Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Those EP's sure know how to inspire enthusiasm in their viewers! I don't even have any snark left. I'm just bummed now. 

I don't even really care about him being in a relationship, but I do care about him continuing to be a moron. I would really like him to stop doing that just even a little bit, and that article is like, "lolololol no, not happening." 

[Velocity23]

I mean one of the writers was on set for 5x09? They could have easily brought in some changes. And we know the EPs were in Vancouver around that time. Because of the 100th episode party. 

This is the typical CW stall. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Velocity23

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Given Oliver's new love for the reporter and his concern for and trust in her (and his lack of real concern for both Diggle and Felicity) I am fine if they never reunite.  Felicity deserves far better than a box of rocks like Oliver who she cannot count on when her world is in pieces.  And at this point I am thinking that might be what WM and Co want. 

The one thing I will never not be pissed about when it comes to this show is them removing Felicity and Diggle's friendship in the name of all of the new masks (LL included).

You know, either they are doing it on purpose bc Olicity really is dead and they want people to fall out of love with it, or they are truly unbearably dumb. I am certainly not as confident as some that they will reunite. It's not really such a sure thing anymore...Buffy ended with Buffy not being with Angel, I believe Elena is no longer even on TVD, Abbie actually died on Sleepy Hollow...the total confidence that of COURSE they'll reunite the primary couple seems unearned to me.

But, if this is all just basically a regular stall and they're not trying to ruin the couple, holy shit are they terrible writers.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I mean one of the writers was on set for 5x09?

Isn't a writer on set every episode? 

[Velocity23]

Not always. 

[lemotomato]

I'm just wondering how "all in" and "genuine" Oliver/reporter are supposed to be when she's lying about/hiding her investigation of him, and he's lying about/hiding his GA identity. 

But sure, WM, by all means, keep trying to sell what you think is working for ya this season.

[Belinea]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

You know, either they are doing it on purpose bc Olicity really is dead and they want people to fall out of love with it

But, if this is all just basically a regular stall and they're not trying to ruin the couple, holy shit are they terrible writers.

Well, they might have managed to succeed but they are still not the best of writers even if it is the case. At this point, I don't even like watching old stuff because it annoys me. I feel as though people are in the process of letting it go. I might be wrong but it feels as if they managed to kill all positivity and general enthusiasm for their only main couple apart from the comic canon couple. 

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Belinea said:

Well, they might have managed to succeed but they are still not the best of writers even if it is the case. At this point, I don't even like watching old stuff because it annoys me. I feel as though people are in the process of letting it go. I might be wrong but it feels as if they managed to kill all positivity and general enthusiasm for their only main couple apart from the comic canon couple. 

Yeah, I used to have S1/S2 eps on Netflix in the background when I was cooking or whatever. I can't stand to watch even a moment of the show now.

And they're awful writers no matter what. I would just really like to know whether they're ruining Olicity/Oliver on purpose or through utter incompetence and a total inability to understand normal human emotional responses. Writing Oliver wanting to make out (IMO bang, that scene signaled sexual activity no matter what bs they spout now) after killing a genuinely good person who his former fiancée cared about? That is beyond creepy. Even Dexter didn't want to bang after murdering people.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I'm just wondering how "all in" and "genuine" Oliver/reporter are supposed to be when she's lying about/hiding her investigation of him, and he's lying about/hiding his GA identity. 

Like most things, I'm assuming this is a gross oversell and that this "all in" situation is going to last for an ep, maybe two. Her digging around Oliver's past has to come out soon if for no other reason than they're running out of Russian anvils to drop to remind us that she's a snake. I guess she could do a story about Putin, or make Oliver some pelmeni or something, IDK.

Edited December 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't even really care about him being in a relationship, but I do care about him continuing to be a moron. I would really like him to stop doing that just even a little bit, and that article is like, "lolololol no, not happening." 

 

2 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Well, they might have managed to succeed but they are still not the best of writers even if it is the case. At this point, I don't even like watching old stuff because it annoys me. I feel as though people are in the process of letting it go. I might be wrong but it feels as if they managed to kill all positivity and general enthusiasm for their only main couple apart from the comic canon couple. 

It's both of these for me. Oliver isn't fun to watch anymore, and I'm having a difficult time rooting for him or wanting him to have nice things. Felicity and Diggle humanized him, and that's what I responded to. OQ is the protagonist of the show, and the most airtime will be devoted to him, as it should be. But TIIC seem to be stripping away what made him so compelling to watch. I've watched less than half the eps this season, and at this point, I'm hoping for a S6 turnaround instead of banking on anything this year. 

