Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Wow, that's tepid enthusiasm even from GB. It makes it would more like he's throwing the idea out there rather than adhering to the gospel of Green Arrow.

Because it didn't originate with Berlanti, IMO. I'm telling you this has all the markings of a corporate suit making a decision and forcing it on EPs. Now, how they implement it is totally on MG/WM but, yeah I'm fully convinced someone in TW said put another BC on because (we think KC/LL screw up our IP, we think we'll be able to sell tons of merchandice if we slap a mask on any female and call her BC, we want a BC visable for future movies, etc)

[Guest]

Yikes. If I was a LL fan, I wouldn't believe a thing the EP's said. They've misled fans a lot. Not to mention they've bought someone else on to become BC so even if they wanted to redeem Black Siren, what would she be? What's her place? Would she still be Black Siren but good now? Like, it doesn't really make much sense, IMO. Haha, they are so dumb.

As for 513, sounds like another episode I'll be skipping. Wild Dog wasn't bad in 510 and I do think there are ways to make him more likeable but I just don't care? I really don't care about any of the newbies tbh. Tina included. Maybe I would if they wrote better for the characters they already have. IDK. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited January 27, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Yikes. If I was a LL fan, I wouldn't believe a thing the EP's said. They've misled fans a lot. Not to mention they've bought someone else on to become BC so even if they wanted to redeem Black Siren, what would she be? What's her place? Would she still be Black Siren but good now? Like, it doesn't really make much sense, IMO. Haha, they are so dumb.

Yeah, that right there is basically the problem with any future BS redemption story. Would they redeem her and send her back to her Earth to protect it? But then what's to stop her from just turning villain again once she's back on Earth-2? 

Why have her stick around on Arrow? So she and Tina can scream at the enemy from both sides? What would distinguish the two from each other? Would Tina have the hand-to-hand combat skills since she's Oliver's equal and BS would, what, just stand back and scream when they need her to? What would she do when she's not in the field as BS? Hang around Star City as Laurel's twin? Pretend to be Laurel? Just stay in the lair? 

Or say they decide to put BS on another show. Pretty sure CC remembers her destroying buildings and what not, so why would the citizens suddenly be like, "Okay, sure, that meta who tried to kill us all is now working for The Flash. Great! We love her!" So The Flash is out. And making Sara work with another Earth's version of her sister on a daily basis would just be cruel. That rules out Legends of Tomorrow. I really doubt they'd move BS over to Supergirl. 

[rtalive]

So this new promo looks amazing. I am really excited for the new Tina character. She looks bad ass and the show needs more female characters anyway. Hope she sticks around and fans didn't kill her.

[AyChihuahua]

20 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Or say they decide to put BS on another show. Pretty sure CC remembers her destroying buildings and what not, so why would the citizens suddenly be like, "Okay, sure, that meta who tried to kill us all is now working for The Flash. Great! We love her!" So The Flash is out. And making Sara work with another Earth's version of her sister on a daily basis would just be cruel. That rules out Legends of Tomorrow. I really doubt they'd move BS over to Supergirl. 

Your logic is impeccable, but also, if they want to stick her on one of those shows, they just will, logic be damned.

(I think she'll maybe get an ep or two on Flash or LoT, but that's it.)

[Belinea]

Can I just say that I hate the word 'juicy'... Also, if he finds it difficult to talk about the thing is he writing or planing on writing maybe he should consider that to be a sign.

Also I find it somewhat strange that they come out and just call her New Black Canary. Not that that one is a well-kept secret but he basically said that she will be the one to wear the mask sooner than later. Or maybe it is just me being sensitive about the whole subject.

