Spoiler Discussion Thread

[LeighAn]

Yeah I'm not totally discounting Susan screwing Oliver over. I mean I can easily see a magic penis situation and like the Felicity/Ray storyline it being a case of her being a good temporary relationship for Oliver but his heart was meant else where cue sad break up.

But again as @Chaser mentioned they seem to be playing up her shadiness and the fact that she is investigating him and close to having indisputable proof he's the Green Arrow.

The more interesting place to take that would be that she screws him over and Oliver has to grapple with the fall out. By all means show her being conflicted out of her feelings for Oliver but ultimately letting her journalistic ambitions win out and deciding it's too big a story to keep covered up.

But I guess I could see them doing a whole she finds out he's the Arrow and everything he's done to protect the city and becomes a fan and keeps Olivers secret because the Green Arrow is too important yada yada or Oliver makes the choice to go public and Susan gets the exclusive bit it seems like the blandest place to take the story.

Oh well time flies fast so hopefully Susan will fly by just as fast.

[statsgirl]

I can't express how much I hate the idea that Oliver is going to out himself as the Green Arrow.  That may work in a comic book this show has based itself on a realistic version of of a comic book show.  The minute Oliver outs himself, he's identified himself as committing multiple serious crimes and he's useless.

57 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Or basically EVERY Olicity cockblocking stall relationship ever on the show. The hookup with Isabel was pointless, Ray was pointless in the grand scheme of things Billy was pointless, and Susan is ultimately going to prove to be pointless.

I think those characters had a point in themselves though.  Isabel was about Oliver learning that being a CEO is much harder than the thought, she brought Moira and Robert into the equation and she was working with Slade to bring Oliver down.

Sara was there to stall Laurel becoming the Black Canary as well as Olicity, and then she ended up becoming one of the most awesome characters this show has produced.

20 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Ray was a total douche bag to Felicity, he came across as a stalker and borderline harasser at the start of season 3 and then basically used Felicitys skills for his own personal gain, stole her technology for his suit with out her knowledge, came across as insecure and jealous of her intelligence over his own, very rarely gave her credit for her part in designing his suit, acted like a total dick to her when finding out about Oliver being the Green Arrow even though he expected her to keep his vigilante secrets and then let her apologise for her behaviour without apologising for his own. And yet Felicity still talked him up like he was the greatest.

That may have been how he ended up due to the writing but he was more about taking QC away from Oliver to free up Oliver for his Ra's al Ghul stuff and of course to create the character for a spin-off.  AK said that they wanted to write a character that would give Felicity a real choice so that she would have an alternative to Oliver (unlike Billy who is just a plot contrivance, poor guy) and I think he really believed that about Ray.

If Susan doesn't screw Oliver over, there is literally no point to having her existence on the show at all.  Maybe to spoil Thea's relationship with Oliver but that's a negative.

Edited February 16, 2017 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

Here's the thing: If Susan gets this exclusive, how's that going to start? "I'm sitting down with Oliver Queen, my boyfriend (maybe ex by that point), I mean, the mayor, who is also the Green Arrow, which I found out about when I started looking into his past while sleeping with him..." Please let all the reporters who were actually there for the press conference in 5x13 during the biggest story in Star City tear her apart. 

[AyChihuahua]

8 hours ago, weathered1 said:

^^ I have to reiterate that I would *really* hate it - like flames, flames on the side of my face hate it - if they use the freakin' reporter as an excuse to write Thea off permanently or even if it's just for x amount of episodes (assuming Willa still has a job next season and the episode count remains at 14). 

This makes a lot of sense to me. I really don't think they originally planned to keep the reporter around this long, but if they decided to let Willa go (whether permanently or temporarily), this would make keeping the reporter around make sense.

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I can't express how much I hate the idea that Oliver is going to out himself as the Green Arrow.  That may work in a comic book this show has based itself on a realistic version of of a comic book show.  The minute Oliver outs himself, he's identified himself as committing multiple serious crimes and he's useless.

