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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well that explains the (sorry Olicity fans) aside.  

That annoyed me. It annoys me when any showrunner/EP calls out any group of fans of a show in an interview. Just talk about the show and what's going on. There's really no need to do that because it's just bound to get a response that will probably later be used against that group of fans. 

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Guest

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We’ve always wondered, ever since Lyla stepped up and took over A.R.G.U.S., the interesting thing about her character is she, in a lot of ways, is very similar to Oliver in that she’s now in the position of making some really hard decisions and having to constantly justify the means by the end. Dig’s going to find out about some of these things that she’s been doing, and he’s going to really wonder where did his wife go? It’s rich territory because they’ve always been such a solid couple. They’ve had their ups and downs, but I think this is the first time where Dig has looked at her and wondered that this person that he sees in front of him doesn’t really resemble the person that he fell in love with. That’s an interesting question for anyone in a marriage situation to be asking themselves.

This kinda makes me wonder if Lyla might be involved in Helix in some way, or at least aware of it? IDK. I'm just wondering why it's these episodes specifically that Diggle doesn't recognize Lyla as the woman he fell in love with. Like, what sparks that revelation or whatever. Hmm...

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

That annoyed me. It annoys me when any showrunner/EP calls out any group of fans of a show in an interview. Just talk about the show and what's going on. There's really no need to do that because it's just bound to get a response that will probably later be used against that group of fans. 

The show runner didn't do that Natalie (the author) did

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This kinda makes me wonder if Lyla might be involved in Helix in some way, or at least aware of it? IDK. I'm just wondering why it's these episodes specifically that Diggle doesn't recognize Lyla as the woman he fell in love with. Like, what sparks that revelation or whatever. Hmm...

If Lyla isn't involved in or knows about Helix before 519, I'm going to be surprised if she doesn't at the very least think they should just let Felicity do what she's doing (unless it's something that will affect ARGUS in some way).

Or it could just be about the manhunt for Chase? After all, the episode description just says that "Oliver, Team Arrow, ARGUS and the SCPD kick off a citywide manhunt for Adrian Chase." That doesn't mean they're all working together. Yes, we know that it's going to be Felicity vs. Team Arrow, but do we know that ARGUS is going to be working with Team Arrow? 

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6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

If Lyla isn't involved in or knows about Helix before 519, I'm going to be surprised if she doesn't at the very least think they should just let Felicity do what she's doing (unless it's something that will affect ARGUS in some way).

Or it could just be about the manhunt for Chase? After all, the episode description just says that "Oliver, Team Arrow, ARGUS and the SCPD kick off a citywide manhunt for Adrian Chase." That doesn't mean they're all working together. Yes, we know that it's going to be Felicity vs. Team Arrow, but do we know that ARGUS is going to be working with Team Arrow? 

Yeah, if she's not working for/aware of Helix, I'm just gonna assume she thinks Felicity should do what she needs to do in a "ends justify the means" kind of way. And of course Diggle and Oliver won't agree with that. 

I'm wondering/dreading what illegal thing Helix want Felicity to do though. *Bites nails*

way2interested

way2interested

Just now, Angel12d said:

I'm wondering/dreading what illegal thing Helix want Felicity to do though. *Bites nails*

It's weird, my guide on my tv has a slightly different description for the episode and says that Helix wants Felicity to deliver something illegal in return for getting the key to catching Chase that they have, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

It's weird, my guide on my tv has a slightly different description for the episode and says that Helix wants Felicity to deliver something illegal in return for getting the key to catching Chase that they have, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

Mine too actually.

And I do wonder what it is that Helix tells Felicity they're going to do to catch Chase that seems like a better idea than leaving Team Arrow, ARGUS and the SCPD to their manhunt.

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

If Lyla is somehow involved in Helix, I'll be wondering why she didn't just go to Felicity directly and ask her to get this stuff as head of ARGUS? Unless we're supposed to believe Felicity not wanting to go along with her and Oliver's plan to break out Diggle shook Lyla's faith in her or whatever. And if Diggle has an issue with Lyla doing shady things or asking Felicity to do shady things, like...has he been absent these past four ARGUS-filled years? 

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I'm happy Olicity are finally gonna talk and fight and hopefully reconnect but I'm still side eyeing the whole "Felicity will finally understand Oliver" stuff. I think she understood him just fine tbh but they seem to be focusing on the wrong thing, IMO. The main reason they've been at odds, so to speak, is because he lied and broke the trust in their relationship and that's probably why Felicity hasn't wanted to confide in Oliver about Helix or whatever. So I'm not sure why only Felicity has to have these revelations tbh.

And I'm still baffled as to why this is considered her crucible when she was paralyzed and Havenrock happened. Did they forget? Haha, probably.

Seriously, I think what she endured in s4 was way worse but maybe that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
Quote

And yet the sizzle trailer seems to indicate they’re on the road to reconciliation. Is that true?
They are definitely on the road toward — well, the interesting thing about taking her down this road with Helix is she is going to come out of it with this, the same way Diggle came out of it when he killed his brother — new understanding and appreciation for where Oliver’s been and what he’s been through. No matter whether they end up together or not (sorry, all Olicity Twitter fans), this is going to absolutely deepen the relationship. It has to. She’s now gone through her own island in a way.