I'm trying not to turn this into a bitterness post since this isn't the right thread. So let me say I still have some curiosity about Tina, and I do want to know who Prometheus is because I'm curious if they can stick this landing or if it will be rando villain's kid from S1. At this point, I'm hoping for Roy or anything that surprises me. 

[Trisha]

35 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Just the way it was phrased by Wendy. 5x10 and 5x11 seems to be low on Susan. So i am guessing 5x12 is the hook up episode and probably ends with some kind of Susan reveal. And 5x13- 5x15 will be the aftermath. 

Ah, I just saw the article. Well, they certainly know how to kill any excitement for future eps. Oliver and Susan "go all in" and have a "genuine relationship"? There goes any lingering hope that Oliver couldn't possibly be this stupid and is just playing her. 

The only silver lining: WM started talking up Billy just before he died. Maybe this is what she's doing now? 

[Sunshine]

SA said at the last con that he was filming a shirtless scene the next day. Most seemed to think it was about how he got his tattoo since they were filming 5.12. My guess now would be love scene (even if similar to F&B in 505 since they are going "all in") which leads to that flashback. 5.12 is 1st sweeps episode.  Does their discussion lead to a mainly flashback episode.

[lemotomato]

20 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Like most things, I'm assuming this is a gross oversell and that this "all in" situation is going to last for an ep, maybe two. 

I agree. I hope "all in" is about as true as when she said we'll see LL "alive and well."

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

My guess now would be love scene (even if similar to F&B in 505 since they are going "all in") which leads to that flashback. 5.12 is 1st sweeps episode.

I wonder if it'll be like Susan pushing his shirt off of his chest and running her fingers over the tattoo and talking about how beautiful it is or something super obvious, then a close-up of the tattoo to transition to a scene of Oliver getting it. 

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wonder if it'll be like Susan pushing his shirt off of his chest and running her fingers over the tattoo and talking about how beautiful it is or something super obvious, then a close-up of the tattoo to transition to a scene of Oliver getting it. 

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Susan goes, "Hey, nice tattoo, where did you get it? What does it mean?" And Oliver starts answering her with, "Well, I was in Russia and fulfilling a promise for a woman I knew on the island... I mean, uh, never mind. You didn't hear that, right?"

[Belinea]

But then they'd have to have an afterglow scene because apparently the viewer doesn't understand when sex is happening and when it isn't. Kissing in lingerie isn't the gateway to a sex scene but a chat...Therefore, we should hope that there is something afterwards because people don't seem to get the story (or the show)

[Mrs. de Winter]

9 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But then they'd have to have an afterglow scene

Or have Felicity show up at the reporter hotel door* to get Oliver to help save the city/Diggle/Thea/etc.  Only this time Oliver will berate Felicity for pulling him away from something far more important.

*assuming Oliver doesn't just move the reporter into the lair by then since he is "all in" with her

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Or have Felicity show up at the reporter hotel door* to get Oliver to help save the city/Diggle/Thea/etc.  Only this time Oliver will berate Felicity for pulling him away from something far more important.

*assuming Oliver doesn't just move the reporter into the lair by then since he is "all in" with her

Oh please no. I don't want Felicity anywhere near anything having to do with Oliver/Susan. I don't even want Susan mentioned around her. 

[apinknightmare]

There isn't any emotional payoff to be had from Felicity seeing them together since she was teasing Oliver about Susan being his girlfriend and saw them together at the mayor's holiday party. She knows they're a couple, and she'll continue to be unbothered for plot, unless the plot for some reason needs her to be bothered by it.

Edited December 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

There isn't any emotional payoff to be had from Felicity seeing them together since she was teasing Oliver about Susan being his girlfriend and saw them together at the mayor's holiday party. She knows they're a couple, and she'll continue to be unbothered for plot, unless the plot for some reason needs her to be bothered by it.

Unless, now that Billy's dead, they plan to have Felicity have some big realization that their relationship wasn't real (obviously), she's not over Oliver and she's been bottling everything up since last year. Then they can play up the angst of Felicity realizing she wants to be with Oliver again (and ignore her very valid reason for breaking up with him) while he's "all in" with Susan. I wouldn't put anything past these writers. These characters will feel however they want them to feel for the plot. 

