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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

She is pushing it. After her reaction to those newbie poll results, it makes me laugh. Like a toddler digging their heels in.

TBH .... I think back in s2-3 they still were planning for a 5 season arc, thinking that was as far as arrow would go.... imho I don't think they ever thought it would go longer than that....but once that walked into s5 w/ their highest ratings they knew they were cake for at least til s7 when SA contract was up. So they are now doing whatever they want instead of what will get them viewers.

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Now that I've read the TVGuide interview... 

Quote

Oliver doesn't know that his girlfriend is on to him. How is that going to play into their future?
Guggenheim: I'll just say, based upon what little -- I try to avoid online, but it's online, so it's impossible to completely avoid stuff -- but it seems like the general prevailing theories about how we're going to play that subplot off are wrong. That's kind of my impression. Everyone's expecting something we're not doing, for better or for worse.

Are "the general prevailing theories" that she's not going to betray him? 

Quote

Did you know who Prometheus was when you started the season? Has that identity changed at all?
Guggenheim: Yes, we knew from the beginning. No, it hasn't changed. I think I've said this in a bunch of different ways over the last five years, but we always go in with a plan. We do tend to call audibles as we get inspired and get new ideas. A year is a long time. But general speaking, something that major, like the mystery of the identity of the Big Bad, we're pretty dialed into it from jump.

What does it say that this is a very valid question? (Nothing good.)

Quote

How deep is Felicity going to get into [the hacking and darkness]?
Mericle: We really started the season wanting to have her go through some version of her own island in some way. I would say it's going to get very interesting, and the team, they're definitely going to have very strong opinions about it. We really wanted to take her to a place where she would sort of understand Oliver in a more profound way. Without giving too much away, that's what I would say about her and Helix.

First of all, why is this Q so far down in this interview? It shouldn't have taken that long to ask about Felicity. They asked about Evelyn before Felicity. Evelyn. 

I feel like Felicity's going to have to something else than what we've seen so far to warrant any "very strong opinions" about what she's doing. And I really hope that this whole "understand Oliver in a more profound way" does not lead to her apologizing to him when he still owes her an apology from last year. (I'm not going to forget about that, show. So maybe you should do something about that.)

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MaisyDaisy

MaisyDaisy

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Are "the general prevailing theories" that she's not going to betray him? 

I think they are that she is shady and going to play him- even CP tweeted about her being perceived as shady. Which means that she isn't. *sigh* I think she is going to redeem herself, or was somehow good all along, in a 'gotcha' twist, that will be horribly written.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, MaisyDaisy said:

I think they are that she is shady and going to play him- even CP tweeted about her being perceived as shady. Which means that she isn't. *sigh* I think she is going to redeem herself, or was somehow good all along, in a 'gotcha' twist, that will be horribly written.

But ... that's not a theory. That's what the show is telling us is a fact? Showing us that she's digging into Oliver even after sleeping with him. Wow, this is going to be even more awful than I thought, isn't it? 

The more I hear about Susan, the more I want Thea to completely take her down in such a way that would make Moira Queen proud and a bit scared herself. 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

If I had to guess, the long term hope/plan for S6 is probably for the show to revolve around GA/BC/Wild Dog (substituting for Arsenal since he's already been used to fulfill DC's comic canon.  I don't know if that means they drop two more regulars (DR, WH, PB or EBR) or if they negotiate reduced appearances for their contracts. (I don't really know how all this works so I could be way off.  If you are contracted for 23 appearances can the show actually write you in less but you have to be available for all?)   I think Vigilante is gone in maybe 5.15/5.16.  He's been acting as the police liaison so Tinah will probably take that role over.  I'm not sure about EK.  Curtis is just coming into his own so it seems strange they would get rid of him so soon.

This season seems to be more about decisions by TPTB above the showrunners.  If they are hoping to get 7 seasons out or Arrow the last is often what's remembered. Switching it to be more like the comics appears to be going on IMO.  No idea at this point if it will be true of the romance or not.

I'm usually wrong 99.99% of the time but I am concerned this time I might be right. 

