Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

I got the impression Helix was her Prometheus-parallel. They had said she was a hero to them. Of course we don't know if Helix is an evil organization at this point.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I got the impression Helix was her Prometheus-parallel. They had said she was a hero to them. Of course we don't know if Helix is an evil organization at this point.

Yeah, I'm just spit balling, trying to find any reason why Susan is still around post 14. I'm hoping it's not anything relationship related.

[Chaser]

Can you imagine him dating her during the impeachment hearing? That would look fantastic. The Mayor who covers up murder and the Journalist who plagiarized her career.

[Trisha]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yeah, I'm just spit balling, trying to find any reason why Susan is still around post 14. I'm hoping it's not anything relationship related.

At this point I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that she'll be around in a relationship capacity. Oliver seemed indifferent about her investigation, insisted he still trusted her to keep his secret after he found out about it, kept trying to call her, and left the door open with his "whatever happens with Susan" comment. I think there's still a possibility Susan will plan something to retaliate, but she'll probably be doing it while continuing to date him. If there's no more relationship, I don't understand why her role wasn't just as an unattached journalist from the start, or why they went out of their way to try to make her seem sympathetic in this episode. 

[Morrigan2575]

I guess I took that "whatever happens with Susan" line differently. I'm not saying they won't still be dating or involved just that I hope not.

I still think she's tied to Talia somehow, if not Talia maybe Kavar and this is how they tie the flashbacks to the present.

Guess we'll find out in a week.

[Chaser]

At first I thought that line could be about their relationship but it could be about her investigation and what she decides to do now that she's been discredited. 

I wonder if she will volunteer her services at the hearing. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think she is coming back as Oliver's girlfriend but this can't be the end of her investigation..I think either she is just a journalist and will keep investigating Oliver behind his back, maybe to clear her name, or she is linked to Talia and/or Prometheus and she has an even more shady endgame.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

At first I thought that line could be about their relationship but it could be about her investigation and what she decides to do now that she's been discredited. 

I wonder if she will volunteer her services at the hearing. 

That's how I took it, not about the relationship but about the information/investigation.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tangerine95]

I think they'll continue to date but she'll go after Felicity behind his back or something. Or maybe Thea would make more sense but she doesn't seem to be in most episodes until the end of the season so with them also involving Felicity in this, I can see her being a target.

Unless they involve her with Talia, idk why she would be in almost every episode until 5. 18 at least so I'm assuming her and Oliver keep dating. But I don't see her sticking around just to be a LI since its not like her scenes with Oliver have been just about that, the investigation and her shadiness seemed to be included in their every interaction on screen so I can't see them suddenly making it all about the relationship and dropping the shady reporter angle completely. 

But if they keep them dating, imo it's beyond stupid to end the sweeps before a long break with Oliver still dating Susan. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by tangerine95

[statsgirl]

Are we assuming that it's Prometheus who leaked the info about the cover-up or Susan?  I can see her doing it as a woman scorned.

I'm still trying to find the point of Susan other than to make Oliver look incredibly stupid.  I hope she ties in to Prometheus or Talia somehow.

8 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, if the were going for making her the sympathetic character they shouldn't have had her go to a PI right after she slept with Oliver for the first time, or had her bring this up to him in the intervening two weeks, or had her confront him with the information she had on him when she first asked if he was the Green Arrow. 

I don't know if they intended to or not, but they made it look like she was using him for a story, and he was just a naive fool who fell for it. 

So I hope there's more there, but sadly he also seems just that dumb.

I can't decide if I want Oliver to hire Susan to be his media liaison during the impeachment or not.  It would be funny, but it would also make him look so stupid I wouldn't want Felicity to be stuck with him.

6 hours ago, finnaire said:

Interesting, though, that it was written so that Felicity didn't get tarnished with the brush of shame that Oliver shellacked Thea with. 

It makes me very optimistic.  What I was dreading is that the show would say Susan is good and pure after all.  Now that it's pretty well established that she isn't, I can watch with much more enjoyment.

19 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It was an interview posted before the episode aired. So no one knew what her new role at PT was at that time. But yeah, she's either is just horrible at her job or she has a bit of a bias against Felicity.

