Spoiler Discussion Thread

[quarks]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

But if it's something so obvious, why not just film that scene when they were filming 4x23 instead of going to the trouble and cost to reproduce the set when they're shooting 5x01?

 

 

Well, they don't have to reproduce the set - that's the standing hospital set used by both Arrow and Flash. I can only hope that poor Kara has been warned that should she come into contact with green Kryptonite, she's not going to have a big choice of hospital rooms.

[EmeraldArcher]

@quarks!!

If a KC character appears on Arrow, will you still tell us how she failed as a vigilante/hero/villain/ghost/sister/girlfriend/ADA/human being?  Seriously, your commentary is the only way her cameos will be bearable!

I wonder if KC will also appear on SG in any capacity?  They're tying all 4 shows together in some way with the huge cross-over, so she might infect that show with her presence, too.

[looptab]

3 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Give the dude a break, he was still super freaked out the island picture of doom was IN HER WALLET FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS and he was thinking about how to go about getting a restraining order.

Bwahahahah :D

I liked the trailer. And surprisingly I'm interested in the Superhero High School, so that's good. :)

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Anyone else a bit confused about what they're gonna do with the team of vigilantes once Thea and Diggle come back full time? That's so many people in the bunker. And we thought it was too many when Laurel was there too. Yikes. 

Yeah, I'm not clear about that either. Maybe they'll come and go when needed.

Did they hint at Prometheus presence before during hiatus or am I misremembering?

[wonderwall]

I have to admit. I'm really loving Rick Gonzalez (Wild Dog)! :D I'm excited for him :p

[bijoux]

21 minutes ago, looptab said:

 And surprisingly I'm interested in the Superhero High School, so that's good. :)

I'm really not. I don't care much about the new kids, but GrumpyCatOliver has long been my favorite Oliver. And this is the perfect outlet for him being all, get off my lawn, you pesky kids! That brings me joy. Also bringing me joy? The fact that they're careful about the lair location ans don't bring the kids there until they've earned it, apparently. Unless I missed something, only Curtis is actually there, the training with the other two present takes place in the demolished HIVE lair. Thumbs up.

[looptab]

8 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm really not. I don't care much about the new kids, but GrumpyCatOliver has long been my favorite Oliver. And this is the perfect outlet for him being all, get off my lawn, you pesky kids! That brings me joy.

Yeah, haha, I was talking mainly about that :) And I think you are right about the lair.

[Starfish35]

That is true - I do love GrumpyCatOliver.  Whether it's dealing with Barry, or Ray in Broken Arrow, or whatever. :)  So this could be fun, despite my misgivings about the newbies (less Curtis - I like Curtis).

[kismet]

I'm gonna float alone on my little dingy over here not liking the trailer or the direction of the show. OQ needed partners like Dig & FS to keep him human and on the right path. I loved that he could kick ass on his own in the field. Dig was there because he was talented, but OQ did not need him. I didn't even mind Roy or SL because they were either already trained or comedic hearts of gold that carried their own weight. He did not need a group of youngins to train and have in the field as back-up.

Seriously it's not back up if you have to wipe their bums after they inevitably mess up. I get the desire to not have OQ alone in the field or to see grouchy Old Man OQ. But these youngins are sucking up screen time that could have gone to better & more established characters - or to watching paint dry. I'm so tired with training people. This is worse than a hospital in July, at least the newbies at least graduated medical school in that scenario. Every season a new crop of uselessness - I'm over it.

Also we better get Dig on the Salmon Ladder. I had to watch Curtis attempt it, the least I should get for my pain is Dig on the ladder. I was so distracted by my disappointment, I completely missed the new sleeves :( What's worse is I set my bar very low and still got burnt with boredom. Oh and KC for promoted, so excited for that like walking on broken glass :(

I will say I have been excited by the cast and the social media interaction. But nothing from the interviews or trailers seem to be interesting me. At least I got to see Anatoly (hopefully his role is bumped up) and I least Bratva is guaranteed. I'm hoping for a flashback heavy season.