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weathered1

weathered1

(edited)
4 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

I think they are that she is shady and going to play him- even CP tweeted about her being perceived as shady. Which means that she isn't. *sigh* I think she is going to redeem herself, or was somehow good all along, in a 'gotcha' twist, that will be horribly written.

I think that's where it's headed. I think it originally was not going to go that way, but it is now. What's weird about the whole thing is that they are *showing* us that she's still shady and acting ways that are suspect, to say the least. Meanwhile, they are telling us that we're not seeing what they're deliberately making sure we see. To which I say . . . WinTactualF?

The next problem (and there are sooooo many of them) is how and when are they getting rid of her. 

Edited by weathered1
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

The trouble is, Susan being good all along and not betraying Oliver because feelings has literally no narrative purpose. What's the point? What does it add to the story and to Oliver? I just don't get it. 

I don't know why I'm asking these kinds of questions when this is Arrow we're talking about here. Haha. 

Edited by Guest
calliope1975

calliope1975

I think MG thinks everyone thinks Sues is shady, but we will be shocked, shocked I say, to find out that she isn't. Except, as @apinknightmare stated, SA said that months ago. The other problem is they've written themselves into a corner because however it turns out, their hero looks like a moron. I've seen that comment in a few different places from different sets of fans so it's not just Olicity fans getting that impression either. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Maybe the big surprise is going to be that Susan doesn't expose Oliver ... but does expose someone else because of her research into him? And Oliver tries to intervene as mayor (because they love Oliver as mayor right now even though he's doing an awful job), but can't? I don't know. I have no idea where this storyline is going and I just want it over. 

Sunshine

Sunshine

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Now that I've read the TVGuide interview... 

Are "the general prevailing theories" that she's not going to betray him? 

 

Most of the ones I have seen think she IS going to expose him in spite of SA saying she's not Isabel 2.0.  This just seems like more confirmation that she's not going to betray him.  If she's involved in him being exposed I would think it would be in conjunction with him outing himself.  I don't think it was a coincidence that Oliver was telling Thea "She's a good reporter. She's a good person."  

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Trisha

Trisha

8 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Nah sorry the triangle will be Diggle/Dinah/Lance.

It's hilarious that the IGN review actually pointed out the Dinah/Dig vibes in this episode and wondered if she was going to cause problems with him and Lyla. I doubt it - mostly because the actress who plays Lyla isn't really around enough for that storyline to work. But how weird would it be if everyone's worried that she'll get in the way of Olicity in S6, and it's actually a whole other triangle? 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So, since no one bothered to remember Felicity was shot and paralyzed this week, do you think they'll remember Billy was Felicity's BF next week or will it be all about the cop Oliver was tricked into killing? 

Some cop, his name was........Buddy? I think one of us may have met him once or something?

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MaisyDaisy

MaisyDaisy

I am nervous that they are going to have Thea go all Moira (which will be sooooooo good) on Susan, only for Susan to be proven a 'good reporter, a decent person and someone that Oliver is serious about and 'all in' with. My worry is that Oliver will be justified in his stupidity, while Thea has to be all 'mea culpa' towards them. It would just feel like another slap in the face for the writing of female characters.

We already have male gaze Dinah playing up the smolder in every scene. We have muted Felicity. We don't need a chastised Thea who was rightfully (going by what was 'shown' on the show) against Susan, being wrong for being assertive, because the lesser character (Susan) needs to be ultimately innocent to make Oliver look good.

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weathered1

weathered1

I wonder - and I hate that I wonder this, because I think Willa has done some good work with the role, which is not something I ever thought I'd say when the show first started - if they have Thea go all Moira when it comes to Susan, if it winds up not only making Oliver look good (though it really, really won't), but if it impacts their sibling bond so much that she ends up leaving town or something. They do need to streamline the cast, and that might be one way they go about it. I'd really and truly hate that, though. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past them.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Poor Billy.  I'll remember you even if everyone on the show has forgot.

