Spoiler Discussion Thread

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL! Babies on the brain ... I don't think it's Felicity being pregnant (although I have thoughts on that subject I'll share in the Hopes and Fears thread). It might just be a hint on who Prometheus is. Who knows. It's just a niggling feeling although I can't put anything together from the spoilers.

[lemotomato]

In the spirit of memes:

[way2interested]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

It's just a niggling feeling although I can't put anything together from the spoilers.

That sums up my entire feelings post-SDCC. Something is possibly happening, I can feel it, but the actual influence/effect it might have on the season is anyone's guess.

[Sunshine]

Just in case anyone is wondering, I am in the no babies before final season camp!

@apinknightmare Love the meme!

[calliope1975]

It does feel like TPTB are holding something big back. It may be the Flashpoint stuff or something else.

All I know is we need more spoilers or somesuch to leak because I've have had to actually do work while I'm at work lately instead of interacting with this lovely group, and that is unacceptable. 

[Guest]

Olicity babies belong in the last episode of the final season and even then in the very last scene. I suppose I wouldn't begrudge the last few episodes. Haha. I do want O/F to have kids in the sense that I want Oliver to be able to have the family life he wants and be GA at the same time. I just don't want to see Felicity lumbered with a baby for a whole season and more. Sorry!

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of 'shocker' element to 501 but I always just assumed it would be flashpoint? Like the whole episode seems to be normal all systems go and then something happens which the audience immediately knows was caused by flashpoint but the characters don't act any different and then...end episode. Because the main talking point since Flash s2 ended has been whether or not Arrow would be affected by flashpoint and now it's about finding out how and in what ways. There's plenty of talking and hype about whether those changes will stay or whatever.

I feel like I've written the word flashpoint too many times that it's lost all meaning. If only!

Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest

[thegirlsleuth]

I, too, am wondering about the lack of spoilers.  I wondered if they are holding back something big, or if they are in lockdown after last year.  There were some BIG things that were spoiled by accident/paps--Oliver's mayoral run, the fake wedding, and the biggest, Laurel's death.  Particularly with Laurel's death, I think they missed out in the big gotcha and lost control of the narrative about her death because of the spoiler.  I can imagine that might be the reason things have been so hush hush, but I wish they would release some official info or photos because I came out of season four in a negative mindset about the writers and most of my personal speculation about next season borders on the fatalistic.  

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Particularly with Laurel's death, I think they missed out in the big gotcha and lost control of the narrative about her death because of the spoiler.

I am sad that I missed having that OMG they killed Laurel moment. 

[Chaser]

That moment woul have been great but I had a blast theorizing on the board. I was on the Laurel Grave Bandwagon early on so looking for clues and trying I convince people was a lot of fun. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I am sad that I missed having that OMG they killed Laurel moment. 

Same. I was convinced they'd never kill her so I think I would have been really genuinely shocked if we didn't know a death was happening. That flashforward in 401 might have created discussion but it deflated the actual moment because we were all waiting for it to happen, even down to the episode. So badly done.

So yeah, I do want new spoilers but part of me is glad they're keeping things closer to their chests this season.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest

[EmilyBettFan]

Even the engagement was kind of spoiled. LOL

[kismet]

I sometimes feel like I'm the only person that just doesn't care for WM. She's far more diplomatic than MG, but I don't find what she says or expresses to correlate with the show or characters I want. I actually have liked very few of her actual plots & scripts, if any.

As for the holding back on spoilers, I do think there is a possibility they are doing it. So far I've liked 0.5% of what they have leaked, so the Silence is Golden motto & spoiler lock-down is working for me.

I also think that they killed their OMG we killed LL moment, when they decided to set-up a who got killed in the season premiere and then refused to actually build to that mystery. Sorta like who killed SL. It was presented as a great story device and this is going to be so cool. Then it was dropped like a hot potato, while simultaneously killing so much momentum. I expect about the same execution with Flashpoint. Great idea, sucky execution - basically the MO of 99% of Flarrowverse.

Edited September 9, 2016 by kismet

[looptab]

I wouldn't say that they didn't build up the mystery of who's in the grave. I don't think it was conceived as mistery, but anyway,  the hundreds pages of speculation are a proof of that. They pretty much dropped anvils for each of the characters, half the audience fell for the midseason finale's ending - math be damned - and even after the pics of the funeral leaked, even spoiled people kept guessing.

