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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I was left with the impression that Oliver is still into Susan and is going to try to get back with her.  Plus he probably is stupid enough to think that he owes her for what Thea did to her.

I'm expecting Oliver to hire her as his press secretary to make it up to her.

If she were smart, she would look around to see who could have done that to her, and land on Oliver's ex-fiance who she will think either did it out of spite, or because she's working with the Green Arrow.  Watch out, Felicity.

Well, I'm wondering if Prometheus will put Susan onto FS's path since everything else so far has not usurped FS from being OQ's right hand woman.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

You think? I didn't get that at all. I thought maybe she was hoping he would be honest with her, but I didn't think it had anything to do with feelings on her part. They should've slipped a line in there if that's the case.

I don't know that's how I understood those "emotions" she was displaying. Yes she wants him to be honest with her because then that would show he as deep feelings for her...also the fact that she was bothered about him ditching dinner..so yeah she was developing some feelings.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I'm expecting Oliver to hire her as his press secretary to make it up to her.

Please no! I guess he does have a public relations nightmare on his hand though with "Impeach Mayor Queen".  Is she simply another pawn in Prometheus' game?     

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I think the spec about Susan going after Felicity or Thea might happen. It seemed like Susan was still going to expose him until she got fired and couldn't anymore so I don't think any genuine feelings might stop her tbh.I can see her being pissed enough to want revenge.

Oliver at this point seems self destructive with his stupidity and blind trust and optimism. If he wants to get exposed and go to jail fine but he'll drag others down with him. It's so hypocritical that he's preaching about wrong choices and dark paths to other characters when he's literally back to killing people. He killed a guy in 5. 01 for knowing his secret but Thea protecting his secret by getting someone fired is a step too far lol. 

I think they'll have them still dating after this episode tho. It reminds me of that episode in season 3 when Ray was a total asshole when he found out about Oliver being GA and went after the whole team and was a jerk to Felicity and they had her defend him to Oliver and then apologize to Ray instead of dump him instantly. 

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

How thoughtful of Felicity to get Canary a mask because Canary is too dumb to also figure out she needs a mask since she now works for the SCPD. Also I just noticed Julian didn't do sultry with Emily...her acting was off in this scene. why was she all mad?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I thought she was angry that he ditched dinner because that meant he wasn't under her thrall as much as she wanted him to be.

Yeah, I would've gotten feelings more if she'd said something about being upset because she missed him and wanted to spend time with him instead of an interrogation about whether or not he was the Green Arrow.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, I would've gotten feelings more if she'd said something about being upset because she missed him and wanted to spend time with him instead of an interrogation about whether or not he was the Green Arrow.

hmm yeah that could be it....YOU KNOW WHAT I DON'T FUCKING KNOW...I HATE THIS STUPID STORYLINE...

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I just don't get why Oliver even wants to get her back. The show still hasn't done anything to show me why he'd be interested other than she's there.

(If the show plans to reunite Olicity, I better see 150% from Oliver in making it work/proving he won't do what he did last year again.) 

Oh, and after the promo for next week, I'm 98% certain that Thea's in the limo. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Also - can we talk about Vigilante going after Oliver next ep because of his corruption, but - assuming Vigilante is Chase - the cover-up was his idea and Oliver actually told him to stop?

 

LMAO

I still think he might be both Vigilante and Prometheus, multiple-personalities style.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Maybe. But how could one personality be so smart and conniving, and the other so, so dumb? So many questions.

At this point my response to any Earth logic-based objections to speculation is: It's Arrow.

I mean HOW could the Oliver who figured out gunshot trajectories and instantly came up with effective tactical responses in S1 turn into...this guy?

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It's because he's locked in a trunk, man!

That only works for me if he's been locked in a trunk since 305.

Seriously, though, if there is a twist like that, they need to show it soon. They're going toooooo far down the Oliver's-a-moron path.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

Seriously, though, if there is a twist like that, they need to show it soon. They're going toooooo far down the Oliver's-a-moron path.

His convo with Thea tonight ruined that theory for me, sad as that makes me. That he showed concern for her crossing a line and not just completely obliterating that relationship means that the dumb Oliver we're seeing is the real dumb Oliver.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

I don't think the show thinks Oliver is dumb.  He's hopeful and optimistic so he's seeing the best in everyone.  We are just watching it wrong.  :-)

I once had a neighbor who had multiple personalities.  He was fine when on his meds which wasn't always.  One time I heard a girl giggling about boys and cheerleading in my backyard.  Looked out and it was my neighbor talking to imaginary people.  Another time a tough male voice said just as I walked around the corner "I will cut you with a knife" in a very threatening way.  Needless to say I stopped in my tracks.  He was jabbing the air.  Most of the time he was just a regular guy.  Just saying that although I don't think Chase is Vigilante and Prometheus, it's not completely far-fetched.

