AyChihuahua July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said: My complaint has always been that after 4x16 they shared little screen time and they acted as if Oliver didn't drop a bomb on their relationship. We also talked about the actors playing the characters as if they were still together if you remember. They used to act married in season 2 as well..I didn't mean it in the romantic sense but in the other aspects of being partners like relying on the other person, worrying, asking for their opinion..stuff like that. That I remember without having to look for the scenes in 17 he went to save her and told her she never has to thank him, in 19 he tried to be there for her, they were together after the funeral, in 20 she didn't let him go to the casino alone, she helped him when he had doubts, when he came back from saving Thea she hugged him and didn't even look at the other two, in 22 he told everyone how highly he thinks about her skills, in 23 they were there to comfort the other every step of the way and in the end she decided to stand by him..they never really put distance between them. I think if you are in love with someone and you act like a couple only without the touching you aren't moving on. There are lots of things that I would change obviously but I can power through a lot if they don't destroy what I like completely. :/ Oh, I didn't think they acted as if they were still together at all. To me they were acting as if they had never been together. Most of their nice moments weren't romantic...I mean he would have said the exact same thing about not thanking him after the underground casino in S1. Would you be okay with either or both of them engaging in a mild flirtation/going on a few dates with someone else? Or is anything with someone else your line in the sand for buying them as each other's great loves? Link to comment
dtissagirl July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 I think they did one bit of set up for Oliver to be aware that he needs to change, but it didn't have any follow through: in the conversation Oliver had with Dig about lying to Lyla re: what happened with Andy. Quote Diggle: Oliver, you're the last person on earth to lecture someone about lying to the people they love. Oliver: I'm not lecturing. I'm worried. You're better than me at this, and you're hurting worse than I have ever seen you. Don't compound that by lying to your wife. The fact that I lied to Felicity does not give me less credibility. If anything, it should tell you that I know what I'm talking about. So Oliver is aware that he really really sucks at sharing/telling the truth, no matter how painful, when he says Dig's better at this than him; and he's aware that his screw up had horrible consequences, and he's trying to stop Dig from making the same mistake he did. That shows me Oliver is, if not changing, at least aware that he needs to. It's just super weird because he should be having this type of conversation with Felicity for a reconciliation arc to have any kind of narrative punch, but as pretty much everything related to O/F after 420 [which was 100% ALL SET UP for a reconciliation], it doesn't go anywhere at all. And this bugs me because I don't understand why they did all the narrative prelims necessary for a climax, but then had Oliver and Felicity turn away from each other and fall asleep instead of having sex. #badmetaphors! 16 Link to comment
Midnight Lullaby July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said: Oh, I didn't think they acted as if they were still together at all. To me they were acting as if they had never been together. Most of their nice moments weren't romantic...I mean he would have said the exact same thing about not thanking him after the underground casino in S1. Would you be okay with either or both of them engaging in a mild flirtation/going on a few dates with someone else? Or is anything with someone else your line in the sand for buying them as each other's great loves? Yes, I would be okay with them going on a few dates or flirting with someone else and at the end realizing they can't move on..I wouldn't be okay with them being in a relationship with someone else because at that point if they can committ and be happy with someone else they can be with that random person for good for me. 1 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said: Yes, I would be okay with them going on a few dates or flirting with someone else and at the end realizing they can't move on..I wouldn't be okay with them being in a relationship with someone else because at that point if they can committ and be happy with someone else they can be with that random person for good for me. I really don't think an actual relationship is likely. That would somewhat surprise me. (On a normal show it would shock me, but this is Arrow, sooooooooooo.....) I'm going to hope for dtissagirl's scenario, that the reporter or whoever hits on him, and he runs to Felicity like his hair's on fire. 2 Link to comment
tangerine95 July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 I think they also think they set up Oliver changing or at realizing he should.I don't think they made it look like Felicity is somehow at fault. Imo they tried to make it more complicated than just Oliver screwing up by also connecting her issues with Oliver to her issues with her parents.Like that whole people can't change thing coming from her mom's experience with Noah. But I think for me at least Felicity had such a good reason for breaking up with Oliver that trying to connect it to anything other than he lied for months because his one night stand from 10 years ago asked him to, falls flat. But they had Oliver admit he was wrong to lie in that scene with Diggle and advise him not to make the same mistake so I was okay with it because they didn't have Oliver consider himself totally right for lying and the show admits he did. Really all that was left to do was have Oliver and Felicity to talk each other.Imo everything else was set up for a reunion.So I'm not really sure why they chose to delay it until next season.I think it's weird to have them alone together for 5 months and they don't get back together or at least talk about their relationship. Part of me thinks they did it so they don't get back together a few episodes after Laurel died but then again these are the people who had her mention olicity on her deathbed and in basically every scene she shared with Oliver this season so I'm not sure they would care. 8 Link to comment