Edited September 9, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

Sad to see Digg's helmet doesn't seem to look all that much better. 

[looptab]

Where would Mr.Terrific be in those pics? I only recognize Stephen and David.

[Velocity23]

The stunt wearing the words Fair Play on his suit. Its a reference to Mr. Terrific.

[looptab]

Oh, okay.  I didn't even notice there was something written there. Thanks :)

[bijoux]

I was hoping it was a Halloween costume or something, but episode 6 will definitely air after it. That's really, really fast for a suit. Maybe not as fast as Thea but it didn't feel that way with her since she was on the show since day 1, I guess, and had intensive months long training with psycho Malcolm.

 

Oh. My. God. Spread out and cover the perimeter. How is it that Oliver and Dig used to do that when they were alone in the field, yet now, with eleventy masks, everyone is holding hands? This is not sound strategy! I hope it's just people standing around as they await their cue and they're not all prancing about together. I had enough of that last season.

Edited September 9, 2016 by bijoux

[apinknightmare]

Getting a cool shot with a bunch of superheroes standing in The Flying V trumps sound strategy!

I wonder if Thea and Felicity are in some kind of trouble, or if the whole gang's on-site for one giant group takedown, and they're off somewhere else. 

Seems like Ragman isn't part of the festivities. He's canonically a superhero, right? At least that's possibly one superhero horde member gone. ETA - never mind, he's there.

Edited September 9, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

I guess i understand the Legacy part of the season. All these newbies are on LLs trajectory and are looking up to her path. Go into the field with little to no experience.

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

Seems like Ragman isn't part of the festivities. He's canonically a superhero, right? At least that's possibly one superhero horde member gone.

Isn't he the last dude on the right in the first photo? There's a masked man next to Spartan and Artemis. It's a class trip. Don't be mean, nobody should be excluded.

[Velocity23]

Important question: which of the newbies gets killed by midseason finale?

[tv echo]

At the "Intro to TV Writing" panel at SDCC 2016 (video posted on page 473 of Social Media thread), Beth Schwartz said: "Well, in the beginning of the season, we sort of map out the entire emotional journey on all the characters, um, so we kind of know where the characters' starts, you know, the middle, their lowest point, and then, you know, where they end up. Sometimes that can change, but, um, usually you know what you want to do with them."

If we are to believe both her and Wendy Mericle, then they already know Oliver and Felicity's individual emotional journeys for the entire season from beginning to end - yet they still don't know how the Olicity relationship is going to end up because, per WM, they're going to follow where the characters lead them?

ETA: If anyone cares, Toby Levins is a 35-year old Australian actor, who's 5'10".

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

They know, they just not telling. The same as they knew who was in the grave when they wrote that FF scene in the s4 premiere.

[tv echo]

More muscles...

[apinknightmare]

28 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Isn't he the last dude on the right in the first photo? There's a masked man next to Spartan and Artemis. It's a class trip. Don't be mean, nobody should be excluded.

Oh, yeah. He is. I missed his hood there. 

Ugh. 

[Morrigan2575]

Damnit, i was really hoping they noobs would start to drop out, i mean do they really need to be in EVERY episode? 

I think that's the only negative  (for me) this season.

32 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Important question: which of the newbies gets killed by midseason finale?

Probably Ragman since he seems to get the least amount of attention. However, i think all but Curtis should go after 509...please just get back to Oliver, Diggle, Thea and Felicity 

[Guest]

Sorry but I think this show focusing on OTA and Thea is a thing of the past. The newbies are here to stay, at least most of them. I think one of them will end up being the big bad tbh. Vigilante?

Shame they're still going out all at the same time instead of splitting up into smaller groups. The four masks walking into the field last season was so annoying and got old very quickly.

Also I'm still shaking my head at them adding more people to the team when it was overcrowded last season. Look at it now! Haha.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

Vigilante isn't one of the noobs (as far as I'm concerned). The noobs are WildDog, Artemis, Ragman and Curtis.  These are the noobs on Team Arrow and only Curtis is a Series Regular so, there's no need for the rest to be in EVERY episode 

Vigilante is being introduced in 507 and, he's the DA that is a Series Regular. Pretty sure Prometheus is the Big Bad, Vigilante is still a question mark but, will probably end up as another Brother Blood (good guy made bad by circumstance, works for/with big bad, has last minute change of heart, dies saving GA)

[apinknightmare]

IIIRC, WM has said that Laurel's last words (the same stuff Diggle and Felicity have been saying to him for years about not going it alone) were going to carry out through what seems like the end of the series? So I kind of got the impression that the days of a smaller team were gone, and that there was going to be a cast of characters in the field in addition to Diggle, Oliver, (and I'm assuming Thea). Maybe not the same masked people from season to season - apart from Curtis - but masked people nonetheless. 

