Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

8 hours ago, Trisha said:

 My biggest fear is the way MG and WM have backed off of saying the flashbacks are over after this season, and are now talking about doing other sorts of things in their place. I could see them closing the five year chapter by doing a big "gotcha" moment in the season finale that flashes forward to a time when everyone is in a totally different place in their lives, and we spend the next two seasons figuring out how they got there. 

They never said No Flashbacks after S5. They've always said that Oliver's island flashbacks were over. They also implied that there wouldn't be a continuous flashback storyline per season. Instead they were planning to do Flashbacks here and there for characters and possibly even to Oliver in S1 (Starling City). The impression I got was that going forward Flashbacks would be similar to Felicity, Diggle, Rene, 509 etc, something that is used to explore that particular episode/story.

I don't recall any walk back from that but, I've only skimmed the recent articles. Is there something in the media or spoiler thread where they talk about continuing Oliver's Island flashbacks in S6? 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

No, they don't talk about continuing his island flashbacks, but it went from a more clear cut thing where they'd use flashbacks as needed similar to Felicity, Diggle, Rene, 509 etc to also mentioning more vague ideas and plans of what they might do to more recent stuff sounding more like what we originally thought but the vague stuff still worries me.

I brought up Oliver's missing time because it's hard to imagine Oliver never getting featured in the flashbacks again.  One way to solve that would be a time jump that would give them something to flashback to  or to also start serving up flashforwards.  Both options I hate so I was trying to figure out when during Oliver's five years away could they set more flashbacks,  but even just with typing this out I see how likely it is that sooner or later one of the two options I hate will come true.   Unless they radically cut down on flashbacks.  Because again, how could they handle not being able to do them with their star? 

Edited February 17, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

I've never ruled out more Oliver Flashbacks and they talked back in S2 about doing Flashbacks to Oliver in SC S1 during S6 so I don't think that's off the table either.

The only impression that I've ever gotten from them regarding S6+ flashbacks is that there wouldn't be a continuous flashback storyline (no island, no Hong Kong, no island, no russia) that runs parallel to Star City story.  However,  there would be more contained flashbacks used to support individual stories/episodes.  Sounds like that hasn't changed much in their recent interviews either.

[Trisha]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't recall any walk back from that but, I've only skimmed the recent articles. Is there something in the media or spoiler thread where they talk about continuing Oliver's Island flashbacks in S6? 

I don't remember them ever saying they'd return to island flashbacks; I think they are done with Oliver's five years away after this season. When they first started talking about season 5 it was all about no flashbacks, and then soon evolved into "different" types of storytelling techniques like flashbacks of other characters, etc. Since they already tried a flash forward (and from what I can tell, think it went over well - they've never expressed regret for it like they did for the rushed Olicity breakup or all the magic), I think they could do it again. 

I'd hate it but I could totally see them trying to avoid "drama" and jumping to a time when Olicity is suddenly together. They always seem to skip past the good parts I wish we'd seen in that relationship (the flirtfest between S2-S3, the trip around the world after S3, etc). 

[Morrigan2575]

24 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I don't remember them ever saying they'd return to island flashbacks; I think they are done with Oliver's five years away after this season. When they first started talking about season 5 it was all about no flashbacks,

I don't recall them ever saying no flashbacks. They've only ever said no "island" flashbacks. Which refers to the continuous season long parallel stories (Island, Hong Kong, Russia, etc). They have for years said there would be flashbacks of some kind in S6. Like I said, as far back as S2 they were toying with doing S1 SC flashbacks in S6. 

All I've ever heard from MG and WM this season is "no island flashbacks" but they plan to do character type flashbacks. They want to use Flashbacks to tell a specific story, not parallel an entire season.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

I'm pretty convinced that Prometheus is Justin Claybourne's son.  There have been too many interview comments about how Prometheus was Oliver's "dark mirror" and paralleled Oliver, in that they're both sons acting on their fathers' legacies. So yeah, I think he will be Claybourne's son. The only surprise will be if Claybourne's son turns out to be someone we know (which allows for the Malone possibility) and/or if he has any sisters, relatives or cohorts.

I'm also skeptical of an Olicity reunion this season (though I would love to be surprised by one and only if it's permanent). However, I agree that there's still hope and that there's more chemistry between Oliver & Felicity than there is between Oliver and Tinah.