DrSpaceman10 July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 I don't know, Arrow's never really done only flirting and a few dates. Even with McKenna (a short-lived relationship) Oliver told her he would move to Coast City (?) for her. I guess the most casual "relationship" would be Isabel, but he still slept with her (and that was gross on a whole bunch of levels). Link to comment
looptab July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said: If I got what I wanted in this show Malcolm would be long dead, Tommy would be alive, S3 would never have happened, Laurel would have died in the Pilot, Moira would be alive, Walter would be at least recurring, Thea would have left for a realllllly long European vacation years ago, Roy would be around, Digg would have skipped his very own angst-fest, etc. What do I need to do to watch this show? :D Edited July 1, 2016 by looptab 7 Link to comment
tv echo July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 (edited) I'm never sure whether it's too spoilerish to post tweets by new cast members in the Social Media thread, so I'm posting these here.. Edited July 1, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
lemotomato July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 SA did a short, impromptu Q&A on twitter last night. The only spoilery thing he said was this: (The question was "What do you look forward to the most in season 5?") Link to comment
Guest July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, lemotomato said: SA did a short, impromptu Q&A on twitter last night. The only spoilery thing he said was this: (The question was "What do you look forward to the most in season 5?") Wow. I'm not sure I know how to contain my excitement. It's just in abundance right now. *looks into the camera like I'm on The Office* Link to comment
wonderwall July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 Just now, Angel12d said: Wow. I'm not sure I know how to contain my excitement. It's just in abundance right now. *looks into the camera like I'm on The Office* 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 Fingers crossed one of them is Malcolm! 8 Link to comment
lemotomato July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 If he's implying that killing is going to become a regular thing again, I hope he's referring to flashbacks. It's one thing to kill the Big Bads at the end of the season because there's no other way to stop them, but I'd have issues with Oliver reverting back to his season 1 MO of executing the villain of the week and his minions, especially when he's supposed to be Mayor at his day job. 3 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva July 1, 2016 Share July 1, 2016 He's probably referring to the flashbacks but I'm not going to be too bothered if he kills some very, very bad people in the present, too. I want Oliver to realize he can kill without succumbing to the darkness. That sometimes killing is the only option (as it was with the original Count Vertigo). And I really want him to fully realize this balance sooner rather than later (Hmm, might suggest this as a 100 Olicity Wishes to a friend). 4 Link to comment
Guest July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 2 hours ago, wonderwall said: The likeness is incredible. Link to comment
HighHopes July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) So now we have six new characters (Five men and one woman), and yet they can't even give the focus that is needed to their existing characters. (Also having Cody Rhodes on the show is completely 100% Amell's idea. The EPs really need to stop listening to him and using his ideas). Edited July 2, 2016 by HighHopes 6 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 THANK THE LORDS IT'S ONLY A GUEST STAR ROLE. 6 Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 25 minutes ago, HighHopes said: (Also having Cody Rhodes on the show is completely 100% Amell's idea. The EPs really need to stop listening to him and using his ideas). You know, not necessarily. I mean, I'm sure he had input, but a lot of fans have asked for this over the past year - on his FB page, at cons. Don't really know why they would listen to it, though. Unless the network hopes for a little bump in ratings? Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 1 minute ago, Angel12d said: This is turning into a real sausage-fest. Meh it's only a guest star role... But then again they still have to cast the Jewish guy so... 2 Link to comment
Guest July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, wonderwall said: Meh it's only a guest star role... But then again they still have to cast the Jewish guy so... I'm not just referring to Cody Rhodes though, who I really couldn't give a crap about tbh. We've had one female cast. Or two if I'm including Artemis. That's it. Edited July 2, 2016 by Guest Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 I read that article from TVline and realized I had forgotten about half of those people. Who are the new regulars again? Also, LOL at them giving SA an Honorable Mention in Performer of the Week for his performance at WWE..have they ever mentioned him for his performance on Arrow? Link to comment