I'm pretty sure it was in the post-episode review that Natalie Abrams said that Ray had hired Felicity to be his assistant.  I have a memory of commenting in the article, along with a number of other people, correcting her that Ray had hired her as a division head, not as an assistant.  If it's not about Laurel, she didn't care.

[Trisha]

8 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Damn, the extended promo- he's actually having an impeachment hearing next ep, haha

 

Anyone else feel like MG is just using this season to live out his political fantasies? Last week he solved the gun control issue; next week he'll impeach a bad politician.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Can you imagine him dating her during the impeachment hearing? That would look fantastic. The Mayor who covers up murder and the Journalist who plagiarized her career.

They're perfect for each other!

[Midnight Lullaby]

Is too much of a conspiracy theory to think Chase leaked the info and has only been pretending to help Oliver during his day job?

[bijoux]

My money's on Susan, but I'm sure they'll prove me wrong.

[dtissagirl]

If Oliver is impeached Lance gets his job, right?

RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN, QUENTIN. SERIOUSLY.

[bijoux]

Crap. I didn't even think about that.

[Cleanqueen]

How the hell is Oliver being optimistic this season by dating a reporter who screwed his sister once and basically alluded to the fact that she could have leaked that he was GA if people would take her seriously? That isn't optimism that is pure stupidity. I haven't seen one thing that highlights Oliver being an optimist. Unless this is the writers way of showing us that you can't be the GA and be an optimist...first with Black Siren now with Susan...LOOOL.

[insomniadreams88]

My first thought was Susan leaked the information but I wonder if they'll try to play the "she's a victim" card for a couple more episodes since she's around for a few more eps. 

Maybe it was Prometheus who leaked it? Maybe he tipped off the station using carrier pigeon? He did use snail mail in 514. 

Or Chase has multiple personalities - hence being Vigilante and going after Oliver, despite helping him during the day - and we're going to learn in 515 that, when Vigilante is unmasked (I'll be shocked if Chase isn't Vigilante), he's been doing all these things that contradict one another? 

[tv echo]

It will be beyond infuriating if Oliver does more to try to win Susan back (like, being more open and sharing with her) than he did last season when he half-heartedly tried to win Felicity back (just by giving her some words).

Edited February 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

Also can we talk about how much of a mess Stephen looks this season. His hair is too long and looks greasy at times, the beard is just not right, his tie is always loose and uneven, his eyes look dead. What is going on ?

[bijoux]

I find the Chase/Vigilante thing contradictory already. I still believe he IS the same person but he either said or implied that he had lost people when he and Oliver had their confrontation. Yet, his wife was there last week, right?

I'm pretty sure Oliver's concern for Thea which SA mentioned in an interview refers to this episode, so at least it's not about her being only mostly dead this time. So there's a plus.

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

It will be beyond infuriating if Oliver does more to try to win Susan back (like, being more open and sharing with her) than he did last season when he half-heartedly tried to win Felicity back (just by giving her some words).

I think susan and oliver as a couple are over...and I don't think he wants a relationship with her. He might want to talk to her to try and ensure she doesn't give out his info. Because all she has to do is give the tip to another reporter that can run with the story. Yes her files might be deleted but her PI still exists. 

[Trisha]

8 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Also can we talk about how much of a mess Stephen looks this season. His hair is too long and looks greasy at times, the beard is just not right, his tie is always loose and uneven, his eyes look dead. What is going on ?

The only time I thought he looked really good was when he was in the Big Belly Burger scenes with Rene and Curtis earlier this season, where he was wearing fitted sweaters. But whenever he's in a suit and tie, it looks like his neck is spilling over the collar. His beard is not helping either. 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

The only time I thought he looked really good was when he was in the Big Belly Burger scenes with Rene and Curtis earlier this season, where he was wearing fitted sweaters. But whenever he's in a suit and tie, it looks like his neck is spilling over the collar. His beard is not helping either. 

Yes that is honestly the only scene and LOT portion of the crossover . He used to look good in suits in season 2, they fit better and  his beard and hair weren't this long. 