Still, the EPs/writers can do whatever they want.  A year from now, if they've hooked up Oliver and Tinah, I can see them saying that they laid the foundation stones for building their relationship in S5 with Oliver learning to trust and confide in Tinah, taking her advice, becoming friends, fighting together, etc. (Oliver & Felicity started off as just friends, albeit with a lot more chemistry.) There is also that MG comment about how Tinah is someone who comes to the team "without the burden of having dealt with all of Oliver's secrets and in some cases lies and mishegas" and "without the baggage of the past four seasons." It could very well be that they want Oliver to start afresh with someone new, who he hasn't lied to or deceived. He is the 'hero' of the show, after all.  The thinking could be that, just as Lauriver was tainted by the sister-swapping, now Olicity is tainted by the BMD. Did he ever apologize to Laurel, by the way? We know he never apologized to Felicity. He just keeps going, and the EPs go out of their way to justify his selfish actions.

Tinah got Laurel's name and Sara's bo staff. She's got cop training and some bo staff training while undercover with the Pilgrims(!), so now she's apparently an expert bo staff user? Waiting for the weapons-switching fight scene with Oliver, where she fights as if she had League training like Sara...

Edited February 17, 2017 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

I think the spoilers were that Felicity shows Dinah her new costume..not sure if it is a final one and that the team discusses what Susan knows and that she wasn't sure if Oliver is there for that discussion.

It is interesting that the team discusses what she knows. To me that means that they think she is the one who leaked to the ACU that GA killed Billy. The question is, how does she find that out. 

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

It is interesting that the team discusses what she knows. To me that means that they think she is the one who leaked to the ACU that GA killed Billy. The question is, how does she find that out. 

Maybe Helix tips Felicity off? And that's how others start finding out about Pandora? 

[apinknightmare]

What I'd like to know is HOW anyone could know what info Susan has on Oliver - her PI is passing her pics in an empty parking lot at night. Did someone hack a satellite to follow Susie day/night? Are there cameras in her place? 

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What I'd like to know is HOW anyone could know what info Susan has on Oliver - her PI is passing her pics in an empty parking lot at night. Did someone hack a satellite to follow Susie day/night? Are there cameras in her place? 

Maybe she's putting everything together on her computer? Maybe she's told her producer? (I still can't get over her producer just apparently sitting back and letting her give Oliver the 30-day reprieve and now having no problem with her dating him/missing out on the big story in 513?) For all we know, she could be typing up everything Oliver tells her/she finds out after every time she sees him/meets with her PI. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by insomniadreams88
clarification on "he"

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What I'd like to know is HOW anyone could know what info Susan has on Oliver - her PI is passing her pics in an empty parking lot at night. Did someone hack a satellite to follow Susie day/night? Are there cameras in her place? 

That's why I am thinking that if Susan does make the report about GA and Billy then the team investigates her and "finds out what she knows"

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

That's why I am thinking that if Susan does make the report about GA and Billy then the team investigates her and "finds out what she knows"

Either that or she doesn't run her report but no one knows how the cops put the pieces together, so since it's common knowledge that she's investigating Billy's death (Oliver and Diggle were present when she mentioned it), Felicity looks into her to see if the info came from her/what else she knows about Oliver. 

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe she's putting everything together on her computer? Maybe she's told her producer? (I still can't get over her producer just apparently sitting back and letting her give Oliver the 30-day reprieve and now having no problem with her dating him/missing out on the big story in 513?) For all we know, she could be typing up everything Oliver tells her/she finds out after every time she sees him/meets with her PI. 

I really hope someone breaks into her apartment and finds a weird murder wall with red strings connecting random pics and news clips together about Green Arrow/Oliver.

[Cleanqueen]

I don't recall what Chase said completely. But who was it that hid the info that GA killed Malone...just his office or him?

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I don't recall what Chase said completely. But who was it that hid the info that GA killed Malone...just his office or him?

It was pretty much him - he said that he was "taking care of" the other cops on the scene and the coroner. 

[Cleanqueen]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It was pretty much him - he said that he was "taking care of" the other cops on the scene and the coroner. 

So there is still a potential for someone in that team leaking that info to Susan if she was to snoop further then. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

So there is still a potential for someone in that team leaking that info to Susan if she was to snoop further then. 

Especially since she's been paying a PI for information on Oliver. I'm sure she'd have no problem trying to pay off a cop or having her PI do that. 

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

So there is still a potential for someone in that team leaking that info to Susan if she was to snoop further then. 

Yeah - and there's potential for those people coming forward with what they knew - taking Susan out of the equation for exposing Green Arrow as Billy's killer, too. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

If Chase stops covering for Oliver like he asked then he and all the people involved can answer Susan's questions truthfully and she can write her piece about the GA killing Billy. I can't even blame any of them because they would simply do their jobs and not even hiding anything from Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

If Chase stops covering up Billy's murder then Susan doesn't even have to write anything about the Green Arrow killing Billy - that's why it's doubly stupid for Oliver to tell him to stop doing it. Not only could one of the cops or the coroner that Chase was keeping quiet come forward since he wouldn't be keeping them quiet anymore, but he knows Susan's digging around that murder too. 