[pootlus]

...and just when I was about to start catching up with the show (FFing the LL bits) my enthusiasm has a swimming pool of icy water dumped upon it. This is actually depressing.

[Velocity23]

She isnt. She will get tops 3 episodes. And MAtt basically confirmed it.  She only gets paid when she does a cameo. They dont want a repeat of Shannen Doherty from Charmed.

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Velocity23
Forgetful

[Belinea]

So, do they only get paid whenever they appear? And can they also do other things in between?

The vigilante school reminds me a little bit of BtVS in its later season when she trained all those other slayers. 

1 hour ago, pootlus said:

.and just when I was about to start catching up with the show (FFing the LL bits) my enthusiasm has a swimming pool of icy water dumped upon it.

You might not be the only one who feels this way: 

LOWLIGHTS: Arrow misses its target | With diehard fanboys growing tired of the show's island storyline, the season five trailer basically hinted that the introduction of new villain Prometheus (no, not that one) would bring more of the same. Also, that surprising season four death? Yeah, she'll be back. But thanks for the Hamilton serenade just the same.

Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/comic-con-highlights-lowlights-saturday-913992

[Velocity23]

KC didnt get the Barrowman/Wentworth deal. She just has to be available for the time they need her. She only gets paid when they use her in flashback or old scenes for Arrow. And her payment would be down from what she used to get. She most likely gets the Celina/Colin/Rila deal, its just for all 3 shows.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Velocity23

[Chaser]

EBR has a billion rings and it was mega distracting. 

[bijoux]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

EBR has a billion rings and it was mega distracting. 

At least the only distracting thing were her hands. Unlike yesterday, the outfit that was put together made sense and she had a cute necklace. But what is with those rings that are basically at your fingertips? Could someone explain that to me?

I do have a disconect seeing her in something super short and then Willa rocking the Rip Hunter aesthetic basically.

[looptab]

I know there's a lot of stuff and maybe it's not the right time for in-depth discussions - I'm not even all caught up yet - but I don't know how I feel about this 'Oliver kills three people in the premiere' thing. I mean, I  thought last season's deal was that it's okay to kill when necessary - though he had already killed Ra's and that apparently meant nothing? - and the no-kill rule was an impossible extreme, but..this seems to be going too far off in the opposite direction?

What about S2, Tommy, that final conversation with Slade in 223, then? 

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

I know there's a lot of stuff and maybe it's not the right time for in-depth discussions - I'm not even all caught up yet - but I don't know how I feel about this 'Oliver kills three people in the premiere' thing. I mean, I  thought last season's deal was that it's okay to kill when necessary - though he had already killed Ra's and that apparently meant nothing? - and the no-kill rule was an impossible extreme, but..this seems to be going too far off in the opposite direction?

What about S2, Tommy, that final conversation with Slade in 223, then? 

I don't know if you've watched his interview in the press room, but he mentions that it's a his life or theirs situation. So it's not just him going about his day and offing some people along the way. Still, I'm more inclined to connecting that with the flashbacks. It would also give him a leg up with the Bratva.

[Velocity23]

So Felicity will be carrying something as a consequence of the Flashpoint.

[looptab]

No, haven't watched that yet, haha. Okay, so maybe I'm slightly more ok with this. I just hope that they don't lose sight of the whole evolution, that those moments and those realizations of seasons past keep having meaning. 

[Velocity23]

[DeadZeus]

I swear to god... If Oliver lands on his ass every fight in the first episodes and needs this amateur team cuz of that I'll be pretty pissed...

[Velocity23]

[GirlvsTV]

I think I read somewhere that Oliver wasn't doing very well as Mayor because he needed to be GA all the time, so that may be why extra help is needed instead of his skills lacking.

Idk, I haven't really heard anything that makes me excited for this season. And whatever is happening to Olicity in ep. 5 I doubt it is good.

[Starfish35]

I read that too somewhere, something about Stephen saying that Oliver is a "garbage mayor" and that Thea is pretty much having to do all the mayor stuff.  

