Spoiler Discussion Thread

[leopardprint]

Isn't the bashful Oliver/Thea scene in 521? Probably a mention? 

Something random I am waiting for is for Felicity to make an appearance at the Mayor's office. 

[ComicFan777]

I think Oliver-Felicity heart-to-heart talks are at least back anyways - in the promo, I think he's talking to Felicity when he says, "Every time I try to take a step forward, it feels like the past is pulling me back..."  Hopefully, a little more touching, too.

[insomniadreams88]

36 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Isn't the bashful Oliver/Thea scene in 521? Probably a mention? 

Something random I am waiting for is for Felicity to make an appearance at the Mayor's office. 

Yeah, she was there in... 502? And that was the last time we saw Felicity in his office, right?

And yes, Thea's back this week! Does anyone remember what the quote was about why she comes back now? Didn't WM say something about something bringing her back but she might not be ready? Could she come back because of the corpse delivered? If so, it has to be Robert Queen's, right? 

11 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think Oliver-Felicity heart-to-heart talks are at least back anyways - in the promo, I think he's talking to Felicity when he says, "Every time I try to take a step forward, it feels like the past is pulling me back..."  Hopefully, a little more touching, too.

Yep. The touching ban has clearly been lifted with 520.

[lemotomato]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, she was there in... 502? And that was the last time we saw Felicity in his office, right?

Felicity was also in the office in 505-- the "mortal lock" scene.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Felicity was also in the office in 505-- the "mortal lock" scene.

Oh, right. How could I forget? 

But nothing in 5B. So long overdue a visit.

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe no one will be separated at the end of the finale and the cliffhanger will be everyone on the boat, leaving Lian Yu, and Oliver just announcing, "I'm going to tell the world I'm the Green Arrow." End of season there, maybe not even showing anyone's reaction? 

Cue FBs in 601 showing the aftermath of that decision - how the others feel, a press conference if he goes through with it, the aftermath of that, etc. 

I'm against the world finding out Oliver's the Green Arrow, so I hope it doesn't happen, but you never know. 

[Mellowyellow]

I don't want them separated! *wails* Unless they have a 10 year FF with Olicity babies running around to reassure me of endgame. Then I am fine with whatever crap (mostly fine) they throw at Olicity.

[leopardprint]

That's no guarantee, @Mellowyellow, have you seen How I Met Your Mother? 

Haha I didn't see 502 and I think I repressed 505...so she hasn't been back to his office in 15 episodes.

Ugh, I forgot about that possibility @insomniadreams88, let's hope it's not him blowing up his secret identity. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

Omg woman (or man?) DO NOT remind me of HIMYM. I could go on for days!!!! And I didn't even ship on that show! The awfulness of that ending just rankled on my soul! STILL DOES!!!!!!!

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think Oliver-Felicity heart-to-heart talks are at least back anyways - in the promo, I think he's talking to Felicity when he says, "Every time I try to take a step forward, it feels like the past is pulling me back..." Hopefully, a little more touching, too.

He is, you can see the back of her head if you don't blink at the wrong moment.

[BkWurm1]

It's funny, after knowing exactly what to expect in 519 and 520 for what felt like months, I can't really remember what 521 is about at all.  There's a body in concrete and Dig and Oliver are in oatmeal.  That's all I remember.  It's practically like being unspoiled.  

[bijoux]

Thea is also back and Oliver looks cheery and bashful. I'll take it.

[bijoux]

I've been thinking about the sequence of events in 521 a bit. Ma assumption is that it goes cheerful Oliver with Thea - the body in the concrete gets delivered - the past is pulling him back line to Felicity - Oliver and Dig are cemented while in the field, with Oliver in black - Oliver gets his Green Arrow back on. I haven't done much with the later part, but for the first, I don't think it's Robert's body. The past pulling him back comment doesn't make that much sense to me in that case. I'd go with one of Oliver's victims here. Likely Chase's criminal father.

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I've been thinking about the sequence of events in 521 a bit. Ma assumption is that it goes cheerful Oliver with Thea - the body in the concrete gets delivered - the past is pulling him back line to Felicity - Oliver and Dig are cemented while in the field, with Oliver in black - Oliver gets his Green Arrow back on. I haven't done much with the later part, but for the first, I don't think it's Robert's body. The past pulling him back comment doesn't make that much sense to me in that case. I'd go with one of Oliver's victims here. Likely Chase's criminal father.

