Spoiler Discussion Thread

[LeighAn]

I just watched the episode and I think the whatever happens with Susan line was just in regards to what she does with the information of who he is and not implying anything in terms of Romance. I think we might see a little bit of Oliver attempting to reach out to Susan to fix the relationship but given hes being impeached and all I dont know where hes going to find the time and given Susans anger I daresay that if she is in as many episodes as Ken Pursuit claims- since hes the only source and the paps have been sketchy this season- then shes probably on in a women scorned capacity and goes after either Oliver or Thea/Felicity.

[LadyChaos]

11 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

That's right now I remember where I heard of That When Cruel Intentions came out. That it was based off a book. I think it's safe to say the plot of the book won't be the plot of the Arrow Epidode. 

I think its going to be more about alliances coming to bite them in the ass...... maybe Felicity with Helix, maybe Oliver and Bratva, maybe Tahlia comes back or flashback related with her, maybe all of it, maybe none of it

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

given Susans anger I daresay that if she is in as many episodes as Ken Pursuit claims- since hes the only source and the paps have been sketchy this season- then shes probably on in a women scorned capacity and goes after either Oliver or Thea/Felicity.

Or, all of the above.

[apinknightmare]

She's dumb enough to have 1234 as a password, but...hopefully smart enough to put together that Oliver's ex-fiancée is a tech wiz and the only one who could've gotten to her, so hopefully she at least does something with that. 

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

She's dumb enough to have 1234 as a password, but...hopefully smart enough to put together that Oliver's ex-fiancée is a tech wiz and the only one who could've gotten to her, so hopefully she at least does something with that. 

Or arrogant enough to think she just wouldn't get hacked.

[Trisha]

18 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I just watched the episode and I think the whatever happens with Susan line was just in regards to what she does with the information of who he is and not implying anything in terms of Romance. I think we might see a little bit of Oliver attempting to reach out to Susan to fix the relationship but given hes being impeached and all I dont know where hes going to find the time and given Susans anger I daresay that if she is in as many episodes as Ken Pursuit claims- since hes the only source and the paps have been sketchy this season- then shes probably on in a women scorned capacity and goes after either Oliver or Thea/Felicity.

Part of me hopes Oliver reaches out to Susan to ask her if any of it was real or if she was just using him for a story (because that's a natural question any believable, non-robotic character would have), but the other part of me doesn't want that because it could lead to a conversation about feelings and a reconciliation -- even if Susan if faking it and secretly going after Oliver/Thea/Felicity at the same time. 

Whatever happens, I hope Susan leaves Felicity out of her revenge plan. Felicity deserves better storylines than getting mixed up in Oliver and his gf drama (which is why I was pleasantly surprised that the show quickly downplayed Felicity's involvement in ruining Susan's career, even if it's a stretch that she planted docs on the laptop without knowing exactly what they contained). 

[Velocity23]

I still wonder if this for shady reporters next move. 

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

Whatever happens, I hope Susan leaves Felicity out of her revenge plan. Felicity deserves better storylines than getting mixed up in Oliver and his gf drama (which is why I was pleasantly surprised that the show quickly downplayed Felicity's involvement in ruining Susan's career, even if it's a stretch that she planted docs on the laptop without knowing exactly what they contained). 

I don't..... I say go for it full throttle! But, TBH I would be completely surprised if this route happens.

[LeighAn]

If shes goes after Felicity though its a good way to flip the switch on Olicity. Sort of like a reverse 3x16 with Oliver/Felicity and Susan/Ray.

[lemotomato]

That would suck, because Felicity continued to date Ray even after he went after Oliver.

[LadyChaos]

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

If shes goes after Felicity though its a good way to flip the switch on Olicity. Sort of like a reverse 3x16 with Oliver/Felicity and Susan/Ray.

I would love an ep where, for a moment, Oliver thinks he might lose Felicity again because she got hurt....and he looses it, and it sparks this whole 'Only her...' kind of thing and he tells her she is still his always.....

 

* again fanfic prompt because you know damn well the writers wont likely do that

[Cleanqueen]

I believe it's Prometheus who leaked that info to Channel 52. I just remembered Marc's interview last week where he said the episode would end with Prometheus's the next move in his grand plan.

I get that this is his way of really hurting Oliver Queen and not necessarily him as the GA because he doesn't out the fact that he is the GA. 