HighHopes July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, looptab said: You know, not necessarily. I mean, I'm sure he had input, but a lot of fans have asked for this over the past year - on his FB page, at cons. Don't really know why they would listen to it, though. Unless the network hopes for a little bump in ratings? Have fans been asking for it? I haven't seen any- but I don't pay attention to his FB page much or what is asked at cons. I feel like this is one of those things that they network/eps/etc should have just ignored. It doesn't make much sense at all aside from Amell wanting a rematch (or whatever) IMO. Amell could have pushed for it tho, backing it up by saying that the fans want it. 1 Link to comment
tarotx July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 Flash had a Wrestler as a Villain in their season 2 premiere. Link to comment
HighHopes July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 Just now, tarotx said: Flash had a Wrestler as a Villain in their season 2 premiere. Adam Copeland has a regular gig on Haven, and his character/acting is actually pretty good. But I doubt the same will be true for all wrestlers. Especially one that probably is only going to be on the show because of an ongoing "feud" between him and one of its stars. Cody could prove me completely wrong though, but at the moment I doubt it. 4 Link to comment
Midnight Lullaby July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 Some fans have been asking for it because they knew it would please SA. Or at least that's the strong suspicion I got reading some comments on his FB page. I don't believe for one second he would have been cast without SA pushing for him. 5 Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HighHopes said: Have fans been asking for it? I haven't seen any- but I don't pay attention to his FB page much or what is asked at cons. I feel like this is one of those things that they network/eps/etc should have just ignored. It doesn't make much sense at all aside from Amell wanting a rematch (or whatever) IMO. Amell could have pushed for it tho, backing it up by saying that the fans want it. I don't disagree. :) Yeah, I've seen it often - and honestly never in a million years would I have thought they'd do it. It is quite possible you're right, tho. If he didn't want to do it, this wouldn't happen, so he might have pushed for it. Edited July 2, 2016 by looptab 1 Link to comment
kismet July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 A little off topic of Rhodes, he's a blip of whatever for me. But related to other spoiler tweet about the villain. I think I figured out why I'm not happy about the s5 villain being somebody that comes out of what OQ or TA has done to the city. Since s1, all he has done is try to save the city at great personal cost to himself. Yes bad things have happened but its not all his fault. Tell me show what has he done since his return that warrants a villain just fo his actions? I fail to see how he is directly responsible for the rise of a villain. I'm tired of the writers making OQ/TA responsible/guilty of every bad thing that happened. I'm over it. Flash destroys his world 2 years in a row & gets celebrated. MM literally blew up SC, murdered SL, blackmailed TA, corrupted TQ, was helping bring about genocide with Hive and he gets a redemption arc. What does OQ have to do to get some respect and love on his own show? Perhaps its all a misdirection and MM will be the one the villain goes after, with TA stuck in the crosshairs. Which would be fitting and overdue. But I doubt it. I wouldn't even mind if the s5 villain came out of the bad things that OQ did as Bratva. But to link villain back to how OQ/TA has failed the city post-island is preposterous and slightly disrespectful to the hero of the story. 8 Link to comment
tarotx July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 21 minutes ago, HighHopes said: Adam Copeland has a regular gig on Haven, and his character/acting is actually pretty good. But I doubt the same will be true for all wrestlers. Especially one that probably is only going to be on the show because of an ongoing "feud" between him and one of its stars. Cody could prove me completely wrong though, but at the moment I doubt it. And Rhodes just retired but the network and casting team have hired wrestlers so it's not a shock that they would take the chance here. We are talking about a guest star for episode 3. It's about press and little more. 2 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, kismet said: I think I figured out why I'm not happy about the s5 villain being somebody that comes out of what OQ or TA has done to the city. Since s1, all he has done is try to save the city at great personal cost to himself. Yes bad things have happened but its not all his fault. Tell me show what has he done since his return that warrants a villain just fo his actions? I fail to see how he is directly responsible for the rise of a villain. I'm tired of the writers making OQ/TA responsible/guilty of every bad thing that happened. I'm over it. I can somewhat see it... All the terrorist activities only happen after the Arrow turns up? I can see people blaming the Arrow for that especially if Starling was relatively peaceful before... I can also see people only viewing TAs failures, thus blaming everything on them, blaming them for not being able to stop the earthquake machine, Slade's attack, etc. It makes sense to me because sometimes people need to blame something or someone regardless of whether it's fair or not. For example, if this new villain guy lost his family because of said terrorist activities? I can see why they'd be bitter against Team Arrow. They saved so many people, why couldn't they save his family? It's not fair. But vigilantes will always have its own set of critics, and some of said critics could lean towards psychotic... You never know 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) My favorite scenario is S1 robot vigilante Oliver killed someone