[Belinea]

I am somewhat afraid that the Flash storyline will somehow mess with Diggle's family life. 

That being said, even if you need a new team: Why do you need to train a teen? It is dangerous to be fighting crime and a teenage girl with no actually experience shouldn't be on top of your list. I just don't get that logic. 

Also I really don't care for Flash impacting Arrow. I said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't watch the Flash, you might have trouble understanding. Therefore it has to be significant yet subtle and somebody probably has to explain stuff to the viewer if they aren't Flash viewers. Good luck with that. 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

So Felicity will be carrying something as a consequence of the Flashpoint.

Dontletitbeababydontletitbeababy. I don't really think it's that, but that popped into my head straight away because of the phrasing.

[Velocity23]

Needs to be something that is caused through the Flashpoint.

[TimetravellingBW]

The biggest problem I have with all these newbies is it's introducing masks for the sake of masks. In the past, characters have been introduced and then become vigilantes (Roy, Thea, Laurel, Ray was borderline). Their presence in the show was justified because of who they were and how they were connected to Oliver. With all the newbies, it's Masks first, Character Second. They're going to be around first and foremost because the Green Arrow needs back-up, not because of emotional connection to Oliver. I cared about Roy because of his relationship with Thea, that he suffered living in the Glades which was a major issue in Season 1 and didn't believe he deserved to live - that was all before his Arsenal arc kicked off. I cared about Thea because she was Oliver's little sister and had gone through a hell of a lot but pulled herself together to run Verdant - again, before she even started training to become Speedy. Why should we care about these newbies? Sure they can introduce their *tragic backstories* and build connections with Oliver but they're still introduced primarily as muscle. People are far more invested in Oliver's established relationships: Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Quentin.

Imo a big reason the show has dropped in quality since Season 1 and 2, is because it lost all the civilian/out of lair/Oliver Queen side of things and became all about the Green Arrow, fighting in the streets and having everyone holed up in Arrow Cave. Adding a bunch of new masks won't add interesting tension or fresh storylines for me. We've already seen Oliver train up sidekicks (Roy, Thea) and struggle with amateurs who think they can fight (Laurel). This feels like it's gonna be more people hitting more stuff.

[Morrigan2575]

I said a while ago that i think they're setting the noobs up for a Teen Titans/ Young Justice spin off and I'm going to stick with that.

I'm also not going to freak out about how much time/appearances they'll get until i see how it plays out.  

ETA: I was out most of yesterday so i may have missed this but, was there any mention of Roy/CH coming back? I've been assuming CH had a done deal when he made that comment but, the TV Guide article came out and WM basically gave the standard "if scheduling allows"  answer.

As for KC/LL - I really don't think she got the same deal as Wentworth/Barrowman.

1) She wasn't at SDCC while the others were brought down (to my knowledge).

2) She barely got a mention at SDCC.

3) Wentworth/Barrowman were signed for a very specific reason, they're the Legion of Doom, Black Siren is not part of that group. 

I'm prepared to be wrong but, i think we've already seen two of her appearances and one (possibly both?) was a previously filmed scene.

If I'm wrong i will admit it but, my gut is saying she's not going to be around much.

As for Flashpoint/Diggle they keep saying it affects him on a personal/family level. DR mentioned Lyla so I'm guessing she's still around. Maybe they're still divorced? Maybe they never got divorced and Baby Sara is much older  (that would clear up some filming issues)?  

Edited July 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

The most I've heard about CH this weekend is that he booked a gig on Scream Queens. I haven't heard anything about him on Arrow.

They better make the 100 episode about Arrow. It started off this Flarrowverses and now happens to have its 100 episode stuck in the Crossover Extravaganza, they better not gloss over it to highlight another show/characters. It's one of the reasons, I was excited last season when people suggested an Olicity wedding, because at it's core that was about Arrow. I don't think that is on the short list anymore. However, it would be nice to have hope that TPTB acknowledge Arrow's 100 episode by being an Arrow episode and not just a Crossover Extravaganza.