[Velocity23]

all in probably just means sex. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

But if Felicity sees them post-coital and Oliver doesn't care that she does it does show how all in Oliver is with Susan.  And if realizing she has truly lost the magic penis makes Felicity do even darker things I am sure the "writers" would be fine with that too. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Unless, now that Billy's dead, they plan to have Felicity have some big realization that their relationship wasn't real (obviously), she's not over Oliver and she's been bottling everything up since last year. Then they can play up the angst of Felicity realizing she wants to be with Oliver again (and ignore her very valid reason for breaking up with him) while he's "all in" with Susan. I wouldn't put anything past these writers. These characters will feel however they want them to feel for the plot. 

Yeah, it's possible. But MG said something on Tumblr to someone in a DM about avoiding drama because it didn't go over very well last year, so I don't expect there will be any romantic drama - at least not between Oliver and Felicity. If anything, Felicity might get pissed at Susan once she finds out that she's been digging into Oliver's past. I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver talked her out of it though. They've been weirdly detached about pretty much everything regarding their relationship history, and I expect that to continue. 

[Belinea]

27 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 They've been weirdly detached about pretty much everything regarding their relationship history, and I expect that to continue. 

I agree with you 100% on that. And that is the main reason why I am so detached from many of the emotional storylines because I cannot understand how anyone can forget being engaged after 6 month. However, seeing as Felicity probably also forgot she had to use a wheelchair, I shouldn't consider anything problematic anymore.

[Guest]

Ooooh, Oliver's gonna go 'all in' alright. Bow chicka wow wow! Sexy times around episode 512? Y/N? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LOL. I'm so out of the loop on spoilers these last couple of weeks that I really don't care anymore. Meh. It was obvious Oliver was gonna sleep with her at some point. Better her than Tina, I suppose? If that aspect is still bothering some. IDK anymore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wouldn't mind news on when Felicity goes dark and hopefully murders everyone though. 10/10 would watch. ;P

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

SA said at the last con that he was filming a shirtless scene the next day. Most seemed to think it was about how he got his tattoo since they were filming 5.12. My guess now would be love scene (even if similar to F&B in 505 since they are going "all in") which leads to that flashback. 5.12 is 1st sweeps episode.  Does their discussion lead to a mainly flashback episode.

What did he he say the scene didn't involve? I think it was two things, but I can't remember what they were. One of them may have been training?

[AyChihuahua]

30 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LOL. I'm so out of the loop on spoilers these last couple of weeks that I really don't care anymore. Meh. It was obvious Oliver was gonna sleep with her at some point. Better her than Tina, I suppose? If that aspect is still bothering some. IDK anymore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why not both?

[Lily-n11]

New Arrow interview / article?   Meh. It can't be good, it is still the year 2016. I don't even need to read it to know I won't like it. Moving on.

I was bored so I looked into the Arrow episodes on IMDb and noticed Ep 5.13 "Spectre of the Gun" has Parveen Dosanjh listet as Doris Chase. So DA Chase / Vigilante might get some focus in this episode.

[insomniadreams88]

13 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

I was bored so I looked into the Arrow episodes on IMDb and noticed Ep 5.13 "Spectre of the Gun" has Parveen Dosanjh listet as Doris Chase. So DA Chase / Vigilante might get some focus in this episode.

Oh, that's promising. I need Arrow to show me soon why he's a series regular. But if this is true, I also hope that it's not like 507 - focus on him for the episode, then let him fade away until the next episode that gives him some focus. 

Wonder if this could mean Chase flashbacks? If 512 is all about the Bratva, I could see them following it up with an episode with non-Oliver flashbacks. 

[bijoux]

Since the Vigilante has apparently lost his family, does this mean that Chase gets the flashbacks this episode? Or maybe this person - mother, wife, daughter, sister? I can't really find anything on the actress to get an idea - is still present but deeply physically and/or psychologically affected by whatever she went through.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Why not both?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then I hope he doesn't forget to buy condoms!

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Angel12d said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then I hope he doesn't forget to buy condoms!

Yeah, he should definitely cover his willy to avoid another (Moronic) Li'l Willy.

To be clear, I am at about 50/50 on him hooking up with Tina. I personally firmly believe the writers aren't even sure yet. I do think they'll at least test it, though.

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yeah, he should definitely cover his willy to avoid another (Moronic) Li'l Willy.

To be clear, I am at about 50/50 on him hooking up with Tina. I personally firmly believe the writers aren't even sure yet. I do think they'll at least test it, though.

If they are the new main ship (Oliver/Tina) shouldn't it drag on for a while? Wouldn't they need to use all the CW stalls on THAT ship?

