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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Since Chase is the only one who knew that Green Arrow killed Billy, I'm guessing Susie is going to wind up talking to him when she's researching her piece on the Mayo Murder. What if Susie's article doesn't wind up outing Green Arrow/Oliver, but her investigation does? Like, she either purposely mentions Oliver being Green Arrow to Chase, or inadvertently gives him the clues that allow him to put that together. Then Chase - who said he destroyed (or hid, I can't remember) the Mayo Murder evidence not only sics the cops on Green Arrow, but (possibly because they haven't caught him in 14) then goes after Oliver as mayor the next ep. 

There are plot holes, like, why would Chase have the cops go after Green Arrow when he could just out Oliver and be done with it. And this, of course, wouldn't really make Susie fully shady...so...IDK. Just trying to figure it out. 

Edited by apinknightmare
Sunshine

Sunshine

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Don't even suggest such a thing. I don't think I'd be able to watch it. 

Sorry.  It was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the photos.  The good news is I'm wrong 99.99% of the time.  

I also can hear EBR saying in an interview something about having to grow apart before they can grow together.     

way2interested

way2interested

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

There are plot holes, like, why would Chase have the cops go after Green Arrow when he could just out Oliver and be done with it. And this, of course, wouldn't really make Susie fully shady...so...IDK. Just trying to figure it out. 

I'm thinking it might go down the way you think, but I'm wondering if there might be another Vigilante sighting in 513/514 that sets the plot up for 515. Maybe something in 513 explains why he would sic the cops as extra manpower for getting the GA (maybe the whole possible mass shooting convinces Chase and Oliver to be harder on weapon crimes, including the GA for Chase?), and then he finds out that Oliver is the GA in 514 (maybe then something Susan does/says makes Chase realize it?). 

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
20 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm thinking it might go down the way you think, but I'm wondering if there might be another Vigilante sighting in 513/514 that sets the plot up for 515. Maybe something in 513 explains why he would sic the cops as extra manpower for getting the GA (maybe the whole possible mass shooting convinces Chase and Oliver to be harder on weapon crimes, including the GA for Chase?), and then he finds out that Oliver is the GA in 514 (maybe then something Susan does/says makes Chase realize it?). 

I guess it could have something to do with the shooting and Oliver's stance on guns (considering it seems like he says his office's position on gun control is 'complicated' in the preview - if that's not a creative cut). But then why he'd go after Green Arrow first instead of Oliver is kinda a mystery. Unless it's because it seems like based on the description that Green Arrow doesn't do anything the attack at all. I suppose Chase would see both Oliver and Green Arrow as useless in that case? Maybe someone close to Chase gets hurt in the attack so that makes it extra personal, so he decides to go after Oliver on both fronts? 

*this is assuming Chase actually IS Vigilante at this point.

Edited by apinknightmare
Sunshine

Sunshine

On IMDb, Doris Chase is listed as being in both 5.13 and 5.15.  There is a young girl, Zoe, who is listed in 5.13.  Maybe Adrian's wife and child are there and the daughter dies?

If Green Arrow doesn't show up during the attack, Chase might sick the police on GA.  When we first met Chase he thought the guys in masks were the bad guys.  Susan inadvertantly reveals a OQ/GA connection so he targets OQ in 5.15?

They said Diggle would be growing closer to Adrian.  Does going after Vigilante (assuming he is Chase) qualify? :-)

If Chase is Vigilante does this mean his story is over in 15 or 16?  He's a regular is why I am curious.  As Segarra goes out (15 or 16) Barrowman comes in (17)?

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, Sunshine said:

If Chase is Vigilante does this mean his story is over in 15 or 16?  He's a regular is why I am curious.  As Segarra goes out (15 or 16) Barrowman comes in (17)?

Maybe Oliver inspires him to find another way?!!!1! There's still an extra chair or two at the bunker's conference room table. He can join the team too.

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bijoux

bijoux

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The rest of DR's interview is worth reading as well...

Arrow's David Ramsey Talks S5, The Diggles, Team Arrow and more!
By Prutha S. Patel  February 8, 2017
https://www.watchtivist.com/all-interviews/arrowdrs5

This interview really makes me feel like he isn't paying that much attention to the show this year.

Quote

[Dinah]’s just been through a major trauma of having lost her lover/partner, she’s been tortured by a new meta. 

Sure, if three years ago is just. Fair enough, he could have skipped the part of the script that introduced Tinah, but if Dig is supposed to roll out the welcome mat, wouldn't that come up in conversation? Like, I know you've been hopping from one place to the next hoping to avenge your lovah for the past three years, but you need to focus on something else now?

