what I was trying to say. I am hoping this is how 3.07 plays out.  All of those promo photos make me think they are trying to do so many Ray Palmer/Oliver Queen comparisons in one episode.  This does not mean that if Felicity thinks Oliver is gone for good in 3B that she might not get into a romantic relationship with Palmer.  I just don't think it is happening in the next 3 episodes. Here's hoping Wednesday night doesn't prove me wrong.   If they are really going on/off, on/off ad nauseam then isn't it time for on before Oliver disappears?  If Felicity/Ray do go romantic doesn't it make sense that would happen right before Oliver reappears in SC?

 

If 3.01 is the extent of the professional rivalry, I hope 3.07 is the extent of the personal rivalry.  If they are going to establish Ray as a hero -super or otherwise-they need to start focusing on that early in 3B so he is in place around the time Oliver returns.  Are we sure Oliver is only missing from SC for 310-311?    

 

I agree with whomever said that if they are completely honest with each other in 3.09 it's because they think it's the last opportunity to do so - dire circumstance and all that.

[Sunshine]

In 3.07 Oliver is supposed to see someone therapist-ish per MG.  I jokingly said Cupid was going to the Suicide Squad so Oliver would see Harley Quinn.  I am guessing Oliver is talking to Diggle about Felicity moving on with her life.  If so, I hope Diggle offers some real words of wisdom.  AK tweeted that F&D had a big scene in 3.07.  It may just be what looks like the siege flashbacks.  I certainly hope it's not Dig encouraging her to move on.  (Isn't that funny.  In real life that is exactly what a good friend would do.  However, Dig knows Oliver "doesn't want to die down here" so I am hoping he doesn't.  Yes. I know that sounds hypocritical.) 

[Guest]

I agree, there's no time for Ray/Felicity to properly get together before the winter hiatus. Aside from the fact that there has been zero build up - like seriously we went from 305 where she said he was just her boss and was weirded out that he was at her house to a date and kiss in 307 and no build up in between. They can't suddenly jump into a relationship too.

 

The crossover takes place in 308 which I doubt has time for Ray scenes. Then 309 probably has all the shit hitting the fan and likely a major Olicity scene. If Ray/Felicity do start a relationship I doubt it happens in the next three episodes. I'd say it happens sometime around 311, 312 if I had to guess.

[statsgirl]

BR was contracted for 16 episodes (although it may be 18, I can't quite remember and I don't think MG could either).  He wasn't in 3x04 or 3x06 so he's got at least 12 more to go which takes him to 3x18, 3x19 if he's not in the Flash crossover one either.  They're going to have to up his storyline to justify all those episodes and how much the actor must cost.

 

I hope Diggle talks to Oliver about the idea that Felicity is moving on.  Boy needs a slap upside the head if he thinks she should wait to see if he ever is available for her.  I hope Diggle doesn't talk about it to Felicity though. It  has to be on Oliver to decide what he wants and to make a move.

 

 

The crossover takes place in 308 which I doubt has time for Ray scenes. Then 309 probably has all the shit hitting the fan and likely a major Olicity scene. If Ray/Felicity do start a relationship I doubt it happens in the next three episodes. I'd say it happens sometime around 311, 312 if I had to guess.

If Oliver and Felicity have a touching scene in 3x09, I don't want her to start a relationship with Ray while he's gone and she's worrying about him.  Although if the scene in 3x09 is Oliver telling her to move on with her life and date Ray, I will throw things at the TV.

 

It would almost be interesting if because Oliver had a tracker on his suit in The Calm that they checked for bugs and the necklace set off the detector.

It would be great if Felicity could develop some wearable tech for Oliver during her job.

[Guest]

BR was contracted for 16 episodes (although it may be 18, I can't quite remember and I don't think MG could either).  He wasn't in 3x04 or 3x06 so he's got at least 12 more to go which takes him to 3x18, 3x19 if he's not in the Flash crossover one either.  They're going to have to up his storyline to justify all those episodes and how much the actor must cost.

 

He was contracted for 14 at first and then it went up to 16. He's already been in 4? So 12 to go. We might see him briefly in 308 and I'm sure he'll be in 309 but I don't think there will be enough time for any 'relationship with Felicity' type scenes. I think Ray will have more focus from 310 onwards, especially with Oliver missing.

 

 

I hope Diggle talks to Oliver about the idea that Felicity is moving on.  Boy needs a slap upside the head if he thinks she should wait to see if he ever is available for her.  I hope Diggle doesn't talk about it to Felicity though. It  has to be on Oliver to decide what he wants and to make a move.

 

 

After Oliver moans about Felicity being with Ray and moving on with her life, I definitely sense a scene where Diggle says something like 'well, what did you expect Oliver?' I don't see him letting Oliver get away with thinking like that, even if his jealousy is a human reaction tbh.

 

 

If Oliver and Felicity have a touching scene in 3x09, I don't want her to start a relationship with Ray while he's gone and she's worrying about him.  Although if the scene in 3x09 is Oliver telling her to move on with her life and date Ray, I will throw things at the TV.

 

 

That's one of the reasons I'm struggling to see an actual relationship between Felicity and Ray. It doesn't matter if Oliver goes missing or disappears willingly, Felicity is bound to be upset by that whatever happens. She does love Oliver after all and she can't switch that off, no matter if Oliver tells her to move on. I can't see her being all loved up and happy and dating while Oliver is probably fighting for his life/humanity. That doesn't sound like Felicity to me. But who knows? I've been wrong before and this show is getting it wrong all over the place right now.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

That's the one part I'm failing to put together. If Oliver is missing, be it either because they think he's dead or because they don't know where he is, I can't think of a conceivable reason for Felicity to have moved on romantically with Ray, 6-7 week time jump or not. So maybe she decides she's not ready after their "date" or the brakes get put on somehow, until after Oliver's back?

I'm having a really tough time figuring out the relationship timelines here. Even with Ray and Felicity going on a date/possibly kissing in the next ep, with the crossover in 3x08, and then this big Olicity scene in 3x09 (which has to be something romantic), I just can't figure out how she could move on to Ray if she truly loves Oliver and thinks he's either dead or missing, even if it's just a rebound type situation. And I don't mean that in the judgmental, anti-ship, she needs to put her life on hold for Oliver kind of way, I just mean that with the story they've told so far, I just can't believe Felicity would be with Ray at that point, if she had feelings for Oliver and he's like...gone.

Was there a spoiler that she and Ray get closer in the eps where Oliver's missing, or is that just speculation? I can't remember.

Edited November 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I think it's speculation because they were promoting Ray as Felicity's new love interest like crazy over the summer and there's been so little indication of it as yet.

 

I think the only real spoilers we have are

1.  We will get a hint of Ray's plan at the end of 3x07;

2.  Laurel will get her BC costume in 3x10;

3.  Oliver will appear only in flashbacks in some episodes 3x10 +;

4. JJ Ramirez got the script for 3x12 so Ted Grant is in that episode.

 

Matt Mitovich at TV line said he has more spoilers for Arrow, and if anyone has questions (i.e. spoiler questions he has the answers to), email them to him at insideline@tvline.com

Edited November 17, 2014 by statsgirl