Furthermore, I totally believe that DC wanted BC on the show even though the show works without her (at least to me) Why couldn't she have been Sara? She'd drop by once in a while and on other days she fights her own fights. Because I choose to believe that if you are that independent you have a hard time being on a team. But then again I tend to forget about the instant emotional connection to Oliver. She will probably like how he looks in his leather pants and that will be enough. (I'm kidding but only a little) 

Didn't the lose enough viewers already? I doubt they'll win them back with a new canary. Better stories. Maybe. New characters? Probably not.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

Based on what little we've seen of Tina in the previews (which admittedly could be misleading), it seems like they modeled her after Wild Dog. Which, if true, probably not the best idea. So if they did, I'm really curious about how she's going to be received (apart from any lingering hard feelings anyone might have over her becoming a new Canary). 

[Cleanqueen]

But how do we go from Tina not wanting anything to do with them to her joining them on their trip to Russia. Like yeah she agrees probably at the end of 5x11 to join them but are we to assume there is a time jump between 5x11 and 5x12?

[statsgirl]

I think one of the things I've noticed about Arrow is that the best liked characters stick to the background (Rory, Curtis s4, Felicity s1 and 2, Roy).  once a character goes front and centre, they're more disliked (Sara in 2B, Felicity).

So why, when they know that WD is already "an acquired taste", why would they think that giving him a flashback episode would endear him to the audience?  Unless they needed him well liked and soon, it would be a better strategy to keep him as he was in 510, pleasant and in the background.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

But how do we go from Tina not wanting anything to do with them to her joining them on their trip to Russia. Like yeah she agrees probably at the end of 5x11 to join them but are we to assume there is a time jump between 5x11 and 5x12?

I'm telling you, Oliver is going to give the best speech of his life to Tina in 511. It's the only explanation for how she's game to move to Star City and then go to Russia after what we saw in the promo. 

I'm assuming there might be a time jump between 510 and 511 while they start looking at/Oliver rules out potential BCs? There wasn't a jump between 509 and 510 - I think it's been one, at the most, two days? Maybe we'll get another one between 511 and 512? Or Tina has just always wanted to go to Russia and figures here's her chance. 

I'm more interested in how they're all going to Russia. Private jet? Flying coach? (Maybe Rene can't go because he doesn't have a passport, which is why he's in Star City to help Lance?) What's the excuse for the public as to why their mayor is MIA this time? If Oliver keeps having these "medical problems," even if they're just used for people like Chase, he's not really going to look like the best person to be mayor. Then again, it does help that no one wants the job because the mayors of Star City are all killed. 

[dtissagirl]

10 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

But how do we go from Tina not wanting anything to do with them to her joining them on their trip to Russia. Like yeah she agrees probably at the end of 5x11 to join them but are we to assume there is a time jump between 5x11 and 5x12?

Not necessarily. I mean, maybe they time jump, but I figure in tptb's head this is straightforward: Tina accepts the invitation to join the team at the end of 511, going to Russia is the first team mission after she's joined the team, ergo she's going to Russia.

[Chaser]

I think keeping it simple with Tina is the best thing they can do. Give us her island backstory. Recruit her like it's a job. Give her a heart to heart so she takes the name. Done. 

[tv echo]

I posted this article in the Social Media thread because it's mostly non-spoilery bio stuff on Beth Schwartz, but it did contain this spoiler:

Quote

Although Schwartz cannot discuss upcoming episodes, she did say that she had to make a recording of a Hebrew prayer for one of the actors to learn. Even the name of the prayer or the particular character couldn’t be revealed.

So I'm guessing Rory and 512/513?

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

Do Rory and Felicity pray together or does he pray for her cause he thinks she needs the prayer...this sounds emo. And yeah I think that Ragman won't be around past 5x12.

[Velocity23]

so is it fb or present time

[Sunshine]

I think present day. I thought SA was in Arrow costume here yesterday.

[Velocity23]

wasnt sure with the russian flag

[Sunshine]

10 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Do Rory and Felicity pray together or does he pray for her cause he thinks she needs the prayer...this sounds emo. And yeah I think that Ragman won't be around past 5x12.

Another option might be Felicity for Rory if something happens to him in 5.12.  

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

wasnt sure with the russian flag

Didn't see the flag.  I do now. SA was sprawled on the ice yesterday in dark clothing so I assumed it was the Arrow suit.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sunshine

[calliope1975]

20 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

And yeah I think that Ragman won't be around past 5x12.