I think those characters had a point in themselves though.  Isabel was about Oliver learning that being a CEO is much harder than the thought, she brought Moira and Robert into the equation and she was working with Slade to bring Oliver down.

Sara was there to stall Laurel becoming the Black Canary as well as Olicity, and then she ended up becoming one of the most awesome characters this show has produced.

That may have been how he ended up due to the writing but he was more about taking QC away from Oliver to free up Oliver for his Ra's al Ghul stuff and of course to create the character for a spin-off.  AK said that they wanted to write a character that would give Felicity a real choice so that she would have an alternative to Oliver (unlike Billy who is just a plot contrivance, poor guy) and I think he really believed that about Ray.

And the writers in interviews are trying to make the argument that Susan is a real choice/option for Oliver and yet like it was obvious Felicity was never going to choose Ray in any real way and the relationship was doomed to fail, like Sara was talked up and yet the relationship was written as doomed to fail.... so is Susan and Oliver being written as doomed to fail and making it pretty obvious that Oliver once he gets his head out of his ass isn't in love with her in any real way that would eliminate his relationship and live for Felicity.

Sara Isabel Ray Billy Susan all had their uses or lessons for Oliver and Felicity but their most important job was stalling/Killing time for Olicity. That's it. Nothing else. *shrug* 

So I'm not going to get in a tizz over it Ill just roll my eyes, take deep breaths, count to ten and hope when it goes away that the Olicity is soo good that it wipes Soonzane from my memory.

[Tazmania]

7 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

This makes a lot of sense to me. I really don't think they originally planned to keep the reporter around this long, but if they decided to let Willa go (whether permanently or temporarily), this would make keeping the reporter around make sense.

Thea might have been a brat in the past but her Suzy Snoozefest hate is delicious. She is also very pretty to look at. 

 

 

By the way, just caught the promo for next ep ... not a single sign of Felicity 

[dtissagirl]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

The minute Oliver outs himself, he's identified himself as committing multiple serious crimes and he's useless.

They can get him out on a technicality here if he says he's only the Green Arrow, not the Hood nor the Arrow. That was the guy who committed multiple crimes, and that guy went to prison and then died there. Since then Oliver killed two terrorists, Ra's and DD -- that can easily get a positive spin [he got the help of the entire city to fight DD, that one is super easy]. And he accidentally killed a cop, but that one can be spun as well, I mean, Chase has already spun it when he figured out it was a set up.

[Midnight Lullaby]

But judging from what we are seeing on screen Ray and Felicity had a real relationship and they cared for each other, instead the last thing they showed of Susan was her digging in Oliver's past to expose him. They even made it look like she wanted to sleep with him so she could confirm he had the tattoo. I can't compare this relationship with Felicity and Ray or any of the other relationships Oliver had with other women because nothing I have seen so far showed me Susan cares for Oliver. I saw more emotion from Isabel and we all know how much she (didn't) care for Oliver.

In season 3 we all knew Oliver was going to change his "I can't be with anyone" stance because it's a tv show, but if he didn't then who knows, Felicity might have decided to settle for Ray. Not particularly romantic but not impossible either. Here instead since one part of the couple uses the other as a source of information I don't see any kind of future for them. Even if Felicity didn't exist. Susan's story could have been the same without having a relationship with Oliver..it's pointless and makes Oliver look bad.

[Mellowyellow]

I also have to add that there are Raylicity shippers around  (I'm sure there's someone else besides me)! Is any one a Susan fan? Anyone??????

Also I found Ray and Felicity had a lot in common and similarities in their temperaments (loved the ep where Oliver said they could be related). 

Ray also had a lot of screentime and even met Felicity’s mum.

I really liked Ray (ok I totally love him on LoT) and imo he was a fully developed character. 

This Reporter cow only shows up once in a while to look skeevy and b$tchy and they keep on claiming she is all in with Oliver. It's bizzare! I'm rolling with it but it's bizzare!

Edited February 16, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[AyChihuahua]

17 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

Thea might have been a brat in the past but her Suzy Snoozefest hate is delicious. She is also very pretty to look at. 