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bijoux

bijoux

This is an interesting theory.

Quote

I’m not a comics person so someone more informed than me can let me know if this is accurate… 

When MG said they would be following the Vigilante storyline as it’s told in the comics, I did a quick search. And from what I remember Chase’s family or fiance/wife was killed by Bratva (I have no memory of the circumstances). So… I’m wondering if we “meet” his wife in upcoming flashbacks and discover she was killed by Bratva operating in Starling at the time. And in present day either Susan releases the information she has on Oliver *or* Adrian overhears her asking Oliver about the information she has gathered. And that would lead to Vigilante targeting Oliver as Mayor Queen in the 5x15 synopsis.

Quote

Oh, this good.

I’ve been wondering why Vigilante would go after Oliver Queen (Mayor), and this could be why. I just skimmed over some info on him, and his family was killed by the mafia in NY. I think, if this is what happens on the show, they will simply change it to Starling/Star City and the Bratva

Source

The Vigilante has said that he lost someone and his wife being in the Russia flashbacks would explain how she's there in two separate episodes. 513 and 515 if I remeber correctly and IMDb is right.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I don't think the police is connected to Chase, really. He was the one who advocated keeping the circumstances of Billy's death under wraps and he understood straight away that GA was duped. 

He did, but as far as we know Chase is the only one who had evidence of Green Arrow killing Billy. He's the only dot connector that we know of so far, so I just figured that somehow he'd be the one to connect those dots for her. I suppose Prometheus could randomly leave proof for her to find, but going after Oliver hasn't really been his MO so far, unless he's looking to destroy Oliver's relationship with Susan, which...LOL. I guess she could get to one of the cops on the scene or the coroner that Chase said he was "taking care of." 

Last ep showed that Chase doesn't seem to trust Susie all that much so he'd probably be reluctant to help her out with any investigation unless there was some mutually beneficial information shared. 

It would make sense if Chase went after Oliver after finding out he was Bratva if something tragic happened to his family because of them - it would also fit the vengeance-because-of-the-death-of-a-loved-one MO this show loves so well. And would also be one hell of a coincidence, and this show loves those too!

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

So does anyone think they'll actually address finding a new location for a lair in a future episode? Because no one from the team has suggested that, right? Even though Prometheus obviously knows where it is and the security is clearly a joke. I'm pretty much waiting for them to find him chilling out at the conference table or doing the salmon ladder. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

20 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Unless Artemis gets a Verbal or Physical Smackdown on how much of an idiot and a hypocrite she is for throwing in with Prometheus I don't care about her redemption. But Given Madison's stupid defending of her characters Hypocrisy I don't know 

Wait, so you want someone on Team Arrow to hit a teenage girl?

statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

The whole Artemis storyline should be on L&O: SVU instead of Arrow.  First her parents were in a cult, and then they died and she was left alone when she was 17 to play with dangerous toys.  Did no one from Child Services notice that she didn't have any adults around?  Where was she living?  How was she living?  How did she get out of being in school?  I have little sympathy for Evelyn but some adult somewhere should have noticed her existence and got her a stable environment.  Hey, how about the new mayor?  Or his unemployed night time tech person?  It's such a badly written arc played entirely For Plot and Gotcha.

On 2017-02-11 at 9:29 AM, bijoux said:

This interview really makes me feel like he isn't paying that much attention to the show this year.

Sure, if three years ago is just. Fair enough, he could have skipped the part of the script that introduced Tinah, but if Dig is supposed to roll out the welcome mat, wouldn't that come up in conversation? Like, I know you've been hopping from one place to the next hoping to avenge your lovah for the past three years, but you need to focus on something else now?

The part that bugged me is that he said that only Oliver knew that Sara had been switched to a boy.  Hey, what about Felicity?  While I completely understand not paying attention to the mess that is this season, it is his job after all.

Now that I've had Diggle/Rene and Lance/Rene bonding, I'm really not looking forward to Diggle/Tinah bonding at all.  Stop trying to force the n00bs to happen, show.

Edited by statsgirl
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Re Steve's FB comment in Spoilers, I didn't read it the way the tweeter did at all. If he's playing her and knows she's bad, he'd still be wrong to "trust" her, which is the word he used.

I really think it's going to be a magic penis situation. He won't have been wrong to trust her, in Steve's mind, bc it'll turn out fine. (Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's still stupid to trust her and it turning out okay doesn't change that, but Steve's not the most...analytical...thinker.)