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

If I had to guess, the long term hope/plan for S6 is probably for the show to revolve around GA/BC/Wild Dog (substituting for Arsenal since he's already been used to fulfill DC's comic canon.  I don't know if that means they drop two more regulars (DR, WH, PB or EBR) or if they negotiate reduced appearances for their contracts. (I don't really know how all this works so I could be way off.  If you are contracted for 23 appearances can the show actually write you in less but you have to be available for all?)   I think Vigilante is gone in maybe 5.15/5.16.  He's been acting as the police liaison so Tinah will probably take that role over.  I'm not sure about EK.  Curtis is just coming into his own so it seems strange they would get rid of him so soon.

This season seems to be more about decisions by TPTB above the showrunners.  If they are hoping to get 7 seasons out or Arrow the last is often what's remembered. Switching it to be more like the comics appears to be going on IMO.  No idea at this point if it will be true of the romance or not.

The only new characters I've liked this season are Rory and Chase (sorry, Curtis).  Rory is already gone and I'm pretty sure Chase will be after this season too.  Tinah will be the police liaison because I don't see either Rene or Tina going anywhere.

Writing 101 is that contrasting characters make things more interesting.  GA/BC/WB are all basically the same type of person, muscle, fighting, lost a loved on through tragedy.  A show around them would be Zzzzzzzzzz

1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

I think MG thinks everyone thinks Sues is shady, but we will be shocked, shocked I say, to find out that she isn't. Except, as @apinknightmare stated, SA said that months ago. The other problem is they've written themselves into a corner because however it turns out, their hero looks like a moron. I've seen that comment in a few different places from different sets of fans so it's not just Olicity fans getting that impression either. 

The harder MG pushes that we're all going to be amazed, the more I think it's going to end up with the lamest resolution, that Susan was investigating but realizes that he's really a good guy through his magic penis and ends up saving him, thus making it the most pointless arc ever and a complete waste of time.

calliope1975

calliope1975

29 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

I wonder - and I hate that I wonder this, because I think Willa has done some good work with the role, which is not something I ever thought I'd say when the show first started - if they have Thea go all Moira when it comes to Susan, if it winds up not only making Oliver look good (though it really, really won't), but if it impacts their sibling bond so much that she ends up leaving town or something. They do need to streamline the cast, and that might be one way they go about it. I'd really and truly hate that, though. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past them.

I was thinking the same thing. Thea will be wrong about the Rayporter and have to leave to reevaluate her life or whatever. Whether it's due to the noobs, backstage shenanigans, or other, I won't like it if this happens. 

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weathered1

weathered1

(edited)

^^ I have to reiterate that I would *really* hate it - like flames, flames on the side of my face hate it - if they use the freakin' reporter as an excuse to write Thea off permanently or even if it's just for x amount of episodes (assuming Willa still has a job next season and the episode count remains at 14). 

I've even had the thought that Thea - in full Moira mode - does something to make the reporter feel like Oliver betrayed her, instead of the other way around, only for it to be revealed that, oh no, the reporter was really a good person because of her precious feelings for Oliver, and Thea attacked her maliciously, thereby costing Oliver his oh so "serious," "all in" relationship. 

I can see it now: reporter collects info but decides not to use it. Comes clean about her plan and then her all important feelings. Says she can't publish anything that would hurt him. Thea secretly records the convo, which reveals that the reporter has zero credibility or journalistic ethics and sends said recording to the publisher. Publisher confronts and fires the reporter. Reporter, thinking Oliver is the only one knew the truth, lashes out at him, ends the "all in" relationship, and leaves town to find work elsewhere. Oliver realizes someone recorded the convo, eventually puts 2 and 2 together (which is about all the math his poor little brain can handle), says nasty things to his sister. And a guilt-stricken Thea leaves the city, while poor, poor Oliver - who wasn't wrong to trust the reporter, after all! - is sad and alone. 

If anything even remotely resembling that happens . . . gag me with a spork.

I've just run out of words to describe how much I absolutely loathe the reporter and the entire ridiculously asinine story. 

Edited by weathered1
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Watching the extended promo for 5x14 and idk. Jail break looks good and it's nice that Oliver is going to have to remember Mayo but the highlight on Tinah in the preview and the knowledge that she gets her costume in this one makes me think it's more focused on her then the synopsis suggests. 