Oh, I like both Thea and Willa. I thought Willa was surprisingly believable as a superhero last season. I don't want her gone at all, I just have a need to understand things, and this is the first theory I've heard that makes sense to me re why the hell this reporter NO ONE cares about (I realize "no one" is an exaggeration, but...not by much) is still around.

[Belinea]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

It's bizzare! I'm rolling with it but it's bizzare!

Which sums up the show at this point for me. Sometimes I wonder whether it is actually as difficult as they make it out to be to write a superhero show. 

[statsgirl]

15 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

They can get him out on a technicality here if he says he's only the Green Arrow, not the Hood nor the Arrow. That was the guy who committed multiple crimes, and that guy went to prison and then died there. Since then Oliver killed two terrorists, Ra's and DD -- that can easily get a positive spin [he got the help of the entire city to fight DD, that one is super easy]. And he accidentally killed a cop, but that one can be spun as well, I mean, Chase has already spun it when he figured out it was a set up.

For the past, yes, he can get off.  But what are they going to do for season 6?  They will have ruined the whole point of their show.

22 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

And the writers in interviews are trying to make the argument that Susan is a real choice/option for Oliver and yet like it was obvious Felicity was never going to choose Ray in any real way and the relationship was doomed to fail

Felicity/Ray was doomed to fail because Felicity loved Oliver and as soon as he was ready, she was his.  But if he was never ready, she might have been able to build a decent life with Ray.

Susan is so shady, she's only an option for Oliver if he's brain dead.  Which granted, may be possible given his behaviour lately.

[AyChihuahua]

17 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

They can get him out on a technicality here if he says he's only the Green Arrow, not the Hood nor the Arrow. That was the guy who committed multiple crimes, and that guy went to prison and then died there. Since then Oliver killed two terrorists, Ra's and DD -- that can easily get a positive spin [he got the help of the entire city to fight DD, that one is super easy]. And he accidentally killed a cop, but that one can be spun as well, I mean, Chase has already spun it when he figured out it was a set up.

Just being a vigilante is illegal. Even as Green Arrow he's committing multiple state and federal felonies every day, as are all his teammates. So the whole idea gives me hives, but hey, whatevs, show. You're dumb nowadays, may as well go all in on the dumb.

[LeighAn]

I'm sorry I don't get the whole Ray was a great guy, Felicity really loved him argument. Just like I don't get the whole Billy was a great guy that Felicity really loved that I've heard.

Im not saying there was no feelings there but EVERY time Felicity went to Ray it was after Oliver had done something to push her away. The relationship was completely reactionary IMO and was doomed to fail.

She accepted the job with Ray because she didn't want to watch Oliver kill himself, she went to dinner with Ray after asking Oliver if he cared   (with the clear implication that she wanted him to say he cared) and he told her to do what she wants, she kissed Ray after hearing Oliver tell her he could never be with anyone, she agreed to help Ray with the suit after believing Oliver was dead and not want Ray to follow suit, she slept with Ray after being pissed that Oliver was handing himself over to Ras, etc etc. It was totally reactionary and based on Oliver and not about just her and her feelings for Ray. Which was why she never said she loved him.

I don't think Susan and Oliver are as clear cut as Ray and Felicity but again I don't think Susan and Oliver are being written as being about Susan and Oliver. I think it's both Oliver trying to prove to himself and Felicity that he's moved on or capable of moving on with the added extra of showing that Olivers not a completely hopeless person who thinks there's no one for him and that he's meant to die alone. That's he's capable of dating and firming emotional connections yada yada.

But mainly like Ray she's a cock block stall to prolong the Okicity reunion whether it be this season or next.

[JJ928]

I think if Susan turns out to be team Oliver, and doesn't betray him for her career... then she'll most likely be killed. I mean, Arrow loves fridging women for Oliver's man-pain, and Susan provides them a way of doing it, without having to remove someone from the core cast. It's gross as hell but something this show has done several times.