I wonder if we are going to get a twist.  Chase is actually Prometheus and Vigilante is a rando. 

Edited by Sunshine
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Trisha

Trisha

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

His convo with Thea tonight ruined that theory for me, sad as that makes me. That he showed concern for her crossing a line and not just completely obliterating that relationship means that the dumb Oliver we're seeing is the real dumb Oliver.

The end of the Hollywood Life review had an interesting theory: maybe Oliver was so angry at Thea because he's playing Susan and Thea getting her fired screwed that up? Sounds like wishful thinking, but I'm willing to grasp at any straws that will slightly redeem Oliver at this point:  http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/02/22/arrow-thea-felicity-out-susans-investigation-of-oliver-season-5-episode-14/

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Also, there’s something to all of this Susan madness that isn’t adding up to me. Was Oliver mad because he was doing investigating of his own? Did Thea and Felicity foil his plans? That’s what I have to hope is going on, otherwise I can’t seem to understand Oliver’s sudden epiphany that he cares for a woman who has shown almost no redeeming qualities.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

Yeah I think they don't think they're writing him dumb at all. He's apparently supposed to be the optimistic one who trusts people and let's them in and the rest of the characters are going through darkness and need to be preached out of it by Oliver. I mean if this is him living in the light they can keep it, I'd rather him have some brain cells lol. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I don't think the show thinks Oliver is dumb.  He's hopeful and optimistic so he's seeing the best in everyone.  We are just watching it wrong.  :-)

I almost wish one of the writers would hop on Twitter and explain this season to me like I'm Oliver and don't have a functioning brain stem. Presuming Real!Oliver is not locked in a basement - and please note I will gladly send the writers a fruit and/or cookie bouquet if that turns out to be the case - do they think Oliver is behaving intelligently and like his typical self this year? Others have pointed out the weird acting choices. Does SA have a new acting coach? 

I would like to get enjoyment when I watch like I used to, but I can't understand the writing, plotting, and acting choices happening. 

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weathered1

weathered1

(edited)

They may think they're writing him as being optimistic and happy and sunshine, puppies, and rainbows, but the way it plays is that the man has lost every one of his brain cells. Every single one. 

For awhile, I was hopeful that he was playing the reporter, but I think we would've seen some kind of sign of that by now - nothing major or overt, just an extended shot of him looking at her in a certain way or something like that. The way it stands, though, he's the reigning president and only member of Susan's fanclub. 

If, and that's a ginormous if, the big twist is that he has been playing her, has been manipulated somehow, or has been taken out of commission (and forced to watch episodes of a formerly entertaining superhero/vigilante/comic book-based show as punishment), I'm sure they think it will make us scurry back to rewatch the entire season to look for clues. In that, they're even dumber than I thought. Spending so many episodes making him this unlikable and this mentally deficient only to (maybe) pull a gotcha! kind of twist at some point in the future doesn't come close to fixing all of the damage that's been caused. 

Edited by weathered1
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Is Susan in 515? If so, I wouldn't be surprised if we get both her and Felicity showing up at the hospital post-limo crash. 

I really am hoping this limo crash knocks some sense into Oliver. I miss liking Oliver. 

I think she's in every episode from this one till the one they just filmed (18?) (except for maybe the mostly flashback one?). Not sure if she's in 19 yet.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Trisha

Trisha

32 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Others have pointed out the weird acting choices. Does SA have a new acting coach? 

I will give him this: I think his first scene with Susan in the mayor's office was the best acting he's done with her so far. He was smile-y and relaxed and I could almost buy that he was into her. A big improvement from their post-sex scene where it looked like he couldn't wait to get away from her. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

How thoughtful of Felicity to get Canary a mask because Canary is too dumb to also figure out she needs a mask since she now works for the SCPD. Also I just noticed Julian didn't do sultry with Emily...her acting was off in this scene. why was she all mad?

What I was mostly picking up from Tinah is that she's really regretting getting involved with this bunch that totally don't have their act together and are trying to force her to replace their dead friend.  Why she hasn't already run is the bigger mystery.  

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Also - can we talk about Vigilante going after Oliver next ep because of his corruption, but - assuming Vigilante is Chase - the cover-up was his idea and Oliver actually told him to stop?

 

LMAO

 

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

I still think he might be both Vigilante and Prometheus, multiple-personalities style.

How about that Pike is actually Vigilante and Chase is Prometheus?  That would explain why he wanted to protect GA from killing Billy since he wants to make him suffer on his own timeline.  

