Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I'd be fine with Thea really going evil and trying to kill Oliver, Oliver accepting that she's evil now and her dying at the end of the season. But that isn't what a dark-Thea arc would be. It'd be a whole NOTHER season of Oliver doing ANYTHING TO SAVE THEA and Thea being all wishy-washy over killing her brother or betraying her father and OMG I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE. If it's just the one episode, fine. Even if she's brainwashed or really has a mental break that makes her decide to chill with the dudes who actually DID set in motion her boring-ass boyfriend's death, fine. I've already accepted that she is tremendously, tremendously stupid. But I can't take it bleeding into next season and Oliver angsting about it. WE ALREADY DID THIS, A SHITLOAD OF TIMES.

[nksarmi]

If Thea isn't faking or brainwashed - I'm out. If she's brainwashed again - joy! - maybe someone will finally f-ing kill Malcolm for messing with her head so much. Or maybe she'll just leave town to go find herself away from all this crap (Felicity probably can make a fake ID that Malcolm can't track). Or she can go be an Argus agent, but enough with "Oliver has to save Thea's soul" shit. I won't watch - I swear to God, I won't.

[Morrigan2575]

I can't tell if they really have no idea what to do with Thea or are just so enamored with Malcom that they keep sacrificing Thea so Malcolm remains relevant.

Seriously giving me bad reminderd of Smallville 

[Genki]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

Also, wouldn't there be a panic after everyone and their mother realizes that someone just threw a nuclear bomb on a city. Wouldn't governments be all over this, news and other forms of media? Is everyone just going about their day while Oliver saves his sister? Because she isn't exactly unsafe and while she is captured (which is bad) she isn't going to die like the whole planet will. So that doesn't matter more?

Wasn't there scenes of rioting/looting filmed for the finale, (where Oliver gives a speech, which I assume that will be him leading and generating hope in people so that he can counter Dark's magic)?

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Belinea said:

Just looking at Thea's storyline really makes me wonder whether they have any idea what to do with her. I mean, she should be a capable fighter yet she is the damsel even more often than Felicity. Oliver always has to save his sister. I am generally bored by this storyline. Also I am bored by the notion that you have to cramp everything in the last 4 episodes. They storylines become so rushed and it is never really all that complete. Don't they have time to establish all these characters and their problems? And why does DD want to kill everyone. Because he is evil? Is there a reason and I missed it?

BTW: Is Curtis on holiday?

Yes I do think Curtis (CuH) is on Holiday. Convenient for plot, but it gave us the OTA caper so he can extend his holiday. But I know that won't happen. Also agree that I am tired of them jamming everything into the final episodes.

As for Thea -

I really think the writers have no idea... she is the new LL to them. Because let's face it, they barely knew what to do with her before. TQ was always a chess piece transferred between the Queens and Merlyns; and when Merlyn was not available all of the sudden IR had beef with TQ for breaking her wrist as a child. The only difference is once MQ died, OQ took up the mantle. They really need to flesh out her character as more that just a family member that can be used for another family member's storyline. When they had junior TA it did work a little, but then they had her being a brat and that did not work. There homework over the summer should be to find something for TQ to do. 

I think I would love to see TQ hang up the hood for s5 and do something else in the city. Perhaps if FS starts a company, TQ can be her manager and help run the day to day of the company while FS & CuH handle the science part of it. TQ does have managerial experience. That way she can help keep the company afloat during TA stressful times. Then perhaps TQ can be called in when needed, sorta like a Per-Diem Vigilante. Bonus to this scenario, we would have to have FS/TQ scenes more frequently.

As for damseling, FS is almost never damseled on the show - which is the one thing I like. LL was damseled almost every week for 2-3yrs, without her on the show my fear is that the writers will default TQ into that damsel role. She seems to get the LL's scraps and they have damseled her quite frequently as well. I just hope it doesn't become a weekly occurrence.

And I don't really care for Evil TQ, that just is a retread of previous seasons - plus I don't think it will work. OQ loves his sister too much. I don't see that good v. evil sibling rivalry working like it would have with Tommy. If they wanted evil, they should have just turned LL or never killed TM - either way Im glad they abandoned this plot line and hope it stays dead.

[tarotx]

Oh well. I still have hope that the Thea scenes are more than they appear but I like to be positive. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by tarotx

[lemotomato]

The stills make me think that Thea turning against Oliver really is just a ruse, since it looks like she's only holding a gun at him when MM is next to her, but in another pic she's got MM's quiver and bow. 