So at first when they started saying this I dreaded that their upcoming conversation is being framed this way to justify Oliver's terrible decisions but now I hope it's more about the part of the conversation where Oliver tells Felicity about what Chase said. Even though I still think it's kind of nonsense, especially the Diggle part. 

I also dispute that they've been on separate paths. They've been on the same path and ignoring each other. 

13 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Seriously, I think what she endured in s4 was way worse but maybe that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, the way they talk about Felicity this season is like she's had some sort of charmed life until Havenrock and lacks basic human empathy (ironic given that's her superpower). 

Also, Oliver has frequently consulted with sketchy groups without telling the team going into the last episode, so I'm having a hardtime with this comparison. 

I think Lyla shows up because Helix and ARGUS are at odds and she wants to arrest or question Felicity. 

Edited by leopardprint
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wonderwall

wonderwall

As long as this "understanding" doesn't mean that she'll think he made the right decision with respect to the breakup -- I'm good.

In regards to understanding Oliver's choices with respect to the mission, I think the show did a really good job paralleling Oliver/Felicity's journey this season. Felicity had Pandora, Oliver had the book, Felicity's motivation was death and the torture of loved ones, Oliver's motivation was the death of his father as well as his own torture. Yes Felicity understood Oliver's choices before, but I think she'll have a more intimate understanding of it now that she has to face similar decisions on whether letting the means justify the ends. With Felicity it's doing illegal hacking stuff that could potentially put a lot of people in danger, with Oliver it was killing. IMO you will always have a better understanding of what a person has been through when you actually live through something similar. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Good point! I need to remember this whenever I read WM interviews. 

Okay, so...Felicity gets a better understanding of why Oliver had a tendency to go off on his own and not lean on her as a partner. In the long run that doesn't really mean anything since it seems that Oliver has learned that doing that is not the way to handle things (this whole season has been about that), and he's trying to get her to not go that route with her problems, so even if she does gain some kind of ~understanding about his behavior, seems to me that's pretty worthless since the show is showing that's not the way you're supposed to handle things. 

So this really doesn't upset me on the surface, although they could always mess it up onscreen.

Edited by apinknightmare
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm more concerned with them linking the "better understanding" to their break-up tbh. That's mainly my issue. 

It seems to me that since Felicity's been mostly keeping her involvement with Helix to herself and not "leaning on her partners," which was her issue with Oliver last year - that if there actually is any link to the two despite what WM and MG say - it's going to be that.

It just seems worthless to me at this point since she's already admitted that she does believe he can change, and I don't think the outcome of any link between what she's going through and what he did is going to be the two of them deciding that it's okay to keep things from each other in the future, so to me it's just kinda meh at this point. If anything like that even comes to pass.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And I'm still baffled as to why this is considered her crucible when she was paralyzed and Havenrock happened. Did they forget? Haha, probably.

Seriously, I think what she endured in s4 was way worse but maybe that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Given MG's responses about Havenrock/513/etc., yes, I think they choose to forget S4 happened for Felicity unless they have to use them in the show and not just in relation to other characters. I think they want Helix to be Felicity's island and therefore they're trying to keep the audience from remembering the other things that happened so they can say things like this.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
29 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It seems to me that since Felicity's been mostly keeping her involvement with Helix to herself and not "leaning on her partners," which was her issue with Oliver last year - that if there actually is any link to the two despite what WM and MG say - it's going to be that.

It just seems worthless to me at this point since she's already admitted that she does believe he can change, and I don't think the outcome of any link between what she's going through and what he did is going to be the two of them deciding that it's okay to keep things from each other in the future, so to me it's just kinda meh at this point. If anything like that even comes to pass.

You're right! It's like the show is trying to put them on the same footing by making them equally wrong. Also, didn't the show justify the lie because the "mother of your child" wanted him to keep it a secret and for the kid's safety (wtf show) Basically they are saying it's ok if someone makes you? I don't think Oliver or anyone has ever expressed he did the wrong thing. 

Honestly, and this just may be my Felicity bias, but using Helix is just a sketchier version of her normal info gathering methods which no one has had an issue with before because it looks like she's jumping ship now that she realizes how bad they are.

ETA: Also, Oliver's primary focus wasn't catching Prometheus until 5x15 so I don't really see the problem with her pursuing other means.

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

In the comments, NA says that "Olicity Twitter fans" was a quote, not her. 

It's ok guys, WM and MG are totally not sexist, they told us so. 

Edited by leopardprint
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Sunshine

Sunshine

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Honestly, and this just may be my Felicity bias, but using Helix is just a sketchier version of her normal info gathering methods which no one has had an issue with before. 

This is what makes me laugh about this whole storyline.  Felicity regularly does illegal things on behalf of Team Arrow.  Why is this any different other than it's not for Team Arrow?  

IIRC Oliver broke into Palmer Tech and stole something in 5.04 to use in freeing Diggle on behalf of Lyla? Is this a repeat which is why Diggle and Lyla work on their issues in 5.20 too?

