Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

There is no point to Felicity telling anyone. Barry already reversed it and the others have no memory of the timeline. I can't figure out what story the characters can get out of it. I don't even know what Felicity can get out of the knowledge. 

She'll get some of her curiosity satisfied, but as far as she's concerned, it never happened so she'll have no emotional regret for the change.

But me?  I am already so smad about losing baby Sara.  Somehow they used this little baby child that couldn't have had a clue what was going on and got actual performances and character out of her.  I'm not just mad that they tossed out a girl with an unwritten future for a boy in a mask, but that they've made so many of my favorite moments never happen.  

The scene when Oliver sees Felicity looking at her and you see him seeing his dream.  The special meaning in her name that honored Sara at a time when you know they had no intention of bringing her back.  The bonding we saw with THAT child, that GIRL child between the team and of course with Diggle.  It was Sara that visited the Arrow Cave.  It was Sara who was put at risk when Lyla was kidnapped.  It was Sara in that backpack being whisked away on a motorcycle.  And I cared not in the abstract because it was a baby or Diggle's kid but because it was SARA.  She was already an individual, a person.  Her gender even made some of those scenes more poignant too, but now it's like they are telling me she was worthless and didn't matter.  She never existed and are the writers and show runners aren't even going to think anything of it.  Nope, they are going to crow over how clever they were to ditch the dead weight in exchange for a future masked MALE toy. 

I don't give a crap about Conner except in the abstract "let's not hurt kids" way.  They spent two fricken' years really making me care about Sara and now they just deleted her?  Don't they realize how much more valuable Sara was emotionally than some kid that came from no where, whose life we've never been a part of before?  No, I will not just substitute him for the Sara scenes.  Those happened to SARA, not Connor. 

And you know what, I am also just as pissed about the gender thing.  I feel really crapped on as a girl right now and it's worse that I don't think TPTB will have a clue why. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

I am proud to say I went radio silent on spoilers before the premiere. I think I like it. 

I'm posting this here since I don't think Chechnya was mentioned in the episode, but the area on the map is NOT close to it. It's possible that DR just that out of thin air. More likely, production isn't good at geography.

[BkWurm1]

So I do this cathartic long rant and then I go to the Spoiler's only thread and this quote from I think it was WM's interview gives me a tiny bit of hope that MAYBE Sara isn't gone. 

Quote

We left Digg in the military; he went off to assess his own past, and the fact is that he has a child and he also has a nephew out there that at some point is going have to know the truth about the fact that he killed Andy. He basically put the bullet in his body that killed him. He's going to go to the military and try to figure out where he lost his way. He quickly comes to the idea that his answer lies in Spartan and ultimately coming back to the team.

The kid in the picture looked too young to me to be his nephew but it wouldn't have to be a super recent picture of Andy Jr.  Clinging to hope for one more week. 

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I am proud to say I went radio silent on spoilers before the premiere. I think I like it. 

I'm posting this here since I don't think Chechnya was mentioned in the episode, but the area on the map is NOT close to it. It's possible that DR just that out of thin air. More likely, production isn't good at geography.

I accidently went radio silent on spoilers since last night as well (I was busy, lol) and I agree that I had a better viewing experience because of it.  There's no way I can stay away all the time but I'll probably try to opt out before I get to the sneak peeks previews that often give so much away. 

[Ophanim]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I'm posting this here since I don't think Chechnya was mentioned in the episode, but the area on the map is NOT close to it. It's possible that DR just that out of thin air. More likely, production isn't good at geography.

RE: map, it's Balkan, I know, I am from it :D shout out to my country (Croatia). 

Just watched episode and I like it. Just camera was weird in the beginning. Thea got a mini characters pov and Lance is finally finding own place in Arrow, maybe? Felicity and Oliver work well and can someone tell mi which song played when she was in loft? I like the song... 

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, Lidach said:

can someone tell mi which song played when she was in loft? I like the song... 

Tunefind says it's called "Hear Your Heart", by James Bay:

http://www.tunefind.com/show/arrow/season-5/33547#songs

[looptab]

I imagine Blake Neely was like, Nope, I'm not composing a new score for this dude.

[apinknightmare]

23 minutes ago, looptab said:

I imagine Blake Neely was like, Nope, I'm not composing a new score for this dude.

His score would be named "Maloney and Cheese, Extra Mayo"

[kes0704]

I'm wondering if the scene in the trailer showing Felicity kissing someone is mayo cop in 502 and not Human Target.  