Unless, I guess...he wants to get caught? Certainly seems like it. In which case Human Target better have the real Oliver hidden in a trunk ala Mad Eye Moody on Prometheus's orders, because otherwise...WHY?

Edited February 17, 2017 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If Chase stops covering up Billy's murder then Susan doesn't even have to write anything about the Green Arrow killing Billy - that's why it's doubly stupid for Oliver to tell him to stop doing it. Not only could one of the cops or the coroner that Chase was keeping quiet come forward since he wouldn't be keeping them quiet anymore, but he knows Susan's digging around that murder too. 

Unless, I guess...he wants to get caught? Certainly seems like it. In which case Human Target better have the real Oliver hidden in a trunk ala Mad Eye Moody on Prometheus's orders, because otherwise...WHY?

Yeah, I don't get Oliver at all this season. And the thing is, if he's caught? I doubt the investigation would stop with him. Everyone knows GA has a team now. So it's very possible that the others could be caught too? As accessories maybe? Unless his plan is to try to make a deal for them? It just seems like Oliver's being very careless and taking too many risks with other people's secrets on the line as well this season. 

[Morrigan2575]

I asked this before but, I think it got lost in all the Susan stuff.

MG said 14 is where were going to see the chess board/pieces that Prometheus has laid out. I'm guessing part of it could be Helix/Pandora to corrupt Felicity. Is there any way that Susan's PI could be Jason Clayborne's son AKA Prometheus? Maybe he's feeding her info in hopes that she exposes Oliver Queen as GA? 

That could be one way to redeem Susan, she was being manipulated by the Big Bad not working for him? 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I asked this before but, I think it got lost in all the Susan stuff.

MG said 14 is where were going to see the chess board/pieces that Prometheus has laid out. I'm guessing part of it could be Helix/Pandora to corrupt Felicity. Is there any way that Susan's PI could be Jason Clayborne's son AKA Prometheus? Maybe he's feeding her info in hopes that she exposes Oliver Queen as GA? 

That could be one way to redeem Susan, she was being manipulated by the Big Bad not working for him? 

But Prometheus doesn't want him exposed, thats what he said to Church. He wants him to suffer in different ways. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I asked this before but, I think it got lost in all the Susan stuff.

MG said 14 is where were going to see the chess board/pieces that Prometheus has laid out. I'm guessing part of it could be Helix/Pandora to corrupt Felicity. Is there any way that Susan's PI could be Jason Clayborne's son AKA Prometheus? Maybe he's feeding her info in hopes that she exposes Oliver Queen as GA? 

That could be one way to redeem Susan, she was being manipulated by the Big Bad not working for him? 

But that would then mean he sought her out? I guess I always assumed she hired him? It would be a big gamble to wait and hope that a reporter would hire him to get information on Oliver to make that plan work. 

It did cross my mind once or twice that the PI could be Prometheus - that way they could say, "see, we've shown him on-screen before the reveal!" - but I think if that ended up being the case, everyone would go, "huh? Who's that?" and they'd probably have to show flashbacks like they did with Billy when he died. 

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, I don't get Oliver at all this season. And the thing is, if he's caught? I doubt the investigation would stop with him. Everyone knows GA has a team now. So it's very possible that the others could be caught too? As accessories maybe? Unless his plan is to try to make a deal for them? It just seems like Oliver's being very careless and taking too many risks with other people's secrets on the line as well this season. 

To me it's not even careless at this point - it's self-sabotaging. Like...Chase was pretty clear that he was keeping his guys quiet. He stops keeping his guys quiet, either they come forward about what they saw, or Susan asks it out of them like Oliver knows she's doing. If the Human Target actor had been spotted on set I'd almost think we'd find out that he's been working with Prometheus or some other baddie and pretending to be Oliver at certain times - THAT'S how self-sabotaging he's being. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

But Prometheus doesn't want him exposed, thats what he said to Church. He wants him to suffer in different ways. 

That's a good point, i forgot about his talk with Church.

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

To me it's not even careless at this point - it's self-sabotaging. Like...Chase was pretty clear that he was keeping his guys quiet. He stops keeping his guys quiet, either they come forward about what they saw, or Susan asks it out of them like Oliver knows she's doing. If the Human Target actor had been spotted on set I'd almost think we'd find out that he's been working with Prometheus or some other baddie and pretending to be Oliver at certain times - THAT'S how self-sabotaging he's being. 