[Guest]

Yeah, I know the big bad is Prometheus. But I wondered if that doesn't turn out to be a Vigilante in the long run. He's still new tbh, at least to me. But each to their own.

Btw, what episode are they filming?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

35 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

IIIRC, WM has said that Laurel's last words (the same stuff Diggle and Felicity have been saying to him for years about not going it alone) were going to carry out through what seems like the end of the series? So I kind of got the impression that the days of a smaller team were gone, and that there was going to be a cast of characters in the field in addition to Diggle, Oliver, (and I'm assuming Thea). Maybe not the same masked people from season to season - apart from Curtis - but masked people nonetheless. 

I'm not opposed to that on principle, it's the prancing in together like targets that drives me up the wall. 

35 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Btw, what episode are they filming?

506. They're supposed to start shooting 507 on Tuesday.

ETA: On the bright side, we know Dig's back on the team and in the field by 506 at the latest.

Edited September 9, 2016 by bijoux

[Chaser]

I just have to point out that Artemis' hair is pulled up and away from her face. I know that the only reason they are doing that is probably because they don't want her look to be too similar to any Canary but I was so impressed to see that. And the mask is black out. I want to see the whole look now. Is it void of buckles?!

[looptab]

Now that is a shocking spoiler!

[Morrigan2575]

54 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

So I kind of got the impression that the days of a smaller team were gone, and that there was going to be a cast of characters in the field in addition to Diggle, Oliver, (and I'm assuming Thea). Maybe not the same masked people from season to season - apart from Curtis - but masked people nonetheless. 

I don't have a problem with masks coming in and out of the show or SC. My problem is them sticking around for every episode. There's no need, IMO. Hell, last season you had 2 Series Regulars (JB and PB) and one Season Long Recurring Character  (NealM) that didn't appear in every single episode.  I expected WildDog/Artemis/Ragman to have an arc and then slowly start to fade out, pop up here and there but, not be in EVERY episode.  So far 2/3 have appeared in every episode from 2-6. That just seems excessive to me.  

That's really my only complaint, it just feels like there's too much of them. Maybe they won't overwhelm the show maybe they have less than 3 minutes of screentime but, it just feels like too much (to me) right now.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

Are we sure they're in all these episodes? They're definitel in 502, maybe 503, and we know now in 506. What do we have about eps 4 and 5 that confirms their presence?

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, bijoux said:

Are we sure they're in all these episodes? They're definitel in 502, maybe 503, and we know now in 506. What do we have about eps 4 and 5 that confirms their presence?

There are spoilers out there which confirm at least some/one of their presence.  WildDog is digging in the dirt with SA for either 4 or 5. 

[bijoux]

Right. I forgot about that. It's an episode Carly Pope is also in, I remember that now. To be frank, I probably forgot a lot of things about these people I haven't seen and have no impression of so far. They tend to blend together.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I wonder if they're writing more of the masks in so Stephen can take the longer time off to be with his family like he asked. Maybe "Arrow" is actually shifting the focus away from him deliberately. Although I'd rather they spend more time with Felicity and Diggle rather than the masks . They're more interesting and I feel they have actually proved they can carry entire episodes on their own, but that's just me.

In David's video interview he said the newbies being out in the field with little to no experience is going to be one of the major points of contention when he gets back. He even compares it with LL/BC and how it got her killed. I don't know if that's David's own take or if the show is actually going to say BC's inexperience led to her death. I kind of doubt it since that would kind of defeat the whole golden statue thing. But I'm sort of snickering that it could be David's head canon about BC :P

[Chaser]

I was hopefully there would be more of a return to OTA but at this point, I think we may just get a 4x03. One episode of Yeah! OGS! and then back to the power rangers.

Seriously tho, four new masks? Seven in total is crazy. My hope for the stunts is at an all time low. 