in this guy's life. Maybe the guy's brother/father/uncle was one of the minions Oliver offed to get to the one percenters he was targeting. Because for a Bratva storyline to mean anything, they need to reference S1 robot killer Oliver somehow. Bratva made that dude exist. Except he hasn't existed since episode 123. So a callback to S1 Oliver feels necessary to me. Edited July 2, 2016 by dtissagirl 9 Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) What if he's not related to the big season finale disasters, but just someone related to someone Oliver's killed - and he didn't need to? Oops @dtissagirl, just saw your post :) Edited July 2, 2016 by looptab 1-Jinx;2: so many "someone" :D 3 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 1 minute ago, looptab said: What if he's someone who's not related to the big season finale disasters but just someone related to someone Oliver's killed - and he didn't need to? This would be MUUUUCH more interesting 3 Link to comment
foreverevolving July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 1 hour ago, wonderwall said: Meh it's only a guest star role... But then again they still have to cast the Jewish guy so... Okay seriously.. What Jewish character? have I missed a casting notice? 1 Link to comment
kismet July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 If they link it back to killerOQ or BravaOQ, a revenge plot then that's another story. Besides my bitterness and distrust of the writers, I'm going to try to withhold my judgement of the storyline. Because the way its being described now i think is crappy storytelling. And in my head, the writers giving credence to a character like what they describe. is similar to people saying that Havenrock is FS fault and she is responsible and should held accountable for their deaths. It bypasses a lot of cause/effect, logic and facts. It's attacking the symptoms and not the actual disease. There are crazy people that do that. I just wish the writers found a better story or character to focus on. 3 Link to comment
tarotx July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 I think Oliver will have to face a version of himself - Someone who wants to save his city in a somewhat criminal way. This version will be more evil at the end of the season probably because he won't have a Felicity, Diggle or even a Thea there helping him see right from wrong. 5 Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 10 minutes ago, kismet said: If they link it back to killerOQ or BravaOQ, a revenge plot then that's another story. Besides my bitterness and distrust of the writers, I'm going to try to withhold my judgement of the storyline. Because the way its being described now i think is crappy storytelling. And in my head, the writers giving credence to a character like what they describe. is similar to people saying that Havenrock is FS fault and she is responsible and should held accountable for their deaths. It bypasses a lot of cause/effect, logic and facts. It's attacking the symptoms and not the actual disease. There are crazy people that do that. I just wish the writers found a better story or character to focus on. Not really. Oliver killed with the intention of killing. 1 Link to comment
calliope1975 July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, tarotx said: I think Oliver will have to face a version of himself - Someone who wants to save his city in a somewhat criminal way. This version will be more evil at the end of the season probably because he won't have a Felicity, Diggle or even a Thea there helping him see right from wrong. I think that would be really interesting. What would Oliver have become without Digg and Felicity? How does he reconcile his probable future with his actual future, and how does he condemn someone who is who he could have been? I need to lower my expectations! Edited July 2, 2016 by calliope1975 6 Link to comment
bijoux July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 This casting is really no big deal IMO. Oliver needs someone to beat up, it may as well be this guy. Also, the fact that this is announced at a con, and not a big one, mind you, tells me how (in) significant his role is going to be. All the other casting news has been shared by the network, there was an official write-up on one entertainment news site or other. 4 Link to comment
kismet July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 22 minutes ago, looptab said: Not really. Oliver killed with the intention of killing. Well in some minds killing is killing. And he rarely killed with the intention of killing. It was to protect himself or his loved ones. It was to the greater good. There wasn't one kill by OQ in s1 that was done for the sake or intention of killing. Link to comment
dtissagirl July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 WHAT. He killed a crap ton of rando minions with no name just to get to the villain of the week. That wasn't protecting anyone nor his secret, that was him being a killing machine soldier on a mission. He had 100% intention of killing those dudes. Someone did a compilation video of Oliver's kills in S1, the total is 67 people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ARZCQR3gg 7 Link to comment
looptab July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, kismet said: Well in some minds killing is killing. And he rarely killed with the intention of killing. It was to protect himself or his loved ones. It was to the greater good. There wasn't one kill by OQ in s1 that was done for the sake or intention of killing. Pilot. Thug: You don't have to do this. Oliver: No one can know my secret.*snaps neck* Edited July 2, 2016 by looptab 2 Link to comment