[LadyChaos]

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

I believe it's Prometheus who leaked that info to Channel 52. I just remembered Marc's interview last week where he said the episode would end with Prometheus's the next move in his grand plan.

I get that this is his way of really hurting Oliver Queen and not necessarily him as the GA because he doesn't out the fact that he is the GA. 

I just see how this is any different than what RAG or Slade Wilson tried to do.....

so really this plot is rinse rather repeat

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

She's dumb enough to have 1234 as a password, but...hopefully smart enough to put together that Oliver's ex-fiancée is a tech wiz and the only one who could've gotten to her, so hopefully she at least does something with that. 

Can you imagine how dumb Susan's and Oliver's kid would be? He'd make his older brother Li'l Willy the Crayola-Eatin' Champeen look like a genius by comparison.

[LeighAn]

47 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That would suck, because Felicity continued to date Ray even after he went after Oliver.

Yeah well Im thinking more along the lines of Susan going after Felicity causing Oliver to protect her like Felicity did with Ray and that sparking or helping highlight his still unresolved love for her, as it did for Felicity, then a straight up copy of the storyline.

I still think that something has to happen to shake the core before we can get to an Olicity rebuild as right now they are still in polite civil limbo land even though Felicitys Helix path is causing limbo land to at least crack a little.

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah well Im thinking more along the lines of Susan going after Felicity causing Oliver to protect her like Felicity did with Ray and that sparking or helping highlight his still unresolved love for her, as it did for Felicity, then a straight up copy of the storyline.

I still think that something has to happen to shake the core before we can get to an Olicity rebuild as right now they are still in polite civil limbo land even though Felicitys Helix path is causing limbo land to at least crack a little.

I would say 5x14 was supposed to mirror 3x17 in regards to Ray/Felicity and Susan/Oliver 

[theOAfc]

2 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think, as someone else said, the writers think they're writing him as hopeful and optimistic,

Thats my take here too. Dont forget these are the same people who thought oliver lying to his fiance because the woman who kept his child a secret and threatened him told him to, was honorable. 

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I would say 5x14 was supposed to mirror 3x17 in regards to Ray/Felicity and Susan/Oliver 

Except that Felicity was a fairly non entity in the story and was more a bystander to Thea then anything.

[LadyChaos]

Some chatter I've been having with a few other people, we are wondering since the ratings have been at an all time low for Arrow, esp with the .5 last night.  If maybe the network might have or will start to step in to force the hands of TPTB..... I think the network probably already knows they intend to renew Arrow for s7 and possible longer if they can get the actors to sign new contracts so they may step in and tell Guggie and the Scooby squad to fix themselves. 

Someone noted that while its too late to fix the plots, there are a few things they could fix.....

Some fan complaints all season have been:

the lack of QL or TQ in or out of foundry

the huge focus on the B squad

Little to no focus on the OTA.

Then suddenly in 514 we get TQ, and QL in the bunker....and while this might supposed to have been a Tinah focus ep, the B squad and Tinah kind of took a back seat.

Someone even suggested that if the network did step in, if TPTB were planning on getting Olicity back together in 523 or 601ish.....that we might now see them getting together in 519-521 area before the finale to bring the ratings back up for the end.

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Except that Felicity was a fairly non entity in the story and was more a bystander to Thea then anything.

I was talking more in terms how Felicity just accepted whatever Ray threw at her. He basically told her he didnt trust her, until Ray and Oliver had a little chat. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I was talking more in terms how Felicity just accepted whatever Ray threw at her. He basically told her he didnt trust her, until Ray and Oliver had a little chat. 

Oh well yeah fair enough haha. 

[way2interested]

Just now, LadyChaos said:

Some chatter I've been having with a few other people, we are wondering since the ratings have been at an all time low for Arrow, esp with the .5 last night.  If maybe the network might have or will start to step in to force the hands of TPTB..... I think the network probably already knows they intend to renew Arrow for s7 and possible longer if they can get the actors to sign new contracts so they may step in and tell Guggie and the Scooby squad to fix themselves. 

Someone noted that while its too late to fix the plots, there are a few things they could fix.....

Some fan complaints all season have been:

the lack of QL or TQ in or out of foundry

the huge focus on the B squad

Little to no focus on the OTA.

Then suddenly in 514 we get TQ, and QL in the bunker....and while this might supposed to have been a Tinah focus ep, the B squad and Tinah kind of took a back seat.