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

The stills make me think that Thea turning against Oliver really is just a ruse, since it looks like she's only holding a gun at him when MM is next to her, but in another pic she's got MM's quiver and bow. 

Yep. Just what I thought. Seeing Malcolm and the Ghosts there puts things into a different perspective. If it appears like Thea is threatening Oliver, they likely won't. And they would go through with the threat. Plus, it gets Thea's hands on a weapon.

[way2interested]

I'm just confused as to how this is playing out, if Thea is brainwashed. You've got Thea (or more likely, Malcolm) contacting the team that she's been kidnapped. Then you have Thea probably being force-fed those pills and Oliver and Diggle coming just in time for essentially Malcolm to sic her on them. Then she threatens to shoot Oliver, but then somewhere along the line she steals or takes Malcolm's bow and quiver to keep battling Oliver. Then, at some point, Oliver's has to beat her or somehow get away and completely leave her to go back to the surface. It just doesn't seem too cut and dry to me, since the only options seem to be that Oliver gives up and Diggle and Oliver leave Thea there or Oliver knocks her out and they take her with them out of there, and (although the latter seems likely) neither feels quite right.

Although, it is mostly just my selfish feelings because of I love when the characters have weapons in civvies.

Edited May 12, 2016 by way2interested

[bijoux]

I actually don't think she's fighting Oliver when she's got the quiver. I think she's fighting alongside him to get out.

[way2interested]

Just now, bijoux said:

I actually don't think she's fighting Oliver when she's got the quiver. I think she's fighting alongside him to get out.

Oh, I do think that it might actually be a ruse, just like you and lemotomato do, but I was just expressing my confusion if otherwise was true. If Thea is brainwashed, I would find it hard to believe that the scene would extend further from Thea threatening Oliver with a gun to Thea fighting Oliver outside with Malcolm's bow and quiver. I like the idea of it being a ruse a lot more, and I think it would make a lot more sense given that there's only one episode left after this and that they've all got to get back up to the surface at some point.

[Guest]

Let's hope this Thea stuff is just a ruse then. That would be okay. I'd like her to trick Malcolm into thinking she was coming round to his way of thinking and then BAM. I'd like her to kill him too but we can't always get what we want. Sigh.

[AyChihuahua]

I think there's a decent change it's a ruse, if the queen/pawn thing was foreshadowing. With a normal tv show it would be, but with this one, it's as likely to be lampshading that goes absolutely nowhere. I'm only saying I'll be pissed IF this is the beginning of yet another arc Thea/Thea's soul being in danger and Oliver dropping everything to save her. If it's not, if it's something cool like her tricking her father and saving the day, I'll love it.

[looptab]

Do we know when Cooper is appearing, if in 422 or 423? This is probably just wishful thinking on my part - considering it would be the penultimate episode of the season and if there's a point to the flashbacks at all, they most definitely are bound to make it in this remaining two eps - but I couldn't help but think that it would be nice if Cooper was actually back for some Felicity flashbacks, rather than in present time. As some kind of parallel between some significant episode in Felicity's past as a hacktivist and what just happened and her dealing with it.

Wishful thinking, I know. :/

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, looptab said:

Do we know when Cooper is appearing, if in 422 or 423? This is probably just wishful thinking on my part - considering it would be the penultimate episode of the season and if there's a point to the flashbacks at all, they most definitely are bound to make it in this remaining two eps - but I couldn't help but think that it would be nice if Cooper was actually back for some Felicity flashbacks, rather than in present time. As some kind of parallel between some significant episode in Felicity's past as a hacktivist and what just happened and her dealing with it.

Wishful thinking, I know. :/

Yeah, I think it's highly unlikely that we'll be getting any Felicity flashbacks at this point given that things are finally supposed to be "heating up" on the island. 

[tv echo]

I have no spoilers that Cooper will appear in an upcoming episode - other than a rumor that Nolan Funk was spotted filming in Vancouver.  If anyone has a source for something more substantial, please post. Thx.

[looptab]

Oh, I thought it was a given that he was coming back. I don't know, I was going by that bit of info.

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, I think it's highly unlikely that we'll be getting any Felicity flashbacks at this point given that things are finally supposed to be "heating up" on the island. 

I'm so looking forward to it! Dumb flashbacks. Ugh.

[Guest]

If Cooper does come back, we'll probably just see him at one of those HIVE computers or something. (I actually thought we'd see a quick shot of him in 421 tbh.) I doubt it will be anything more. 