kismet July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 Those deaths were a means to ends. He wasn't a killer. He was just a guy who happened to kill people necessary to achieve the goal of taking down the greater bad. Those minions put theselves in the line of fire by working with the bad guys. Sometimes people die in war. He was a soldier on a mission not a killer. For me a killer is someone who seeks out people to kill because they enjoy killing. But I'm done discussing this because I've been on this board long enough to know that we are just gonna talk in circles. And my opinion still stands that I don't think anything he's done in the present day warrants a villain coming after TA or OQ, especially considering the Arow died in s3. An opportunistic crime lord, cliche but fine. A lost & misdirected person mourning a loss and turning to revenge, its been done on the show multiple times. And if they're gonna do that I prefer it be directed at the real bads like MM. 2 Link to comment
Midnight Lullaby July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) Most killers have a justification that makes it fine for them, but unless you act in self defense to save yourself or others it isn't justifiable because human life >>>> whatever personal goal you are trying to achieve. It's no coincidence during war it's applied a different law than in the everyday life. Oliver isn't a soldier and the war was only in his head. Also he could have injured people that could have ended up in jail instead of killing..because I get that they weren't great people but they were still people, they probably had loved ones at home and they could have redeemed themselves if given the chance. Edited July 2, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby 8 Link to comment
dtissagirl July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 (edited) I think this has the potential to be a fascinating storyline for *Oliver*. He never suffered any consequence for the anons he killed in S1. Regardless of intention, he killed all those people. Those are his crimes, and other people covered for him, and kept him out of jail, and Roy sacrificed himself so that Oliver didn't have to pay for those crimes in the justice system. And I know [in my bones!] that Oliver isn't that person anymore, but it poses an immense conflict for him if one of his crimes comes back to bite him in the ass. He moved on from that, which is great for him [and for me in the audience], but he's now the fucking Mayor of the city, and chances are real that a few of the citizens he governs over *lost loved ones* that he himself killed. It doesn't matter that he killed crooks -- those crooks' families still loved them, and lost them to a crazy masked vigilante who put arrows through people's hearts a lot. They don't care that Oliver was on a mission to save the city. And now he's their Mayor. The set up looks insanely promising to me if one of those people is now up to no good as a dangerous crime lord. Edited July 2, 2016 by dtissagirl 20 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 24 minutes ago, kismet said: Those deaths were a means to ends. He wasn't a killer. He was just a guy who happened to kill people necessary to achieve the goal of taking down the greater bad. Imo what makes a killer is just the act of taking someone's life regardless of intent. Are all killers sociopaths? No, some kill for the greater good and some kill because it's necessary... Oliver is a killer, Diggle, Laurel, Thea, Sara are all killers and Felicity helps them kill. The fact of the matter is, Oliver killed a lot of people in season 1. This might've been justifiable kills for Oliver, but whoever he killed possibly had family members or friends or people who they were close to who hate Oliver for taking their loved one away from them... 1 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 2 hours ago, foreverevolving said: Okay seriously.. What Jewish character? have I missed a casting notice? Any scoop on Arrow Season 5? —Alamin Thank you so much for asking about Arrow, which follows the derring-do of a costumed crimefighter! In addition to the recently cast series regular role of DA Adrian Chase and the vigilante known as Wild Dog, Season 5 will also introduce us to the recurring character of Derek Zaba, a man of fierce intelligence whose wit and humor belie a person wrestling with deep-seated demons. Derek looks to his Jewish faith to ground himself, having been raised in a devout family, and while usually kind and well-meaning, he also can come off as a physical threat. (He sounds very Russian flashback-y, yes?) - TVLINE :) 3 Link to comment
foreverevolving July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 18 minutes ago, wonderwall said: Any scoop on Arrow Season 5? —Alamin Thank you so much for asking about Arrow, which follows the derring-do of a costumed crimefighter! In addition to the recently cast series regular role of DA Adrian Chase and the vigilante known as Wild Dog, Season 5 will also introduce us to the recurring character of Derek Zaba, a man of fierce intelligence whose wit and humor belie a person wrestling with deep-seated demons. Derek looks to his Jewish faith to ground himself, having been raised in a devout family, and while usually kind and well-meaning, he also can come off as a physical threat. (He sounds very Russian flashback-y, yes?) - TVLINE :) Thank you! 2 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 1 hour ago, wonderwall said: ... recurring character of Derek Zaba, a man of fierce intelligence whose wit and humor belie a person wrestling with deep-seated demons. Fierce intelligence? Wit and humor? Yikes, not seeing that at all in Cody Rhodes. God, please let it not be him. 1 Link to comment
wonderwall July 2, 2016 Share July 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said: Fierce intelligence? Wit and humor? Yikes, not seeing that at all in Cody Rhodes. God, please let it not be him. Thankfully Stephen described him as a "Guest" and not "Recurring" which is what this character has been specified as Link to comment
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