I think what makes me bitter about Flashpoint affecting Arrow, is Flash seems to be the only of the 3 shows who's plot gets to takeover the other shows long term and the Arrow & LoT writers actually acknowledge it outside of the crossover. I have never seem Flash acknowledge an Arrow or LoT plot outside of the crossover. Besides a few news blurbs, 1 or 2 FS name drops and insults about GA, you never hear anything about the Arrow/LoT crew on Flash. At this point, the next catastrophic bad guy event either on Arrow or LoT has to stop I want to be CC. Perhaps not as bad as Havenrock, but I want something major to be destroyed in CC during Arrow and Flash has to spend a season or more dealing with it (or however long we have to deal with Flashpoint effects).

[TimetravellingBW]

34 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I said a while ago that i think they're setting the noobs up for a Teen Titans/ Young Justice spin off and I'm going to stick with that.

Ugh, if Arrow has to set up YET ANOTHER SPIN OFF this season I will riot. Forget renaming it Felicity and Friends, they may as well stick "Flarrowverse Launching-Pad!!!" over the title.

[Soulfire]

Maybe Felicity will be carrying the knowledge that flashpoint happened? Everyone else seems to think things are normal, but Barry tells her when she visits Flash.

[JJ928]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

As for KC/LL - I really don't think she got the same deal as Wentworth/Barrowman.

1) She wasn't at SDCC while the others were brought down (to my knowledge).

2) She barely got a mention at SDCC.

3) Wentworth/Barrowman were signed for a very specific reason, they're the Legion of Doom, Black Siren is not part of that group. 

I'm prepared to be wrong but, i think we've already seen two of her appearances and one (possibly both?) was a previously filmed scene.

If I'm wrong i will admit it but, my gut is saying she's not going to be around much.

As for Flashpoint/Diggle they keep saying it affects him on a personal/family level. DR mentioned Lyla so I'm guessing she's still around. Maybe they're still divorced? Maybe they never got divorced and Baby Sara is much older  (that would clear up some filming issues)?  

I agree with you about Katie. I need to watch the panel but unless Marc specifically used the words series regular, I think it's just media sites assuming so. MG and KC both only RT'd articles saying she struck a deal to be on the three shows. Also we know from jbuffy, who broke the news a day early, that MG told her LL was dead and would only be in flashbacks on Arrow. So I'm not concerned over her at all. 

[Primal Slayer]

If KC has  a contract, that said contract probably has a set number since I doubt SAG would allow them to have a contract with no real information. So even if they dont use her, they would still have to pay her a certain amount.

[Velocity23]

Quote

If KC has  a contract, that said contract probably has a set number since I doubt SAG would allow them to have a contract with no real information. So even if they dont use her, they would still have to pay her a certain amount.

Her status on the shows was never released. It sounds more like speculation by the media with what happened with Barrowman and Whenworth. But unlike those two KAtie has no specific role or purpose in those shows that would require her the kind of contract. She gets paid for her appearances.

[Primal Slayer]

Then they would just call her a guest actot who has no real contract. If she is a reoccurring then they would have a set episode amount with the option of more. 

[kismet]

So long as multiple shows are covering her salary, I'm ok with it. At least Arrow doesn't have to foot the entire bill for a useless character. I don't want it, but what can I do? They seem to find her character important and seem to like her. The Flarrowverses PTB seem to have a different mindset than I do on a lot of things.

And the one saving grace that I keep thinking about is the LoT writers were able to make RP/BR a likeable character that I actually rooted for. I never thought that would be a possibility after Arrow S3 or BR's casting. But somehow that writers room can work miracles. I hope they have another one in their back pocket for LL/BC.

[Velocity23]

The EPs just said she is gonna appear in all 3 shows. They didnt say guest, recurring or regular. The media and TV Line ran with regular. Based on prior announcment for the DCTV contracts.