The more I think about it, the more it is unlikely that a shipper like me will get the shippy ending I want. I remember seeing an article somewhere about all these ships where there is NO happy ending due to actors leaving the show, people getting killed off, spin offs happening removing half of the shipping pair. If you think about it, bad writing aside, the chances of us getting Olicity are really small! If this goes on for 8 seasons  or longer you could have one half of the ship leaving to go on another show (not a spin off but just another show if their contract is up)! 

[Velocity23]

Well since Stephen and Emily are contracted for the same time i dont think that will be an issue.  I find it hard when people compare the situation to TVD and Nina Dobrev. Especially because the girl always said she will stay for 6 season and then decide to leave, also due to the toxic environment caused by the break up with her ex Ian.

Also people need to remember this is the CW. They do not give up on a ship like that with 2-3 seasons to go. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Velocity23

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

If they are the new main ship (Oliver/Tina) shouldn't it drag on for a while? Wouldn't they need to use all the CW stalls on THAT ship?

The more I think about it, the more it is unlikely that a shipper like me will get the shippy ending I want. I remember seeing an article somewhere about all these ships where there is NO happy ending due to actors leaving the show, people getting killed off, spin offs happening removing half of the shipping pair. If you think about it, bad writing aside, the chances of us getting Olicity are really small! If this goes on for 8 seasons  or longer you could have one half of the ship leaving to go on another show (not a spin off but just another show if their contract is up)! 

I've always figured the boyfriend was an excuse for Oliver to get a girlfriend and the girlfriend was a palate cleanser for the real goal, Oliver/Tina. I still mostly think that, but I do wonder if the ratings have spooked them. I am on board with the theory that they expected the crossover to fix the ratings, but they lost the WHOLE bump the very next episode.

And yeah, there are a fair number of shows in which the seeming OTP of the show doesn't end up being the final OTP. That's a big part of why I don't understand the total confidence that Olicity will reunite. The other part is that I think the writers are genuinely terrible at their jobs and something is happening at DC/CW/WB.

But I had a lot of predictions about the first half of the season, nearly all of which turned out to be correct, and I've got nothing for the latter half (beyond Tina becoming BC). Nothing about this show makes sense anymore, from either an in-show or out-of-show perspective.

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Well since Stephen and Emily are contracted for the same time i dont think that will be an issue.  

Where was that reported?

[Velocity23]

Didn't Emily mentioned it at a con during s2? 

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

Didn't Emily mentioned it at a con during s2? 

Not that I have ever heard.

@tv echo?

Edited December 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[insomniadreams88]

19 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yeah, he should definitely cover his willy to avoid another (Moronic) Li'l Willy.

Maybe Susan can go away for a bit and then come back at the end of the season and reveal she's pregnant. "Scandal! Mayor Gets Reporter Pregnant!" (I'm assuming she wouldn't be reporting on that bit of news, but you never know.)

Maybe this can even happen in the season finale just as Oliver and Felicity are getting back together - Susan can show up and tell him she's pregnant, maybe not want it to get out, and Oliver can be faced with a decision: tell Felicity or don't tell Felicity. "Hmm, last time I didn't tell Felicity when someone gave me an ultimatum. But maybe this time it'll work out!" 

[Velocity23]

Jesus ... I am out.

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe Susan can go away for a bit and then come back at the end of the season and reveal she's pregnant. "Scandal! Mayor Gets Reporter Pregnant!" (I'm assuming she wouldn't be reporting on that bit of news, but you never know.)

Maybe this can even happen in the season finale just as Oliver and Felicity are getting back together - Susan can show up and tell him she's pregnant, maybe not want it to get out, and Oliver can be faced with a decision: tell Felicity or don't tell Felicity. "Hmm, last time I didn't tell Felicity when someone gave me an ultimatum. But maybe this time it'll work out!" 

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

NO MORE DUMB QUEEN BABIES 20FOREVER!

Maybe this one would eat printer ink instead of crayons.

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Jesus ... I am out.

Because I asked for a citation for a factual statement?

Or because of the baby stuff? I think they're jokes?

Edited December 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Velocity23]

No because the theories here are getting too much.  And not enough alcohol in me. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Velocity23

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

No because the theories here are getting too much. 

I think they're mostly jokes. Though the pessimistic theories are the ones that have proven to be true so far, so....

Edited December 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Velocity23]

I just want to leave 2016 in 2016. I am optimistic for 2017. 

[insomniadreams88]

Oh, I'm completely joking. I don't think they'd actually have Susan (or Tina or any other LI of Oliver's) get pregnant. It's one thing to have a pregnancy from years ago lead to a present-day kid, but I don't think they'd want to devote the time they would need to to telling the story of a pregnancy in present day.