[LadyChaos]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If it's because he's disgusted with with Oliver this season, I can understand it.

There are a few people I know that follow him doggedly.....they mostly think he is as sick with the writing and the plot as everyone else......If you listen to him, when he really lights up his fave times are when its just OTA....

So one might suspect that he is just as fed up as we are, and just trying to hid it.

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

She's not in 17 at least no one seems to have any indication that she filmed. She's supposedly in 19 if Ken P's tweet is correct.

As for Susan, stupid idea I had last night. Are they trying to parallel Oliver/Prometheus with Felicity/Susan? Oliver supposedly created Prometheus by his actions in S1 and now "Dark Felicity" created Villain Susan?

I know they made it sound like this was all Thea and, I think the Thea parallel works better but, Thea isn't going to be around much in 15-18, meanwhile Susan is so I figured they'd use Felicity instead.

I could see this, TBH,  its really only a tiny leap to realize that the only person Oliver knows who is capable of hacking her computer is Felicity.  If Susan goes out to destroy Felicity and ends up getting her arrested or hurt, then Thea might feel responsible and that might be why she chooses to leave for awile to reevaluate her life again, or decide to put the suit back on.

[finnaire]

I agree Oliver has been looking schlumpy this season. I don't watch Green Arrow to see overworked, disheveled government bureaucrats in ill fitting business suits.  I'm too shallow for that.  I wonder if the beard is getting thicker for the flashbacks.  Otherwise, I actually thought he was looking pretty fine this episode. But, I also didn't think he was quite as stupid so maybe there's a correlation?

Susan doesn't strike me as the forgiving type.  If she isn't returning his phone calls it's because she's plotting something.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Susan doesn't strike me as the forgiving type.  If she isn't returning his phone calls it's because she's plotting something.

I wrote this in the ep thread, but if she isn't the one who leaked the cover-up to the nice Channel 52 reporter lady, then I will be so very disappointed. 

She doesn't seem like the forgiving type, and if she was, Oliver should be immediately suspicious. But Oliver is also dumb so...who knows?

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

 

Susan doesn't strike me as the forgiving type.  If she isn't returning his phone calls it's because she's plotting something.

If by some chance she believed Oliver when he said he didn't know, then she knows whoever did this would be someone close to him who he would have told and who had the capabilities.......If you rewatch the scene in 509 where they meet It's very clear that Felicity and Oliver are still in contact regularly and that they are being paralleled to Oliver, like eventually he will have to choose between them or they will be pitted against each other at one point.  Susan also was  kind of side eyeing Felicity. 

[insomniadreams88]

20 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I could see this, TBH,  its really only a tiny leap to realize that the only person Oliver knows who is capable of hacking her computer is Felicity. 

I don't know. Susan needed Rene to tell her Lance is a good cop, so clearly she only does research that's necessary, i.e. to build her story about Oliver. Maybe that's why Susan's around for a few more episodes - she's going to need most of those to have her PI tell her Felicity could have hacked her computer. 

8 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Susan doesn't strike me as the forgiving type.  If she isn't returning his phone calls it's because she's plotting something.

But if the writers want them to be together for a few more episodes, she will suddenly forgive him next episode - maybe after seeing the limo crash - but maybe be doing something behind his back that'll only be revealed in a later episode (518?) and he'll be so shocked because he'll have forgotten about the whole "and now I can't go public with it." 

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I wrote this in the ep thread, but if she isn't the one who leaked the cover-up to the nice Channel 52 reporter lady, then I will be so very disappointed. 

She doesn't seem like the forgiving type, and if she was, Oliver should be immediately suspicious. But Oliver is also dumb so...who knows?

This is typical OQ behavior though....... He is blind until he is forced to see that one of the women in his life did something bad.

He refused to believe that Moira was up to anything in s1

He refused to think Thea was capable of killing anyone.

Refused anything that was outside of the box with LL.

So now he is doing it with Rita Skeeter......this is really typical Oliver behavior for the women in his life

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

But if the writers want them to be together for a few more episodes, she will suddenly forgive him next episode - maybe after seeing the limo crash - but maybe be doing something behind his back that'll only be revealed in a later episode (518?) and he'll be so shocked because he'll have forgotten about the whole "and now I can't go public with it." 