Exactly. I guess he acts like this because the plot needs him to or I could fanwank that he is depressed judging from the way SA is playing him and wants to get caught and end his career as mayor and the GA. I know it's not happening though, LOL. The alternative is that he might be so naive to think even if it comes out people are going to be fine with it because it should come out that it was a set up too.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It did cross my mind once or twice that the PI could be Prometheus - that way they could say, "see, we've shown him on-screen before the reveal!" - but I think if that ended up being the case, everyone would go, "huh? Who's that?" and they'd probably have to show flashbacks like they did with Billy when he died. 

That was in fact one of my main thoughts after reading MGs comments.  Like they were going to pull a surprise Jason's Clayborne's son has been here all along!

[Sunshine]

Wild idea could Human Target be Claybourne's son?  

[AyChihuahua]

45 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

To me it's not even careless at this point - it's self-sabotaging. Like...Chase was pretty clear that he was keeping his guys quiet. He stops keeping his guys quiet, either they come forward about what they saw, or Susan asks it out of them like Oliver knows she's doing. If the Human Target actor had been spotted on set I'd almost think we'd find out that he's been working with Prometheus or some other baddie and pretending to be Oliver at certain times - THAT'S how self-sabotaging he's being. 

That would be kind of an awesome twist. It'd be tough to pull off, though. For example, it couldn't be just HT/Prometheus/fakeOliver banging Susie, bc realOliver would presumably be perplexed when she thinks they have a relationship. I guess a Mad-Eye Moody situation could work, like Prometheus has Oliver chained to a chair in a dungeon helplessly watching fakeOliver ruin all his relationships?

I doubt they could pull it off, and it might really, really piss off the audience, but it could be a great twist.

[way2interested]

Quote

Does Thea have anything coming up on Arrow? —Justin

Finally returned from that dreaded conference (and with her sharp tongue wonderfully on display), Thea is “headed in a direction that’s very similar to where her mother was before she was killed in Season 2. We’re excited about it,” says co-showrunner Wendy Mericle. “She’s been dealing with all of these issues the same way Oliver has — with her bloodlust and with other elements of her past — and this season’s going to find her in a similar place but for very different reasons..” EP Marc Guggenheim promises “some really terrific Oliver/Thea scenes in next week’s episode and beyond,” including what Mericle deemed “one of my favorites on the show.”

Nothing really new, but full-on confirmation that Thea's in 514 and has a special scene with Oliver (hopefully more Susan bashing), which makes it 11 episodes so far, right? So it means that she probably won't be back until 521-523?

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I guess a Mad-Eye Moody situation could work, like Prometheus has Oliver chained to a chair in a dungeon helplessly watching fakeOliver ruin all his relationships?

Yeah, I think it'd have to be a total Mad-Eye Moody situation since the logistics of having the real Oliver around would be too tough to navigate. He can't be missing for some things and then around for others, since like you said - the real Oliver be totally confused. 

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

 I guess a Mad-Eye Moody situation could work, like Prometheus has Oliver chained to a chair in a dungeon helplessly watching fakeOliver ruin all his relationships?

That's about the only way they can have Oliver come out of this not looking like a complete moron this year. I'd allow it. But, it's this Show, so...sigh. 

The more I think about it, the more I would actually love it. Can you imagine Real!Oliver being all, you recruited another fighter? Who has the same name as my ex's mom? WTF people! You made WD an assistant? What were you thinking??

Yes, please, make this happen.

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

 I guess a Mad-Eye Moody situation could work, like Prometheus has Oliver chained to a chair in a dungeon helplessly watching fakeOliver ruin all his relationships?

In this scenario, when would HT have replaced Oliver? And what about the scars/tattoos on Oliver in the 5x12 scene? That would be some serious commitment/one hell of a make-up job for Susan not to go, "hey, these scars aren't real?" 

How sad it is that the only way the Oliver we're seeing on screen in season 5 makes complete sense is if he's been replaced? 

[apinknightmare]

18 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

In this scenario, when would HT have replaced Oliver? And what about the scars/tattoos on Oliver in the 5x12 scene? That would be some serious commitment/one hell of a make-up job for Susan not to go, "hey, these scars aren't real?" 

Sometime after the sex and before he told Chase to stop covering up Billy's murder, maybe? I mean - I just can't figure out any other reason why Oliver would be okay with Chase covering it up two episodes ago, and suddenly not okay now that his girlfriend is digging into the mystery - there's zero reason for him to want to get caught as Green Arrow or Billy's murderer here. 