Also, is the next episode where Donna finds out what Felicity does on Team Arrow? Because she's in the loft while Noah and Curtis are there clearly trying to hack...things. LOL.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Guest

[way2interested]

42 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also, is the next episode where Donna finds out what Felicity does on Team Arrow? Because she's in the loft while Noah and Curtis are there clearly trying to hack...things. LOL.

I guess so, and I'm kind of excited for the scene, ngl. She looks pretty concerned, and the fact that her ex is even in the room when she's finding out probably does not help things.

But I am wondering why they are at the loft hacking things at all, especially when someone here brought up the idea that if HIVE/Darhk know that Rubicon was halted that it wouldn't take too much to find out who did it and send people to kill Noah and Felicity again. However, this time they are in an open loft with no one to protect them, but maybe they just went there to rest after trying to save the world for an entire day, since Felicity was carrying a blanket in one pic and Noah has a Palmer Tech sweatshirt on. Not to mention how they made such a big deal about how they needed Palmer Tech's equipment in the first place, so what are they even trying to do at the loft?  

[looptab]

Is there a spoiler about Donna finding out or is it just speculation? I think she'll find out as well, but I don't remember if we have something about it.

I'm guessing they are at the loft because Felicity doesn't want to bring her dad in the ArrowCave, though  the lack of fighters nearby does seem shortsighted.

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, given Ra's and Vandal Savage have dropped by the loft before, the loft doesn't exactly spell out safe and secure location - it's definitely disconcerting to see the nerd squad working on saving the world unprotected in the loft.

Edited May 13, 2016 by ComicFan777

[looptab]

Maybe there's Lyla upstairs, surveiling the area with her bazooka. They're going to be fine.:)

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, looptab said:

Is there a spoiler about Donna finding out or is it just speculation? I think she'll find out as well, but I don't remember if we have something about it.

It was purely speculation because I wondered how else Felicity would explain her father being there and what they're clearly working on. 

Also I didn't even consider that they're left completely unprotected. But I'm sure Lyla is nearby anyway! Plus Curtis will probably turn into a ninja if anything happened. He can do everything, you know. ;P

Edited May 13, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

They do need to show how Terrific he is!

[ComicFan777]

...maybe Felicity tells Donna that Noah got himself into trouble with some bad guys and she's bailing Noah out...and of course, she needs Mr. Terrific's help, too, because he can do anything and everything...

Even though Donna's got BS radar, but she might overlook Felicity's half-truth and focus on her overwhelming disdain for Noah.

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said:

Yeah, given Ra's and Vandal Savage have dropped by the loft before, the loft doesn't exactly spell out safe and secure location - it's definitely disconcerting to see the nerd squad working on saving the world unprotected in the loft.

But they have to DO ANYTHING TO SAVE THEA OMG! They can't worry about a piddly little thing like saving, what are we at now, 6.5 billion people? Not to mention dogs and ducks and foxes and seals, etc.? I mean, Thea's not in immediate physical danger, since she'd actually survive the coming nuclear apocalypse, but she could, like, feel uncomfortable or get a hangnail or something, and Oliver will DO ANYTHING TO SAVE THEA FROM GETTING A HANGNAIL, OMG!

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Oliver will DO ANYTHING TO SAVE THEA FROM GETTING A HANGNAIL, OMG!

Hey now. Those can be really painful!

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, looptab said:

I'm guessing they are at the loft because Felicity doesn't want to bring her dad in the ArrowCave, though  the lack of fighters nearby does seem shortsighted.

Letting Noah know about Curtis' involvement doesn't seem like the smartest choice either, really. Who's to say he won't use him similarly to how he did Roy in the future?

As for Donna, I particularly enjoy a shot of her with a beer bottle. I guess she just decides to say, oh, screw it, at some point.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Letting Noah know about Curtis' involvement doesn't seem like the smartest choice either, really. Who's to say he won't use him similarly to how he did Roy in the future?

He's not really involved in anything at this point, though. Maybe she just tells him that he's a friend and was her employee at PT who can help them out? There must be a reason why he gets called over there - perhaps they need some tech from him?

[bijoux]

Sure, but it still lets Noah aware of Curtis being an asset. I don't think it's wise to let him in on that.

[AyChihuahua]

I think Curtis has a beer in one of the pics, too.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

Sure, but it still lets Noah aware of Curtis being an asset. I don't think it's wise to let him in on that.