The other way I can see it going is, that Susan does screw him but she's not working for anyone but herself. Maybe after putting out her story she feels guilty and wants to reconcile with Oliver... then she dies. LOL

This is Arrow, so for me her story will most likely end in death because I don't see them killing any of the core cast or newbies.

Edited February 16, 2017 by JJ928
because I suck typing on an iphone

[Midnight Lullaby]

Felicity didn't love Ray but she cared for him and his wellbeing..she showed as much. And Ray told her he loved her. With Susan and Oliver he says he cares about her looking like he is dead inside and she doesn't say anything except trying to grill him about what he has done during the five years he was away.

Ray and Felicity were a stall for Oliver and Felicity and also explored Felicity in a relationship that we haven't seen before. What does Susan add as Oliver's "girlfriend"? She is interesting in the plot because she is shady but if they wanted to show that Oliver wanted to start over (and eventually make him fail because he still loves Felicity) they should have done it with a person that was a viable candidate so I could say it didn't work out because he didn't love her, not it didn't work out because she was using him from the start and slept with him to see his tattoo. Yikes.

I think they should have avoided going with the icky relationship/sex/whatever they are doing that I can't label. She would have had the same shady role and Oliver and Felicity would have still being stalled because he killed her boyfriend and now Felicity is looking for revenge so getting back together isn't on their minds.

[statsgirl]

Ray was both a viable love interest for Felicity (more or less, even if you didn't like him, he appreciated her and promoted her in a season when both Oliver and Diggle spent considerable time acting like she was a prop*) and served a plot purpose.  MG and WM probably wanted to use Susan like that too, her job investigating him and as a love interest to show he's trying to move on. The problem is that the latter is such a massive fail, it's spoiling whatever is good about the former.

* Ray spend one (terrible) episode dismissing Felicity and downplaying her accomplishments; Oliver spent most of season 3 dismissing her ideas and disregarding her feelings because of his manpain.

[Cleanqueen]

Oliver says Susan is good at her job? What has she done to display that she is good at her job? And the fact that she even missed the biggest story for the Mayor's office and the city as a whole was baffling. 

[tv echo]

Okay, here's my wild conspiracy theory of the day...

Doris Chase and Dinah Drake are sisters. Or, better yet (since Dinah is a comics character), Doris Chase and Susan Williams are sisters. They, along with Adrian Chase, are all part of the conspiracy to take down the Green Arrow.

I swear, the new brunettes on the show this season all look similar enough to be related.

Doris Chase (Parveen Dosanjh):

Edited February 16, 2017 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

Doris. Good god. DORIS.

[Sunshine]

Next subject ?...

So Mayor Queen is dumb enough to think that the circumstances surrounding Billy's death will prevent the ACU/SCPD from thinking Green Arrow is a murderer?  

[insomniadreams88]

Wait, isn't Doris in 515? Maybe Chase and Doris are in the limo for some reason? Doris gets killed. Chase-as-Vigilante goes after Oliver. (Maybe it was even supposed to be Oliver in the limo, but he gave it to Chase to use for the night?) That might be the entire point of us (and Oliver) meeting Doris in 513 - for them to kill her a couple episodes later. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Next subject ?...

So Mayor Queen is dumb enough to think that the circumstances surrounding Billy's death will prevent the ACU/SCPD from thinking Green Arrow is a murderer?  

We thought it might be the reporter or Chase turning on Oliver..nah, it's just Oliver being dumb.

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

We thought it might be the reporter or Chase turning on Oliver..nah, it's just Oliver being dumb.

Yeah, legally it would be murder. It's transferred intent...if I intend to kill Person A but hit and kill Person B instead, that's still an intentional killing, aka murder. (And self-defense has to be a right here/right now situation...you can't preemptively kill someone you think will harm someone in the future. You also generally can't start it and then claim self-defense, unless you live in Florida, and even then you have to be somewhere you're legally allowed, aka not warehouses you're technically trespassing in or someone else's house or whatever.)

LOL @ me with actual legal stuff, though.