In no surprise to anyone, Oliver will see them kissing and realise he needs to "move forward" (as they have already hammered home) which, coincidentally, aligns neatly with the arrival of the reporter woman in 503 allowing him to begin "working hard to win her over".

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, kes0704 said:

 

I'm wondering if the scene in the trailer showing Felicity kissing someone is mayo cop in 502 and not Human Target.  

 

 

Yes, Felicity does appear to be kissing a condiment in that scene. 

[Sunshine]

5.01 Dialogue as a meta statement for the season.

Oliver:  I need to accept that things aren't going to go back to the way they used to be.

Diggle: Does that include you and Felicity?

Oliver:  I don't know.

I think the writers (GB/MG/WM)  are trying to tell us something.  No GA/BC.  No OTA.  Maybe no Olicity?

Edited October 6, 2016 by Sunshine

[Chaser]

I don't want that to go back. Back is secrets and lies and dumb kids and broken engagements. I want forward and married Olicity. 

DR said there was some good OTA this season. I'm going with him. 

I have to agree with the reviews that said this was about taking everything away and then rebuilding.

[looptab]

I'd like to go with David Ramsey, but he is the trolliest, so I'm not getting my hopes up yet. Still, I don't think they will get rid of the dynamics that have proven time and time again to be working - even if, for some unknown reason, they don't use them as much and as well as they could.

[apinknightmare]

30 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Maybe no Olicity?

These writers are hacks and often do nonsensical, dumb things, but since they already broke Oliver and Felicity up and spent time on that last season, it doesn't *really* make sense to spend any kind of screen time on it this season if they're just going to wind up where they already were. 

They spent time on it last night, even if it was about 30 seconds, and there's that 5th episode that is gonna be...whatever about them. So my guess would be that Oliver's "I don't know" will be answered at the end of the season in a positive way. There just isn't any point in showing a boyfriend after that statement, and then having an alleged "Olicity" episode in 5x05 just to repeatedly hammer home that they're over when they already did that last season.

[dtissagirl]

Yup, agreed. Imo the last 2 minutes of the episode set up two on-going storylines: 1. whether O/F are gonna get together or not, 2. who is the guy dressed up as Bizarro Oliver killing bland white cops.

[Sunshine]

I didn't explain myself very well apparently which happens often. :-)

As far as accepting that things aren't going back to what they were:  It's never just going to be OTA again.  The team is going to expand (and maybe contract) which has been happening the last two seasons even if it's not always in a good way.  I don't mind new members.  I just need it to feel like a team and not a bunch of trick-or-treaters out for a midnight stroll.   I want characters who have relationships to not be written as almost complete strangers.  It doesn't require anything major.  They can interact with newbies.

My main issue isn't whether or not Olicity are together romantically.  As long as SA and EBR are sharing scenes I am good.  I know they are writing them as ambiguous right now and 5.05 will provide "clarity".   My guess is they will do an onscreen rebuild over the course of the season. (I have no interest in a replay of Oliver's S1 romantic arc no matter how normal it might be for TV.)  I thought it was a way of saying maybe not to encourage both sides to keep watching.

I was amused by how they appeared to be saying that viewers need to just accept that this is how things are going to be.  

[Chaser]

I hope Felicity recognizes Ragman's real naane instantly because she has been thinking about the only survivor of Havenrock all summer. I'm assuming a lone survivor would make the headlines. 

[statsgirl]

Maybe no one knew he was a survivor since magic! (Grrrr) helped him survive. That's not something to be shouted in the media.

5 hours ago, kes0704 said:

In no surprise to anyone, Oliver will see them kissing and realise he needs to "move forward" (as they have already hammered home) which, coincidentally, aligns neatly with the arrival of the reporter woman in 503 allowing him to begin "working hard to win her over".

At exactly the time when Felicity realizes that it's Oliver she wants so she dumps the other guy just when Oliver starts dating the reporter..

With this show, I find it best to prepare myself for the Worst Case Scenario.

That said, if the season opener says one thing (s3 'nope, never' s4 going to propose), the season finale will say the opposite (s3 leave together for the summer of love, s4 engagement over.   If you look at it the right way and squint a bit, there's hope for Olicity.  I just hate all the bad hack writing we have to go through to get there.

Edited October 6, 2016 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

I forgot about JB. I'm assuming Malcolm is in 5x08. I wonder if it's for alter verse.

[Chaser]

Going thru OtherPapDude's tweets. Confused about this 'wedding'. It's for 5x08 apparently. 