I think she might not be so worried about things like that if it's a decision between bringing him into the fold, or not stopping whatever Darhk has planned. And Noah was at the presentation for the power cell - he already knows that Curtis is someone who has tech savvy, so Felicity calling him in on a professional basis doesn't necessarily give Noah any indication that he helps the team. 

I mean, it's highly likely that she does let him know those things, but Curtis just being present at the loft doesn't indicate that. 

[bijoux]

It's the end of the world. I can understand and support going for the booze.

Apparently, CR is dropping hints about Oliver and Felicity getting back together. I don't know how specific it is, I think everyone expects them to at one point.

Seems she definitely said this season.

Edited May 13, 2016 by bijoux

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, bijoux said:

It's the end of the world. I can understand and support going for the booze.

Apparently, CR is dropping hints about Oliver and Felicity getting back together. I don't know how specific it is, I think everyone expects them to at one point.

Apparently she's telling people they're back together by the end of S4 which I think blows because, it's the same BS they pulled last year. I know the Olicity shippers will eat it up, just like last year. However, this really puts a damper on my enjoyment because it means nothing changes. Oliver doesn't learn or grow, Felicity doesn't grow, the relationship is just on a repeat loop. The show will just do something stupid to break them up again because they have to break them up/put the breaks on mid-season every season and then rush them together in x23 because they havehave to end the season together.

Kind of kills my enthusiasm.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[nksarmi]

I don't think it bothers me because at this point - they don't look like they aren't together anymore. I mean, they just look so much like a couple still that it's difficult for me to remember that they aren't. So they might as well be one again.

[HighHopes]

I am not a fan of them getting back together by the end of the season. They still haven't addressed or dealt with any of the reasons behind the break up. Yeah, Oliver knows lying sucks now-- but he learned that last season too and then he lied again this season. There's two episodes left- and next week's looks like it's All About Thea, and then we have the finale. So the reunion will probably take place in the last 3 minutes of the finale and we will again, for the third year in a row miss the important beginning stages of Oliver and Felicity being together as a couple. 

[Thundercatmary]

Previously I would have agreed it was rushed but after the last 2 eps I personally do see growth in both Oliver and Felicity. Things may not yet be perfect but things rarely are and they can continue working on things going forward.

Honestly the split never felt genuine to me and seemed like forced drama to separate them. If it was me I would have had Felicity just put a hold on the wedding while they figure things out not just flounce the relationship all together. 

[bijoux]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Apparently she's telling people they're back together by the end of S4 which I think blows because, it's the same BS they pulled last year. I know the Olicity shippers will eat it up, just like last year. However, this really puts a damper on my enjoyment because it means nothing changes. Oliver doesn't learn or grow, Felicity doesn't grow, the relationship is just on a repeat loop. The show will just do something stupid to break them up again because they have to break them up/put the breaks on mid-season every season and then rush them together in x23 because they havehave to end the season together.

Kind of kills my enthusiasm.

I think they're safe in that regard next season, since odds are that is likely when they will tie the know. Unless they just show up with wedding bands in the finale. Which I would not discount with this show.

[Lady Calypso]

I agree that it's too soon for Oliver and Felicity to get back together. Oliver has a long way to go still, but I do think that he's been slowly learning. He's acknowledged that he lied, he's given Diggle advice to not lie, and he's completely aware of the reasons why Felicity broke up with him. He's being more honest, a little more open, and I'm fairly impressed so far. It's not going to be an easy road for him, but I do think he'll get there. 

Someone pointed out on another site about something that I fear, however. I don't THINK it'll happen, but it could. They said that Felicity made the choice in saving millions of lives but still killing tens of thousands instead of trying to drop the nuke elsewhere. Personally, I think this is a load of bullshit and Felicity did what she had to in order to save millons. However, some people may look at it as an impossible choice she had to make, and they might compare it to Oliver's 'impossible choice' of lying to Felicity to he could see his son, which might lead to the reconciliation on Felicity's end. This is NOT ideal and not what I want at all, but it's something I could see them do (at least Guggie might try to) and that would suck, because Oliver is still at fault. 

[lemotomato]

I wouldn't worry about it just yet. "Be back together" could mean anything ranging from them just agreeing to give their relationship another try to proposal #4. (I prefer the former.)

We'd all like to get to see Oliver and Felicity work out their issues on-screen, but I've accepted that's something the show will never spend proper time on (see: all of season 3) and will always relegate it to summer hiatus when they're not busy defusing the disaster-of-the-season. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

Well, that's a scenario that would definitely make me resent their reconciliation. Ew. But no, I don't think this is how it will happen. Because Felicity's choice was about saving people. Oliver was not motivated by saving or protecting the kid.