Maybe Oliver's limo crashes and because he is Mayor he has to go the hospital.   Susan rushes to the hospital worried, after finding out that her leaked info nearly got him killed, only to walk in and Felicity already there with Oliver and by his side.  So it occurs to her that FS was former CEO of PT and knew her way around computers. So she slowly walks away, no longer worried about Oliver, but renewed with anger because she thinks FS did this to get Oliver back.

[finnaire]

If Susan decides to believe Oliver when he says he didn't do it then she has to know that he told someone else who did. The most likely suspect is Thea. She's his sister, she works closely with him and she warned Susan not to screw him over again. What were her words? You won't even be able to have a blog?  I don't think Susan needs to look any further than Thea, not to some hacker who may be in cahoots with her.  So, if Susan is out for payback I 'm worried about Thea.

Edited February 23, 2017 by finnaire

[way2interested]

Just now, finnaire said:

If Susan decides to believe Oliver when he says he didn't do it then she has to know that he told someone else who did. The most likely suspect is Thea. She's his sister, she works closely with him and she warned Susan not to screw him over again. What were her words? You won't even be able to have a blog?  I don't think Susan needs to look any further than Thea, not to some hacker who may be in cahoots with her.  So, if Susan is out for payback I 'm worried about Thea.

Off hand I would agree, but since WH only has 3 episodes left for the season, we're either not going to get payoff or direct focus on that until she comes back probably at the end (is Thea in 515? I thought I saw her in the promo but wasn't sure) or it's going to be directly focused on 515-518 and then WH will be gone for the year (which could happen I guess, but idk I had the feeling that Thea would be gone after 515 and come back at the end). Even with the latter, with Susan possibly being in 519 I wonder if it will go beyond Thea.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

Off hand I would agree, but since WH only has 3 episodes left for the season, we're either not going to get payoff or direct focus on that until she comes back probably at the end (is Thea in 515? I thought I saw her in the promo but wasn't sure) or it's going to be directly focused on 515-518 and then WH will be gone for the year (which could happen I guess, but idk I had the feeling that Thea would be gone after 515 and come back at the end). Even with the latter, with Susan possibly being in 519 I wonder if it will go beyond Thea.

I don't think we'll see her until the last 3 episodes... 

[way2interested]

Just now, wonderwall said:

I don't think we'll see her until the last 3 episodes... 

I'm thinking that too (although it would be the last two episodes if WH's in 515).

Also, 519's title, referring to Felicity with Helix?

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

(is Thea in 515? I thought I saw her in the promo but wasn't sure)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's with Oliver on the steps when all the reporters - the actual good reporters in Star City - are trying to get a quote from him.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yes, she appears at the beginning of the promo.

The title could be about Felicity and Helix but also about Susan finally doing some real mess.

[Midnight Lullaby]

*double post

Edited February 23, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[LadyChaos]

Have we gotten the title for 519?

Nevermind.....Dangerous liasons....got it

Edited February 23, 2017 by LadyChaos

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The title could be about Felicity and Helix but also about Susan finally doing some real mess.

I could see that too, but gosh I really hope we don't have to wait 5 more episodes for Oliver to finally acknowledge Susan's shadiness.

[jay741982]

10 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Have we gotten the title for 519?

Nevermind.....Dangerous liasons....got it

There's a movie by that title as well right?  

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

There's a movie by that title as well right?  

Yes it is actually a book turned into a movie.... that book was also the basis for Cruel Intentions

 

'Published in 1782, just years before the French Revolution, Les Liaisons Dangereuses is a disturbing and ultimately damning portrayal of a decadent society. At its centre are two aristocrats, former lovers, who embark on a sophisticated game of seduction and manipulation to bring amusement to their jaded existences. While the Marquise de Merteuil challenges the Vicomte de Valmont to seduce an innocent convent girl, the Vicomte is also occupied with the conquest of a virtuous married woman. But as their intrigues become more duplicitous and they find their human pawns responding in ways they could not have predicted, the consequences prove to be more serious, and deadly, than Merteuil and Valmont could have guessed. '

Edited February 23, 2017 by LadyChaos

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I could see that too, but gosh I really hope we don't have to wait 5 more episodes for Oliver to finally acknowledge Susan's shadiness.