He did say EBR and DR have been filming less but he didn't say how much. 

[way2interested]

33 minutes ago, Chaser said:

He did say EBR and DR have been filming less but he didn't say how much. 

I thought he was just saying that in reference to the 508 shooting schedule, not in general? Unless that's what you meant.

[Chaser]

I took it as compared to last season as a whole but he could have meant for the crossover.

[Morrigan2575]

Who is "otherpapdude"?

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I took it as compared to last season as a whole but he could have meant for the crossover.

Yeah, I was just taking it as Diggle and Felicity aren't in 508 as much (due to alternate universe whatever where you got stuff with the Queen family) but they were filming other crossover stuff elsewhere, but I could be wrong.

[CabotCove]

Quote

I thought it was a way of saying maybe not to encourage both sides to keep watching.

They should toughen up and pick a path, it doesnt end well to dangle people like this. 

[catrox14]

My SWAG for the day re "Bizarro Oliver". It's either actually Bizarro Oliver from a different timeline or different Earth who came through because of Barry's fuck up, or alternately Jason Todd aka Roy Harper.  The last time we saw Roy he was going by the name Jason.  Maybe something happened to Roy like it did Jason Todd and now he's back to get vengeance on Oliver not realizing what happened to him didn't happen with our Oliver.

[way2interested]

504 actually sounds like it might be really good (no sarcasm).

[Angel12d]

Hmm. Love the sound of Oliver and Lyla teaming up. I'm side eyeing the stuff about Felicity though.

[dtissagirl]

It really does. YAY LYLA.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Hmm. Love the sound of Oliver and Lyla teaming up. I'm side eyeing the stuff about Felicity though.

I don't know - last time we saw Lyla she didn't exercise the best judgment and got a whole lot of people killed IIRC. Maybe it's a dumb plan, haha.

[Chaser]

Makes me really curious about what's going on with Diggle. I wonder what about it Felicity disapproves of. I like the potential of Felicity running the Team.

Im glad Lyla is still around. I was concerned.

[Thundercatmary]

I like the sound of these stories, I mean regardless how they turn out it's at least more substantive than sitting on the couch with Mayo.

I will be interested to see her running the team, or trying to, without both Dig and Oliver. 

[Angel12d]

If this is what gets Felicity to break, then cool. 

And I'm always happy to see Lyla. 

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't know - last time we saw Lyla she didn't exercise the best judgment and got a whole lot of people killed IIRC. Maybe it's a dumb plan, haha.

Wait, when didn't she exercise the best judgment?

[Sunshine]

My concern with 5.04 is if Felicity starts to crack who is going to be there for her - Lance, Curtis, Detective Malone (Will he have a first name by then? LOL), Rory Regan.   Both Oliver and Diggle will be in Chechnya.  This is the episode BFS said to watch about the offensive "mass murders" language. 

Yay Lyla!

[Angel12d]

Detective Extra Mayo can't be the one to comfort Felicity after her breakdown. Je refuse! Haha. Both Diggle and Oliver have experienced trauma and PTSD, they'd be ideal in helping her through it. This would also be the perfect time for some OTA. Sigh. I can dream!

Edited October 7, 2016 by Angel12d

[Morrigan2575]

504 sounds really good. I'm not sure about 503, since the description was a WWE advertisement.  However, Echo sai it was his favorite so it'll probably end up on the DVR but watched. 504 sounds like I'll watch live

[Chaser]

It's nice to see OTA (plus Lyla) get the focus. 

One of the Paps said that KC is filming Arrow (still 5x08) the next three working days. 

Either they are wrong or Arrow's schedule got all screwed. 

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, when didn't she exercise the best judgment?

Didn't she send a bunch of ARGUS agents after Darhk even though Oliver (and possibly Diggle) warned her not to and the team listened to them all get killed over audio? 

[way2interested]

I can see an interesting situation for Felicity for 504 though, since in a way she's going to be in a position that could hypothetically recreate a Havenrock situation with the newbies. Plus it would be hard since literally the best two people who could probably immediately defend Felicity for it (Lyla and Oliver, having been there when it happened and emotionally have been there) aren't there yet a person who might harbor negative feelings from it (Ragman) will be.

On the other side, I wonder if Diggle had been going on purposefully dangerous missions out of guilt and that's what brings Oliver and Lyla over. Making 504 a whole episode about how both Diggle and Felicity go through their "Penance."  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't she send a bunch of ARGUS agents after Darhk even though Oliver (and possibly Diggle) warned her not to and the team listened to them all get killed over audio? 