[looptab]

I always find it weird when Stephen or anybody else feels the need to add or specify that Oliver and Felicity are, and interact as "equals", mostly because I've never seen them as anything less. Feels pointless to me.

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab

[Morrigan2575]

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

The EPs just said she is gonna appear in all 3 shows. They didnt say guest, recurring or regular. The media and TV Line ran with regular. Based on prior announcment for the DCTV contracts.

That's my feeling as well. 

[Chaser]

4 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Doesn't sound like she is just giving advice with the way Grant jumped in there.

I hope this isn't going to be a season of guess KCs contract. Again. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

38 minutes ago, looptab said:

I always find it weird when Stephen or anybody else feels the need to add or specify that Oliver and Felicity are, and interact as "equals", mostly because I've never seen them as anything less. Feels pointless to me.

Yeah, they were beating the "partners" and "equals" line pretty hard yesterday because that's Olicity's path to reconciliation. They'll become "true" partners or somesuch, even though that's what they've pretty been since S2 until the BMD.

[Velocity23]

Quote

Doesn't sound like she is just giving advice with the way Grant jumped in there.

they probably want to keep it a secret. And i think Grant wanted to shut down any speculation.

[apinknightmare]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Doesn't sound like she is just giving advice with the way Grant jumped in there.

I wonder if she and Barry are trying to science their way into figuring out how to undo the parts of the timeline that weren't fixed when Barry "undoes" Flashpoint? That would kind of play into what @Soulfire mentioned about Felicity knowing that it happened. 

Quote

I hope this isn't going to be a season of guess KCs contract. Again. 

Unless MG comes out and says, "Katie will appear in episodes one, thirteen, and twenty-three of Arrow in flashbacks for approximately one minute and thirteen seconds per appearance, episodes seven, eight, and nine of The Flash for approximately five minutes and sixteen seconds per appearance, and..." you know it will be!

[looptab]

20 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yeah, they were beating the "partners" and "equals" line pretty hard yesterday because that's Olicity's path to reconciliation. They'll become "true" partners or somesuch, even though that's what they've pretty been since S2 until the BMD.

That's probably all it is. My first uncharitable thought was that Stephen had to reaffirm that no, they're equals, Felicity has not emasculated Oliver! After hearing so much of that narrative.:)

Anyway, I hope this "fight" they have in the premiere is of the good kind, meaning they make up by the end of the episode like in Blast Radius, rather than the S3 kind.

32 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Doesn't sound like she is just giving advice with the way Grant jumped in there.

I hope this isn't going to be a season of guess KCs contract. Again. 

It's guess KC's contract and hair color :D

Hope Feliicty being on the Flash doesn't impact her presence on Arrow.

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab

[Guest]

Felicity will be carrying something with regards to flashpoint? I have no idea what that means. But as she is gonna be on The Flash, I'd probably agree with the idea that she knows about it. 

I'm still pissed this is even up for discussion as I don't even watch Flash, FFS. Ugh.

[kismet]

I wonder if FS turns to BA to undo time and stop Havenrock from happening. I can see FS asking for that and BA turning her down because you know respecting time is so important to him. But when she goes to approach BA she notices something is wrong and helps to bring things back to normal.

[Chaser]

I could see Havenrock having something to do with it. Felicity has intense thoughtful discussion on a show not called Arrow? Yup. Sounds right. Lol

That wording. "Carries". It could be something physical - technology or something. Or it could just be knowledge of events.

I for one am looking forward to that crossover. I enjoy Barry and Felicity's friendship a lot. 

[kismet]

If these multi show contracts work out for the shows & actors, I fully see EBR being able to ink one when they inevitably kill off FS for plot or Arrow ends.

[apinknightmare]

So, seems like Supergirl will somehow come into the Arrowverse (for lack of a better term), since the four-way crossover is only a three parter. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

So, how would this work if Arrow is the middle ep of a three-parter for a four-way crossover? One of the shows is not getting "part" of it? I mean, the cast will show up on the other shows but the show itself won't "host" a crossover? I'm confused.