It would be deliciously evil for whoever would be behind a HT doppleganger situation to have him fuck Oliver's life up and then take off, leaving real Oliver to pick up the pieces. If only the show would ever go there.

Edited February 17, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Nothing really new, but full-on confirmation that Thea's in 514 and has a special scene with Oliver (hopefully more Susan bashing), which makes it 11 episodes so far, right? So it means that she probably won't be back until 521-523?

Yeah I would think.

[finnaire]

I had just been thinking that Oliver might have brought back Human Target to replace himself but I couldn't quite make that work. But, the idea that Prometheus has Oliver imprisoned and has subbed in HT is kind of fun to contemplate.  So much more of this season would make sense and I might actually be able to forgive and forget all of Oliver's dumbass behavior.

HT is how the PI tracked down the picture of Oliver in Russia and got Susan started on that investigation.

Edited February 17, 2017 by finnaire

[Chaser]

Is there any spoiler indicating HT is coming back?

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Is there any spoiler indicating HT is coming back?

I don't think so. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Is there any spoiler indicating HT is coming back?

I think all we have is the actor liking a tweet that he should return or something? 

[apinknightmare]

If they were concerned about keeping a twist a secret, they could just have HT Oliver talking to real Oliver down in his lil trunk prison. Real Oliver could call him "Chance" or whatever, show us a FB or two of him pretending to be real Oliver in 5x05*.

 

 

*I know this is a HUGE reach, but I'm desperate for something less stupid than we're being shown, haha 

Edited February 17, 2017 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

*I know this is a HUGE reach, but I'm desperate for something less stupid than we're being shown, haha 

I'm with you, but I'm also desperate enough to cling to this ridiculous idea that Oliver's stuck in a basement somewhere to make sense of all the nonsensical choices/behavior he's made this year. My other piece of made-up in my own head evidence is that HT is like Chekov's gun! If you set that up as an option in the beginning of the season, you have to use it again by the end! (My delusion game is fierce.)

[finnaire]

In 5.11 Oliver shot Prometheus with an arrow filled with some drug (Diazepam?) that didn't have any effect on him. We know HT can take bullets without being killed. Is he unkillable in general? Is he a meta? What is he?  (Obviously I don't read comics.)

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, finnaire said:

In 5.11 Oliver shot Prometheus with an arrow filled with some drug (Diazepam?) that didn't have any effect on him. We know HT can take bullets without being killed. Is he unkillable in general? Is he a meta? What is he?  (Obviously I don't read comics.)

Wasn't he just wearing a bulletproof vest and some kind of high-tech mask?

[finnaire]

13 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Wasn't he just wearing a bulletproof vest and some kind of high-tech mask?

Was he? Oliver could have done that. I got the impression from the FB that he had some ability to morph his body into who he was imitating. But, then I don't know why he'd need the mask.

Maybe he's Susan!

Edited February 17, 2017 by finnaire

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Was he? Oliver could have done that. I got the impression from the FB that he had some ability to morph his body into who he was imitating. But, then I don't know why he'd need the mask.

Hopefully someone who watched and paid close attention (aka not me) will weigh in.

[apinknightmare]

He definitely wore a mask (Felicity put it on and imitated Oliver). I'm assuming he had a bulletproof vest on too - I don't remember that being shown, but it probably was. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

13 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Was he? Oliver could have done that.

From what I remember, that was a large part of commenters' issues with the episode...HT-as-Oliver didn't do anything regular Oliver couldn't have done.

[finnaire]

Yeah, according to Wiki, he's just basically a stunt double with a mask.  I don't see how he could stand in for someone else for very long without being caught out.

I guess he could still be Prometheus. But it would be a pretty big coincidence that OQ would need HT's services at the very same time HT/Prometheus decided to get his revenge.

Damn, guess this means Oliver is still just gonna be a dumbass.

ETA: It does put him in Russia the same time that Talia was there.  Both, ostensibly to help Oliver.

Edited February 17, 2017 by finnaire

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, finnaire said:

 

Yeah, according to Wiki, he's just basically a stunt double with a mask.  I don't see how he could stand in for someone else for very long without being caught out.

I think the way the show set him up he could. 

[insomniadreams88]

16 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

From what I remember, that was a large part of commenters' issues with the episode...HT-as-Oliver didn't do anything regular Oliver couldn't have done.

Yep. The only thing I could think of was if the shooter had aimed for his head - but then wouldn't that make HT sort of suicidal, to be willing to take that risk, possibly multiple times for different clients? 

I think they just really wanted the whole "Oliver is shot - wait, it's not Oliver, look, this is Human Target! We have Human Target on our show!"