Someone even suggested that if the network did step in, if TPTB were planning on getting Olicity back together in 523 or 601ish.....that we might now see them getting together in 519-521 area before the finale to bring the ratings back up for the end.

It was mentioned in the Ratings thread a little while ago that it's actually possible that WB will step in as TPTB after a budget cut and just double down on the marketable/profitable IP instead of fixing any story complaints, but I kind of hope it might be both (set up a good Diggle story, get Olicity back together, while still introducing more IP forced down on them, etc.), even though it's honestly kind of contradictory.

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Oh well yeah fair enough haha. 

Just felt like it was Oliver's turn to be positive and trusting. And holding onto his relationship. 

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

It was mentioned in the Ratings thread a little while ago that it's actually possible that WB will step in as TPTB after a budget cut and just double down on the marketable/profitable IP instead of fixing any story complaints, but I kind of hope it might be both (set up a good Diggle story, get Olicity back together, while still introducing more IP forced down on them, etc.), even though it's honestly kind of contradictory.

For me, #1 waaaaay before reuniting Olicity, is fixing Oliver. He's dumb as a doorknob. Actually, he's as dumb as one of those doorknobs that looks like a doorknob but has no innards. So more of a cabinet pull.

He's also weird, robotic, doesn't seem to care much about his loved ones, and has IMO very inappropriate reactions to stimuli. I find him much weirder now than in S1 when he was basically supposed to be weird.

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Just felt like it was Oliver's turn to be positive and trusting. And holding onto his relationship. 

I just want my Oliver accudentalky on purpose admitting hes still in love with Felicity to Susan and then almost admitting he loves Felicity to Felicity <3 

Fan service me show :p

[LadyChaos]

like calling Susan Felicity in bed? :P

[way2interested]

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

He's also weird, robotic, doesn't seem to care much about his loved ones, and has IMO very inappropriate reactions to stimuli. 

Ha, like not having sex after murdering someone?

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

For me, #1 waaaaay before reuniting Olicity, is fixing Oliver. He's dumb as a doorknob. Actually, he's as dumb as one of those doorknobs that looks like a doorknob but has no innards. So more of a cabinet pull.

He's also weird, robotic, doesn't seem to care much about his loved ones, and has IMO very inappropriate reactions to stimuli. I find him much weirder now than in S1 when he was basically supposed to be weird.

I'm just saying somewhat shallow/easy things to fix (or at least to rush to set-up for s6) against somewhat shallow things they might be forced to write next season. "Fixing" Oliver would have to come from an actual purposeful change in acting/writing/plotting that might actually be too hard for the rest of the season. Honestly, putting Olicity back together for s6 could even help that, since imo Oliver was fine in 4a (408 aside).

[LeighAn]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

It was mentioned in the Ratings thread a little while ago that it's actually possible that WB will step in as TPTB after a budget cut and just double down on the marketable/profitable IP instead of fixing any story complaints, but I kind of hope it might be both (set up a good Diggle story, get Olicity back together, while still introducing more IP forced down on them, etc.), even though it's honestly kind of contradictory.

I dont think we will get any drastic changes in terms of storyline direction this season just because its a little to late. But I could see there being editing changes. Like was just me that felt like there was suppose to have been more Dinah/Curtis/Rory scenes in the last ep that were cut out? It felt like there was missing scenes in their essentially non storylines. 

I wouldnt be surprised if theyve gotten the editors to dial back the newbies. I think its also possible they will write more OTA and Olicity scenes into the last stretch of episodes but any real tonal change probably wont hapoen till next season.

Edited February 23, 2017 by LeighAn

[weathered1]

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

For me, #1 waaaaay before reuniting Olicity, is fixing Oliver. He's dumb as a doorknob. Actually, he's as dumb as one of those doorknobs that looks like a doorknob but has no innards. So more of a cabinet pull.

He's also weird, robotic, doesn't seem to care much about his loved ones, and has IMO very inappropriate reactions to stimuli. I find him much weirder now than in S1 when he was basically supposed to be weird.

I agree with all of that. Before Oliver can be in a viable relationship with anyone, they need to do some serious rehab on the character. It doesn't matter if the way he's been this season has been purposeful or if the writing really is just that terrible; either way, he's unlikable, he's regressed emotionally by a tremendous degree, he's forgotten all of the lessons he's supposed to have learned, and the list of his negative attributes goes on and on. Right now, he's not a good romantic partner. Period (imo, of course). 

