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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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If she's really just trying to get a story what's the point if she doesn't do an expose because feelings.

If her story is what makes the cops go after Oliver, then I guess that's her point. Although if she knows Oliver is or could be the Green Arrow and still publishes it then...feelings didn't stop her from doing a damn thing. 

Edited by apinknightmare
5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If her story is what makes the cops go after Oliver, then I guess that's her point. Although if she knows Oliver is or could be the Green Arrow and still publishes it then...feelings didn't stop her from doing a damn thing. 

Which is where I'm all confused there's a gap between showing and telling. Unless the answer is she writes the story but doesn't give it to her editor because feelings? The editor takes it off her hard drive or something? 

My real question is 15-16? IF her GA/Malone story is what sends the cops after GA AND Team Arrow finds out she Knows/suspects Oliver is GA then I just have no clue why she's still around for 2 episodes post reveal.

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My real question is 15-16? IF her GA/Malone story is what sends the cops after GA AND Team Arrow finds out she Knows/suspects Oliver is GA then I just have no clue why she's still around for 2 episodes post reveal.

Maybe Oliver forgives her because, you know, "feelings" and stupidity. But then he'll pull a "it's too dangerous for us to be together" because, again, "feelings." Honestly? I don't even care. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out she's in episodes beyond 16 because it's not like the writers are making smart decisions this year.  

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She is going to give him a sob a story and he is going to think if he was just honest with her she never would have said anything. Smh

I can only think the worst of this storyline. It's so bad.

Serious question, what is left for Diggle after this episode? I feel like they wrapped it up and based on DRs interviews, it looks like Diggle is just support for newbies.

Edited by Chaser
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(edited)
5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe Oliver forgives her because, you know, "feelings" and stupidity. But then he'll pull a "it's too dangerous for us to be together" because, again, "feelings." Honestly? I don't even care. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out she's in episodes beyond 16 because it's not like the writers are making smart decisions this year.  

I don't care about her relationship with Oliver because its not about them as a couple. Oliver/Susan and Felicity/Billy has been about plot and maybe Character motivation (at least in Felicity's case). I need to know what her plot purpose is. Billy's entire purpose was to die and set up Felicity's dark arc. What is Susan's purpose IF our suspicions for 14 are true? Is it to push Oliver to come out of the GA closet? Is it to remove Oliver from Mayor duty since the show seeks bored with it already? There's a plot reason for her existence and that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Also - why are they calling Dinah "Backstop" in the field? I mean the show gave away that they were looking for a new canary so it's not like that reveal is gonna be a surprise. Are they just incorporating everything right away EXCEPT the name for whatever idiot reason? Are they going to have a naming ceremony for her? Will someone crack a bottle of champagne over her ass when she puts on the costume for the first time? Makes no sense. 

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1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't care about her relationship with Oliver because its not about them as a couple. Oliver/Susan and Felicity/Billy has been about plot and maybe Character motivation (at least in Felicity's case). I need to know what her plot purpose is. Billy's entire purpose was to die and set up Felicity's dark arc. What is Susan's purpose IF our suspicions for 14 are true? Is it to push Oliver to come out of the GA closet? Is it to remove Oliver from Mayor duty since the show seeks bored with it already? There's a plot reason for her existence and that's what I'm trying to figure out.

I think Billy's purpose was for Oliver to be tricked into killing him. I'm not seeing anything from Felicity's arc that couldn't have happened if she hadn't been dating Billy. If Billy hadn't died, are we to believe that maybe she would have just used Pandora to free Diggle from prison? I don't see why that would be the case.

As for Susan, I don't even care what her purpose is at this point. I don't think Oliver's going to make an "I am the Green Arrow" announcement this season because I don't think the writers could do that storyline justice for at least an entire season. It seems more like something that would happen in the series finale (or one of the episodes leading up to the series finale).

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It could work if she was connected to Talia and the mark that she had on the arm had a meaning and it wasn't a make up failure. There would still be something to tell about her.

Or it doesn't get out that the GA killed Malone thanks to her article. Or Oliver thinks she doesn't suspect he is the GA and the team doesn't tell him what they found out about her at first. But I don't know how long they can keep him in the dark.

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think Billy's purpose was for Oliver to be tricked into killing him. I'm not seeing anything from Felicity's arc that couldn't have happened if she hadn't been dating Billy. If Billy hadn't died, are we to believe that maybe she would have just used Pandora to free Diggle from prison? I don't see why that would be the case.

As for Susan, I don't even care what her purpose is at this point. I don't think Oliver's going to make an "I am the Green Arrow" announcement this season because I don't think the writers could do that storyline justice for at least an entire season. It seems more like something that would happen in the series finale (or one of the episodes leading up to the series finale).