Maybe she isn't around much before then..I don't remember in which episodes she will be in, it's just wishful thinking, LOL.

[Sunshine]

Was Susan actually investigating the Bratva in Star City and stumbled onto a possible Oliver Queen connection which had her digging further?  Anatoly's final words in 5.12 to Oliver about owing him one come to mind.  She ties to Russia somehow but Talia seems a stretch to me. I just wonder if after the election MG decided to make 5B more political which is why she is sticking around. 

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Was Susan actually investigating the Bratva in Star City and stumbled onto a possible Oliver Queen connection which had her digging further?  Anatoly's final words in 5.12 to Oliver about owing him one come to mind.  She ties to Russia somehow but Talia seems a stretch to me. I just wonder if after the election MG decided to make 5B more political which is why she is sticking around. 

Maybe Anatoly had asked him to deal with Susan...and Thea screwed that up because he already had a plan.

[Chaser]

If Oliver was secretly investigating Reporter then he is still stupid for not telling (at least) Thea what he was doing.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

Maybe Anatoly had asked him to deal with Susan...and Thea screwed that up because he already had a plan.

This crossed my mind. I think mainly because I don't seem to be able to accept that Oliver can be this dumb or the writers this tone deaf but also when he talked to Thea he seemed sort of aware that she didn't solve the situation for good or that was my impression anyway. If he is onto her though he would look even more like a douche to me in the scenes he had with Thea and Felicity..if you know they are genuinely worried for you reassure them, don't act like an ass.

[LadyChaos]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If Oliver was secretly investigating Reporter then he is still stupid for not telling (at least) Thea what he was doing.

Oliver has issues with telling secrets ...... the only thing that I could think of is that he might be worried that they might be worried about him renewing his ties to Bratva, and the moral ambiguity of not just flirting but sleeping with a woman to get close to her for the Bratva.  Maybe what he was secretly really worried about was that they did exactly what he was trying to avoid.  He would have known that if he asked FS to hack her computer it was have been cleaner, easier, and less vial.  However, if the Bratva knew what Felicity was really capable of, they might find more and more need to Oliver to do favors that Felicity could handle to get Felicity under their thumb and he wanted Thea and Felicity far away from Bratva. 

*Most of the time I feel like I'm actually putting out prompts for good fanfiction, instead of Arrow speculation.....because lets be honest.....TPTB wouldn't have thought that up

Edited February 23, 2017 by LadyChaos

[AyChihuahua]

23 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

This crossed my mind. I think mainly because I don't seem to be able to accept that Oliver can be this dumb or the writers this tone deaf but also when he talked to Thea he seemed sort of aware that she didn't solve the situation for good or that was my impression anyway. If he is onto her though he would look even more like a douche to me in the scenes he had with Thea and Felicity..if you know they are genuinely worried for you reassure them, don't act like an ass.

I personally think he is just that dumb now. I think, as someone else said, the writers think they're writing him as hopeful and optimistic, but since they're Neptunian, they're actually writing him as too dumb safely to take a bath by himself.

[jay741982]

44 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Yes it is actually a book turned into a movie.... that book was also the basis for Cruel Intentions

 

'Published in 1782, just years before the French Revolution, Les Liaisons Dangereuses is a disturbing and ultimately damning portrayal of a decadent society. At its centre are two aristocrats, former lovers, who embark on a sophisticated game of seduction and manipulation to bring amusement to their jaded existences. While the Marquise de Merteuil challenges the Vicomte de Valmont to seduce an innocent convent girl, the Vicomte is also occupied with the conquest of a virtuous married woman. But as their intrigues become more duplicitous and they find their human pawns responding in ways they could not have predicted, the consequences prove to be more serious, and deadly, than Merteuil and Valmont could have guessed. '

That's right now I remember where I heard of That When Cruel Intentions came out. That it was based off a book. I think it's safe to say the plot of the book won't be the plot of the Arrow Epidode.