Look at how they told Lyla's pregnancy - Diggle found out she was pregnant in the S2 finale and she gave birth in the S3 premiere. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by insomniadreams88

[Lily-n11]

49 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Since the Vigilante has apparently lost his family, does this mean that Chase gets the flashbacks this episode? Or maybe this person - mother, wife, daughter, sister? I can't really find anything on the actress to get an idea - is still present but deeply physically and/or psychologically affected by whatever she went through.

Neither could I. But looking at her other credits I noticed she in Unleashing Mr. Darcy (yes I did watch that recently). So I went back to YT and found the Dog Groomer. I have no idea if this really is the actress listed on IMDb.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Lily-n11

[Velocity23]

She will be in a future episode of Frequency. Easiest way to figure it out. 

[arjumand]

3 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

You know, either they are doing it on purpose bc Olicity really is dead and they want people to fall out of love with it, or they are truly unbearably dumb. I am certainly not as confident as some that they will reunite. It's not really such a sure thing anymore...Buffy ended with Buffy not being with Angel, I believe Elena is no longer even on TVD, Abbie actually died on Sleepy Hollow...the total confidence that of COURSE they'll reunite the primary couple seems unearned to me.

But, if this is all just basically a regular stall and they're not trying to ruin the couple, holy shit are they terrible writers.

It's not really valid to compare Oliver/Felicity with those other couples, though. Buffy and Angel had a massive stumbling block built into their relationship from the start. Also, like Elena and Damon, you had a teenage girl with her first true love, a man who was hundreds of years older than her. With Buffy and Angel, the idea was always that they would break up eventually, but Joss and co underestimated how much a teenage female audience would become invested in what they saw as a doomed and immature romance. That's why they pushed Marc Blucas as new true love so hard, even after realising the actors had zero chemistry. And I'm sure they forever regretted putting Spike and Buffy together in a fake engagement (a wizard did it!) only for the fandom to go apeshit, because no matter what the actors themselves thought, Spike and Buffy together sizzled.

The main problem with Elena and Damon was the actors' real life relationship which, when it ended, impacted the onscreen relationship.

Abbie and Ichabod were never in a romantic relationship, because the writers made sure to specifiy that Ichabod was a married man, and when the fans saw the chemistry between them, and started becoming vocal about their wish for Ichabbie, the writers/producers went so far as to bring his awfully acted and not at all true to the time wife back from the dead. Because racism (oh yeah, I said it. Come at me bros).

Now I honestly don't know what's happening with Olicity on the show. I'm just watching it, and sighing occasionally. When I think of Felicity going dark, I cheer up slightly, imagining this:

 

But then I get sad again, because it won't even be half as good.

[Mellowyellow]

The more I think about it, the more their promotionof the show baffles me!

Who is all the Reporter All In crap supposed to appeal to? I doubt the comic book fanboys would care because they want LL back or a new BC etc, Olicity shippers are probably raging so who do that think will read this and be all "OMG I've got to tune in, this is going to be so awesome."

Are they trying to drop all the shippers to get an accurate picture of ratings sans shippers or something?

[apinknightmare]

MG has repeatedly said that comic fans don't have the kind of numbers that could keep a show going (around 80k or so), and he's also repeatedly made it known this season that shippers don't matter. So, I don't think they're trying to appeal to anyone in particular, just reporting what's coming up on the show for the hardcore fans who keep tuning in, whatever it is they're tuning in for. 

[AyChihuahua]

30 minutes ago, arjumand said:

It's not really valid to compare Oliver/Felicity with those other couples, though. Buffy and Angel had a massive stumbling block built into their relationship from the start. Also, like Elena and Damon, you had a teenage girl with her first true love, a man who was hundreds of years older than her. With Buffy and Angel, the idea was always that they would break up eventually, but Joss and co underestimated how much a teenage female audience would become invested in what they saw as a doomed and immature romance. That's why they pushed Marc Blucas as new true love so hard, even after realising the actors had zero chemistry. And I'm sure they forever regretted putting Spike and Buffy together in a fake engagement (a wizard did it!) only for the fandom to go apeshit, because no matter what the actors themselves thought, Spike and Buffy together sizzled.

...

It all boils down to the OTP not ending up together. There's always a reason, so I don't see why there can't also be a "reason" for THIS OTP not to end up together. It is entirely possible there's some BTS reason we simply don't know about.

Or they're terrible, terrible writers who have no idea how much damage they're doing. I have no idea. I simply think being 100% sure is unsupportable.