Felicity's arc could have been written without Billy, but the show chose to use Billy that way. Based on the EPs interviews, that was his purpose.

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22 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Which is where I'm all confused there's a gap between showing and telling. Unless the answer is she writes the story but doesn't give it to her editor because feelings? The editor takes it off her hard drive or something? 

If her story is what tips off the cops then she'd have to publish it, wouldn't she? 

Unless she just goes digging and talks to the wrong people at the SCPD who put 2+2 together? The only problem is that Chase is the only one who knows that the Green Arrow killed Billy, and he said he destroyed the evidence. Unless I guess maybe he didn't and in some weird rage-filled episode he gives that evidence to Susan for her report? 

Or maybe Prometheus had a recording and he gives it to her. In which case she still publishes it with malice knowing that Oliver either is or could be the Green Arrow. And in that case...regardless of what Oliver thinks when he finds out she's been investigating him, why on earth would she want to stay with a guy who murdered a cop? 

I guess maybe she could plan on reporting it and have all of her information collected and then it could get released anyway, but that doesn't make much sense because the only person who would release it is Prometheus, and he already knows that Oliver killed Billy - there's no need to bring the reporter into it and then release something without her knowledge. 

None of this is making a whole lot of sense, so...it's just a wait and see, I guess.

Edited by apinknightmare

So I went back to read the original casting news for Susan:

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The CW has revealed to TV Insider that Carly Pope will be taking on the recurring role of Susan Williams, a journalist from nearby Coast City who comes to Star City “looking to make a name for herself” by targeting Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) for a big story.

I know that things change - just look at "Tina's" casting news - but was it ever mentioned that she came from Coast City? Didn't she act like Star City was "her" city (and in a way that didn't imply that it's just because she lives there now) in the 505 convo with HT Oliver? Or am I remembering wrong? 

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Didn't she act like Star City was "her" city (and in a way that didn't imply that it's just because she lives there now) in the 505 convo with HT Oliver? Or am I remembering wrong? 

No, you're right. That was the reason why she decided to give him a 30-day expose reprieve - because he told her he wanted to do some good for the city.

11 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why was all of the during show comments moved out of the spec thread?

The comments posted AFTER the show aired were moved. And I'm moving some more, because a lot of commentary is about the episode that aired and not spoiler discussion.

ETA: I decided to leave things as-is for now, but make sure what you are discussing here is relevant to spoiler speculation. If it is about an aired episode, it needs to go in its thread.

19 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

The comments posted AFTER the show aired were moved. And I'm moving some more, because a lot of commentary is about the episode that aired and not spoiler discussion.


This post that I imagine was moved -- it has spoilers for episode 14, so it shouldn't be in the episode thread:

Also, maybe we could get a definite ruling about live-posting the episodes? We always did it here in the spoiler thread, the only rule was that the comments couldn't be vague. Should live-posting be done in the episode thread from now on?

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I thought SA's comment about ep 13 being a "very special episode" was sarcastic until I found out MG wrote it. It's definitely going to be heavy with social commentary.

I guess it's too much to expect that Felicity would get any attention in an episode about gun violence? Since she's the one that was actually shot and paralyzed last season, not that the show even remembers that.

Edited by lemotomato
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11 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I truly believe he knows what she's up to. She double crossed his sister, then brought up Russia around him, then noticed how she was basically extra clingy around him, desperate to date him. He then visits her apartment and she serves him russian vodka and basically keeps bringing up the fact that they haven't slept together. And when they do sleep together she wants to talk about his scars and his time on the island. I am going to lean with Stephen basically giving us a hint that perhaps he isnt being played here but that he's the one doing the playing.

Man, I want this to be so. It would help offset the frustration I currently have towards Oliver's stupidity if I knew there was a payoff for it.  Just a hint would be nice.  I get that they love their gotcha moments but show me some gears cranking in that head.

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But if Oliver is playing Susan, how far is he going to go with this? What's his plan? How long is he going to keep dating her before he reveals he knows what she's up to? If he's planning to wait until she tips her hand a bit, what if she decides to wait until she has everything? Is he okay if it takes months/a year/etc.?

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411mania's review of 512 described Oliver as a "sin-eater", which is the episode title for 514. Hmm...

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This may seem like more of Arrow as a hollow morality play – my least favorite Arrow – but it fits the structure I laid out above. Oliver’s conscious decision to compromise his own ethics, so that his partners don’t do the same, is a logical solution to the time sensitive problem of General Walker. But it’s also a direct rebuke to Prometheus’ main thesis – that Oliver makes everyone around him worse. This is Oliver realizing that he has the power to change that, mainly by operating as a sin-eater for his entire team in all their endeavors. The Past – sorry, THE PAST doesn’t have to be Oliver’s anchor, he realizes, but it does inform who he is in the present. Or, basically, what’s one more misdeed done for the greater good?