[Midnight Lullaby]

13 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yeah, legally it would be murder. It's transferred intent...if I intend to kill Person A but hit and kill Person B instead, that's still an intentional killing, aka murder. (And self-defense has to be a right here/right now situation...you can't preemptively kill someone you think will harm someone in the future. You also generally can't start it and then claim self-defense, unless you live in Florida, and even then you have to be somewhere you're legally allowed, aka not warehouses you're technically trespassing in or someone else's house or whatever.)

LOL @ me with actual legal stuff, though.

Even if he killed Prometheus it would be murder. The GA looks worse because he killed a cop but killing anyone not in self defense is still illegal, LOL.

[AyChihuahua]

23 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Even if he killed Prometheus it would be murder. The GA looks worse because he killed a cop but killing anyone not in self defense is still illegal, LOL.

Yeah, I was more getting into the fact that him being cool with people finding out he killed the cop, bc he was tricked into killing the cop when he thought he was killing Prometheus, is in no way a valid legal argument.

[statsgirl]

It's a idiot argument. This is not season 1 Oliver, it's pre-flashbacks Oliver.

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Okay, here's my wild conspiracy theory of the day...

Doris Chase and Dinah Drake are sisters. Or, better yet (since Dinah is a comics character), Doris Chase and Susan Williams are sisters. They, along with Adrian Chase, are all part of the conspiracy to take down the Green Arrow.

I swear, the new brunettes on the show this season all look similar enough to be related.

Doris Chase (Parveen Dosanjh):

I was thinking that the casting is just stuck in a groove but this a much better idea.  Finally, something that makes Susan make sense.

[insomniadreams88]

No matter how this whole ACU going after GA for killing Billy ends, it's going to be a mess, in part because the show didn't care enough about Billy when he was alive to tell us anything except he was a detective and Felicity's "boyfr-[choking on the word]." Unless it's brought up by someone else, it seems like everyone's forgotten it happened.

Plus, the ACU has been pretty much MIA for most of the season and now suddenly, bam, they're back. Did they really bond with Billy in the, what, 4 episodes he was part of the task force, enough so that they think that arresting GA for his murder is a great idea? It's really a question of what the ACU knows about Billy's murder. If they found out GA's arrows killed him, do they not know Billy was dressed as Prometheus? But why not? Why would they know about the arrows and not the suit? Could none of them have put together the pieces and figured out, "Hey, GA must've been tricked"? Or do they just not care? 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Next subject ?...

So Mayor Queen is dumb enough to think that the circumstances surrounding Billy's death will prevent the ACU/SCPD from thinking Green Arrow is a murderer?  

 

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

We thought it might be the reporter or Chase turning on Oliver..nah, it's just Oliver being dumb.

Is this coming from a spoiler or just spec based on the episode? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

Is this coming from a spoiler or just spec based on the episode? 

Speculation based on Oliver telling Chase he doesn't want him to cover up Billy's murder anymore.

[Sunshine]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

Is this coming from a spoiler or just spec based on the episode? 

In 5.13 Chase tells Oliver he needs to get his girlfriend to back off.  Oliver said 2 things. 1. He didn't want to take advantage of his personal relationship and 2. He was uncomfortable covering up the circumstances of Billy's death.  This lead me to my conclusion.  I guess you could also say reporter's investigation causes it by default.

Short answer: speculation.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

Maybe the ACU is desperate for a win at last.  Because it seems to me they've done b-all up to now.  They're like the Keystone Cops, bumbling around. and with the Green Arrow, they can finally get a win.

Words cannot express how little excitement I have to the rest of the season. The only thing to look forward to is Felicity's Dark Arc now that Diggle is done his army/Andy story, and the knowledge that Susan will be around till May and we're probably stuck with Rene and Tinah forever is depressing.

I wish Ray were back and it was still season 3.

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

In 5.13 Chase tells Oliver he needs to get his girlfriend to back off.  Oliver said 2 things. 1. He didn't want to take advantage of his personal relationship and 2. He was uncomfortable covering up the circumstances of Billy's death.  This lead me to my conclusion.  I guess you could also say reporter's investigation causes it by default.

Short answer: speculation.