If the network and/or WB were to step in (which...who knows when or if they would), I don't think they'd automatically start by coupling him up because there are a lot of people out there who do not like what this character has become and think that pretty much anyone woman deserves far better than him as a romantic partner.

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

like calling Susan Felicity in bed? :P

Wrong women and vodka makes Oliver call out Felicity's name in heat. 

[LadyChaos]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

Wrong women and vodka makes Oliver call out Felicity's name in heat. 

I just couldn't resist..........because for all the 'not like Isobel' they crying..........if she goes after Felicity then really she a lot like Isobel w/out the super powers

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm just saying somewhat shallow/easy things to fix (or at least to rush to set-up for s6) against somewhat shallow things they might be forced to write next season. "Fixing" Oliver would have to come from an actual purposeful change in acting/writing/plotting that might actually be too hard for the rest of the season. Honestly, putting Olicity back together for s6 could even help that, since imo Oliver was fine in 4a (408 aside).

I don't remotely want her with him as he is now. I like her and loathe him, so for me, sticking them back together would make her worse, without any improvement in my feelings for him.

[weathered1]

At the very, very least, I'd say that Felicity deserves a man who actually learns from his mistakes.

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, weathered1 said:

At the very, very least, I'd say that Felicity deserves a man who actually learns from his mistakes.

Or who's at least learned the alphabet. By heart. Without looking at the cheat notes written on his hand.

[Midnight Lullaby]

She also deserves a man that supports her and cares about her even if they aren't together. Or I don't even know how she is supposed to understand he still loves her.

[weathered1]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

Or who's at least learned the alphabet. By heart. Without looking at the cheat notes written on his hand.

Or who can tie his shoes without using the bunny ears method.

[theOAfc]

3 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Or who's at least learned the alphabet. By heart. Without looking at the cheat notes written on his hand.

Or someone who knows 1+1=2 and not 11.

[Velocity23]

Can you guys take this into the relationship thread? 

[tangerine95]

I don't have much hope that the show will ever stop making Oliver dumb for plot because these writers don't seem capable or willing to write storylines that allow most of characters to be smart and since Oliver gets the most focus and carries a lot of the plot, it's very apparent with him.  It's way easier to write him as a moron because that way they can push anything and not have to bother coming up with logical plots since logic would actually get in the way of most of their shocking twists and game changers. But his level of stupidity this season have been unbelievable and since he's being so unlikable it's much harder to ignore it this season. 

For me at least getting back together with Felicity would make him more likable again because she has that effect on him. And since they don't have to write against chemistry and character development to keep them apart, I think that would help me like Oliver again. Rn I think a big part of the issue is that they're making him interact with new characters who imo are all terrible and there's no emotion or investment in their relationships so there's no investment in Oliver's story either. 

[shadow2008]

No offense, but a quickie Olicity reunion isn't going to push this show to new ratings heights. Arrow's biggest issue is the terrible, outright stupid writing. A forced Olicity reunion will only deliver more of the same. What Arrow needs is a complete overhaul of it's writing staff coupled with a new showrunner team - and even that doesn't guarantee a big ratings increase because once viewers drop a show, they usually do not return. 

[LeighAn]

11 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Wrong women and vodka makes Oliver call out Felicity's name in heat. 

Ha. I would totally love them to do a Oliver calls Felicitys name out while having sex with someone else just for the laughs. Or like a Greys Anatomy thing where he thinks hes having sex with her while in the throes with someone else. But alas we are not a Shonda show. 

What we need is Ras to come back for a guest apperance to set up an Olicity sex reunion love cave. 

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, shadow2008 said:

No offense, but a quickie Olicity reunion isn't going to push this show to new ratings heights. Arrow's biggest issue is the terrible, outright stupid writing. A forced Olicity reunion will only deliver more of the same. What Arrow needs is a complete overhaul of it's writing staff coupled with a new showrunner team - and even that doesn't guarantee a big ratings increase because once viewers drop a show, they usually do not return. 

No offense but that goes for all Berlanti DCTV shows. 