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statsgirl

statsgirl

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

The end of the Hollywood Life review had an interesting theory: maybe Oliver was so angry at Thea because he's playing Susan and Thea getting her fired screwed that up? Sounds like wishful thinking, but I'm willing to grasp at any straws that will slightly redeem Oliver at this point:  http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/02/22/arrow-thea-felicity-out-susans-investigation-of-oliver-season-5-episode-14/

Oliver may think he's playing Susan but she would totally have outed him if Thea hadn't intervened.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Oliver may think he's playing Susan but she would totally have outed him if Thea hadn't intervened.

Yeah, if the were going for making her the sympathetic character they shouldn't have had her go to a PI right after she slept with Oliver for the first time, or had her bring this up to him in the intervening two weeks, or had her confront him with the information she had on him when she first asked if he was the Green Arrow. 

I don't know if they intended to or not, but they made it look like she was using him for a story, and he was just a naive fool who fell for it. 

So I hope there's more there, but sadly he also seems just that dumb.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

IDK - he didn't even really seem to be all that upset about it apart from what Thea did to make it happen. But that seemed to be more about Thea than Susan. Like, I'm sure he'd rather not have had this happen, but there wasn't a whole lot of angst over the relationship, just over line crossing. 

But maybe that's because he thinks he still has a chance to get back with her. 

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Chaser

Chaser

I think they are looking for another twist with Reporter. Oliver and her continue to date and the audience is supposed to think she is a good person now and then at some point they reveal her to be a snake. I'm thinking WH's next episode because I refuse to believe Thea won't get the final word.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

I kinda feel like Prometheus already won by getting Oliver to kill an innocent man, but to each his own priorities, I guess. 

Prometheus should try getting him to destroy someone's career. Since that seems to be worse on the bad scales now. 

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finnaire

finnaire

Sadly, the theory that Oliver is playing Susan was laid to rest for me.  Nothing says "I'm fucked" better than that look Oliver gave to Susan's back after she asked him if he was the Green Arrow.  It was hard for me to tell from her dithering whether she was asking him as her lovah or her subject of investigation.   Since she thought he was avoiding her (his subconscious instincts seem to be intact) it was hard to tell if it was the reporter or the insecure girlfriend who barged into his office.

Interesting, though, that it was written so that Felicity didn't get tarnished with the brush of shame that Oliver shellacked Thea with. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

25 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Sadly, the theory that Oliver is playing Susan was laid to rest for me.  Nothing says "I'm fucked" better than that look Oliver gave to Susan's back after she asked him if he was the Green Arrow.  It was hard for me to tell from her dithering whether she was asking him as her lovah or her subject of investigation.   Since she thought he was avoiding her (his subconscious instincts seem to be intact) it was hard to tell if it was the reporter or the insecure girlfriend who barged into his office.

Interesting, though, that it was written so that Felicity didn't get tarnished with the brush of shame that Oliver shellacked Thea with. 

Yeah, clearly they are keeping her dabble in the darkness separate from Thea's.  

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Also - can we talk about Vigilante going after Oliver next ep because of his corruption, but - assuming Vigilante is Chase - the cover-up was his idea and Oliver actually told him to stop?

 

LMAO

I think working with Oliver made him lose it, LOL. 

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theOAfc

theOAfc

6 hours ago, Sunshine said:

 

I don't think the show thinks Oliver is dumb.  He's hopeful and optimistic so he's seeing the best in everyone.  We are just watching it wrong.

 

Indeed.

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why she hasn't already run is the bigger mystery.  

The writers wont let her. 

I dont think Oliver is playing Susan. 

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

What I was mostly picking up from Tinah is that she's really regretting getting involved with this bunch that totally don't have their act together and are trying to force her to replace their dead friend.  Why she hasn't already run is the bigger mystery.  

 

hahaha I got that vibe from her conversation with Felicity too! Was a bit like "Gawd you lot are creepy" when Felicity kinda insisted it was ok for her to wear the dead friend's mask.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
7 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I think she's in every episode from this one till the one they just filmed (18?) (except for maybe the mostly flashback one?). Not sure if she's in 19 yet.

She's not in 17 at least no one seems to have any indication that she filmed. She's supposedly in 19 if Ken P's tweet is correct.

As for Susan, stupid idea I had last night. Are they trying to parallel Oliver/Prometheus with Felicity/Susan? Oliver supposedly created Prometheus by his actions in S1 and now "Dark Felicity" created Villain Susan?

I know they made it sound like this was all Thea and, I think the Thea parallel works better but, Thea isn't going to be around much in 15-18, meanwhile Susan is so I figured they'd use Felicity instead.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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