Yeah, I see the order similar to that, along with the body being Chase's father. Although I still think that part of what might come into play is the whole William thing, since the "fathers" title, the ending of 520, and even Oliver and Felicity reasoned that they should probably check for William after they got out of the bunker in the beginning of 520. I could see a talk with Thea about fatherhood, given that older quote about Thea having a really good scene in 521.

[Hiveminder]

The thing I don't get about the possibility of the body being Robert is - why the concrete then? What would be the purpose of Chase digging up Robert and encasing him in concrete before sending him to Oliver. I've always wondered if there's some kind of Bratva connection to it, just because concrete - concrete shoes - mob, you know?

[Sunshine]

Regarding the encased corpse possibly being Chase's father.  So did Chase cut off some extremity to burn knowing he was going to do this 4 years ago?  Cremated ashes left at the scene was the first clue that sent them looking for the son (Chase).

[bijoux]

I completely forgot about the ashes. But I think nothing is too crazy for Chase. So, sure, why not cremate only his father's left foot and enbalm the rest in cement?

[way2interested]

Wow, I forgot about that too, along with the overturned cases part of the plot of 521, so I'm guessing that would be part of what's going on as well (probably at least something to keep Lance/the newbies busy).

[Sunshine]

I think Sampson (Cody Gunnels/Rhodes) must be the face of the overturned cases. Did we have any named criminals this year besides Tobias Church (dead), Black Siren (locked up in ARGUS without due process *irony*) and the trio of Cupid, China White & Lady Cop?

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I think Sampson (Cody Gunnels/Rhodes) must be the face of the overturned cases. Did we have any named criminals this year besides Tobias Church (dead), Black Siren (locked up in ARGUS without due process *irony*) and the trio of Cupid, China White & Lady Cop?

I don't think they'd even count since they were locked up before Chase became DA (as far as we know).

I agree, Samson is the face of all those overturned cases.

[BkWurm1]

I still want to know how Sampson is walking around after Oliver cut his tendons.  I didn't think that was something that was easily repaired.  

[bijoux]

What was it with him, he didn't feel pain?

[insomniadreams88]

24 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I still want to know how Sampson is walking around after Oliver cut his tendons.  I didn't think that was something that was easily repaired.  

Maybe Chase arranged for the repair, sort of like how Malcolm helped Kovar in the FBs? 

Or they just won't explain it. Which is more likely really. He'll just be up and fighting, no problem. 

[BkWurm1]

30 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What was it with him, he didn't feel pain?

Yup. 

[statsgirl]

33 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What was it with him, he didn't feel pain?

It was the vat he fell, that Rene screwed up.  It caused him not to feel pain.  There may be more but I don't care enough about Rene to look into it.

[tv echo]

In TVLine's Ask Ausiello Live chat yesterday (video posted in Mind Your Surroundings thread), Matt Mitovich said that he'd be posting inside scoops on some shows either last night or this morning, including some "good Black Siren stuff." So keep an eye out for that (if you're interested).

Edited May 9, 2017 by tv echo

[looptab]

Quote

 "good Black Siren stuff."

That's an oxymoron. 10 points, Mitovich!

[Belinea]

When will Oliver find out that Chase has his kid? In the final episode? Because I assume that part of the island challenge is to get the child back, right? Assuming William, maybe his mom too, get taken there. Also, I am not completely sure I like the fact that we are once dealing with the kidnapping of his son. I get why they do it, it is just that those parts were my least favorite of last season and I am afraid that it won't be better this time around.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Belinea

[tv echo]

18 minutes ago, Belinea said:

When will Oliver find out that Chase has his kid? In the final episode? Because I assume that part of the island challenge is to get the child back, right? Assuming William, maybe his mom too, get taken there. Also, I am not completely sure I like the fact that we once dealing with the kidnapping of his son. I get why they do it, it is just that those parts were my least favorite of last season and I am afraid that it won't be better this time around.

Logically, you might think that William will be a factor in 521, since the title of that episode is "Honor Thy Fathers." However, we have no spoilers to that effect. Also, SA has said that the ep's title refers to the fathers of Chase and Oliver - Justin Claybourne and Robert Queen.

Therefore, I think Oliver will find out about William in 522.  A fan at WonderCon had reported that MG said that 522 and 523 are a "chain response" from 520. I originally thought that he meant something having to do with Oliver & Felicity. But now having watched 520, I wonder if MG was referring to the Chase/William scene.

Edited May 9, 2017 by tv echo

[Belinea]

On 8.5.2017 at 3:36 PM, Hiveminder said:

why the concrete then? What would be the purpose of Chase digging up Robert and encasing him in concrete before sending him to Oliver.