Edited by tv echo
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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't care about her relationship with Oliver because its not about them as a couple. Oliver/Susan and Felicity/Billy has been about plot and maybe Character motivation (at least in Felicity's case). I need to know what her plot purpose is. Billy's entire purpose was to die and set up Felicity's dark arc. What is Susan's purpose IF our suspicions for 14 are true? Is it to push Oliver to come out of the GA closet? Is it to remove Oliver from Mayor duty since the show seeks bored with it already? There's a plot reason for her existence and that's what I'm trying to figure out.

I can't figure out which outcome I'd prefer because they're all going to make Oliver look terrible. Either she:

  • sets out to betray/expose him (either with Talia or Prometheus' help, or on her own) and succeeds -- making Oliver look like an idiot
  • sets out to betray/expose him but has second thoughts and doesn't -- which still makes Oliver look like an idiot
  • is planning on betraying/exposing him but Oliver has been playing her this whole time and somehow stops her before she can hurt him too much -- which makes him look a bit less like an idiot (but still not great because he's kept this plan from his team. Also, he's sleeping with her now so that adds a gross layer of grossness)

I'm leaning towards the third option because I just can't see the point of her character if it's option two, and I'd be surprised if it's option one and his secret identity is totally burned. That said, they do keep talking about how the end of season 5 closes a chapter, so maybe?

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Honest question: Does anyone, and I mean anyone, care about that Susan storyline? I have the feeling that nobody needs or wants this storyline and at the moment, there is no indication why it is there other than keeping Oliver from going out as GA so that Tinah can become a permanent team member/leader and that he might no see what Felicity is up to.

Also, if Oliver doesn't know Susan's agenda, he is just the dumbest person ever (regardless of whether or not SA considers words like those to be harsh) or he knows it and it is so gross that he'd then sex her up before exposing her.

5x13 promo pics have Diggle and Tinah bonding. So the spoilers about her bonding with every member of the team seem accurate. As far as I can tell Thea is back in the office and Felicity is completely mia from promotion. Everyone else gets a pic. Tinah gets a close-up in a leather jacket.

Edited by Belinea
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I'm predicting that next episode might set up some Tinah and Felicity having bonding issues as a precursor for 5x14 when Oliver is forced out of the suit Tinah and Felicity have to work together to take down the Dark Bitds of Prey and become friends from working together and ends with Felicity giving Tinah her costume identity.

Based on nothing just spitballing. I would kind of like if the show acknowledged at face value Tinah and Felicity are different personalities  and probably wouldn't be natural friends but then see them work their way to being friends. 

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Just now, Belinea said:

Like I actually want to feel an emotion to what is going on other than 'get it over with'. Maybe I am watching tv wrong, that might be it. 

I care about the story because I want to understand the purpose. That might not be caring or enough for you but, I'm sure there are fans (like me) who 'care' about Oliver/Susan and what it means to the plot and the Character motivation

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3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think the whole point might be what motivates Oliver in to coming out as the Green Arrow to the people of Star City.

Can he even come out to the people? I mean whether or not he did a good deed, he still killed tons of people. Most recently, the guys in the helicopter. They'd have to arrest him for that.

Edited by Belinea
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But if he announces he's the GA and even if for some reason, the public and all law enforcement is willing to look the other way even though he's murdered people, would the same be true for everyone else who works with him? What if some agency takes offense upon realizing who hacked them and goes after Felicity? Someone argues that GA using his bow and arrow is okay, but it's not okay for Diggle and WD to be out there with guns or something? I think it would be very difficult for Oliver to announce he's GA and for everyone else's identities to remain secret after that. It's very, very tricky and risky. 

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5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm predicting that next episode might set up some Tinah and Felicity having bonding issues as a precursor for 5x14 when Oliver is forced out of the suit Tinah and Felicity have to work together to take down the Dark Bitds of Prey and become friends from working together and ends with Felicity giving Tinah her costume identity.

Based on nothing just spitballing. I would kind of like if the show acknowledged at face value Tinah and Felicity are different personalities  and probably wouldn't be natural friends but then see them work their way to being friends. 

Since it looks like Felicity isn't on the "Tinah is awesome" train yet from 512, I feel like this might happen. If anything, I am feeling pretty confident that Tinah's probably going to be key to beating the girl group. Felicity acknowledging something like they need Tinah and that she's going to trust her (just noticed, Tinah hasn't been to the Bunker as of yet, so maybe they are playing it at least slightly on their toes with her) even though she's new could be a part of that.

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