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

2 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Re Steve's FB comment in Spoilers, I didn't read it the way the tweeter did at all. If he's playing her and knows she's bad, he'd still be wrong to "trust" her, which is the word he used.

I really think it's going to be a magic penis situation. He won't have been wrong to trust her, in Steve's mind, bc it'll turn out fine. (Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's still stupid to trust her and it turning out okay doesn't change that, but Steve's not the most...analytical...thinker.)

I really don't want this to happen. But it very well could. 

It's not just that Oliver's stupid to trust her. It doesn't look good that he's dating someone who screwed over his sister and now only went easy on Lance because of Rene, not proper research like a good reporter. And she got more information on Oliver after sleeping with him and thought that asking him about his past after the first time they slept together was okay? 

Even if this turns out "fine," how is it going to end? Is he going to keep dating her? Is she going to leave Star City? But what happened to how much she proclaimed to care about the city in, what, 505? Is he going to be "heartbroken" because they're trying to make these temp LIs seem like more than they are? 

There could have been so much potential in not making her a LI and instead a reporter looking for a story that perhaps Oliver and Thea took down together separate from GA business. Oliver wouldn't have looked like an idiot then. 

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Belinea

Belinea

Well, either she betrays him or she doesn't. He could be playing her but I highly doubt it or let's say, I'd actually be shocked if he played her and went all the way for it. 

Doesn't he have to focus more on being mayor and spend less time as GA because people want to arrest him. Therefore she would have had to publish the story.

If she betrays him, well, not surprised. If she doesn't betray him then they set up their emotional connection in a super weird way. I don't feel as though she is torn about investigating him at all. 

But, and this is very salty I know, I am somewhat happy about the fact that other people question Oliver's intelligence as well. Mainly because I do that all the time.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I think all Steve meant was that Evelyn was shown actively throwing in with Prometheus, and Susan hasn't actually thrown him to the wolves yet. Yet being the operative word.

I'd love for there to be a lesson for Oliver in this, but I think SA pretty much gave up the plot line early in in pre-defense of what he probably knew would make Oliver look like a moron - that she's just a reporter investigating an interesting story and isn't a bad person (and Oliver isn't wrong for trusting her, because she isn't ultimately going to betray him). Which makes her introduction all the more baffling, but this is Arrow, so plot (her being "shady") took precedence over character (Oliver not being a moron). 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

5 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But, and this is very salty I know, I am somewhat happy about the fact that other people question Oliver's intelligence as well. Mainly because I do that all the time.

Oliver should give daily thanks for the autonomic nervous system, bc without it I'm entirely sure his one remaining brain cell would be incapable of sending regular "breathe" commands.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Oh, I'm not arguing that the reply means that it won't unfold like that, just that this specific reply isn't intended to imply that it will. My point is just that Steve isn't giving spoilers here, just commenting on what has been shown so far. 

I get what you're saying, but, especially coupled with his earlier comment that it won't be an Isabel situation, I think he is obliquely referring to what's going to happen. 

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Chaser

Chaser

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'd love for there to be a lesson for Oliver in this, but I think SA pretty much gave up the plot line early in in pre-defense of what he probably knew would make Oliver look like a moron - that she's just a reporter investigating an interesting story and isn't a bad person (and Oliver isn't wrong for trusting her, because she isn't ultimately going to betray him). Which makes her introduction all the more baffling, but this is Arrow, so plot (her being "shady") took precedence over character (Oliver not being a  moron). 

IA. I do think she is somehow connected to the ACA going after GA, but she is going to go to Oliver and he is going ultimately going to forgive her cause feelings. They continue to date for a couple episode before she dumps him for some reason. 

In end we look back and wonder what the point was at all and the EPs talk about they should have done x y z differently. 

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

6 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Maybe verbal ONLY then, and not put physical violence from the heroes toward a 17 year old as second choice AT ALL?

A 17-year-old isn't the same as a 7-year-old.  If she escalates the encounter to include physical violence, does her intended target not have the right to retaliate in self-defense?  At what magic age WOULD it be appropriate -- 18?  28?  40?

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

Artemis is back and Madison is tweeting about loving Juliana.  The show is repeating story lines with different characters.  IF Artemis  is being redeemed does Dinah take her under her wing like Sarah did Sin?

Rory said in his final scene with Felicity that he would be back.  It might just be one of those things one says, but I wonder if he might come back somewhere in 5.21-5.23 with his rags operational ready for the Big take down.  Since this season's theme is legacyf he might make a reappearance. The only GA comics I read were the Nu52 when Felicity was in it.  It culminated in a huge team up to take down the Big Bad. 