I figured WM made that remark that people were attributing to NA.  I think she did that earlier in the year too, maybe in an interview about 5.05.  

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
17 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

You're right! It's like the show is trying to put them on the same footing by making them equally wrong. Also, didn't the show justify the lie because the "mother of your child" wanted him to keep it a secret and for the kid's safety (wtf show) Basically they are saying it's ok if someone makes you? I don't think Oliver or anyone has ever expressed he did the wrong thing. 

It's not making *them* on the same footing, it's putting "doing things on your own" on the same footing as a bad thing. Oliver was wrong for doing it with his kid and Felicity's going to be in the wrong for doing it now. Felicity wasn't wrong for calling Oliver out on it then, and Oliver won't be wrong for hypothetically calling Felicity out on it now. Oliver will get hypothetically "punished" more, losing his relationship with Felicity and his son, because the way he kept things to himself was worse (however, this is being said I have no idea what ultimate consequences Felicity's going to get by working with Helix, but presumably not semi-permanent as Oliver's were). Oliver's motives were "justified" by the "keep the kid safe" argument (speaking strictly from what the show has said, not my actual feelings on it), but the narrative (and Felicity) didn't justify him since he still suffered consequences for it. The show would be basically saying that when things get difficult it's easy to divert to going it alone but that it's wrong and you should lean on the people who care about you otherwise things will get worse.

Edited by way2interested
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

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I am SO VERY tired of Wendy and Marc addressing O/F in terms that make it seem like they're embarrassed to be talking about it at all, or like it's only written for a niche audience, in this case "Olicity Twitter fans." Like...this isn't some fucking crackship? It's your central romantic relationship. I don't see AK acting apologetic and embarrassed for all the romantic drama on The Flash. They don't treat people who are interested in Westallen--in the story they're telling, in other words--as a niche audience of just Westallen Twitter fans. They assume that their general audience has engaged with the story they've been telling. I think that should be a pretty safe assumption. People who keep watching your show are presumably still engaged in it, and have hopes and opinions about it, even if they aren't expressing those online. Like, you all wrote Olicity in the hopes that people would engage with it and root for them to be together and to work out their problems. Why are you annoyed that it worked? And why would you believe or act like the only people who care about and root for that relationship are the Olicity Twitter fans?

ANYWAY, this doesn't affect my feelings about the upcoming episodes. It's just more to add to my collections of reasons I will never like these EPs. And because I can't let one of these interviews go by without saying it--Wendy, please:

giphy.gif

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LeighAn

LeighAn

Oh Wendy. I'm all for women respecting women but can we go back to the part where you don't speak in public interviews cause your just terrible at them please and thank you :)

That being said beside then completely unnecessary and uncalled for "sorry" I had no problem with the Olicity quote. Basically I took it to mean that after they both gone through something pretty emotionally traumatic experiences that Oliver and Felicity are going to reach a far more initiate and honest place with each other then they've been before and will have a deeper relationship as a result. Understanding something better doesn't mean accepting it. So I'm all good with that ?

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strikera0

strikera0

(edited)
49 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

In the comments, NA says that "Olicity Twitter fans" was a quote, not her. 

Of course that quote came from Wendy. I don't know why people believed otherwise. Nathalie may (or may not) have her biases, but at the end of the day, she's still a professional. 

Edited by strikera0
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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, strikera0 said:

Of course that quote came from Wendy. I don't know why people believed otherwise. Nathalie may (or may not) have her biases, but at the end of the day, she's still a professional. 

One could say that if she's a professional we shouldn't have to question if she has biases, yet here we are.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
3 hours ago, strikera0 said:

Of course that quote came from Wendy. I don't know why people believed otherwise. Nathalie may (or may not) have her biases, but at the end of the day, she's still a professional. 

She posts her work on (and engages with people on) the Arrow reddit, and has in the past seemingly purposely misinterpreted quotes to get a rise out of the Olicity crowd, so...I don't think that believing she made that comment is a stretch.

Edited by apinknightmare
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Natalie Abrams has always been biased against Felicity in a very unprofessional way but I can believe that the aside came from Wendy

Quote

Lizzie Beli75 • 2 hours ago

That condescending 'Olicity twitter fans' thing was all Natalie. The comment was unnecessary as we all know Olicity don't get back together, at least not in episode 19 or 20.

Thea has been shockingly underused this season. I hope she's back next season.

---

Natalie Abrams EW Staff Lizzie • an hour ago

Hey, actually that's a quote, so it's not from me.

WM has an absolute genius for killing my Olicity buzz.

Edited by statsgirl
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

A lot of people on Twitter Natalie is lying because otherwise why put it in parentheses then? Essentially that is what you do when you are inserting something into a quote that wasn't said or to clarify something that was said.

I don't think she's lying. Saying "sorry all Twitter Olicity fans" is just such a freaking weird group to call out during an interview that it seemed rather personal - that's why I assumed Natalie was saying it because she actually engages with Olicity fans on Twitter. Wendy doesn't, and I would've thought said something more general like "sorry Olicity fans"? I should not try and make sense of her.

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