Well, that would be disappointing. I like him best of all the newbs. 

[ladylaw99]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Well, that would be disappointing. I like him best of all the newbs. 

Me too.  Figures he would be the one to possibly leave. 

[Morrigan2575]

We haven't seen anything of Rory passed 512? Huh, I didn't realize.

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah I know the actor posted pics outside of Vancouver and none of the BTS pics showed him beyond 5x12.

[HighHopes]

There's no way that Rory dies in 5x13's "Very Special Episode" is there? With Felicity saying the prayer for him? 

[Morrigan2575]

They did hint that Rory/Ragman would eventually leave. Wow, I just figured it would be later in the season and he'd choose a new path. I wonder if they really will kill him off in 513?

[LeighAn]

Noooo If Rory dies it probably means Wild Dog won't :(

Edited January 27, 2017 by LeighAn

[insomniadreams88]

And now I'm really worried about Rory. If they don't want him around anymore (Why, show? Why wouldn't you want the best newbie around anymore?), can't they just send him off to another city? Don't kill him!  

[HighHopes]

Didn't they also say something about how Felicity and Havenrock would be (something) until 5x12? If Rory is the last living survivor of Havenrock, and he dies in 5x13, I could see that playing into the whole Felicity “going dark” storyline. 

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Didn't they also say something about how Felicity and Havenrock would be (something) until 5x12? If Rory is the last living survivor of Havenrock, and he dies in 5x13, I could see that playing into the whole Felicity “going dark” storyline. 

Well that is bleak.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oh, that would be really sad. I still hope Rory will decide to leave to help people somewhere else because he is such a nice guy.

[Cleanqueen]

I hope he doesn't die but instead decides to hang up his rags...Wendy did say he goes on his own path but will be still part of the team from time to time. I love Joe and would love to see more of him so I hope he doesn't die. 

[Sunshine]

I thought maybe they would have him follow in the footsteps of his father and his grandfather and have him join whichever branch of the military. This would allow him to save lives with his rags. He's not really doing that in Star City. Not sure how a trip to Russia plays into that.  

Narratively he's been there for Felicity's story. She's now going to have new cohorts so I think he's done.  Maybe another "being true to who I am" scenario?

[Morrigan2575]

WM or (was it MG?) Interview did make it sound like Rory was maybe going to leave town or the team but, still be around to pop in for the occasional episode.

Not sure about him joining the Military. 

[Sunshine]

Yeah. I wasn't sure if she was talking a specific episode or the rest of the season when she mentioned him going down a slightly different path but mainly helping the team.  I just know his family's legacy was portrayed as saving lives.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted us to like Wild Dog so much that they killed Rory, who is the fan favourite, like they killed Sarafor Laurel.

I really hope not though.  Let him go off somewhere on his own quest.  I"m going to hope that it's a prayer for a safe journey.

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I still want to know how BS managed to get into the lair at all. They changed the codes after they found out Evelyn betrayed them, right? So shouldn't they be questioning how it is that BS could be waiting for Oliver there? Isn't that something they should worry about in the future? Especially since they saw Prometheus just walk into STAR Labs. Because what that's telling me is that we should expect Prometheus to just walk right into the lair whenever he decides he wants to in an upcoming episode. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted us to like Wild Dog so much that they killed Rory, who is the fan favourite, like they killed Sarafor Laurel.

I really hope not though.  Let him go off somewhere on his own quest.  I"m going to hope that it's a prayer for a safe journey.

.....well since the first time it worked so well let's hope not for everyone involved..

[AyChihuahua]

The plotline of getting Tina to join the team is in a lot of pics for the next episode for being the "C plot."

Edited January 28, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

Are you serious?

TVline has 13 pics up. She is in 2 and it's the same scene. For comparison: Talia is in 5, Wild Dog in 4. Only Curtis is in less as he only has 1.

[apinknightmare]

I'm not sure why "C plot" is in quotes? According to the synopsis, it is the C plot. Talia is A, Felicity hacking the NSA is B, and recruiting Tina is C. 