So far Felicity's legacy is Havenrock.  IIRC, she/we are going to find out she had some role in establishing Helix later in 5B.  Are they going to turn it around somehow so it's an organization for good or have the EPs decided she should only leave behind dubious things?  She was a force for good in S1-S4 and helped multiple superheroes.  I just find it interesting/odd that she's having "her island" in a year where the theme is legacy.  What they are doing with her now seems similar to her backstory in the Nu52.  

Edited by Sunshine
way2interested

way2interested

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Artemis is back and Madison is tweeting about loving Juliana.  The show is repeating story lines with different characters.  IF Artemis  is being redeemed does Dinah take her under her wing like Sarah did Sin?

Rory said in his final scene with Felicity that he would be back.  It might just be one of those things one says, but I wonder if he might come back somewhere in 5.21-5.23 with his rags operational ready for the Big take down.  Since this season's theme is legacy if he might make a reappearance. The only GA comics I read were the Nu52 when Felicity was in it.  It culminated in a huge team up to take down the Big Bad. 

So far Felicity's legacy is Havenrock.  IIRC, she/we are going to find out she had some role in establishing Helix later in 5B.  Are they going to turn it around somehow so it's an organization for good or have the EPs decided she should only leave behind dubious things?  She was a force for good in S1-S4 and helped multiple superheroes.  I just find it interesting/odd that she's having "her island" in a year where the theme is legacy.  What they are doing with her now seems similar to her backstory in the Nu52.  

My friend had a crack theory at the beginning of the season and during the early portions of 5a that the season would end with the team taking down Prometheus while Oliver has to do something mayor related, thus having his good legacy (the people inspired by him) take down his bad legacy (Prometheus), while Oliver himself has to just rely on the trust that the good would overcome the bad (and somehow makes the ultimate kill shot). I didn't know about it at first because I didn't know how big a deal the newbies would be (and it was BC: Before Canary 3.0), but now I could see it with the new team. Like, all of the new pieces would come back to play (Evelyn, Tinah, Helix, Chase, the newbies) come the finale and help stop Prometheus maybe while Oliver takes down maybe Talia (if she's the real big bad) or faces the city (if this whole GA vs. the cops plot comes into play more).

Problem is I'm not sure where Felicity would fit in it exactly with that (my friend just believed that Diggle and Felicity would end up helping with whatever Oliver ends up doing- mayor stuff originally but maybe take down Talia if that ends up being what happens- while the newbies physically take down Prometheus), but I could see her ultimately using Helix in some good guy move to try to create some sort of good legacy to wrap the theme up for her.  

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

Rory said in his final scene with Felicity that he would be back.  It might just be one of those things one says, but I wonder if he might come back somewhere in 5.21-5.23 with his rags operational ready for the Big take down.

I have this feeling that the rags will never be back to full strength, but didn't Rory say after finding out about Felicity's role in Havenrock and he then came back to the team,  that they could let each other know when they were making a mistake or falling prey to the darkness (something like that).  Would they have him leave and then bring him back to be instrumental in reminding Felicity of her darkest moment so that she avoids continuing on a dark path?  

  • Love 1
Sunshine

Sunshine

45 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Don't they have to thin out the n00bs?  Without that it's Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Rene, Curtis, Dinah and maybe Rory and Thea.  Far too many in the lair, with Vigilante and Lance outside it.

I think IF Rory came back it might be a one or two episode thing and then gone.  I was just surprised they had him say he'd be back.  Might mean nothing.  In the comics they seem to love big team ups.   @BkWurm1 might be right and he comes back for Felicity's story as Rory only.  I wonder if Vigilante is gone sooner rather than later simply because of the description for 5.15 unless (assuming it's Chase) he's a redemption story for Oliver too.  

I would be fine with a Diggle and Oliver pull her back scenario too.  EPs said Curtis, Diggle, and Oliver all try to reach her.   Ultimately it's going to have to be her decision though similar to Diggle's in 5.12 IMO.  I'm just curious as to how and why that comes about.  What does it lead to - just a better understanding of Oliver or something else?       

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Starfish35

Starfish35

2 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Artemis is back and Madison is tweeting about loving Juliana.  The show is repeating story lines with different characters.  IF Artemis  is being redeemed does Dinah take her under her wing like Sarah did Sin?

Maybe?  I was looking on Wikipedia, and Evelyn Crawford (who went by Starling there) was apparently a member of the Birds of Prey for awhile.  

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