I have this image of her and Lance cop bonding over Lady Cop, Felicity giving her  the costume, Oliver asking her to care for the city well he plays Mayor, big damn hero moment opposite the woman, etc.

I would love for Felicity to get some focus with ACA and Oliver, but I'm wondering if 5x15 is a Felicity episode and she chills in the back providing comm support to Tinah and WD.

Edited by Chaser
theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Boo!  

I can see how dabbling on the darkside and having to fight her impulses to give in to it could help her understand how Oliver has to fight his worse impulses but I can't see how that can teach her anything about why Oliver would hide a kid from his fiance.  

It's about the lie. I think like Stephen teased she will hide something from him, something others are gonna be aware of like he hid something from her that others knew about. Only difference is that they are not together anymore and hiding the existence of a kid is ten times worse . I don't expect the writers to care though. I have been getting feelings that they will have her be in his "shoes" in order to understand his position last season. And that's only because they refuse to have him apologize and actually try to earn her back. They clearly refuse to acknowledge oliver was an asshole and stupid for lying to her so instead they have felicity be more understanding of him as if she has to learn a lesson . 

Edited by theOAfc
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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

What if, the good reporter good person Susan, through her research conveniently finds something on Felicity which outs her as working with Helix?

How might Oliver take that? 

Maybe, she does it bc she finds evidence of Felicity going to Russia with him and suspects Felicity works with him for Green Arrow stuff.

Maybe, after they are fighting in that limo..... and they attacked but fine but not before Oliver accidentally says he is still in love with Felicity.

Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

I hope not because I could see Oliver saying the reporter was just doing her job and Felicity shouldn't have started working with Helix and put herself in danger. And it's ironic because to be fair what Felicity is doing is illegal but I would never choose the reporter's side because she showed to have no ethics whatsoever and Felicity is doing what she is doing to help people, not to advance her own career.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I am so super uncomfortable with this possibility that whatever OLIVER thinks about what Felicity's doing re: Helix/Pandora is gonna be the ~moral parameter~ for her story. And it looks like this is what they're setting up too, that Oliver's opinion here is the one that will matter. Yuck.

Edited by dtissagirl
  • Love 22
Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)
3 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Sigh, why can't they bring back Helena for a change? As much as she was hated online, she managed to lure viewers in front of the telly and I always found her hella entertaining. Nobody wants to watch Cupid. She's one of the most cringe-worthy characters ever. 

Because the actress is busy i would guess. Sorry but Cupid is awesome. 

Edited by Velocity23
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LeighAn

LeighAn

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

The harder MG pushes that we're all going to be amazed, the more I think it's going to end up with the lamest resolution, that Susan was investigating but realizes that he's really a good guy through his magic penis and ends up saving him, thus making it the most pointless arc ever and a complete waste of time.

Or basically EVERY Olicity cockblocking stall relationship ever on the show. The hookup with Isabel was pointless, Ray was pointless in the grand scheme of things Billy was pointless, and Susan is ultimately going to prove to be pointless.

She is basically away to kill time while they wait to put Olicity. And with the unfortunate side effect of making Oliver look like a total moron.

  • Love 1
Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

Sigh.  The TVGuide article ends with WM saying "Without giving too much away, that's what I would say about her and Helix."  I'm starting to think this storyline is much ado about nothing, similar to the Felicity has a boyfriend storyline. 

Oliver gets serious with the reporter.  <eye roll> "She's a good reporter. She's a good person."  I can only see one reason for this heavy handed writing (other than it's how they write.) At the end of 5 years Oliver is outing himself (or has been outed by Prometheus) and she is writing the (flashback) story of how/why  Oliver Queen became the Green Arrow.  He's only telling that story to someone he trusts.  

They could pull a S2 ending again with Prometheus in Slade's role but that doesn't explain the investigation.  It would however provide her with a reason to move on assuming same outcome.  