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

No offense, but a quickie Olicity reunion isn't going to push this show to new ratings heights. Arrow's biggest issue is the terrible, outright stupid writing. A forced Olicity reunion will only deliver more of the same. What Arrow needs is a complete overhaul of it's writing staff coupled with a new showrunner team - and even that doesn't guarantee a big ratings increase because once viewers drop a show, they usually do not return. 

What it needs is for Berlanti to pay attention to what the people he is leaving in charge of his shows are doing.  People are complaining just as bad about Flash and Supergirl right now too.  But I imagine he is too busy trying to get CW to pick up another DCTV show he is pitching

Edited February 23, 2017 by LadyChaos

[AyChihuahua]

5 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Or someone who knows 1+1=2 and not 11.

You KNOW he has to use his fingers to count.

[Trisha]

37 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm just saying somewhat shallow/easy things to fix (or at least to rush to set-up for s6) against somewhat shallow things they might be forced to write next season. "Fixing" Oliver would have to come from an actual purposeful change in acting/writing/plotting that might actually be too hard for the rest of the season. Honestly, putting Olicity back together for s6 could even help that, since imo Oliver was fine in 4a (408 aside).

If they're shooting 519 now that means they presumably have finished writing 520-521 (though could possibly still make changes) and still have to write 522 & 523. I could totally see them reworking the last few eps to include more OTA, downplay all the noobs, start an Oliver turnaround (which hopefully involves lots of grovelling and apologizing) and reunite Olicity. Renewed or not, they're going to bleed even more viewers over the summer if they don't end on a positive or hopeful note that reconciles relationships and rehabilitates his character. (Of course, if that happens we'll get a hiatus of the fandom fighting over whether that was a last-minute change in response to ratings, or the writers' plan all along.)

Does anyone know what the episode before the spring break is? Let's hope it ends well, because if they're only managing a 0.5 during sweeps, it might return from the break to a 0.4 unless we get a big twist before the break.

Also, Susan looks like she's already back to reporting in the next episode: http://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-season-5-photos/

Edited February 23, 2017 by Trisha

[thegirlsleuth]

No matter what else happens in the season,  I always feel like the last three episodes of the season are big OTA episodes.  It's like they feel a need to withhold it for the rest of the season so we are happy with the big finish. 

Am I misremembering, or did Stephen and Wendy say that flashpoint has am impact late in the season?  "Later" could have been Digg finding out about Sara in the crossover, but I'm unsure if there's something else that's going to drop on us.

[LeighAn]

Or what the show needs if for people to manage their expectations vs reality just maybe.

Oliver has always been dumb for plot, right back as far as season 1. Just like Felicity Laurel Diggle Thea and just about every character has been dumb for plot. 

The show is what it is and has always been. Its never going to be the height of superior television writing. Its on the CW. 

The best I ask for is to be entertained in the very least even if it isnt Mad Men or Breaking Bad writing. So by all means give me characters I care about in combinations I care about that are personally entertaining and make the show more entertaining. 

[Mellowyellow]

Well lookie! Actual pictures of Felicity!!!!!!

[way2interested]

Just now, Trisha said:

Also, Susan looks like she's already back to reporting in the next episode: http://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-season-5-photos/

Forgetting Susan, those pics actually look pretty interesting.

[LadyChaos]

I'm saying that possibly by the time they were shooting 514...the network may have stepped in or started saying something.

Edited February 23, 2017 by LadyChaos

[way2interested]

Just now, Trisha said:

If they're shooting 519 now that means they presumably have finished writing 520-521 (though could possibly still make changes) and still have to write 522 & 523. I could totally see them reworking the last few eps to include more OTA, downplay all the noobs, start an Oliver turnaround (which hopefully involves lots of grovelling and apologizing) and reunite Olicity. Renewed or not, they're going to bleed even more viewers over the summer if they don't end on a positive or hopeful note that reconciles relationships and rehabilitates his character. (Of course, if that happens we'll get a hiatus of the fandom fighting over whether that was a last-minute change in response to ratings, or the writers' plan all along.)

Does anyone know what the episode before the spring break is? Let's hope it ends well, because if they're only managing a 0.5 during sweeps, it might return from the break to a 0.4 unless we get a big twist before the break.

That's what I'm overall thinking, that s5's going to end with stuffed-in high notes to get people wanting to come back, whether they were planned or not. Also, 515's the last episode before hiatus (I'm guessing, following the pattern it's been for the last few years), honestly not sure how it will end, although I doubt it can be as bad as 415 was for them.