I haven't watched the episode, but I'm assuming it didn't occur to Oliver that Reporter digging around puts his cohorts secrets at risk as well?

Oliver is killing me this season.

[Cleanqueen]

Oliver needs to see a doctor. I think he is suffering from a concussion with all those bangs to the head he has received over the years. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I haven't watched the episode, but I'm assuming it didn't occur to Oliver that Reporter digging around puts his cohorts secrets at risk as well?

Oliver is killing me this season.

It doesn't even seem to occur to him that he might put himself in danger. In the promo he is mad he is unable to do anything because the ACU is after him but what did he think was going to happen?

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It doesn't even seem to occur to him that he might put himself in danger. In the promo he is mad he is unable to do anything because the ACU is after him but what did he think was going to happen?

Right? Chase literally told him what he needed to do to protect himself and he was like, "No and no." 

Such a pretty, pretty moron.

[statsgirl]

31 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

In 5.13 Chase tells Oliver he needs to get his girlfriend to back off.  Oliver said 2 things. 1. He didn't want to take advantage of his personal relationship and 2. He was uncomfortable covering up the circumstances of Billy's death.  This lead me to my conclusion.  I guess you could also say reporter's investigation causes it by default.

Does anyone on the show understand the meaning of irony?  Because all Susan is doing is taking advantage of her person relationship with Oliver.

[LadyChaos]

17 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Oliver needs to see a doctor. I think he is suffering from a concussion with all those bangs to the head he has received over the years. 

Clearly permanent brain damage 

[ladylaw99]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Right? Chase literally told him what he needed to do to protect himself and he was like, "No and no." 

Such a pretty, pretty moron.

Your forgetting he won't listen until it is required for plot and we as viewers witness him making the same, stupid mistake a thousand times.

Forget about chatty Cathy, at this point  "moron" should be his new code name.

[insomniadreams88]

I can't help but wonder how Susan still has a job. Thea said that people are talking about Oliver's relationship with her, so her boss should have heard about it. Shouldn't her producer have fired her for dating the mayor she's supposed to be reporting on? Especially since she's missing the big events like the press conference after a shooting at City Hall? 

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, Tazmania said:

Thea might have been a brat in the past but her Suzy Snoozefest hate is delicious. She is also very pretty to look at. 

 

 

By the way, just caught the promo for next ep ... not a single sign of Felicity 

I suppose that if 5x15 is a Felicity heavy episode the next one will be light on Felicity. Just another typical back half of Arrow.  

[Belinea]

Is the break after 5x15 or after 5x16 this year?

[Morrigan2575]

After 515

[Belinea]

Hopefully they leave the audience with something that makes them want to return after the break. 

[LadyChaos]

I wonder if they will do to Olicity again, what they did in s3...... Raylicity breaks up and Olicity sleeps together in the same ep......  Reportiver breaks up and Olicity is reunited in the same episode?

[Cleanqueen]

So if the team finds out about Susan next week, is Oliver not informed and that's why he continues to date her. 

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I wonder if they will do to Olicity again, what they did in s3...... Raylicity breaks up and Olicity sleeps together in the same ep......  Reportiver breaks up and Olicity is reunited in the same episode?

That's what I'm guessing will happen.

[Cleanqueen]

I do not want Oliver breaking up with Reporter and him going to Felicity in the same episode. He needs at least 20 showers before he goes to Felicity 

[LadyChaos]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That's what I'm guessing will happen.

Or...I'm betting their emotions will get the better of them, and they have one night stand which make FS wonder if she is ready to get back together with Oliver.  I've always assumed the trope they would pull would be that Oliver would get tired of waiting for her to decide what she wanted, and move on right as she figured out she was ready, only for her to have to wait for him then..... who wants to place bets on the s6 Olicity cockblock scenario...

[AyChihuahua]

18 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I wonder if they will do to Olicity again, what they did in s3...... Raylicity breaks up and Olicity sleeps together in the same ep......  Reportiver breaks up and Olicity is reunited in the same episode?

Do you mean in 515 or just sometime this season?