Also, does Chase dig up all the graves  in order to find the right one after running around the island looking for the grave? How does he know that Oliver's father is buried there? Why does he assume that he will find his corpse? Also, shouldn't the island give Oliver a slight advantage because he lived there for quite some time  and know his way around or does Chase know the island 100% too. That guy is just so resourceful. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Belinea

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Therefore, I think Oliver will find out about William in 522.  A fan at WonderCon had reported that MG said that 522 and 523 are a "chain response" from 520. I originally thought that he meant something having to do with Oliver & Felicity. But now having watched 520, I wonder if MG was referring to the Chase/William scene.

I think he meant specifically to Olicity because he was talking about Olicity to her. And didn't he use something like "in the best way possible", so I doubt he'd be referring to William kidnapping in that sense.

[insomniadreams88]

10 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Therefore, I think Oliver will find out about William in 522.  A fan at WonderCon had reported that MG said that 522 and 523 are a "chain response" from 520. I originally thought that he meant something having to do with Oliver & Felicity. But now having watched 520, I wonder if MG was referring to the Chase/William scene.

 

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

I think he meant specifically to Olicity because he was talking about Olicity to her. And didn't he use something like "in the best way possible", so I doubt he'd be referring to William kidnapping in that sense.

Yeah, I thought he was referring to Olicity too.

Also, if Chase did take William at the end of 520, I would think Samantha would have learned (even though she clearly didn't learn to tell her son not to talk to strangers) and contacted Oliver immediately instead of waiting for him to reach out to her again. Or maybe she'll wait until they're all on the island in the finale and go, "So, BTW, William was taken X amount of time ago. Think he's here too?" 

[leopardprint]

If Oliver, more likely Felicity, does nothing after Chase trapped them in the bunker about William, then I don't even know what they have done to Oliver Queen this season. Forget Olicity, I would like a reunion between Oliver and basic logic.

I don't know why they insist on writing Samantha, William and Oliver so stupid for this storyline. Of course, no one is going to like that. 

I still think William might not be kidnapped and Chase is playing more mind games with Oliver. I think he would rather destroy Oliver/GA in William's eyes, so he'll tell him his dad is the GA and that he is a killer.

I guess they could handwave it away that Felicity can't find them to contact them. 

[Cleanqueen]

The show would shock me if Adrian didn't end up kidnapping William but instead just told him Oliver is the GA and that he is a killer...but then how does that explain Samantha being on the Island. Unless he ends up taking them anyways after Samantha learns of what William knows and contacts Oliver.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

The show would shock me if Adrian didn't end up kidnapping William but instead just told him Oliver is the GA and that he is a killer...but then how does that explain Samantha being on the Island. Unless he ends up taking them anyways after Samantha learns of what William knows and contacts Oliver.

Maybe Chase just tells William that Oliver's the GA and a killer, in hopes that that causes Samantha to do something like tell Oliver he can never see his son? And then that doesn't work, so he takes Samantha because he thinks making her see Oliver in action on the island, having to kill, might accomplish that? I don't know. I just really wish Samantha and William weren't part of Chase's plan. 

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

The show would shock me if Adrian didn't end up kidnapping William but instead just told him Oliver is the GA and that he is a killer...but then how does that explain Samantha being on the Island. Unless he ends up taking them anyways after Samantha learns of what William knows and contacts Oliver.

If the kid is kidnapped it has to be resolved by 522 because I can't see Oliver having a birthday party knowing the kid is missing 

[leopardprint]

I guess I just can't reconcile that the kid/Samantha will have been kidnapped for three weeks and Oliver is attending his birthday party? Even if he doesn't know that W/S were actually kidnapped, he does know Chase is after them. It's inexcusably stupid and frankly just poor strategy to assume that Chase can't find them when Oliver has fallen for every other trap he's set. It's too stupid to live territory. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

If the kid is kidnapped it has to be resolved by 522 because I can't see Oliver having a birthday party knowing the kid is missing 

Yeah I can see 5x22 happening after they think they've defeated Chase and maybe even William shows up to the birthday party because he doesn't believe his father is a killer. 

do we know if the kid is on the island or is it just the mom?

[leopardprint]

I believe just the mom was confirmed, but I don't recall it being spoiled he would be in 520. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Sunshine]

Oliver's birthday starts out bloody and ends with cake. If William is taken Oliver finds out in 5.21.  He's rescued and maybe Chase is arrested early 5.22.  Team relaxes and Oliver has birthday cake.  Black Siren and Artemis help free Chase and then goes after good guys. 