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Right. I forgot about that. It's an episode Carly Pope is also in, I remember that now. To be frank, I probably forgot a lot of things about these people I haven't seen and have no impression of so far. They tend to blend together.

There are tweets from 504 filming that have Artemis, WildDog and Vigilante (as DA).  504 is also (I believe) when Ragman is introduced.

Then there's the tweet from SA which has WildDog digging in the dirt in 505. Now we have all of them in masks in 506.

So yeah, so far it seems that they're in EVERY episode from 502-506 and most likey 507 since that's when Vigilante shows up.  

I wouldn't complain if it felt like there was a break. If they had the little mini-arc from 502-504 and then 505 focused on Human Target and 506 was something else, then they popped back in for 507, etc. Just seems too much, IMO

Edited September 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

50 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder if they're writing more of the masks in so Stephen can take the longer time off to be with his family like he asked. Maybe "Arrow" is actually shifting the focus away from him deliberately.

I'm pretty sure this is a factor, yes. I've seen this happen in pretty much ever single one-person lead show with a full season, going into S5. Lead asks for better shooting schedule, and showrunners finally realize most humans cannot do 5 seasons of 16 hour hour days 5 days a week ending on a Fraturday night shoot.

[tv echo]

Ragman debuts in 502. Based on spoilers so far...

Artemis - 502, 503, 504, 506
Wild Dog - 502, 504, 505, 506
Ragman - 502, 504, 506

Susan Williams - 503, 505

Adrian Chase - 504, 505
Adrian Chase as the Vigilante - 507

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo
Corrected per posts below.

[way2interested]

I thought that Chase was in at least 504, since that was when RG took a pic with him? Vigilante is in 507, but I think DA makes his first appearance (disregarding the idea that he might be Prometheus) in 504.

Edited September 9, 2016 by way2interested

[tv echo]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I thought that Chase was in at least 504, since that was when RG took a pic with him? Vigilante is in 507, but I think DA makes his appearance in 504/

You're right.  See my edited post above. RG tweeted a pic of himself with JSegarra while 504 was shooting. Also, at HVFF-San Jose, PB mentioned a scene he shot with WH and JSegarra while 505 was shooting.

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[way2interested]

Just now, tv echo said:

You're right.  See my edited post above. RG tweeted a pic of himself with JSegarra while 504 was shooting. Also PB mentioned a scene he recently shot with WH and JSegarra while 505 was shooting.

Right, thanks! I guess I was just too quick in posting.

[bijoux]

17 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Susan Williams - 503

Also 505.

[tv echo]

Actually, @way2interested, your post made me go back and review my episode spoilers compilation more carefully. So, thanks.

Thanks also to @bijoux.  I do have these tweets in my spoilers compilation, but there's just too many spoilers and I was reviewing them too quickly. Ugh!

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Although I'd rather they spend more time with Felicity and Diggle rather than the masks . They're more interesting and I feel they have actually proved they can carry entire episodes on their own, but that's just me.

Agree with this. I get giving SA more free time or whatever, but why don't expand  the existing characters. And I don't even mind the idea of the newbies per se.

Plus, isn't it kind of a contradiction? Yeah, Oliver can totally kick ass on his own, but wait, he needs to learn for the 100th time that he needs people too.

Well, at least we're going to have fun laughing at the shots of the 11 masks.

[Morrigan2575]

41 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm pretty sure this is a factor, yes. I've seen this happen in pretty much ever single one-person lead show with a full season, going into S5. Lead asks for better shooting schedule, and showrunners finally realize most humans cannot do 5 seasons of 16 hour hour days 5 days a week ending on a Fraturday night shoot.

I have no problem with SA cutting back on his hours/screentume but, it begs the question why not push the scenes onto other regulars instead of all these noobs?

I wouldn't complain at all if we had more Diggle/Lyla, Diggle, Felicity, Felicity/Thea, Felicity/Curtis, Lance with all of the above has proven to work well in the past. 

I know WB is pushing to have TV use every possible character/masks they can in order to get tie in money. But man I'd be much happier with Human Target,  Constantine or even Vixen like appearances. Show up for an episode have a self contained story and then bye-bye.  

In between Mask of the Week stories, focus more attention on the other regulars, give them more scenes without Oliver so SA can have days/hours off.  Let's face it, Arrow doesn't know how to write for an ensemble so the more characters they throw in, the less likely any character gets decent development or storylines.

Ok, I'm done venting.