[AyChihuahua]

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Well, that's a scenario that would definitely make me resent their reconciliation. Ew. But no, I don't think this is how it will happen. Because Felicity's choice was about saving people. Oliver was not motivated by saving or protecting the kid.

Oh, don't you remember, Thea and Oliver both agreed they couldn't tell Felicity because they had to keep the kid safe. You know, because Felicity's dangerous. Not so dangerous that he shouldn't marry her, but way too dangerous to know about his kid.

[Chaser]

I wanted Olicity back together when the grave was still a question mark because I wanted to enjoy fandom during hiatus and I didn't think I would be able to with Because Comics Shippers. Now, I'm good with them going with a slow burn. S2 dynamics with realized sexual tension sounds like fun. We never got to see them date because when S4 started they were basically married. It would be nice to see them wade back into the relationship and talk about their issues.

I would like them to end the season with them in a good place with each other. Not engaged, not even officially back together, just all signs pointing to the positive. But this ending is also a problem for me because of the hiatus. If they are in a good place and communicating again, I can see them getting back together in a few weeks not early S5.

Also, I would like to know exactly what CR said because it seems weird to me that she would just confirm they get back together by the end of the season. I'm wondering if she was just super positive about them and its being interpreted as they get back together.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Chaser

[tangerine95]

I hope they don't do that, it's not the same at all.And they've been way more clear since 4.15 that Oliver lied and that it was wrong so Idk that they would.I can see that Oliver realized what he's done and I do think he won't lie to her again but I hope we see him actively chose not to when given the chance. I think the way he handled Laurel dying with supporting others and accepting their support as well as the way he didn't push Felicity away and let her help him during that whole magic thing in 4.20 has started to show Felicity the change in him so I do think they laid the groundwork for them getting back together.Hopefully we'll get more, Oliver has been saying all the stuff he should be saying to Felicity to other people so they really need to let them talk about it to each other. So I don't have a problem with them getting back together. I hoped they would and didn't want it dragged out until next season tbh.

Edited May 13, 2016 by tangerine95

[apinknightmare]

I'll wait to see what happens, assuming the OP didn't misunderstand something in the convo. Given that Felicity relented on her stance that people couldn't change the ep before last, and Oliver counseled Diggle on not repeating his mistakes this ep, I'm guessing they will get back together by season's end. 

Ideally I'd like to see Oliver faced with a choice to lie or be honest, and have him choose to be honest to show Felicity that he's changed, but getting back together with him was always going to be a leap of faith on her part, so...choosing to take that leap if that doesn't happen wouldn't bother me, I suppose. Just because he decides not to lie at one point doesn't mean he won't go back on that at a later date (although please, show, don't do this).  

[AyChihuahua]

I got my definitive and, in Arrow-world, sufficiently lengthy, breakup, fully accessorized with a move out of the shared residence, so I can live with basically whatever. I guess I'd prefer not engaged again, but I do think they've done their Guggie version of Oliver learning, and I ended up being okay with Felicity "taking responsibility for her part in the breakup" (which was such an odd thing to say when it boiled down to Felicity taking back having said he can't change). As long as they don't pull this crap EVER EVER EVER AGAIN, I can deal.

[Guest]

I said before that I'd be okay with O/F not getting back together this season (as long as it wasn't ended for good) but I'm also fine with them getting back together too. Yes, I would have liked to see some more discussion about their issues and some more apologies, and I really wanted Oliver confronted with a situation where he had to lie but chose to tell Felicity instead, thus proving his growth, but this is Arrow. We were never going to get a well handled romantic relationship, especially after the baby mama crap. They just don't know how to write it.

It could be that there was some misunderstanding on this 'spoiler' anyway so I'll wait and see before I judge.

[wonderwall]

I'm not going to freak out until we see what actually happens.

I remember this board being super pissed about Oliver proposing in 409 what with Oliver still keeping the kid a secret but everyone seemed okay with it. So I'm going to have to wait before I get angry.

[dtissagirl]

For me it's not even whether I want them back together or not this season. If they don't get back together by the finale, it will be the single most surprising thing this show has ever done to me.

[Morrigan2575]

38 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm not going to freak out until we see what actually happens.

I remember this board being super pissed about Oliver proposing in 409 what with Oliver still keeping the kid a secret but everyone seemed okay with it. So I'm going to have to wait before I get angry.

I wasn't.  Also wasn't happy with Felicity giving up her life to run off with Oliver in 323.