I can't readily recollect why she did that but I was thinking she kind of thought she had no choice? Or it was the least bad choice? I really can't remember.

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

My concern with 5.04 is if Felicity starts to crack who is going to be there for her - Lance, Curtis, Detective Malone (Will he have a first name by then? LOL), Rory Regan.  

It will surely be someone she barely knows, so likely Ragperson. 

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

It will surely be someone she barely knows, so likely Ragperson. 

Ragperson. LMAO.

I wonder if he finds out what Felicity did and he calls her a mass murderer or something.

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I can see an interesting situation for Felicity for 504 though, since in a way she's going to be in a position that could hypothetically recreate a Havenrock situation with the newbies. Plus it would be hard since literally the best two people who could probably immediately defend Felicity for it (Lyla and Oliver, having been there when it happened and emotionally have been there) aren't there yet a person who might harbor negative feelings from it (Ragman) will be.

On the other side, I wonder if Diggle had been going on purposefully dangerous missions out of guilt and that's what brings Oliver and Lyla over. Making 504 a whole episode about how both Diggle and Felicity go through their "Penance."  

 I love this.

Maybe this is when Ragman finds out everything about Havenrock contributing to Felicity's breakdown. 

[calliope1975]

29 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Detective Malone (Will he have a first name by then? LOL)

Sadly, not for me. Much like #Poppy, this dude will forever be known as Detective Mayo McTinyHands in my mind. 

[Sunshine]

So, Felicity is being positioned in 5A to do something new "for her" sometime in 5B that has nothing to do with her relationship with Oliver or her mother or father.  She's going to organize and run her own network for wayward vigilantes? In 5.01 she's recruiting and in 5.04 she's possibly deploying. Is she going to train them too?! LOL! 

[Chaser]

This forum comes up with the best nicknames. 

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Sadly, not for me. Much like #Poppy, this dude will forever be known as Detective Mayo McTinyHands in my mind. 

I think #Poppy is my favorite nickname ever. It was  just so organic and hilarious.

[Chaser]

27 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

So, Felicity is being positioned in 5A to do something new "for her" sometime in 5B that has nothing to do with her relationship with Oliver or her mother or father.  She's going to organize and run her own network for wayward vigilantes? In 5.01 she's recruiting and in 5.04 she's possibly deploying. Is she going to train them too?! LOL! 

That's very Chloe Sullivan and GATV's head would explode. I can't say I wouldn't enjoy that. Lol

IIRC, he said it didn't necessarily involve her father. That make me think that was some connection. Which I would like because I think there is a lot of potential with Noah.

[ARLES]

Emily said the break down ia between episodes 3 through 5. 

No surprise her breakdown comes to its peak during an Olicity episode

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Hmm. Love the sound of Oliver and Lyla teaming up. I'm side eyeing the stuff about Felicity though.

 

7 hours ago, Chaser said:

 I like the potential of Felicity running the Team.

 

 

I'm seeing some potential really bad stuff for Felicity in that episode.  I am all for her getting in touch with her feelings over Havenrock, but I fear they are going to do it by setting her up to show poor judgment or at least questionable judgment in overseeing the newbies. 

Gives me flashbacks to her closing that door when Diggle and Roy were about to get themselves killed but the boys return to the lair convinced she made a mistake and that they wouldn't have been mowed down by the machine gun baddies hanging out on the tailgate of the truck as they ran hopelessly ran after it on foot.  (No, you would not have caught up to it.)  Doesn't matter that even just a couple episodes later and a couple time more that season we had similar scenarios where Oliver and others stopped chasing after the speeding vehicle because they knew they couldn't have caught up with it on foot, no, people still insist that Felicity made a dumb call just because Diggle and Roy were too stubborn to admit they were out of luck and would have gotten themselves killed for nothing.

If I thought it was going to be a crisis of confidence that is solved within the episode, I'd not be concerned but if Felicity's Havenrock issues will be ongoing, I'm worried they will make her look bad and then not fix the issue, letting it spark the start of her breakdown but then moving on and then leaving the question of her judgment dangling and since this show somehow has implied that Felicity was mean for breaking up with Oliver after all the crap he pulled re his kid, I just am nervous.  

On the bright side, maybe they'd kill off/put on a bus/retire one of the newbies that early into the season. 

I'm also a little concerned about the judgment she's going to face for not agreeing to help Lyla, Oliver and Diggle.  So many minefields.