[HighHopes]

The main photo is of Tina, and I'm guessing the non-FB scenes are all Tina-Related scenes. The ones with Wild Dog and Curtis look to be of the same scene as the ones with Tina and Oliver and my best guess is the in the  field-looking ones are them finding her since they are in their suits when they meet her. 

I'm not too hopeful for good Felicity/Diggle stuff. My TimeHop today reminded me that BFS tweeted that AWOL featured "one of his favourite Diggle/Felicity moments of season four" and I honestly cannot even remember Digg and Felicity having any scenes in season four.

Edited January 28, 2017 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

It's clear that the photos taken are approximately only 2-3 scenes. I think it's kind of presumptuous to say that Tina is going to be the focus of the episode based on these photos and the promo...

Remember how 510 was promoted? None of us knew that it would be so Felicity heavy yet she got over 16 minutes of screentime in that episode.

[Chaser]

Just for kicks, I looked at the photos for 4x03 and 4x13. 4x03 features lots of Nanda Parbat and 4x13 had quite a few of Felicity and her Dad. Neither amounted to lots of screen time. 

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not too hopeful for good Felicity/Diggle stuff. My TimeHop today reminded me that BFS tweeted that AWOL featured "one of his favourite Diggle/Felicity moments of season four" and I honestly cannot even remember Digg and Felicity having any scenes in season four.

During the debrief at the end of the episode, Felicity complimented Digg on knowing how to rig the surveillance cameras in the jail to transmit to the lair, and Digg responded with "I just wanted to make you proud." It was a really sweet moment.

[Sunshine]

They are just whatever is filming when the photographer is on set. Sometimes it means something. Most times it means nothing.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

During the debrief at the end of the episode, Felicity complimented Digg on knowing how to rig the surveillance cameras in the jail to transmit to the lair, and Digg responded with "I just wanted to make you proud." It was a really sweet moment.

Aw I loved that moment :')

[insomniadreams88]

12 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not too hopeful for good Felicity/Diggle stuff. My TimeHop today reminded me that BFS tweeted that AWOL featured "one of his favourite Diggle/Felicity moments of season four" and I honestly cannot even remember Digg and Felicity having any scenes in season four.

 

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

During the debrief at the end of the episode, Felicity complimented Digg on knowing how to rig the surveillance cameras in the jail to transmit to the lair, and Digg responded with "I just wanted to make you proud." It was a really sweet moment.

I think that might have been the only Diggle/Felicity moment in season 4? Other than 419? Unless you count Diggle bringing her flowers that may or may not have been from Oliver?

I'm not surprised the photos are all from Tina and Talia scenes. They'd want to promote those two new characters and photographers aren't on set every day. 

I do have to say it's a big gamble to reveal their identities to Tina right off the bat. Obviously they have to in order to get her to move to Star City and join the team, but still. They were just betrayed and it seems they only remember that when necessary for the plot. 

[Chaser]

Revealing themselves to Tina based on some google research is Reporter level stupid. Still, I prefer that to lots of scenes on rooftops for clandestine meetings trying to earn her trust.

I say wrap speed it. Engage.

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

I think that might have been the only Diggle/Felicity moment in season 4? Other than 419? Unless you count Diggle bringing her flowers that may or may not have been from Oliver?

Probably. I remember it clearly because there were hardly any Digg/Felicity scenes. There was 419 and they had a moment in the season finale too, but that's about it.

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Revealing themselves to Tina based on some google research is Reporter level stupid. Still, I prefer that to lots of scenes on rooftops for clandestine meetings trying to earn her trust.

I kinda blame Felicity for this lol Remember in 502 where she implored Oliver to reveal himself to the newbs so they could trust him?

[Chaser]

 My favorite Felicity/Diggle moment was in an OTA scene. When Diggle was caught in the middle of Felicity's mother and Oliver's cordon blue. The way he got quiet after meeting Felicity's glare. Lol The scene was gold.