[leopardprint]

8 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Oliver's birthday starts out bloody and ends with cake. If William is taken Oliver finds out in 5.21.  He's rescued and maybe Chase is arrested early 5.22.  Team relaxes and Oliver has birthday cake.  Black Siren and Artemis help free Chase and then goes after good guys. 

I think this is the most likely kidnapping scenario. It would make sense for Felicity to organize a party if they all think Chase is taken care of as @wonderwall and @Cleanqueen suggest. Then Chase can be one of the titular missing after he escapes, I'm sure an official phone call will interrupt a post party romantic Olicity moment. ?

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

I took the "chain response" to be about Felicity telling Oliver to figure out who he really is.   (The guy is 32, it's about time.) Then he works it out through to the end of the season.   It would be a parallel to s3 when he ended the season saying he wanted to figure out who Oliver Queen is apart from The Arrow.  At the end of s5, he figures how to incorporate the two.

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

When will Oliver find out that Chase has his kid? In the final episode? Because I assume that part of the island challenge is to get the child back, right? Assuming William, maybe his mom too, get taken there. Also, I am not completely sure I like the fact that we are once dealing with the kidnapping of his son. I get why they do it, it is just that those parts were my least favorite of last season and I am afraid that it won't be better this time around.

What if Chase doesn't kidnap the kid at the start of 5x21 but that scene at the end of 5x20 is just to make us, the audience, worried about what's going to happen to William and connect the fathers theme, and the kidnapping is later?  It would be a massive mis-reading of how much the audience cares about the kid (which is to say, not at all) but it wouldn't be the first time they've misread the audience.)

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Chase trying to make Willaim hate Oliver would be the kind of thing he could do but he seems too young to me for that kind of plan to work..another thing would be if he planned to take him and raise him (or make Talia's people raise him) to make him into Oliver's enemy but I don't see them doing that either..

I thought Chase had him in the finale because it makes more sense to me that his mom insisted on going with them to the island to get him back instead of getting kidnapped alone..the only connection Oliver has with her is through their kid so if he is somewhere safe her presence doesn't make sense to me.

[leopardprint]

Unless Chase kidnaps the mom, but you're right that doesn't make a lot of sense unless we're going to get a scene of William begging Oliver to save his mom...?

Still a little kid missing for three weeks and no one notices? I guess Amber Alerts don't exist on Arrow. (Oh god now I picture Oliver finding out from a Snuze report)

So what kind of cake do you think Felicity will get Oliver?

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

If they find out at the end of 521 he would have been missing a week or so..and I could see them throwing in a line about taking it long to find them because they are hidden well but I can't imagine a way to justify Samantha not asking them for help for a week..it was already stupid the first time they did it and now she also knows Oliver is the GA.

[statsgirl]

12 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think Chase trying to make Willaim hate Oliver would be the kind of thing he could do but he seems too young to me for that kind of plan to work..another thing would be if he planned to take him and raise him (or make Talia's people raise him) to make him into Oliver's enemy but I don't see them doing that either..

That would be lovely and Greek tragedy-like but it's too longterm for this show.  (Also I doubt if William is smart enough.  He's like the P.E. teacher on Lucifer last night, you have to point out even basic things to him.)

[Cleanqueen]

http://tvline.com/2017/05/09/arrow-season-5-spoilers-black-siren-returns/

 

Quote

I am excited to have Katie Cassidy coming back to Arrow (on May 17), Black Siren is a badass villain. What can we expect? —Diana
You can expect… badass villainy. “She comes back as part of Chase’s plan,” says co-showrunner Wendy Mericle. ” Chase knows exactly what he’s doing, and he understands how unsettling seeing somebody that looks like Laurel Lance is going to be for the rest of the team,” her “dad” Quentin included. “And from a writing perspective, it’s just fun storytelling. Katie Cassidy does an amazing job as Black Siren, and seeing her take on Dinah, or her take on Lance, is going to be fun.”

Edited May 9, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[Velocity23]

wow  ROFL ... I thought we all knew she was gonna be a villain. 

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

In TVLine's Ask Ausiello Live chat yesterday (video posted in Mind Your Surroundings thread), Matt Mitovich said that he'd be posting inside scoops on some shows either last night or this morning, including some "good Black Siren stuff." So keep an eye out for that (if you're interested).

Big fat load of nothing we didn't already know, Matt and Ausi aren't even press releasing anything new.

BS is a villain working for Chase. She has scenes with Dinah and Lance.

[way2interested]

Wow, that Producer's Preview, looks like the body is someone Robert Queen had a hand in killing. Actually didn't think that was where it was going.