The only way the story makes sense is for us to look back on the season after 5.23 and go okay brilliant storytelling. rofl 

Edited by Sunshine
LeighAn

LeighAn

Also as much as I hate Susan the longer she's around the more and more unlikely there will be a  Oliver/Tinah lunge/hookup/truwuvforeva So I can deal with her in 5x18. It feels very much like another Ray redux so I would not be surprised if they have her and Oliver break up in 5x19-5x20 in the same episode as he reunites with Felicity.

Ray was a total douche bag to Felicity, he came across as a stalker and borderline harasser at the start of season 3 and then basically used Felicitys skills for his own personal gain, stole her technology for his suit with out her knowledge, came across as insecure and jealous of her intelligence over his own, very rarely gave her credit for her part in designing his suit, acted like a total dick to her when finding out about Oliver being the Green Arrow even though he expected her to keep his vigilante secrets and then let her apologise for her behaviour without apologising for his own. And yet Felicity still talked him up like he was the greatest.

I honestly think Susan is Ray for Oliver. Much like how Felicity pursuing a relationship with Ray was very reactionary to her relationship or lack there of with Oliver I think to a much much lesser extent Oliver pursuing a relationship with Susan is very reactionary to Felicity and his belief that he's lost the chance to be with her again because she's moved on and her avoidance of opening up to him in a real way leads him to believe she doesn't need him. At least that my head canon.

And I can only hope once Felicity does  need him and opens herself up to him that it will cause his illusion of happiness with Susan to come undone. So even if she doesn't betray him entirely the fact that there is a lack of truth/trust in their relationship and the fact that she's simply not Felicity will be Susans undoing.

17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm frustrated by MGs comments on Reporter because if the audience is wrong about her screwing Oliver over it's not the audience coming up with crazy theories its the audience following their narrative. 

You don't get to pat yourself on the back if you reveal this duck to be a chicken.

The only way I can justify it is it's the Ray thing. They made him shady as hell too but talked him up as a great bang up guy. I think it's like they want the audience to know Oliver and Felicity aren't meant to be with these people but also need people to believe it's possible Oliver and Felicity could end up with these people to raise the stakes on whether Oliver and Felicity will get back together.

That or they just really suck.

  • Love 6
Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

There are a lot of prevailing theories that she is working for Prometheus or that she is Prometheus and also using that tattoo(that's now been proven to be a cover up) as an example. I think that is perhaps what MG is referring to. He doesn't seem to know much about the online audience considering he's still making oliver look stupid.

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I saw spec in the AV Club comments that Oliver is ultimately going to give Susie a Barbara Walters-style exclusive interview explaining how he became the Green Arrow.

Nonnnnnononono.plsno

Ugh, no. I don't want Susan rewarded in any way for her shadiness/digging into Oliver/paying off PIs to get information for her. Which makes me wonder - how much money do we think Susan's spending to get all this information on Oliver's past? 

Also, does anyone think anyone bothered to tell Felicity that Susan's doing a story on her BF's death? Both Oliver and Diggle know because they were then when she mentioned it to Chase, right? Then again, they probably forgot she was dating him since the show did the moment he was killed/once Oliver got together with Susan. 

  • Love 8
Sunshine

Sunshine

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I saw spec in the AV Club comments that Oliver is ultimately going to give Susie a Barbara Walters-style exclusive interview explaining how he became the Green Arrow.

Nonnnnnononono.plsno

It's the only thing that really makes sense.  The main focus has been on her investigation not the romance.  Of course, they could start highlighting that. We do have more sweeps episodes to get through.

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

It's the only thing that really makes sense.  The main focus has been on her investigation not the romance.  Of course, they could start highlighting that. We do have more sweeps episodes to get through.

Yeah. This actually makes some kinda sense to me (I mean, as much sense as this shitshow could make), and ugh. 

  • Love 2
Tazmania

Tazmania

2 hours ago, strikera0 said:

Sigh, why can't they bring back Helena for a change? As much as she was hated online, she managed to lure viewers in front of the telly and I always found her hella entertaining. 

That's because the actress playing Helena has moved onto better things, like Underground, where she plays an abolitionist. 

  • Love 2
Guest
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